[ARCHETYPE] UB Control

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Welcome to the new thread for UB Control!

With the results from the States tournaments reporting in, we now have a solid foundation on which to discuss the viablity of the UB Control archetype for the new standard metagame.

There are various options and directions that someone can use for building their own version of UB control.  Some opt for the more classic Draw-Go style of control, which is basically the most reactive type of magic that anyone can play; where counterspells and instant speed spells and effects are key the deck's success.  Another popular choice is for more of a Midrange-Control style build, where a player's turn will have more "tapping out" action and more board participation.  Removal spells, discard options, more creatures, with light permission are what drives this style of the build.  The draw-go version has more strengths against ramp and other control, while the midrange version is more suited to handle aggro and creature-based decks.

In this primer, we will discuss some of the card choices and look at some various decklists that have shown results from the various States tournaments.

The Cards:
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In order to better understand the options available in deckbuilding, its important to look at the tools we have for constructing these decks.

The Lands:
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Creeping Tar Pit: The "manland".  There have been several predecessors to this manland, such as Mishra's Factory, Stalking Stones, and Faerie Conclave, and this one is the next in line.

Drowned Catacomb: Just one of the latest incarnation of Underground Sea.  Taps for both our colors and usually will enter the battlefield untapped.

Darkslick Shores: The newbie dual land.  While it will late game come into play tapped, it still will hit the ground running during the early game, helping to hit first turn Duress and second turn Mana Leak.

Jwar Isle Refuge: Another dual land with a 1 life bonus at the cost of tempo.  A solid choice, and fine budget card as well.

Island: The greatest of all basic lands.

Swamp: A pretty good basic too.

Tectonic Edge: The new Wasteland.  The thing is important when the new meta seeks to be dominated by Primeval Titan searching Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle or Eye of Ugin.  Instant speed land destruction that doesn't cost us a spell card is good.

Halimar Depths: The Ponder land was initially hailed as amazing for all blue decks because of its potential comboing with Treasure Hunt.  It has fallen out of favor since tap-out UW control became the norm for control decks, and more recently has only been used by Pyromancer Ascension combo decks for more library manipulation.  This might be a good time to revisit this land because of how important library manipulation is for this type of deck.

Bojuka Bog: A free Tormod's Crypt that doesn't cost you a card because its a land.  A solid option against Vengevine decks, but the fact that you'd have to slow roll it might be problematic.  Probably recommended for slower builds not so reliant on countermagic because of the potential loss of tempo.


The Creatures:
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Sphinx of Jwar Isle: Some have called this guy the new Superman.  I like to call it the new Rainbow Efreet, myself.  Huge flying body with shroud makes this a good call in any meta.

Frost Titan: Like sphinx, this guy has a built-in protection ability, but just not as good.  Still, the Icy Manipulator ability allows this guy to race with the likes of Vengevine or Primeval Titan.

Grave Titan: Normally, when this guy hits play, the game can effectively be over.  Most of the time, no aggro deck can overcome the insane board presence this guy generates.  Against control, he can make many inconvenient dudes, but is also subject to Day of Judgment.  But still, this guy is a solid choice and one strongly recommended for consideration.

Wurmcoil Engine: The new Baneslayer Angel in titan-esque form.  Huge swing against aggro players and has a nice built-in anti-wrath ability.  Card advantage wins games, I hear.

Abyssal Persecutor:  This guy is pretty huge and makes a big impact when he hits the board turn 4.  He requires a little build-around, but that isn't too hard to do.  A solid choice for a finisher, perhaps more suited to the creature heavy builds.

Sea Gate Oracle: The blue Wall of Omens.  This guy is the reincarnation of Court Hussar, who was played heavily in control decks during Ravnica-era Standard.  Great digging ability with a board-stalling body.

Trinket Mage: The amazing return of the mage.  Although Standard is still waiting for some more quality artifacts for searching, there are still plenty of available options, making this guy a worth choice; from Brittle Effigy, to Nihil Spellbomb, to Everflowing Chalice, to Chimeric Mass.

Vampire Hexmage: With Oblivion Ring and Maelstrom Pulse leaving standard, short of a strong board position, this gal is the best answer to opposing Planeswalkers, and that is her leading use.  Being on a 2/1 First Striking body ain't bad either.  Also can be used against the ascensions, Ratchet Bomb, or Lux Cannon.

Skinrender: The new Flametongue Kavu and/or Nekrataal.  Getting a 3/3 body with a removal spell is nothing to sneeze at.  Amazing synergy with Mimic Vat builds.

