An Updated Supercharger Thread

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First:  Credit to all those before who worked on the supercharger chassis.  Also, if anyone who has a supercharger thread (or even LDB, or anyone else, with their fighter handbooks) thinks that I am stepping too much on their toes, let me know and I'll move this thread to a better location.

Second:  This is only a look at what the supercharger can achieve at the moment.  In the DPR Kings 2 thread I tossed up a bizarre Warlock charger who reaches 134 DPR; but I wanted to do something a little more playable.  The following Real Supercharger can achieve 160 DPR.

Third:  This is definitely a work in progress, as the feat order is non-existent, my lower level snap shots aren't around, and the defences will definitely have to be increased at the cost of some damage.  But we'll show you the pure offensive version first just as a starting point.


The Purely Offensive At-Will Supercharger (160 DPR): 
Warforged Two Handed Talent Fighter(Barbarian)/Warforged Juggernaut/Reincarnate Champion (Dragonborn/Storm Genasi)
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Str 18->30, Con 13->20, Dex 13->18, Int 8->10, Wis 10->12, Cha 10->12

Spear Expertise, Silvery Glow, Gouge Proficiency, Beserker's Fury, Hewing Charge, Wintertouched
Lasting Frost, Deadly Axe, Impaling Spear, Reckless Attacker, Reckless Charge, Power Attack
Axe Mastery, Draconic Arrogance,  Shocking Flame, Long Stride, Overpowering Charge, Surprising Charge

Wicked Strike, Martial Supremacy

+6 Frost Gouge, Iron Armbands, Siberys Shard of Frost, Gloves of Ice, War Ring, Ring of Giants, Horned Helm 

To Hit:
+15 lvl +10 str +6 enh +3 feat +2 prof +2 charge +2 CA +1 Weapon Talent -2 Wicked Strike -2 Power Attack = +37 vs Ref 42, roll twice
= 19% crit, 77% hit

Damage:
4d5+4 base +10 str +10 Wicked Strike +3 expertise +4 feat +5 hewing charge +5 vuln +9 power attack +4 shocking flame +2d5+2 surprising charge +6 enh +6 item +5 shard +4 gloves +3d6 horned helm +2d6 juggernaut +10 draconic arrogance push +10 draconic arrogance prone = 18 +17.5 +97 
= 132.5

Crit:
30+30+97 maxed damage +12 giants +6d5+6 high crit +6d6 frost weapon +1d6 war ring = 18+24.5 +175 = 217.5

MBA (From Reckless Attacker):
To Hit: +37 -2 (no charge) = +35 vs Ref 42 = 19% crit, 72% hit
Damage: 132.5 -10-10-2d6-3d6-2d5-2-5 = 82
Crit: 217.5 -27-40 = 150.5 

DPR: 0.77*132.5 + 0.19*217.5 + 0.19*(0.72*82 + 0.19*150.5) 
= 160.00065

Considering Str 16->28, Con 16->24, Dex 13->17, Wis 11->13
-1 to hit (-2.25% to hit or -3.25% for MBA), -3 damage (Str/Push/Prone), +6 damage (Wicked Strike/Wicked Strike/Hewing Charge), (-1/+4 MBA)
= -0.0225*132.5 - 0.19*0.0325*82 + 0.7475*3 + 0.19*0.6875*3 = -0.853225
End Result:  Str 30 = better.

+6 Agile Elderscale, +6 Beserker's Badge

Defenses:
AC:  47, F: 43, R: 35, W: 33


Obvious changes would include picking up Improved Defenses, Epic Reflexes, Epic Will; I would also much rather pick up Novice Power and be a Gnoll as my second species than a Genasi, so that I could use Hurricane of Blades with a charge.  However, that's at least 6 feats lost, which will probably lose 15-30 DPR on the build.  Which still leaves it much higher than I ever thought a charger could get.

If anyone could post a feat order for me, that would be amazing.  Also, opinions on exactly how much defense this build should pick up would be awesome, as would opinions on Gnoll+Hurricane of Blades.

