You there PaoloM?

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We're all here still waiting for that information... Haven't heard anything and it's now the end of ANOTHER week.
We're all here still waiting for that information... Haven't heard anything and it's now the end of ANOTHER week.



Yep. Was debating starting a thread like this myself but you got here first.

Am now at the stage where I am contemplating e-mailing Customer Service to try and extricate myself from my remaining subscription. This is pretty much the nuclear option as after that I'll have no bargaining power left so am holding off at the moment but my finger's hovering over the button. There are also no guarantees I would get a refund for my remaining months but I'm just about willing to try.

Had enough of this $%&£.
I am sure WOTC will give out some info "soon".
I am sure WOTC will give out some info "soon".



Starting to really dislike that word.
I am sure WOTC will give out some info "soon".



Starting to really dislike that word.




If you're only "starting" to dislike that word, you are far more patient than many of the rest of us.Tongue out
I am sure WOTC will give out some info "soon".



Starting to really dislike that word.




If you're only "starting" to dislike that word, you are far more patient than many of the rest of us.



Yeah, maybe I was being too gentle. I hate that word Laughing.
I am sure WOTC will give out some info "soon".



Starting to really dislike that word.



If you're only "starting" to dislike that word, you are far more patient than many of the rest of us.Tongue out


You're not going to dislike that word soon?
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Do you folks mind if I offer a word of caution?

I'm by no means any sort of authority on human behavior, but I've seen threads like this pop up before.  When they happen, the person who has offered to try and get us information ends up getting dumped on.  I'd really hate to see that happen again, so I'm asking you, as a personal favor, to please avoid directing your irritation about the lack of information towards Paolo.  Asking for an update on his progress is perfectly fine by me.  I just don't want to see one of us chop his head off in gratitude for him sticking his neck out.

Thank you.
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Then how about getting us some of the information we were told was coming "soon" FOUR FREAKING MONTHS AGO.

Honestly, this is getting really fraking stupid.
Do you folks mind if I offer a word of caution?

I'm by no means any sort of authority on human behavior, but I've seen threads like this pop up before.  When they happen, the person who has offered to try and get us information ends up getting dumped on.  I'd really hate to see that happen again, so I'm asking you, as a personal favor, to please avoid directing your irritation about the lack of information towards Paolo.  Asking for an update on his progress is perfectly fine by me.  I just don't want to see one of us chop his head off in gratitude for him sticking his neck out.

Thank you.



Thanks AL. Personally, I didn't see this as directing irritation at Paolo himself but rather at those who are refusing to release any information to us.

We have been repeatedly promised information "soon" (there's that lovely word again) and had nothing. Last week, we were told it might be this week and now this week has come and gone. How long are we supposed to wait?
@Medriev - I don't see anything wrong with this thread either.  My tale/request is simply a precaution, because of similar threads I've witnessed in the past.

Carry on.
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Point taken.

Thanks.
Then how about getting us some of the information we were told was coming "soon" FOUR FREAKING MONTHS AGO.

Honestly, this is getting really fraking stupid.



Sijal, I understand how annoyed you are.  Believe me, I am not nearly as happy as I seem, but AL especially doesn't deserve the post above.  Paolo doesn't really either.  I know its hard, but at least direct your anger to parties resonsible, if you like I can dig out the CEO of WotC's name, I bet we can (together) figure out his email address at wotc, and start spamming him with demands for more information.  Attacking the underlings when thy have stated that its someone higher up does no good, and only cause hurt feelings and annoyed people who were trying to do good by us.
I have for the past two week, every day sent a letter to CS stating my dissatisfaction. All I ever recieve are stamped out form letters.

I have also just this week started calling CS. All I ever get there is "We are aware of the problem"

So if they are aware, and they are calling it a problem, why are they not moving to rectify the problem? That to me tells me they don't care about the problem.

If You do get ahold of anyone higher up that I can directly email, I would love it. I can then CC them on all my mails.
Do you folks mind if I offer a word of caution?