Liliana's Specter: This convenient flier to best suited for builds centered around Mimic Vat again because it can lead to a powerful soft-lock of instant speed discard during the opponent's draw step.

Gatekeeper of Malakir: Cruel Edict on a mana-intensive stick.  This should only be used in the more black heavy builds.

Malakir Bloodwitch: In recent times, this once bane of existence against control decks has gone under the rug somewhat, but may end up being a good option with the new breathe of life that UW Control has gotten.


The Counterspells:
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Mana Leak: All hail one of the next best things to Counterspell itself.  One of the best tempo counterspells ever printed, and its back in standard.

Cancel: A lot of people groaned initially when this became the next best option after the departure of the ominous Cryptic Command, but with tournament results, this has proven itself to be a fine counterspell to run.

Stoic Rebuttal:  99% of the time, this is a Cancel, but that 1% of the time where its a Counterspell, its amazing.  This effectively replaces Cancel or simply is played alongside it for a surprise factor.

Negate: I hear most decks play non-creature spells.  This counterspell is pretty efficient at handling those spells, and has been for the last few years.

Mindbreak Trap: A card that initially was rejected due to its high mana cost.  However, ramp decks sporting Summoning Trap and cards like Gaea's Revenge have made this card become more of an answer for consideration.

Spell Pierce: For as much as this spell wants to be like Force Spike, its not.  Still, its a fine counterspell in certain situations such as control mirrors or as a fast answer to ramp spells.  I would only consider this for the sideboard.

Flashfreeze: Red and green spells have been very popular for the last year now, and it looks like nothing has changed.  Ramp decks, Elf aggro decks, and the new RDW are all reason enough to run these in the board or even the main, depending on your meta.


The Removal:
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Doom Blade: The new Terror.  There's nothing quite as efficient as 2 mana to destroy virtually any creature.  Other than vampires and black based midrange/control decks though, not many black creatures see play right now.

Disfigure: The "black Shock".  1 mana to deal with any number of the mana dorks running around right now is a pretty good deal.  This is also a nice answer to mirror match manlands.  A useful card, to be sure.

Consuming Vapors: The idea is that hopefully mana dorks decks will diminish somewhat in popularity in order for edict-style removal to see play again.  Time will tell if this is the case.  Also, the fact that its a 4 mana sorcery tends to dictate the type of build this should go in.

Brittle Effigy: Colorless removal is also a powerful bonus.  Even though it costs 5 mana total to use, the fact that you can drop this turn 1 and effectively use it for 4 mana isn't too bad.  A great card for dealing with things like Vengevine, which will probably remain popular.  This card is also really good at dealing with any of the Eldrazi legends, should they be allowed to hit play.

Smother: While this card remains ever popular in Legacy, I fear that since there are a lot of 4+ cmc creatures running around, this might not be the best option, at least in the maindeck.

Grasp of Darkness: The color intensive upgrade to Last Gasp.  This card is another good option to run alongside Doom Blade, but might be better suited for builds more favoring black, in order to hit the colors early enough.

Go for the Throat: One of the new tools from MBS.  It makes good work of Grave Titans, a card that was very difficult in the mirror before to deal with.  This card will become a staple in this and many other formats.

Black Sun's Zenith: The new insane sweeper from MBS.  This card is a big incentive to play UB control now, since this was one of the glaring weaknesses in UB's strategy.  UB players will be playing this, i suggest you do the same.

Deathmark: I suspect that green and white creatures will continue to see a significant amount of playtime in standard.  That makes this a fine board option if your meta dictates it.

Consume the Meek: Probably the best available option for mass removal this archetype has.  While 5 mana is a little steep, it does happen at instant speed, which is great because it can be used against manlands, in addition to all the weenies in play.  This is recommended for more Draw-Go style builds or more creature-light builds of the midrange version.

Ratchet Bomb: The new Powder Keg.  This card provides a nice play against weenie aggro decks, mana dork decks, and gives our colors some much needed artifact/enchantment hate.  I recommend this card seriously for consideration.

All is Dust: Probably not a great fit for this deck, but still worth mentioning.  This card might not be a bad board option against UW Control, as they're now the premier Planeswalker deck of the format.  The ability to wipe out an oppenent's board of 2 Planeswalkers and possibly a finisher is pretty swingy.  But then again, it is 7 mana.


The Disruption:
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Duress: The original.  Much like the reasoning behind Negate, people play non-creature spells.  This is a nice proactive answer to those cards, Planeswalkers and Summoning Trap in particular.  Nagging the occasional counterspell in nice too.