Playable Version, Work in Progress - 133 DPR +34 DPR with daily +51 DPR with Dancing Greatsword
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Warforged Two Handed Talent Fighter(Barbarian)/Warforged Juggernaut/Reincarnate Champion (Dragonborn, Gnoll)

Str 18->30, Con 13->20, Dex 13->18, Int 8->10, Wis 10->12, Cha 10->12

Feat Order:
1: Spear Expertise
2: Gouge Proficiency
4: Improved Defenses
6: Silvery Glow -> Epic Will (23)
8: Hewing Charge -> Ferocious Charge (24)
10: Reckless Charge -> Wintertouched (11)
11: Lasting Frost
12: Impaling Spear
14: Beserker's Fury
16: Novice Power
18: Reckless Charge -> Axe Mastery (22)
20: Reckless Attacker -> Draconic Arrogance (21)
21: Long Step
22: Overwhelming Charge
24: Fierce Charge
26: Epic Reflexes
28: Reckless Attacker
30: Surprising Charge (see math at bottom of this spoiler to compare to other damage feats; one could also take Plate Proficiency instead)

Same Gear as pure offensive version

DPR:
To Hit: +15 lvl +10 str +6 enh +3 feat +2 prof +2 CA +1 talent +1 charge -2 Wicked Strike = +38 vs Ref 42
= 19% crit, 78.75% hit

Damage: 4d5+4 base +10 str +10 wicked strike +6 enh +6 item +5 shard +4 gloves +3d6 horned helm +2d6 juggernaut +10 draconic arrogance push +10 draconic arrogance prone +3 expertise +5 vuln = 12 +17.5 +73
= 102.5

Crit: 20 +30 +73 maxed base +12 giants +6d6 frost +1d6 war
= 159.5

MBA:
To Hit: +38 -1 = +37 vs Ref 42 = 19% crit, 77% hit

Damage: 102.5 -3d6-2d6-10-10-3 = 62
Crit: 159.5 -53 = 106.5

Surprising Charge: +2d5+2 damage on charge = +0.7875*8 + 0.19*12 = 8.58

DPR: 0.7875*102.5 + 0.19*159.5 + 0.19*(0.77*62 + 0.19*106.5) + 8.58
= 132.519

Damage Feats to consider at level 30: 
Surprising Charge: +2d5+2 damage on charge = +0.7875*8 + 0.19*12 = 8.58
Deadly Axe: +6d5+6 damage on crit = +0.19*24 + 0.19*0.19*24 = 5.4264
Power Attack: -2 to hit, +9 damage on hit/crit = -0.04*97.5 - 0.19*0.05*60 +0.9375*9 + 0.19*0.91*9 = 5.5236
Reckless Charge: +1 to hit on charge = +0.0125*97.5 = 1.21875
Hewing Charge: +5 damage on charge = 0.9775*5 = 4.8875
Silvery Glow: +4 damage on hit/crit = 0.9775*4 + 0.19*0.96*4 = 4.6396

Defenses:
+6 Agile Elderscale, +6 Beserker's Badge

AC: 47, F: 46, R: 42, W: 40

Encounter 'Nova': 
Charge using Ferocious Charge + Hurricane of Blades
To Hit: +38 vs AC 44 = 10% crit, 65% hit
Damage: 4d5+4 +2d5+2 +10 +10 +10 +6 +6 +5 +4 +3 +5 +3d6 +2d6 = 100.5
Crit: 30 +30 +65 +12 +7d6 = 161.5

DPR: 4 *(0.65*100.5 + 0.1*161.5)
= 325.9

4 Enc/Day:
Rain of Steel or equivalent:
2d5+2 +6 +6 +5 +4 +5 = 6 +28 = 34

5 Enc/Day: 
+4 Dancing Greatsword
MBA: 
To Hit: +38 -1-2-3+1 = +33 vs AC 44 = 19% crit, 56% hit

Damage: 102.5 -3d6-2d6-10-10-3-5-5-4-4d5+4+2d10 = 43
Crit: 159.5 -71 = 88.5

Reckless Attacker MBA: (0.19-0.19*0.19)*(0.19*106.5 +0.77*62)

DPR: 0.56*43 + 0.19*88.5 + (0.19-0.19*0.19)*(0.19*106.5 +0.77*62)
= 51.3563525


The Level 12 Version of the Playable Build (31-36 DPR)
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Str 23, Con 16, Dex 14