I'm by no means any sort of authority on human behavior, but I've seen threads like this pop up before.  When they happen, the person who has offered to try and get us information ends up getting dumped on.  I'd really hate to see that happen again, so I'm asking you, as a personal favor, to please avoid directing your irritation about the lack of information towards Paolo.  Asking for an update on his progress is perfectly fine by me.  I just don't want to see one of us chop his head off in gratitude for him sticking his neck out.

Thank you.



Wait. You mean that WotC has policies in place that states that he would get in serious trouble for providing appropriate updates?

And no one there can (I presume by the corporate culture) question this logic in so far as it's treatments of customers?

If both of these are the case, then Wizards should reconsider their take on 'customer service'. The more I hear about this company, the more I'm glad I never applied to work there. 
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Do you folks mind if I offer a word of caution?

I'm by no means any sort of authority on human behavior, but I've seen threads like this pop up before.  When they happen, the person who has offered to try and get us information ends up getting dumped on.  I'd really hate to see that happen again, so I'm asking you, as a personal favor, to please avoid directing your irritation about the lack of information towards Paolo.  Asking for an update on his progress is perfectly fine by me.  I just don't want to see one of us chop his head off in gratitude for him sticking his neck out.

Thank you.



Wait. You mean that WotC has policies in place that states that he would get in serious trouble for providing appropriate updates?

And no one there can (I presume by the corporate culture) question this logic in so far as it's treatments of customers?

If both of these are the case, then Wizards should reconsider their take on 'customer service'. The more I hear about this company, the more I'm glad I never applied to work there. 


Except that this is Hasbro's policy, not WotC. As a publically traded company, Hasbro has a right and a duty to their shareholders to make sure that the communications are controlled and no leaks or financially damaging information are ever released.

That said, WotC's policy was very different and we're trying to get back to that level of openness.


I'm not giving any date or timeframe (well, "soon" ), but I can say pretty much for certain that this situation will change.


Now, let me go back flogging my team.

Paolo Marcucci "Building better worlds"
I recommend the use of an olive loaf for the flogging.  Thanks Paolo.  Smile
…but I can say pretty much for certain that this situation will change.

Now, let me go back flogging my team.



You have the Cathak Official Nod Of Hesitant But Positive Approval (CONOHBPA).
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I said I don't want to see one of us chop his head off.  Meaning I don't want a community member to be disrespectful towards him.  I have no idea what policies WotC has in place.
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Do you folks mind if I offer a word of caution?

I'm by no means any sort of authority on human behavior, but I've seen threads like this pop up before.  When they happen, the person who has offered to try and get us information ends up getting dumped on.  I'd really hate to see that happen again, so I'm asking you, as a personal favor, to please avoid directing your irritation about the lack of information towards Paolo.  Asking for an update on his progress is perfectly fine by me.  I just don't want to see one of us chop his head off in gratitude for him sticking his neck out.

Thank you.



Wait. You mean that WotC has policies in place that states that he would get in serious trouble for providing appropriate updates?

And no one there can (I presume by the corporate culture) question this logic in so far as it's treatments of customers?

If both of these are the case, then Wizards should reconsider their take on 'customer service'. The more I hear about this company, the more I'm glad I never applied to work there. 


Except that this is Hasbro's policy, not WotC. As a publically traded company, Hasbro has a right and a duty to their shareholders to make sure that the communications are controlled and no leaks or financially damaging information are ever released.

That said, WotC's policy was very different and we're trying to get back to that level of openness.


I'm not giving any date or timeframe (well, "soon" ), but I can say pretty much for certain that this situation will change.


Now, let me go back flogging my team.


You're back! It's good to see you. It's not good to see the word "soon" in your post, but it's good that you're keeping an eye on things. 

I don't know about anybody else, but I feel ever so slightly better about the whole situation (not great, but still).

Keep in touch Paulo. We do hope that whatever you're working on is worth the mess of the last couple of months (if you were to express the entirely subjective opinion that you believed it was, I don't think that would count as a leak. Just saying). 
Just my opinion of course. You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
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I'm not giving any date or timeframe (well, "soon" ), but I can say pretty much for certain that this situation will change.



You are no longer allowed to use that word... It is a forbidden word.

And before another round of speculations, etc....