Inquisition of Kozilek: This is another good 1 mana proactive card.  This will hit an opponent's early game creatures or can take out a much needed Cultivate or counterspell.  However, the fact that it can't hit Planeswalkers could be problematic.

Perish the Thought: A personal choice that I've been advocating for a while now.  For me, despite the hefty mana cost, being able to hit Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Mana Leak, Primeval Titan, or Summoning Trap all in one card is pretty nice.  I've found that being able to "tap out" on turn 3 against ramp, before thier big turn and snag out their Titan is pretty powerful.  This is a personal call, but I encourage others to try this before writing it off.

Liliana Vess: Probably the weakest of the original 5 Planeswalkers, other than Chandra Nalaar perhaps.  Still, reuseable discard is great, and here tutor ability, especially paired with a Jace, is pretty powerful for sure.


The Card Draw:
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Preordain: This card acts much like a Ponder or Brainstorm before it.  It's useful on turn 1 or turn 10.  I, like many, have found that unlike Ponder, the fact that this can grab one of the top cards and be able to throw stuff on the bottom of the library makes this a great option.  I have become a believer.

Jace's Ingenuity: Drawing 3 cards at instant speed is a very powerful thing.  Since a deck like this makes a point of keeping their lands untapped during the opponent's turn, this card is great for getting through it and capitalizing on thier irrelevant turn.

Jace, the Mind Sculptor: What can be said that hasn't already been said about this guy.  It's card advantage (I mean, lots of it), its a win condition.  If you don't understand why this guy is good by now, there's no helping you.

Jace Beleren: A planeswalker who initially got acclaim during the faeries dominated standard.  Now with the printing of his new self, the original Jace has found a niche of coming down a turn faster to disrupt other Jaces.  On top of that, this guy is a powerful card draw engine in his own right.  Many choose to play this alongside the new Jace.

Foresee: Back when this was first printed, it saw a good deal of play in AngelFire Control decks as a new Compulsive Research.  It's sort of like a sorcery speed Fact or Fiction; drawing 4 deep is pretty huge.  However, Jace effectively outclasses this.  Still, this is a very viable budget option, or could be well recieved in more black heavy builds that want access to more card draw.

Sign in Blood: A good, fast card draw spell.  I'd recommend this more for black heavy builds, but have seen this used in the more blue heavy builds as well due to its very low mana cost.


The Tech (or just everything else)
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Mimic Vat: This card is great in the midrange version of this deck.  With great options like Lilian's Specter, Skinrender, and Grave Titan, this card can just overwhelm an opponent in a hurry.

Volition Reins: A costly answer to resolved Planeswalkers and Titans.  This is a good sideboard card for most builds.

Into the Roil: This is a catch-all answer to anything that slips past our countermagic or removal spells.  This is also a nice tempo card against many decks.

Memoricide: The non-arcane Cranial Extracion looks to be a good option against ramp decks and Planeswalker decks.

Sadistic Sacrament: Recommended for very heavy black builds.  Much like Memoricide, this card is great against ramp decks, especially for pulling out the singleton Eldrazi legends.

Nihil Spellbomb: There are other graveyard hate options available, but I feel this one is the best and most worth mentioning.  Being an artifact, it can be used by anyone.  Since we have access to black, we get the bonus.  This card is fast enough and reliable enough to be considered the best option.  Also, doesn't need heavy sideboard commitment like a Leyline of the Void would.  Haunting Echoes is just too slow, unfortunately.

Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas:  It still remains to be seen how and where this guy is going to impact the format, but I suspect that in the coming months, you will see this guy make top tables.  UB will inevitably play this guy in one way or another.



The Decklists:
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1st place at a States/Champs tournament in Yukon Territory, Canada on 2010-10-10


1st place at a States/Champs tournament in South Carolina, United States on 2010-10-10


1st place at a States/Champs tournament in California, United States on 2010-10-10


My personal list:


5th Place Star City Games Indianapolis:
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Maindeck:

Creatures
2 Grave Titan
" tooltip="Grave Titan"> Grave Titan

Instants
2 Cancel
" tooltip="Cancel"> Cancel
2 Disfigure
" tooltip="Disfigure"> Disfigure
3 Go for the Throat
" tooltip="Go for the Throat"> Go for the Throat
4
" tooltip="Jace's Ingenuity"> Jace's Ingenuity
4 Mana Leak
" tooltip="Mana Leak"> Mana Leak
3 Spell Pierce" tooltip="Spell Pierce"> Spell Pierce
2 Stoic Rebuttal" tooltip="Stoic Rebuttal"> Stoic Rebuttal