1: Spear Expertise
2: Gouge Proficiency
4: Improved Defenses
6: Silvery Glow 
8: Hewing Charge
10: Reckless Charge -> Wintertouched (11)
11: Lasting Frost
12: Impaling Spear

+3 Frost Gouge, Heroic Iron Armbands of Power, +3 Badge of the Bezerker, +3 Whatever-it-is-Scale, Heroic, Siberys Shard of Frost, Heroic Horned Helm

Charge w/ Wicked Strike (eat lots of OA's, or whatever else works for you)

To Hit: +6 lvl +6 str +1 talent +3 enh +2 feat +2 prof +2 CA +1 charge -2 Wicked Strike = +21 vs Ref 24 
= 5% crit, 80% hit 

Damage: 2d5+2 base +6 str +3 wicked strike +2 expertise +3 feat +3 hewing charge +5 vuln +3 enh +2 item +1 shard +1d6 horned helm +1d6 juggernaut = 6+7+30 = 43

Crit: 10+12+30+3d6 = 62.5

DPR:  0.8*43 + 0.05*62.5 = 34.4 +3.125
= 35.525

Charge w/ MBA (even with push + shift, if you don't want to eat OA's, you'll usually end up targeting someone new on a regular basis; if you find this happening a lot, it's probably not even worth getting Wintertouched/Lasting Frost until much closer to epic) 

To Hit: +6 lvl +6 str +1 talent +3 enh +2 feat +2 prof +1 charge = +21 vs Ref 24 
= 5% crit, 80% hit 

Damage: 2d5+2 base +6 str +2 expertise +3 feat +3 hewing charge +3 enh +2 item +1 shard +1d6 horned helm +1d6 juggernaut = 6+7+22 = 35

Crit: 10+12+22+3d6 = 54.5

DPR:  0.8*35 + 0.05*54.5 = 28 +2.725 
= 30.725

Defenses
AC: 28, F: 29, R: 23, W: 22

 
Nothing to write home about, but not completely without hope either.  Since you'll still be marking anyone you attack, you'll be able to do your job as a defender well; and since you are wielding a very effective gouge, your Combat Challenge/AoO's are pretty darn sweet as well, so whomever you pick on is probably going to stay with you, as is normal with a fighter.  As something worth looking into, if you don't mind sacrificing ability in epic, switch around stats to get polearm momentum promptly in paragon.  This will let you guarantee shift+charge attacks with Wicked Strike against the same target; but since it requires significant Wisdom, and Overwhelming Strike in Epic is strictly better, I'm not putting it in as a default choice.
Have you given thought to using Iron Vanguard instead of Warforged Juggernaut? It seems like that'll give you more dpr overall, since you're already pushing and proning. I have a variation of this build that functions on the same principle using Goliath as the core race to pick up Avalanche Reaver to initiate the push/prone and uses Iron Vanguard.

What do you think?
Primary problem with that is that I get my push from the Warforged Juggernaut path.  So if I went Goliath/Iron Vanguard, I would have to spend an extra feat on Avalanche Reaver (and this build is already the most incredibly feat-starved build I've made in a long time, even more than most of my PMC Ranger builds).  I would gain 10 damage per charge (con x2 from push/prone), but I would lose 2d6 damage per charge (warforged juggernaut).

So the net result would be that I would gain (10-7-0.2*12 =) 1.8 damage and I would lose 1 feat (which would be worth more than 1.8 damage).  So the only actual gain would be from the powers/features of Iron Vanguard vs Warforged Juggernaut, and I'm really convinced that that would be worth it.  

As a note, if you did go that path, I would recommend dropping surprising charge and increasing your Con back up to 24.  At that point, the numbers would be somewhat better for making the Iron Vanguard match the Warforged Juggernaut, although your defenses would be worse. 
Oho, a charger Fighter! And a use for Wicked Strike in the same thread (le gasp!). Props, man.

I'm looking at your damage bonus breakdown, and I'm only coming up with 132.5, though. In your crit calculations, I think you're misinterpreting the War Ring; it adds +1 critical dice to the weapon or implement, so in the case of the Frost weapon, it would be an admittedly lackluster +1d6 damage, and that puts my calculation of your crit damage at 217.5.

