And what was the reason that the two different card decks have the same back again?

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Each player has to have two facedown decks in front of himself and the GM has two decks. There can easily be 12 or more facedown decks on the table You are required to draw cards from one particular deck and yet both decks have the same back--you are just supposed to remember which is which? Any chance the next game might get playtested or maybe have a bit of game design 101 thrown in there for us little people?
Each player has to have two facedown decks in front of himself and the GM has two decks. There can easily be 12 or more facedown decks on the table You are required to draw cards from one particular deck and yet both decks have the same back--you are just supposed to remember which is which? Any chance the next game might get playtested or maybe have a bit of game design 101 thrown in there for us little people?



good luck with that man
I concur. I was actually baffled that the Omega Tech and Alpha Mutation cards had the same back. That's just sloppy.
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Each player has to have two facedown decks in front of himself and the GM has two decks. There can easily be 12 or more facedown decks on the table You are required to draw cards from one particular deck and yet both decks have the same back--you are just supposed to remember which is which? Any chance the next game might get playtested or maybe have a bit of game design 101 thrown in there for us little people?


Yeah, that's one of the things I don't like; I'm not quite sure why this decision was made. (I wonder if it's an economy of scale issue.)

We use green and orange card sleeves on our set, it helps a LOT.

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good luck with that man


What, are you still here?

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It's not like it'd've been hard to put a little alpha or omega on the back of each, right?  Well, maybe it would have been.  Hasbro clearly has WotC backed up against a cost-cutting wall, with a firing squad at the ready should they buy one too many paperclips. ;)

When I ran my playtest I had the GM decks on opposite sides of the battlemat, with "GM Alpha Mutation Deck" written in green wet-erase next to one and "GM Omega Tech Deck" written in blue next to the other.  We still got them confused a few times.

 

 

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I found the card backs to be annoying as well. I'm sure it's cheaper to print when all of the backs match one another, but as far as ease of play goes the similar backs simply don't make sense. It's something that would have been a quick-fix when the game was under development, but is a royal pain now that it's been publilshed. Frown

Still, gotta love my GW!

Marv (Finarvyn) Master of Mutants (MA and GW) Playing 5E D&D and liking it! OD&D player since 1975

Yeah, I may go ahead and use some sleeves to separate the decks. It IS pretty annoying to have to keep track of which deck is which.
i also found it rather annoying, but i was already copying origin pages from the book for handouts for my players i didn't mind throwing different colored sleeves on each deck to differentiate them, though i'm a TCG player and i also like to print power cards from the character builder and sleeve them so i happened to have them available already.  I do like having sleeves on cards like that though, i feel i would have added the sleeves even if the cards had unique backs to them.  I've even added sleeves to the castle ravenloft power cards as well

that being said, I definitely feel they rushed those cards through production and totally shoulda thought that design aspect through better
Okay, so someone tell me about these card sleeves (since I've never played a CCG in my life). I'm guessing that they are an inexpensive (fingers crossed) plastic thingie where you slide in your cards so they don't get Cheeto stains, etc, upon them.

Where do you buy them?
Roughly how much do they cost?
How do you get ones with different colors?

Marv (Finarvyn) Master of Mutants (MA and GW) Playing 5E D&D and liking it! OD&D player since 1975

Okay, so someone tell me about these card sleeves (since I've never played a CCG in my life). I'm guessing that they are an inexpensive (fingers crossed) plastic thingie where you slide in your cards so they don't get Cheeto stains, etc, upon them.

Where do you buy them?
Roughly how much do they cost?
How do you get ones with different colors?



You can buy them anywhere CCGs are sold.
It depends, the cheapest I've found are like 5 bucks up to about 10, quality and wow factor may vary
Usualy different color boxes have different color sleeves.
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Roughly how much do they cost?

It depends, the cheapest I've found are like 5 bucks up to about 10, quality and wow factor may vary



$5 to $10 per box? How many sleeves come to a box?

Marv (Finarvyn) Master of Mutants (MA and GW) Playing 5E D&D and liking it! OD&D player since 1975

Sleeves come in a WIDE variety.

Usually they come either 50, 60 or 100 per pack.
Price can vary significantly.
The cheapest sleeves are called penny sleeves, and are usually less than a buck per 100 (hence the name). However, they're clear on both sides and that won't help in this case.

The basic ones are Ultra Pro with a solid colored back. These are usually $3 for 50.
For a bit more, you can have art on the back instead of a color
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My local game shop has packs of 50 sleeves with a solid color backing on them for about 3-4 bucks, and you can get fancier ones with graphics printed on the backs for a couple bucks more.

Be careful to buy just the standard size ones (it'll say right on the package), most stores also sell yugioh sized sleeves right next to them and they are smaller and normal cards won't fit in them. 
We use green and orange card sleeves on our set, it helps a LOT.



Same color choices here. It's a natural for GW and looks great!
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Sleeves come in a WIDE variety.

Usually they come either 50, 60 or 100 per pack.
Price can vary significantly.
The cheapest sleeves are called penny sleeves, and are usually less than a buck per 100 (hence the name). However, they're clear on both sides and that won't help in this case.