Planeswalkers
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor" tooltip="Jace, the Mind Sculptor"> Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Sorceries
2 " tooltip="Black Sun's Zenith"> Black Sun's Zenith
3 Inquisition of Kozilek" tooltip="Inquisition of Kozilek"> Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Preordain" tooltip="Preordain"> Preordain

Basic Lands
5 Island" tooltip="Island"> Island
3 Swamp" tooltip="Swamp"> Swamp

Lands
4 Creeping Tar Pit" tooltip="Creeping Tar Pit"> Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores" tooltip="Darkslick Shores"> Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacomb" tooltip="Drowned Catacomb"> Drowned Catacomb
1 Misty Rainforest" tooltip="Misty Rainforest"> Misty Rainforest
4 Tectonic Edge" tooltip="Tectonic Edge"> Tectonic Edge
1 Verdant Catacombs" tooltip="Verdant Catacombs"> Verdant Catacombs

Sideboard:
3 Ratchet Bomb" tooltip="Ratchet Bomb"> Ratchet Bomb
1 Consume the Meek" tooltip="Consume the Meek"> Consume the Meek
1 Deprive" tooltip="Deprive"> Deprive
2 Disfigure" tooltip="Disfigure"> Disfigure
1 Mindbreak Trap" tooltip="Mindbreak Trap"> Mindbreak Trap
1 Negate" tooltip="Negate"> Negate
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor" tooltip="Jace, the Mind Sculptor"> Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 " tooltip="Black Sun's Zenith"> Black Sun's Zenith
2 Duress" tooltip="Duress"> Duress
2 Memoricide" tooltip="Memoricide"> Memoricide



My surely do hope this archetype will continue to flourish in this new meta filled with ramp and powerful green creatures.  As the polar opposite of green, you'd think we'd have the tools to compete right now.  Based on early results from the States and Champs tournaments, it looks like there is hope for UB Control.

Thanks to all those from the original UB Control thread who helped in discussion and may very well have had a hand in the decks that did go on to have success in the tournaments.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

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*RESERVED*

2/08/11 - Updated OP for MBS cards and a new list from SCG Indianapolis

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

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i approve of this thread
w00t hit my 1000th post on 4/25/2010
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I am Black/Green
I am Black/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both selfish and instinctive. I value growth and community, as long as they favour my own objectives; I enjoy nature, and I particularly enjoy watching parts of nature die. At best, I am resilient and tenacious; at worst, I'm uncontrollable and destructive.

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56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
Show
63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]
I swear the California version looks almost identical to the list I was writing down. the only difference in it is I was running Duress.

Should've went to States. ha.
Ok then, initial huzzah aside, here's a question:

What's the stance on Convertible Turtle?

Not good/relevant enough for Standard at the moment?

If we get the transient facts, then we'll feel the Info-High!
Ok then, initial huzzah aside, here's a question:

What's the stance on Convertible Turtle?

Not good/relevant enough for Standard at the moment?




i personally think not so much, because it's sadly not big enough and doesn't do enough when it hits the field, it was very very good when removal was prevailing and dominate, but now that it's not, it's not as good.
w00t hit my 1000th post on 4/25/2010
Show
I am Black/Green
I am Black/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both selfish and instinctive. I value growth and community, as long as they favour my own objectives; I enjoy nature, and I particularly enjoy watching parts of nature die. At best, I am resilient and tenacious; at worst, I'm uncontrollable and destructive.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
Show
63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]
Great primer.  Should probably be moved to the tourney center.


Right now I actually think this is positioned well against the rest of the field.  Inquisitions and quick doom blades/disfigures help in the aggro matchups, and mindbreak trap helps a LOT against ramp.  I'd say this doesn't really have to many matchups against the current meta.

As far as finishers go; I'd say stick to wurmcoil, frost titan, and jar-jar.  I love skittles and grave titan, but the first three are just soooo much better right now.  

 

 
Ok then, initial huzzah aside, here's a question:

What's the stance on Convertible Turtle?

Not good/relevant enough for Standard at the moment?




I used to swap out my Jacey Bs for Turtles against aggro, RDW has trouble with it since they can't burn it.
 When no one was looking, Pinkie Pie took FORTY cakes. She took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
Include Abyssal Persecutor in the creatures section. A few of the lists have been running him. Also, you forgot Vampire Hexmage. It wouldn't hurt to note that there's actually 2 ways to build the deck. Counter-heavy, and creature-heavy. Both lists end up playing reactionary, but the creature-heavy lists have better matchups against aggro, while the counter-heavy lists do better against ramp. Either version is a wash against control.