How exactly would you get Hurricane of Blades here, though? This looks like a Fighter MC Barbarian to me, and I don't see Novice Power (or are you planning on getting that?). It also need Improved Defenses; the Ref and Will are deathly low. That said, Plate Proficiency (and Specialization), and maybe an Epic NAD feat or two and it should be very respectable defense all around.

I also don't think Agile Armor will do you all that much good (it sucks for most tiers of play, and even with it your defenses aren't exactly unhittable, so you could lose the bonus and be left none the wiser). Maybe a healing property like Dwarven?
Like I said.. I haven't really decided yet what exact feats I would end up with.  Wicked Strike is actually a bit of a problem, since you have to mark your target before you can use it, so this build REALLY want's to steal a daily power that grants minor attacks at range.. which of course it can't effectively do.  Luckily, on turns where you have to charge with an MBA, you only lose 10 damage; and your hit rate increases by 3%, so you only lose about 6 DPR overall.

In actual play, I would probably drop 6 offensive feats (which must include Shocking Flame) in return for the ones I mention in the final paragraph (Improved Defenses, Epic Will, Epic Fort, drop Shocking Flame, change my second Reincarnate Champion species from Genasi to Gnoll, pick up both Gnoll charge enhancing feats, grab Novice power for Hurricane of Blades.)

However, I haven't actually done the math on what 5 feats + Shocking Flame would be best to drop.  

I also haven't really looked at armour types for actual play.  What I posted above is the pure offensive version, just to give a baseline of what the build COULD reach if you sacrifice everything for it.  Once I've done some more math, and made some of the decisions here, then I would post a playable version.  Once I have a playable version, I'm hoping to actually add lower level snap shots, although I don't think they'll be anything to write home about.

Additionally, while I'd love plate + plate spec, at that point I'm losing 8 offensive feats.. and I'm not sure that's worthwhile, since this is being built as a striker.  I'm also inclined to swap to Battlerager Vigor instead of Two Handed Weapon Talent.  From a survival point of view, it would probably be pretty good, but I have to draw the line somewhere, which will probably depend heavily on how much each feat is going to be getting me.   And I'm afraid that after the first 3 or 4 feats, I'm going to be losing 8+ DPR per feat.

Edit: As to the math, apparently you are right.  I must have mis-calculated something when I was going through the process of swapping out various numbers (like 20 con instead of 24 con, etc).

As for War Ring.. I have been playing a house rule, which is that it can add 1 extra die of any die added on crits, including high crits.  Forgot that that was a house rule, I'll try to modify it.

Both of these math changes will take a bit to put in.  I have actual 2nd year probability math homework to do at the moment (as crazy as that is.) 
With the context that this is a Fighter (and it still has part of the Defender skill set), I think they'll be very worth looking at.

I would say that Power Attack would probably be a candidate to go, since it's actually a counter-intuitive feat until Martial Supremacy rolls along. Similarly, Deadly Axe is kind of marginal up to that point, too.
Like I said.. I haven't really decided yet what exact feats I would end up with.  Wicked Strike is actually a bit of a problem, since you have to mark your target before you can use it, so this build REALLY want's to steal a daily power that grants minor attacks at range.. which of course it can't effectively do.  Luckily, on turns where you have to charge with an MBA, you only lose 10 damage; and your hit rate increases by 3%, so you only lose about 6 DPR overall.

In actual play, I would probably drop 6 offensive feats (which must include Shocking Flame) in return for the ones I mention in the final paragraph (Improved Defenses, Epic Will, Epic Fort, drop Shocking Flame, change my second Reincarnate Champion species from Genasi to Gnoll, pick up both Gnoll charge enhancing feats, grab Novice power for Hurricane of Blades.)

However, I haven't actually done the math on what 5 feats + Shocking Flame would be best to drop.  

I also haven't really looked at armour types for actual play.  What I posted above is the pure offensive version, just to give a baseline of what the build COULD reach if you sacrifice everything for it.  Once I've done some more math, and made some of the decisions here, then I would post a playable version.  Once I have a playable version, I'm hoping to actually add lower level snap shots, although I don't think they'll be anything to write home about.

