Need Some Advices on A Ranger|Cleric

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MC Monk let one use Bows as implements for clerics and opens up Zuoken's Centering. Con 13 is for Hide Armor Spec at Epic

Frostcheese available though I'm not sure if I shall PP Morninglord and use Lightning Bow and Crown of Brilliance to take advantage of that Light Vul 10 with twin strike (since I have a feeling that Morning lord is going to be errataed).

Another concern is the power selection, Splitting Cobra or Attack on the Run is a problem...

On the other hand, is Greatbow worth it or maybe a Superior Crossbow (which eats two feats), or just a longbow would be OK?

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level 17
Githzerai, Ranger|Cleric, Battlefield Archer
Hybrid Ranger: Hybrid Ranger Fortitude
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Bow)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Holy Symbol)
Hybrid Talent: Ranger Fighting Style
Ranger Fighting Style: Archer Fighting Style (Hybrid)
Background: Cormyr (Wheloon) (Cormyr (Wheloon) Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 14, Dex 22, Int 11, Wis 22, Cha 12.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 11.


AC: 31 Fort: 30 Reflex: 31 Will: 31
HP: 114 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 28

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +22, Insight +21, Acrobatics +20, Perception +21, Thievery +20

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +8, Bluff +9, Diplomacy +9, Dungeoneering +14, Endurance +9, Heal +14, History +8, Intimidate +9, Nature +14, Religion +8, Streetwise +9, Athletics +15

FEATS
Level 1: Monastic Disciple
Level 2: Lethal Hunter
Level 4: Versatile Expertise
Level 6: Weapon Proficiency (Greatbow)
Level 8: Hybrid Talent
Level 10: Wintertouched
Level 11: Zuoken's Centering
Level 12: Imporved Defenses
Level 14: Lasting Frost
Level 16: Weapon Focus (Bow)

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Twin Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Sacred Flame
Monastic Disciple: Centered Flurry of Blows
Hybrid encounter 1: Prophetic Guidance
Hybrid daily 1: Skirmishing Stance
Hybrid utility 2: Invigorating Stride
Hybrid encounter 3: Disruptive Strike
Hybrid daily 5: Weapon of the Gods
Hybrid utility 6: Bastion of Health
Hybrid encounter 7: Biting Volley
Hybrid daily 9: Attacks on the Run
Hybrid utility 10: Mass Cure Light Wounds
Hybrid encounter 13: Remorse (replaces Biting Volley)
Hybrid daily 15: Confounding Arrows (replaces Skirmishing Stance)
Hybrid utility 16: Hallowed Ground
Hybrid encounter 17: Pounding Barrage (replaces Prophetic Guidance)

ITEMS
Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (heroic tier), Frost Greatbow +4, Piwafwi +4, Summoned Feyhide Armor +4, Boots of Quickness (heroic tier), Gloves of Ice (paragon tier), Bracers of Archery (heroic tier), Diamond Cincture (heroic tier), Diadem of Acuity (heroic tier), Symbol of Hope +1, Bag of Holding (heroic tier), Dice of Auspicious Fortune (paragon tier), Cloak of the Chirurgeon +1, Backlash Tattoo (heroic tier)


Please share your opinion, thank you!
MC Monk let one use Bows as implements for clerics and opens up Zuoken's Centering. Con 13 is for Hide Armor Spec at Epic



it's been noted (in the Essentials Update) that the Monk MC only gives you access to Ki Foci, but you can indeed use *it* with cleric powers (by the same updated rule), but you'll lose access to Frost.

(caveat: this rule/section doesn't appear in the actual compiled updates file, the compendium or the builder, but the coming "big update to bring things into line with essentials" update is likely to include it. so, you'll have a limited lifespan with your build, and it's likely non-functional as is now, given the update document)
Pretty solid - looks almost like a carbon copy of my R|C that I play in a game where two of our four fellows insisted on playing... Controllers...

Which level do you start ?
During early Heroic I strongly recommend HT (Healer's Mercy), has saved the day a lot of times.
Later you're probably better off with a PP other than BA, and instead getting Prime Shot. I personally like Darkstrider, because you have a high Wis anyway, with Frost beats Morninglord as well.

What's the problem with Spitting Cobra Stance ? I'd definately take that, and get MOG at L1 - it's worth keeping easily into Paragon anyway.
Also MCLW is not such a great util IMHO.

And stay with the Bows - they're absolutely fine.

Oh, and use Silvery Glow over Weapon Focus - it gives you +1 dmg, and you can actually use it with your few damaging Cleric powers.
Thanks. The group starts at lv 17 so I did not pay much attention to the feat order. On the other hand, I forgot to mention the party composition, a Cha psion, melee cleric, kensei fighter and this ranger. My initial attention is to imm the  BA's encounter when the Psion Shield Cracking (-6 AC), and then followed by the mutiattacks. And on AP per encounter I suppose also help the DPR. The rest of the team do not have enough surges (like ranging from 7-9) so that's the reason I'm keeping the MCLW.