The basic ones are Ultra Pro with a solid colored back. These are usually $3 for 50.
For a bit more, you can have art on the back instead of a color



Also Penny Sleeves have a tendancy to rip easyily in my experience, so I never recomend them.

I think i'm used to  the 100 pack Ultra Pro (but the store I buy from is geared to MtG so it makes sense they don't sell 50 sleeve packs), cause i've never paid less than 5 for them that I recall.
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Thanks for all of the great advice! Next time I visit a card or game store, a couple of packs of sleeves (green and orange) are on my list!

Marv (Finarvyn) Master of Mutants (MA and GW) Playing 5E D&D and liking it! OD&D player since 1975

I went to game day today and everyone said... "why do these cards have the same back"

It seemed no more than just a little bit of an oversight...i am sure WoTC will have a new printing of "white border" cards you can buy in random packs for 4 bucks each with different backs available for a limited time only

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Yep, everyone at Game Day noticed the problem.  For my DM deck, I again wrote next to the cards what they were.  But, only one player drew from the DM deck one time, the whole game.  :shrug:

 

 

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OMG THE BACKS ARE THE SAME WOTC DID THIS ON PURPOSE JUST SO THEY CAN CHARGE US MORE THEY ARE GOING TO STEAL OUR MONEY GREEDY EVIL CORPERATION!!!!11!!!

I totally agree that this is a bit annoying, but... really?
EVERY DAY IS HORRIBLE POST DAY ON THE D&D FORUMS. Everything makes me ANGRY (ESPECIALLY you, reader)
OMG THE BACKS ARE THE SAME WOTC DID THIS ON PURPOSE JUST SO THEY CAN CHARGE US MORE THEY ARE GOING TO STEAL OUR MONEY GREEDY EVIL CORPERATION!!!!11!!!

I totally agree that this is a bit annoying, but... really?



dude, you should try decaf...it tastes just as good...really...
Everything I post is an opinion, any perceptions you have to the contrary are not my problem. The Killer Rabbit of Caerbannog Initiative Tracker for WP7 RPG Dice Calculator for WP7
OMG THE BACKS ARE THE SAME WOTC DID THIS ON PURPOSE JUST SO THEY CAN CHARGE US MORE THEY ARE GOING TO STEAL OUR MONEY GREEDY EVIL CORPERATION!!!!11!!!

I totally agree that this is a bit annoying, but... really?



dude, you should try decaf...it tastes just as good...really...



Oh boy, being condescending and dismissive! I guess you win then, internet cool guy. ;D

Really, when people start honestly suggesting that WotC made the two types of cards have the same backing because it's all their evil scheme to force you to buy overpriced care protectors, it's time for people to step back for a moment.
EVERY DAY IS HORRIBLE POST DAY ON THE D&D FORUMS. Everything makes me ANGRY (ESPECIALLY you, reader)
OMG THE BACKS ARE THE SAME WOTC DID THIS ON PURPOSE JUST SO THEY CAN CHARGE US MORE THEY ARE GOING TO STEAL OUR MONEY GREEDY EVIL CORPERATION!!!!11!!!

I totally agree that this is a bit annoying, but... really?



dude, you should try decaf...it tastes just as good...really...



Oh boy, being condescending and dismissive! I guess you win then, internet cool guy. ;D

Really, when people start honestly suggesting that WotC made the two types of cards have the same backing because it's all their evil scheme to force you to buy overpriced care protectors, it's time for people to step back for a moment.

I thought you where refering to my specific post,
i guess i should have put /sarcasm and faces in it...i thought i was clearly being humourus... sorry you took it seriously.
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Really, when people start honestly suggesting that WotC made the two types of cards have the same backing because it's all their evil scheme to force you to buy overpriced care protectors, it's time for people to step back for a moment.


That's not what people said. They said WotC went the quick and easy route and didn't bother with different backs. It is assumed it was slightly cheaper to do so. No one suggested they did it to sell card protectors.

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I jokingly suggested they did but you know, text jocking on internet never comes across just right.

edit: or joking. I don't know what jocking is, but don't do it in text, never comes across right. 
*edit*
I totally agree that this is a bit annoying, but... really?

We are saying that the people making our games should have a certain level of competence, not that they are evil.

As far as greedy... nobody is saying that they are not. They have a right to make money. They would make more with good product.
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Short answer: Cost

Long answer: The project manager dropped the ball, just like they did with the box size, character sheets, and rule book.

Game: Kudos for the most part. It's fun and a excellent gateway to 4e D&D as intended 

Packaging: Less than optimal. In fact rather piss poor when you compare to other similar products.

Short answer: Cost

Long answer: The project manager dropped the ball, just like they did with the box size, character sheets, and rule book.

Game: Kudos for the most part. It's fun and a excellent gateway to 4e D&D as intended 

Packaging: Less than optimal. In fact rather piss poor when you compare to other similar products.





That basically sums up everything. If the box was just a smidge bigger even it woulda been nice to be able to put some standard size paper in it without having to fold it  

Still we loves it. 
Short answer: Cost

Long answer: The project manager dropped the ball, just like they did with the box size, character sheets, and rule book.