What I meant by "financially damaging information" was in the context of stuff like insider trading or company secrets being leaked. I did not mean to infer that there are troubles around here...

(cue the new round of speculations )
Paolo Marcucci "Building better worlds"
Do you folks mind if I offer a word of caution?

I'm by no means any sort of authority on human behavior, but I've seen threads like this pop up before.  When they happen, the person who has offered to try and get us information ends up getting dumped on.  I'd really hate to see that happen again, so I'm asking you, as a personal favor, to please avoid directing your irritation about the lack of information towards Paolo.  Asking for an update on his progress is perfectly fine by me.  I just don't want to see one of us chop his head off in gratitude for him sticking his neck out.

Thank you.



I think that this is a very appropriate reminder to remain civil on the boards. It's all too easy to express frustration with a company on a forum in such a way that it impales a guy who is honestly just trying to do a good job. Anyone who has worked a call-center or other service oriented job knows what I'm talking about, and it can be even worse on the boards.

Having said that, my patience with WotC is growing thin. The lack of communication from anyone at WotC regarding CB/MB updates and the mysterious web-based tool(s) is startling in this day and age, and--though I have no love for Pathfinder or how the edition wars played out on their site--WotC could stand to take a page from Paizo's communications playbook. Yes, Paizo is a smaller company, but I see no reason why WotC can't be just as transparent. Or, half as transparent for that matter. Okay, so Hasbro has some whacked communications policies that are muzzling WotC. But isn't what's going on here with regards to the news about CB updates and obtuse references to web tools more about WotC than Hasbro?

I'm by no means any sort of authority on corporate behavior, but I am seeing more and more frustration being expressed on these forums. I'm also seeing a lack of acknowledgement on the part of Wizards that does nothing but exacerbate the problem. It seems that, in an effort to avoid another instance of over-promising and under-delivering on DDi tools, WotC isn't saying anything or, even worse in some ways, offering crumbs of information to customers who clearly want more.

Personally, I would have prefered if Wizards had just told me when Darksun and Essentials was being added to the CB and kept any reference to web-based tools to themselves. Announce it when the thing is ready to release, don't allude to it, get everyone riled, and then go mum.

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I'm not giving any date or timeframe (well, "soon" ), but I can say pretty much for certain that this situation will change.



You are no longer allowed to use that word... It is a forbidden word.




Sijal some contacts at Hasbro that might make a difference
Brian Goldner (CEO) Bgoldner@hasbro.com

Seriously, well maybe anyway if his email is like other peoples. 

Except that this is Hasbro's policy, not WotC. As a publically traded company, Hasbro has a right and a duty to their shareholders to make sure that the communications are controlled and no leaks or financially damaging information are ever released.


That said, WotC's policy was very different and we're trying to get back to that level of openness.


I'm not giving any date or timeframe (well, "soon" ), but I can say pretty much for certain that this situation will change.


Now, let me go back flogging my team.




Hasbro and WotC are the same entity in this case. As much as I'd like to separate the two, it is impossible as one company is owned by another and is clearly dictating policies with a heavy hand. Furthermore, actions by WotC affect Hasbro shareholders, by your own logic. The two are interchangable. WotC may have been different in the past, but until a change comes around again to make that true, there's little difference in the companies, aside from being a 'branch'.

As far as 'financially damaging information': Hasn't anyone within the company gone up and said 'Hey. People are pulling away because of what we're doing. We're losing revenue.' At what point is the company reputation damaged beyond repair?

I'm not trying to say -you- are the cause. Rather, I'm saying.. look at the forums and count the number of positive posts you see about recent changes. This is the face of Hasbro's policies and choices. -If- these views are inaccurate, maybe it's time the company addresses it, instead of pretending that the public face is still the same.

Khor - there is one part of WotC that even makes a note on Hasbro's bottomline: Magic.
If its not magic, they barely even notice it.  Even if the 41K DDI members are present monthly subscribers, its a litteral drop of water in the revenue of Hasbro.