With regarding Sptiting Cobra, I remember someone told me it's errataed into imm reaction so I did not pay much attention to it (though my CB says it's oa).

Speaking of Darkstrider, is there any way to keep the Ranger hidden for some rounds within an encounter? I vaguely remember (possibly wrongly) that once you make an attack you cannot hide again? Ahh, never mind, the extra damage only applies to the first round...

Silverglow do seem to be a better idea (at first I thought about the cold resistance issue but with gloves of ice and 5 cold vul +3 is still 1 point higher, if the cold resistance is 10)...

I don't seem to be able to quote...again...
Regarding the implement issue, most of this build relies on Ranger multiattacks. If MC monk no longer allows bows as implements for clerics, I could chage sacred flame to silver arrow, and keep the guidance power. In that case, all will be weapon attacks and there will be no implement attacks from the cleric side. In fact it could instead MC seeker with primal eye and be more warlock/shaman friendly...and maybe change the wis to 14, con 15 (Second skin) and race to elf, PP Sylan Archer .,
Well yes, SCS is an ImmRe. But that just means it was turned down from Insanely Power to Still Very Good.

Well first remember that you only become visible at the end of the action. And you just cannot hide with the same action - afterwards you're free to do what you like.
Then Darkstrider as a Util that lets you hide as minor, there's a similar Stealth Skill Power I recall. Adding that you get the bonus at the start of combat for free, and can easily hide with a move action as well, you should have enough options. And attack + move powers (AotR) make it even easier.
Of course there are other good PPs as well.

As general observation... your group does seem to be somewhat light on the offensive. No full Striker among four, the Leader also not that aggressive.
Now Ranger does still Hybrid somewhat well, and both the Fighter and the Psion can be constructed for single target damage... but it still looks more like a bandaid.
One silly question, does the extra damage apply only for the first round or...whole encounter?
The description states that "the enemies have not yet acted" so I assume it's only the first round?

We actually have a daggermaster though it sometimes cannot come to the game. The ranger is initially a thrall from the Psion and the DM allows it to be a pc when the daggermaster is not present...

On the other hand, both the melee cleric and fighter goes to kensei and would possibly go frost cheese with rain of blows...That is one of the reason I'm wondering if a radiant mafia would be...better than cold mafia...?
You get Wis+3 extra damage, if either of those two conditions is fullfilled:
1) target haven't acted
2) you're hidden

So, usualy combat goes like this:
R1: (std) you have high Init, so you automatically get it [(AP std) attack again] (move) hide in full cover
R2: (move) into partial cover (std) attack
R3: (minor) use Darkstrider util (std) attack (move) back into full cover
R4: (move) into partial cover (std) attack

Four easy rounds of extra damage. Boots with move-as-minor give you more attempts, so does Shrouding Gloom (Stealth Util 6), or any move+attack like AotR.
On a completely open field encounter (remember that your Utils work on almost any terrain feature) you simply use Spitting Cobra Stance, which is just the right encounter for it anyway. On those you'll likely get your Prime Shot (+1 hit / +5 dmg) as well.


Radiant has the advantage that it get's away with less investment for the other characters, but requires more for one (taking Morninglord), and it also requires focus fire from everybody. Where it's better is for AOE and certain Divine Classes.
But the biggest abuses have been cut, and the two remaining either hinge on a DM granted Boon (Pelor's) or require a special ED (Radiant One, needs high Int).
Errr, for the PP  "those enemies" are those who "have not acted during an encounter" so after the first round all of them would have acted so no extra damage could be applied to them. Or is there an FAQ sort of thing that says they apply throughout the encounter?
No, only for the first round (plus possibly surprise round). But where's the problem ?
But see it the other way round - usually you have to work for your bonus damage by hiding (easy enough, as explained above), but on the first round you (usually) get it for free.
Err, sorry, I was confused when you say "Four easy rounds of extra damage." So if it's only one/two rounds of extra damage, I guess BA would be almost the same (plus the wis number of quarry and +1 AB to all party members).
For radiant mafia I assume most of them only need to get pervasive light (not even a light sabre) and the ranger PP morninglord with crown of brilliance and lightning bow...

The errata for shared implements said that for multiclassing monks you only get proficiency with ki focuses with non-monk powers.  So a cleric/ranger mc monk could get a ki focus and apply its bonus to all its weapon and implement attacks.  Otherwise they would need to get some other weapliment through a feat or item like weapon of evil undone. 

Errr, I assume one could use a weapon he/she is proficient as a Ki Focus, too?
Err, sorry, I was confused when you say "Four easy rounds of extra damage." So if it's only one/two rounds of extra damage, I guess BA would be almost the same (plus the wis number of quarry and +1 AB to all party members).



For the third time - it also works when you are hidden !
Which is, as I explained, very easy if you make a smart pick or two.