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Include Abyssal Persecutor in the creatures section. A few of the lists have been running him. Also, you forgot Vampire Hexmage. It wouldn't hurt to note that there's actually 2 ways to build the deck. Counter-heavy, and creature-heavy. Both lists end up playing reactionary, but the creature-heavy lists have better matchups against aggro, while the counter-heavy lists do better against ramp. Either version is a wash against control.



i will add percy, but hexmage is already there and i did mention in the inital paragraph that there is more than one direction you can take this deck, both draw-go and creature/midrange/board controlling.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

also, i guess if someone wants to come up with a banner for the OP, that'd be cool.  I could do one, but the ones i've tried in the past all suck and i can't get them to look good.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

Nice primer, BF.  After further testing, I feel that you were already on the right path before states, as the permission-heavy build feels more powerful to me than even my pet Mimic Vat list.  (I'm still not ready to convert to the dark side, but perhaps my resistance will break down in time. Yes, I have done some testing with it.)

On the turtle, I have never liked it that much, and it's at an awkward place in the curve.  I'd actually rather have the scry-like effect of Sea Gate Oracle at 3, or else drop Mimic Vat.  Against decks that represent massive early pressure (Goblin Guide or Elf decks), a barrage of Disfigures, Doom Blades, and Into the Roils get you up to your sweeper of choice (Consume the Meek, or Ratchet Bomb), and then you just roll them.  (After sideboarding, of course.)
My take on this based off of what is available to me.
 Main Deck: 60

----------36 non land cards---------
Creatures:7
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2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
sea gate oracle(added draw power/early blocker)
Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon(slightly faster win con but slightly more vulnerable) 

Counters:8


Removal:8
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4 Doom Blade
3 Contagion Clasp (-1/-1 takes care of a large amount of infect creatures, can't regenerate from  -1/-1 death and I can proliferate to either give them more posion counters or give JtMS more loyalty)
1 Contagion Engine(can wipe feilds, again ignores regneration effects, avoids shroud)

Disruption:8

Draw power:3(need more?)

This sexy A--hole:2 (Need more.)

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands:24


Side board:
 
Thoughts? commentary? Questions on decisions? Adjustments based on a meta filled with heavy early game pressure?  


My take on this based off of what is available to me.
 Main Deck: 60
Show


----------36 non land cards---------
Creatures:7
Show

2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
sea gate oracle(added draw power/early blocker)
Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon(slightly faster win con but slightly more vulnerable) 

Counters:8


Removal:8
Show

4 Doom Blade
3 Contagion Clasp (-1/-1 takes care of a large amount of infect creatures, can't regenerate from  -1/-1 death and I can proliferate to either give them more posion counters or give JtMS more loyalty)
1 Contagion Engine(can wipe feilds, again ignores regneration effects, avoids shroud)

Disruption:8

Draw power:3(need more?)

This sexy A--hole:2 (Need more.)

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands:24


Side board:
 
Thoughts? commentary? Questions on decisions? Adjustments based on a meta filled with heavy early game pressure?  





Preordains over ingenuity. Drop the contagion clasps and engires for real removal or utility like hexmage/mimic vat. Either go with Skittles, or don't. Half-assing it with 2 is just gonna hurt your topdecking chances.

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How does this look?


looks pretty good other than the wannabe-fireball.  you can find a better option there.  i think the 4 leylines should really become 2 nihil spellbomb and 2 whatever.  negate or something.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

also, i guess if someone wants to come up with a banner for the OP, that'd be cool.  I could do one, but the ones i've tried in the past all suck and i can't get them to look good.



UB%20Control%20Banner.jpg
 When no one was looking, Pinkie Pie took FORTY cakes. She took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
also, i guess if someone wants to come up with a banner for the OP, that'd be cool.  I could do one, but the ones i've tried in the past all suck and i can't get them to look good.







Very nice...you should pop over to our Big Red thead, and throw one up for us to use their lol.
also, i guess if someone wants to come up with a banner for the OP, that'd be cool.  I could do one, but the ones i've tried in the past all suck and i can't get them to look good.



UB%20Control%20Banner.jpg


very nicely done

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

I can see the preordain.
However, I enjoy the clasp and engines quite a bit for my meta: Heavy on RDW and elves. I don't see how 2 skittles is half-assing it, it's like an odd version of sphinx for a win con.
I mean I look at it like this:
Same cost except black
-shroud
-1/-1
+Infect
+possible haste
+Regenerate ability 
So it is vulnerable to being targeted but can come back from a day, has one less attack/defense but takes one less swing at their life to win the game.
anyone think malakir bloodwitch could make an appearance here if UW control gets as popular as i imagine it might?