Believe me when I say for certain that the corporate bigwigs of Hasbro at best know there is a ruckus about DnD, not the exact financials of it, as I am not even sure DND makes an impact on Wizard's bottomline. 
I'm by no means any sort of authority on corporate behavior, but I am seeing more and more frustration being expressed on these forums. I'm also seeing a lack of acknowledgement on the part of Wizards that does nothing but exacerbate the problem. It seems that, in an effort to avoid another instance of over-promising and under-delivering on DDi tools, WotC isn't saying anything or, even worse in some ways, offering crumbs of information to customers who clearly want more.

I'm curious about the acknowledgement part.  They've acknowledged that there is a problem.  At this point, they are avoiding coming to the forums and posting 'We're sorry. We'll have more information soon' because that just draws the ire of some folks.  Do you have a suggestion for what kind of further acknowledgement would be constructive, and avoid irritating people with a non-informative post?
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. . .  Even if the 41K DDI members are present monthly subscribers, its a litteral drop of water in the revenue of Hasbro.

Believe me when I say for certain that the corporate bigwigs of Hasbro at best know there is a ruckus about DnD, not the exact financials of it, as I am not even sure DND makes an impact on Wizard's bottomline. 



True. And there are, what, eight people on this forum currently? Perhaps twice or three times as many are expressing the same frustration that I am on this or other forums? Given that context, I should be greatful that Paolo and AsmodeusL even read these posts, let alone respond to them. Depressing but true.

I kind of wonder, then, if D&D is just kind of a loss leader for Hasbro. Or WotC for that matter.

I'm by no means any sort of authority on corporate behavior, but I am seeing more and more frustration being expressed on these forums. I'm also seeing a lack of acknowledgement on the part of Wizards that does nothing but exacerbate the problem. It seems that, in an effort to avoid another instance of over-promising and under-delivering on DDi tools, WotC isn't saying anything or, even worse in some ways, offering crumbs of information to customers who clearly want more.

I'm curious about the acknowledgement part.  They've acknowledged that there is a problem.  At this point, they are avoiding coming to the forums and posting 'We're sorry. We'll have more information soon' because that just draws the ire of some folks.  Do you have a suggestion for what kind of further acknowledgement would be constructive, and avoid irritating people with a non-informative post?



Maybe I'm not seeing the forums where they've acknowledged the problem. I've seen you and mudbunny (spelling?) acknowledge problems and then be in the unenviable position of being able to offer nothing in terms of solid information. Other than that, I've seen Paolo acknowledge that Hasbro is whacked and Trevor make an announcement about how Psionic Power was included in the last CB update. The omission of any reference to DS or Essentials was deafening.

Okay, so saying "they're coming soon" ticks people off. But is the DDi team over there so overworked with so many different projects that no one has an ability to announce a deadline and keep it? If so, say so. Hasbro is really keeping WotC from saying, "Hey folks, you'll get DS and Essentials in CB. We're so overwhelmed that we don't want to set a deadline we can't keep, but you'll get' em. (So quit yer whinin'!)"??? Okay, so maybe not the whining part. We're not even hearing that, which, when combined with some vague mention of web tools, leads folks to believe that the continued existence/development/support of the CB is now in question. Am I making sense?

The forum you started about the web-based tools that had the 33 questions listed on it is another unsettling example. What happened there? Did those questions get looked at? Did WotC tell you to shove it? There's nothing there to indicate that the thread served any actual purpose other than letting people somehow feel that they were being heard by WotC when they were only being heard by you. No offense, but I was hoping (as I'm sure you were) to get some of the questions answered by now. Two of them? One?
It might be truth be told.  I know Hasbro gives its subcompanies some latitude so long as their quarterly statements are in the black and not the red.  DnD's revenues could be under its costs by a small margin and not even be noticed by Hasbro.  Or it could be the deal with Atari keeps DnD as a brand name in the black (though Infrogames has maybe two more quarters until insolvency hits)
Do you have a suggestion for what kind of further acknowledgement would be constructive, and avoid irritating people with a non-informative post?


*raises hand*

I have some.
  • Tell what measures have been taken to prevent similar events in the future. No details needed, only an outline of what is done.

  • Tell what went wrong, also no intimate details needed, only a rough outline as to make people aware of the complexity WotC have to deal with.