Additionally, while I'd love plate + plate spec, at that point I'm losing 8 offensive feats.. and I'm not sure that's worthwhile, since this is being built as a striker.  I'm also inclined to swap to Battlerager Vigor instead of Two Handed Weapon Talent.  From a survival point of view, it would probably be pretty good, but I have to draw the line somewhere, which will probably depend heavily on how much each feat is going to be getting me.   And I'm afraid that after the first 3 or 4 feats, I'm going to be losing 8+ DPR per feat



The Epic feat suprise mark will let you mark an enemy at initiative, so you can charge with wicked strike first turn. Other than that, there are a few minor action marking powers you could use to mark, move back, then charge, but you'd eat an OA for that.
Well, he does have Long Step, so he can just shift-charge at Epic.
I've put up what I consider to be the best feat order; if anyone wouldn't mind going over it and commenting, that would be awesome.  (Incidentally, I suppose I could fit Plate/Plate Spec into level 28/30 instead of the feats that are already there, but I don't think I can realistically fit them in any earlier in the epic tier.  Although they could be chosen late in both heroic/paragon tiers as feats to be swapped in epic.)
So, having done more DPR calculations, I've made the corrections as pointed out by LDB.  I've also decided on Reckless Attacker (somewhere in the viscinity of 20 DPR) and Surprising Charge (~9 DPR) for my level 28 and 30 feats.  This means I did not end up with Plate Proficiency, although you could swap out Surprising Charge.

The Final DPR is definitely still a good contender (133 DPR) and actually has some decent defenses (AC 47, F 46, R 42, W 40).  We also fit in Hurricane of Blades + Ferocious Charge, which lets the character start with an average of 325 damage in the first round; enough to kill any standard, and even brutes with a little luck.  All 4 dailies (could) be put towards powers similar to Rain of Steel that do auto damage.  With that auto damage, he should kill a standard every 2 rounds, putting him safely within optimized striker range.

If he wanted to waste all his money/daily item powers, he could pick up another 51 DPR 5/encounters per day, although that will probably not be a good use of such items.

He's first and foremost a striker.  But he has the survivability of a defender (even if he doesn't really have the control of a defender).  I'll try to work on lower level snap shots soon. 
He's first and foremost a striker.  But he has the survivability of a defender (even if he doesn't really have the control of a defender).  I'll try to work on lower level snap shots soon. 

If you're basing it on the San Diego Supercharger, you're also a very good controller. You can knock a monster out of the battlefield and end up more than a double move away from them every round.

Yay, 3000 posts.

It's somewhat based on that build; but for my at-will attacks, I only have a push 1 (granted by the Warforged Juggernaut path).  At the moment I haven't got any items that increase that push (although I could invest in some), and I can't fit in any feats that improve the push.  I also haven't chosen daily/encounter powers beyond Hurricane of Blades; so with careful selection I could probably find some large push abilities.

Are there any particular things you could suggest for this build that would be good push-wise? 
Are there any particular things you could suggest for this build that would be good push-wise? 

Avalanche Boots increase your push by 1 and let you shift 1 after the charge...

I.. actually didn't know that those boots let you shift as well as push further.  That's kind of cool; I could charge, and then push 2 and then shift 2 (and if I picked up mobile warrior, I could shift 3!); but that doesn't really reach the levels of push that ShakaUVM was implying.  I think (from what I remember of the San Diego) that that build is based more on barbarian and some of the 'push = str mod' powers, but I don't think I'll be able to get access to those with this build.

Incidentally, I'm thinking of dropping frostcheese until late paragon, and replacing it with something else; any one know any paragon tier abilities that allow you to shift 2 at will? 
As a note:  Frost cheese is definitely going to be late paragon (probably level 20 actually); taking Powerful Charge and Reckless Charge instead at level 12 (and taking a Vanguard weapon instead of a Frost weapon) increases my level 12 DPR up to 39 (which is starting to become somewhat more acceptable), and I don't need to worry about attacking the same target each round, since none of my abilities will be based on having already hit the target.

I'll update that part of the build soon, probably tomorrow.