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

anyone think malakir bloodwitch could make an appearance here if UW control gets as popular as i imagine it might?



I think most people would rather just play Wurmcoil Engine...I know I would.
for u/w wurmcoil over bloodwitch imo as well. 
anyone think malakir bloodwitch could make an appearance here if UW control gets as popular as i imagine it might?



I can see it in Mimic Vat decks. Swing for 5, gain 1, pretty much guaranteed? I like it.
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bloodwitch: Pro white+1life
Pros:
 stops white spells(oust+etc)
 avoids white creatures(baneslayer mostly)
Cons:
 2B cost requirment
 Still vulnerable to day
 dies to sphinx
Wurmcoil: Deathtouch +life link
Pros:
 kills baneslayer+sphinx
 gives 2 3/3s with deathtouch/lifelink upon day of judgement cast
 no color requirement. 
cons:
 costs one more 
 Can't get around white spells+creatures
How does this look?




Drop the exsanguinates for persecutors or SiB/preordains. BF is right about the leylines, though graveyard hate isn't really necessary if you've got mimic vat. Ratchet Bombs or grasp of darkness would both be fine for anti-aggro tech.

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I can see the preordain.
However, I enjoy the clasp and engines quite a bit for my meta: Heavy on RDW and elves. I don't see how 2 skittles is half-assing it, it's like an odd version of sphinx for a win con.
I mean I look at it like this:
Same cost except black
-shroud
-1/-1
+Infect
+possible haste
+Regenerate ability 
So it is vulnerable to being targeted but can come back from a day, has one less attack/defense but takes one less swing at their life to win the game.



I'm saying either run 4 skittles or 4 sphinx, but not a 2/2 split.

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@ Dreamclown

here's a revision on your list i think would do well for you.  i agree with razor that you should be running one or the other as far as finishers go.  since you have a mini-proliferate subtheme going on, it might not be a bad idea to try and exploit that and use poison counters as your win con/alt-win con.  and like you said, it works nicely with jace in order to gain loyalty while still brainstorming.  i think you can get away with less of the artifacts thought as they're sorcery speed and are slow things themselves.  that being said, i think the clasps should be fine, as they are good against mana dorks or even midrange creatures.  another nice aspect is that it makes ratchet bomb that much potentially faster and deadlier.

Lands:
4 - Creeping Tar Pit
3 - Darkslick Shores
4 - Drowned Catacomb
1 - Scalding Tarn
1 - Marsh Flats
4 - Tectonic Edge
6 - Island
3 - Swamp
25 Lands

Creatures:
2 - Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
4 - Sea Gate Oracle
6 Creatures

Other Spells:
2 - Stoic Rebuttal
4 - Mana Leak
2 - Mindbreak Trap
4 - Doom Blade
2 - Ratchet Bomb
2 - Into the Roil
3 - Perish the Thought
2 - Contagion Clasp
4 - Preordain
2 - Jace's Ingenuity
2 - Jace, the Mind Sculptor
29 Other Spells:

Sideboard:
2 - Wurmcoil Engine
2 - Negate
2 - Flashfreeze
2 - Vampire Hexmage
3 - Memoricide
2 - Brittle Effigy
2 - Consume the Meek
15 Cards in Sideboard

really, i didn't change too much.  all i did for the most part was play around with numbers here and there.  i increased your land count because 24 is just far too few right now.  25 is a much better number, but its still on the low end of control decks in this day and age, so to make up for that, i highly recommend running a set of preordain because they let you grab early land drops, but then can be used to filter later in the game for whatever spells you need.  they're also nice when you have jace out for sticking crappy cards on the bottom when you don't have a shuffle effect.  i also maxed out some of your duals and tectonic edges, both of which are very very important.  tectonic edge is so versatile at dealing with manlands (a problem for any counter deck) and eldrazi lands/valakut.

for creatures, i suggested the dragon to support your proliferate theme.  sphinx would work well too, its all up to you.  however, i think that you don't need to be running both, especially because you have wurmcoil out of the board.  sea gate oracle is also fine, since you're not as much draw-go as some lists.  so its nice for you to have a wall of omens type card for early defense and digging.

for your spells, i think 8 counters should be fine, but depending on your playstyle and meta, you may decided to play with this number (probably increasing if anything).  stoic rebuttal is effectively cancel, but since you're running more artifacts than some lists, its entirely possible you'll hit metalcraft, so there's no reason not to just run it instead.  i upped the perish count to 3, because i feel only 2 won't make enough of a difference on average.  running 2 means you'd like to see one in a game, but not necessarily early game, where its better.  however, 4 can create more late game dead draws.  3 should be a fine number.  i think you only need 2 into the roil  they're a nice card and a get out of jail free card, but they're also only temporary answers.  i've found from experience that 2 is probably the best number, good when needed, and not there when not needed. 