  • Acknowledge that any of our letters (with bugs, comments, complaints) to Customer Service has actually reached Paulo's studio and/or higher tier folks.

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Personally I'd like a better idea of whether "soon" is being measured in days, weeks, months or years. I'd also like an idea of what is coming "soon", but apparently the policy is to announce only when finished lest another Game Table-esque fiasco be added to the record (not a terrible idea in isolation).

Knowing something is coming in a set time frame is exciting. Knowing a thing is coming but not knowing when is exciting (provided it can be anticipated to come out. For instance I'm sure Arkham City will turn up some time next year, but there are some things that may never see the light of day). Knowing that an unknown thing will be released at an unknown time is frustrating. Especially when you've already paid for it.
Just my opinion of course. You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
Personally I'd like a better idea of whether "soon" is being measured in days, weeks, months or years. I'd also like an idea of what is coming "soon", but apparently the policy is to announce only when finished lest another Game Table-esque fiasco be added to the record (not a terrible idea in isolation).


FWIW: The Soon stuff isn't just WotC all of Hasbro has a very tight lipped attitude about upcoming releases (for instance the schedule for Hub was next to impossible to find in the hours leading to its launch)...so I am not positive its tied into the Gametable stuff.
@Cathak: I can't tell you that until I can tell you that Really, it's frustrating for you as it is for me. Regarding feedback going up the chain, we have regular meetings with the kind CS folks. Everyone knows that there is a problem, and we have to realize that it takes time to fix things.

@Opti: I (and all my studio, as they read the forums regularly) am very well aware of the situation. We're trying to take steps to make it better, but it's going to be a process.
Paolo Marcucci "Building better worlds"
I suppose I'm only really noticing it here as the only other thing I keep up with that Hasbro does is Magic (more WotC), where you have a pretty good idea of when things are happening and what's coming in the future (especially as they hype everything to high heaven in the few weeks leading up to release). Though they aren't immune to making unpopular decisions such as the "FNM must be on Friday" furore (in some places at least. I know that it will cause great disruption at my LGS, and many others in my country). Frankly I have no idea what part of the company is responsible for that. Probably Organised Play.

@Paulo It's appreciated. 
Just my opinion of course. You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
As someone who gripes more than most of late, I would like to tell you I appreciate your efforts, Paolo.  I get the impression that you are quite sincere in your desire to 'turn a corner' on the whole communication thing.

I just find it damned frustrating that your higher ups seem to thwart said efforts at every turn.
Thank you Paolo.
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@AsmodeusL: I edited my last post on page 3 to answer your question, and now we're on page 4! People type fast. Also, a thank you to Paolo from me as well. Thanks!
I very much prefer these "We're working on it" posts to silence. We may not get much new information out of them, but we do at least get that people haven't stopped working on it since the last "We're working on it" post. 

Thanks for the efforts Paolo. 
Just my opinion of course. You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
Thanks Paolo. More I read about all this it makes me think Hasbro has no idea what damage they are causing by forcing WOTC to be silent on DDi. I think Hasbro thinks the DnD brand is a line of toys and not a tabletop RPG, totally different things.
Thanks Paolo. More I read about all this it makes me think Hasbro has no idea what damage they are causing by forcing WOTC to be silent on DDi. I think Hasbro thinks the DnD brand is a line of toys and not a tabletop RPG, totally different things.



I actually think you are not far off (much as it might pain me to say so) I think they view DnD as a type of board game.
Thanks Paolo. More I read about all this it makes me think Hasbro has no idea what damage they are causing by forcing WOTC to be silent on DDi. I think Hasbro thinks the DnD brand is a line of toys and not a tabletop RPG, totally different things.



I actually think you are not far off (much as it might pain me to say so) I think they view DnD as a type of board game.

One of my housemates last year thought of D&D as a computer game.

Yes, you read that right.

She was of the belief that a game was either a computer game or a board game and that D&D had more in common with computer games. The idea that games were more diverse than this did not seem to make sense to her.

That or she was intentionally trying to annoy me. 
Just my opinion of course. You are Red/Blue!
You are Red/Blue!
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.