I suspect the digest-size softbound rulebook is a broader directive, since D&D in general was going to that.

 

 

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Short answer: Cost

Long answer: The project manager dropped the ball, just like they did with the box size, character sheets, and rule book.

Game: Kudos for the most part. It's fun and a excellent gateway to 4e D&D as intended 

Packaging: Less than optimal. In fact rather piss poor when you compare to other similar products.





I totally disagree. I mean, the card back thing is kinda stupid, they shoulda fixed that. But what was wrong with the sheets & rule book? I love the form factor on both, as well as the box. I thought I was going to get some floppy 8 1/2 x 11 rulebook. The digest-sized book was a pleasant surprise.
I think the main issue is that you can't store ENGLISH standard paper (8 1/2x 11) in the extra space in the box.  Once the USA embraces the A4 standard paper size this won't be as much of a problem :D.

Short answer: Cost

Long answer: The project manager dropped the ball, just like they did with the box size, character sheets, and rule book.

Game: Kudos for the most part. It's fun and a excellent gateway to 4e D&D as intended 

Packaging: Less than optimal. In fact rather piss poor when you compare to other similar products.





I totally disagree. I mean, the card back thing is kinda stupid, they shoulda fixed that. But what was wrong with the sheets & rule book? I love the form factor on both, as well as the box. I thought I was going to get some floppy 8 1/2 x 11 rulebook. The digest-sized book was a pleasant surprise.



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I think the main issue is that you can't store ENGLISH standard paper (8 1/2x 11) in the extra space in the box.  Once the USA embraces the A4 standard paper size this won't be as much of a problem :D.

You know, I noticed that, and it is kind of a pain.

As far as the card protectors go, they're just a good idea in general. And I took others' suggestions and got green and orange sleeves. They look sweet.

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I think the main issue is that you can't store ENGLISH standard paper (8 1/2x 11) in the extra space in the box.  Once the USA embraces the A4 standard paper size this won't be as much of a problem :D.



Umm, A4 paper is 8.26 by 11.7 inches.
A shade narrower, but even LONGER.

A4 fits in the box even worse than US letter size paper.

What's your point?
AlexandraErin: If last season was any indication, I think Encounters is pretty much the elemental opposite of "organized" play!
I think the main issue is that you can't store ENGLISH standard paper (8 1/2x 11) in the extra space in the box.  Once the USA embraces the A4 standard paper size this won't be as much of a problem :D.



Umm, A4 paper is 8.26 by 11.7 inches.
A shade narrower, but even LONGER.

A4 fits in the box even worse than US letter size paper.

What's your point?


Maybe they were able to fit the A4 in the box when put in sideways? heee
But what was wrong with the sheets & rule book?



My issue with the sheets is there just isn't enough space to write all the power information, so the players have to scuffle over (likely) one book to verify what they can do.

The rule book though I do love: I wish the Essentials books took some lessons from it, as I find them to thick for comfort in digest scale and they have layouts that spread individual things over multiple pages to often. 
Penny sleeves (cheap, all clear ones) will work fine for one of the two decks.  I bought a metallic purple set of sleeves for the other deck.
My issue with the sheets is there just isn't enough space to write all the power information, so the players have to scuffle over (likely) one book to verify what they can do.



Pretty much sums up that pont.  While I applaud the effort of a simplified, helpful character sheet, it's actual usefulness for play is less than ideal.  A better choice would have been to provide a filled out sample of a real character sheet, and provide those rather than a few, fairly useless back to back half-sheets.

Rulebook: I don't like the layout. There is pleny of wasted space on pages. Personally, I think they made it smaller for two reasons;

1. To fit in the box
2. To mask how little information it actually contains.

I don't have an issue with less information per se, as this is a gateway product and the rules need to be somewhat lighter.  However, I would have prefered a full size, but thinner rule blook. They could have then put in a full size, useful character sheet similar to that found in the back of the 4e PHB.

Box choice: They used a boardgame style rather than rpg style. Why? I figure because Castle Ravenloft and the upcoming Wrath of Ashardalon were packaged that way. It wouldn't surpise me if the PM for all three was the same. Everything about the packaging screams to me of someone more used to packaging a boardgame rather than a rpg. The oversight of the cardbacks makes more sense when looked at it ths way, at least to me.  If GW was a boardgame, I wouldn't have such an issue with the packaging and contents, but it's not and I do.  

Ok, rant over. Didn't mean to, but the more I thought about it, the more it irked me. Having spent nearly ten years working in the industry and knowing how game manufacturers operate and how certain decisions get made, I can be rather opinionated when it comes to design choices.

Anyhow, end of the day, mine is just one opinion in this sea we call the interweb. Besides, it doesn't mean the game is any less fun.

2. To mask how little information it actually contains.



I don't know man, that's awfully conspiracy-theory-ish of you.

Anyway, why doesn't someone from WOTC come over and tell us? I'm not usually on any WOTC boards; do any of them comment in the forums?
Only every now and then. Its fairly rare.