the board is basically the same, but i did add consume the meek because its really good against weenie aggro like elves, WW, and even RDW on occasion.  ratchet bomb, while good, can be too slow.  vampire hexmage might need to be put up to 3 again, but it depends on how many planeswalkers you expect to face.  i know my list has more counterspells, so i ultimately can get away with only 2, but you should see how it is for you.  also, negate in your board is better than more mindbreak traps.  mindbreak trap is fine and all, but its slow and only really useful as such against certain situations, and negate, you'll find, is very good in mirror matchs.

otherwise, i think everything is self-explanatory.  any questions or concerns, let me know.  as is, i think the list should be fine for your tournament on saturday.  good luck.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

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Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

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This is what I'm working with right now:

Creatures (16)
4x Vampire Hexmage
4x Liliana's Specter
4x Bloodghast
2x Grave Titan
1x Wurmcoil Engine
1x Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief

Artifacts (6)
2x Darksteel Axe
2x Infiltration Lens
2x Basilisk Collar

Spells (12)
4x Duress
2x Sadistic Sacrament
2x Doom Blade
2x Grasp of Darkness
2x Foresee

PW's (2)
2x Jace Beleren

SB
4x Phylactery Lich
2x Memoricide
2x Dark Grasp
2x Doom Blade
3x Leyline of the Void
1x Consume the Meek
1x Carnifex Demon

Couple comments about my choices:
1) My meta is 30%+ U/W control.  I made a couple nods to aggro in here, but I expect to see control more often than not.  That affected a few of my choices: it's the reason that Lich is in the sideboard, and there's no Mimic Vat.
2) I like Foresee for card draw.  When I want draw, I need choices and CA, and Foresee has both. 
3) Why Carnifex Demon?  Just in case I run into infect.  Think about it.
4) Why Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief?  Well, she's cheap (relatively), she flies, and she can ping weenies.  There's a joke in there somewhere...
5) Why the 2/2 split between Grasp of Darkness and Doom Blade?  I'm not THAT concerned about running into the mirror, but who knows. 
6) I like Bloodghast as a counter-proof 2 drop that eats "good removal" that would otherwise be saved for something else.  Also a pain for aggro.

Some things I've been thinking about:
1) I kind of want at least 1-2 Memoricide in the MB.  Either that, or run 4x Sad Sac  G1 and then swap around with Sad Sac/ Memoricide G2.
2) I may swap some of the equipment to SB and some of the spells to MB.  That way I have equipment for Lich if I need it, and there's less chance of getting flooded with equipment.
Figured I could drop this list off for now.
Pretty much the next build version from what I had since the U/B general thread; still waiting on the cards, but I'm planning to go for something along the lines of this:

Land (26):
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Creeping Tar Pit
2x Darkslick Shores
4x Tectonic Edge
2x Halimar Depths
1x Mystifying Maze
5x Island
4x Swamp

Creatures(5):
3x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
2x Sphinx of Lost Truths
Spells(29):
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Negate
2x Deprive
4x Mana Leak
4x Cancel
3x Doom Blade
3x Into the Roil
2x Consuming Vapors
2x Jace Beleren
3x Jace's Ingenuity

Sideboard(15):
4x Duress
3x Consume the Meek
3x Flashfreeze
1x Negate
4x Calcite Snapper (mostly for local meta / shroud trolling; for all intents and purposes, count this as 4 empty spots)

As soon as I can find some Grave Titans, I'm probably going to pull out Sphinx of Lost Truths to make room... though I'm not sure if 5+ creatures in a permission-type build is actually too much or not.

If anyone wants to screw with the numbers, feel free to do so.
If we get the transient facts, then we'll feel the Info-High!
2) I like Foresee for card draw.  When I want draw, I need choices and CA, and Foresee has both.


Jace, the Mind Sculptor would be better at four mana, he almost digs as deep and he is utility and can keep netting you card advantage and controlling your card quality, he is also a huge threat.
Jace's Ingenuity is better if you are just looking for card draw in my opinion, the instant speed is really important to have.
3) Why [/c]Carnifex Demon[/c]?  Just in case I run into infect.  Think about it.


But he's just bad. He is sitting there wasting your sideboard slots.
4) Why [/c]Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief[/c]?  Well, she's cheap (relatively), she flies, and she can ping weenies.  There's a joke in there somewhere...