And BA has the problem that you pay feat just to get it, when instead you could use HT to get +1 to hit (Prime Shot) and another feat for +5 dmg (Called Shot).
And while BA gives you multiple quarries, you can still trigger it only once / round (not that you should spread fire as Ranger).

For radiant mafia I assume most of them only need to get pervasive light (not even a light sabre) and the ranger PP morninglord with crown of brilliance and lightning bow...



Lightning Bow is +5 while Frost is only +3, the difference will show in play, particularly as you started with an only average Dex of 18 and might or might not get Prime Shot.
The Fighter needs MC Divine for it to work, a feat is doable but still not for free, and that means they must attack your target. Often the Fighter will instead shut down something else, and a Melee Cleric is just as likely to work with your Fighter as he will work with you.

PS: Moonbow Dedicate can be a working replacement for your Implement problem. Or, considering you have few Cleric attacks anyway, you just use a good +3 Implement - for example the one that gives your allies bonus damage on APs.
Ahh, my bad...skipped that "or"...
So you cannot use weapon as ki focus even if one MC monk? I guess I'll need change some powers then...
Errr, I assume one could use a weapon he/she is proficient as a Ki Focus, too?



Here is the text of the errata 

"Monastic Disciple (ki focus only)


This guideline does not apply to feats that allow a character to use a weapon as an implement."


A mc monk can use a weapon for any monk powers he knows, but can't use it as an implement for any non monk powers.  He can use a ki focus with a weapon for all powers.
Thanks...seems like I misread the description....

So how does the build look like now? Especially from the perspective of power/item selection. Definitely no implement attack power from the cleric side :3

Ferzth, level 17
Githzerai, Ranger|Cleric, Darkstrider
Hybrid Ranger: Hybrid Ranger Fortitude
Hybrid Talent: Ranger Combat Talent
Ranger Combat Talent: Prime Shot (Hybrid)
Background: Luskan (Luskan Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 9, Con 14, Dex 22, Int 11, Wis 22, Cha 12.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 8, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 11.


AC: 31 Fort: 30 Reflex: 30 Will: 31
HP: 114 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 28

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +23, Insight +21, Dungeoneering +19, Perception +21, Thievery +19

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +15, Arcana +8, Bluff +9, Diplomacy +9, Endurance +9, Heal +14, History +8, Intimidate +9, Nature +14, Religion +8, Streetwise +9, Athletics +15

FEATS
Level 1: Monastic Disciple
Level 2: Hybrid Talent
Level 4: Bow Expertise
Level 6: Weapon Proficiency (Greatbow)
Level 8: Silvery Glow
Level 10: Wintertouched
Level 11: Zuoken's Centering
Level 12: Improved Defenses
Level 14: Lasting Frost
Level 16: Called Shot

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Twin Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Silvery Arrow
Monastic Disciple: Centered Flurry of Blows
Hybrid encounter 1: Prophetic Guidance
Hybrid daily 1: Skirmishing Stance
Hybrid utility 2: Invigorating Stride
Hybrid encounter 3: Disruptive Strike
Hybrid daily 5: Weapon of the Gods
Hybrid utility 6: Bastion of Health
Hybrid encounter 7: Biting Volley
Hybrid daily 9: Attacks on the Run
Hybrid utility 10: Mass Cure Light Wounds
Hybrid encounter 13: Remorse (replaces Biting Volley)
Hybrid daily 15: Confounding Arrows (replaces Skirmishing Stance)
Hybrid utility 16: Shrouding Gloom
Hybrid encounter 17: Pounding Barrage (replaces Remorse)

ITEMS
Siberys Shard of Merciless Cold (heroic tier), Frost Greatbow +4, Piwafwi +4, Gloves of Ice (paragon tier), Bracers of Archery (heroic tier), Diamond Cincture (heroic tier), Diadem of Acuity (heroic tier), Symbol of Hope +1, Bag of Holding (heroic tier), Dice of Auspicious Fortune (paragon tier), Cloak of the Chirurgeon +1, Backlash Tattoo (heroic tier), Magic Feyhide Armor +4, Boots of Eagerness (heroic tier)
Looks solid !
-- I'd suggest a Symbol of Victory if nothing else.
-- I prefer Boots of the Fencing Master, particularly on a ranged character that rarely needs to start an encounter with two move actions.
-- No money for a Paragon Tier Shard ?
-- I never regretted taking a Cryptspawn Potion (or higher tier equivalents), particularly as it will cover the three most important types together with the Piwafwi (great choice, btw).
And spectacular advices, I would have never thought of Darkstrider (for my own dumbness) XD
Since both symbols are daily I guess I can afford to take both and equip the former one before boss fight (+5 sv is good), while the rest of the gp goes to boots of eagerness (another chance for hide and double/triple wis damage) Dice, Tattoo (RBA while bloodied, to make use of every actions) and the head item (+2 perception and insight, the DC is around 30 at this level so at least I need to beat it when taking 10), and the rest is less than 900g...

I guess the current task is to optimize Stealth then...though given the race is set and no place for Arcane familiar the only choice I got is skill focus...