That's fair I guess, but she is still a 4/4 for five that doesn't effect the board right away or have any kind of resistance to removal, I think you have better choices for bombs.
6) I like Bloodghast as a counter-proof 2 drop that eats "good removal" that would otherwise be saved for something else.  Also a pain for aggro.


Control can probably safely ignore him since you aren't an aggro deck. Also it is not a pain for aggro, read the card again:
"Bloodghast can't block."
"Bloodghast can't block."
"Bloodghast can't block."
 When no one was looking, Pinkie Pie took FORTY cakes. She took 40 cakes. That's as many as four tens. And that's terrible.
@BigK - I really don't like the equipment. I know you want to run lich out of the side, but there are better ways to shore up your aggro matchups, and it's actually going to improve your deck overall if you replace the equipment slots with countermagic/removal, mimic vats, or utility dudes like hexmage and gatekeeper.

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well... I think the page or forum is messed up or you messed up or it's just a shell. Point being there isn't 60 cards here and there isn't 11 monsters here. 
anyone think malakir bloodwitch could make an appearance here if UW control gets as popular as i imagine it might?


the most prevelant removal that can actually target and kill her is in white, so probably. Also, her on mimic vat can be fun if you have a couple vamps out.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
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but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
Show
97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
I need to know should I drop Wrumcoils for more graves or the other way around.

Should I include minic vat instead of nighthawk. Just in general not the meta or anything which one is just a better SB.

I'm having trouble with U/W control mostly they use lots of tectonic's and sun titan is a big fat @ hole in the deck( since it brings back lots of stuff as well as tectonic's) What should I do go full on basics or what?
I need to know should I drop Wrumcoils for more graves or the other way around.

Should I include minic vat instead of nighthawk. Just in general not the meta or anything which one is just a better SB.

I'm having trouble with U/W control mostly they use lots of tectonic's and sun titan is a big fat @ hole in the deck( since it brings back lots of stuff as well as tectonic's) What should I do go full on basics or what?

If the list in your sblock is your current deck, I can't see how you are getting by with seven 6-drops in a deck with only 22 lands.

Bump up Preordain to 4x, add 2-3 land, and move Wurmcoil to the SB (it's OK vs Red, but generally both black and blue Titans are better).  You'll need another 2 slots; I suggest that Mind Control is a weak card here.  Alternately, I wonder about how Contaminated Ground is performing for you, so those could be replaced to make room.

UW has not been a problem matchup for either my Mimic Vat/midrangey UB, nor the UB permission list like the one that took California states.

Cheers
@BigK - I really don't like the equipment. I know you want to run lich out of the side, but there are better ways to shore up your aggro matchups, and it's actually going to improve your deck overall if you replace the equipment slots with countermagic/removal, mimic vats, or utility dudes like hexmage and gatekeeper.



I'll probably move 2 pieces of equipment to the sideboard and sub in a spell or 2.  Don't underestimate lich.  He's a huge problem if he goes unanswered, and a lot of decks have no way to deal with Phylactery Lich + Darksteel Axe.

I haven't been thrilled with vat.  Against a mid-range deck, paired with some decent CiP critters, it's great, but there aren't any mid-range decks in my meta.  I'm either laying vat in the open with nothing to imprint for turns against control or laying it out when I'm already down 8-9 life against aggro.  If things change, I'll definitely work it in, but as it stands I think I have better options.


Jace, the Mind Sculptor
would be better at four mana, he almost digs as deep and he is utility and can keep netting you card advantage and controlling your card quality, he is also a huge threat.
Jace's Ingenuity is better if you are just looking for card draw in my opinion, the instant speed is really important to have.


Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't mind having 1-2 big jaces for this list, but I'm not shelling out the cash for it.  I actually like the scry on Foresee better han the raw cards because I have more options in what to pick, and a total reach of 6 cards vs. 3.  The instant speed would be more relevant to me if I ran counters, but I don't.

I'm considering trying to fit in a few Turn Asides or Dispels as cheap answers to removal and opposing counters.
I was running UB permission at my last FNM and realized that Bx Poison can be a really big problem. Those black, 2-drop poison flyers are strangely hard to kill. Jace is a bit late as an answer, counters are not open until the next turn if on the draw and doom blade is a complete bust. My sideboard of CtM was again too late to help too. My current thoughts on the matter are possibly Smother to be kept in sideboard. I know the restrictions are a bit tight but brought in against Bx aggro it really fills in that dead space. Grasp of Darkness is another good option but I run primarily blue so that could be hard to use early for my deck.