What to tell your 4e Friends that is different about GW

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So while GW is very much built on the 4e engine, there are some key mechanical difference that I have spotted and wanted to see if there were others I missed so when I sit down with a bunch of 4e experts I can clearly note what is not there so they do not try to make use of these things.

1 - No action Points
2 - Second Wind is a minor action and heals your Bloodied Value 1/encounter
3 - No healing surges to track
4 - Rests (short or extened) heal all HP
5 - No charging
6 - No Bull Rush/Sunder/Grab/Trip - special attacks in general


Now I can see 5 & 6 being added back in by those who want it, but straight RAW nothing about them in the game.

Anything else?

That GW is a CCGRPG.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

Technically your players don't need any cards, they can take all draws from the DM's deck.

Additional things that players should know before getting into it:

1. There are no classes.
2. Your race is chosen randomly.
3. Starting gear is non-specific (encourage PCs to describe their gear!)
4. There is a card draw system which adds much randomness.

I've played two GW games so far and I've seen more roleplaying happening in them than I have seen in any standard 4e game.  Getting players thinking about how to describe what they are based on the two origins and what their starting armor and weapons are really seem to go a long way towards sparking the imagination and getting everyone into the world.

EDIT: Oh, and when we played we used charges and bull rush.  I feel they were only omitted from the rulebook to keep it simple, not with the intention of fully removing them from the game if players are already used to 4e rules.
The required XP for each level is lower.

If you run through the sample adventure in the book, you will go from 1st to 3rd level in 8 encounters.

Couple this with a level-10 maximum, and the whole game just goes a lot faster. 
The Doctor Comics Blog: doctorcomics.blogspot.com On Twitter @doctorcomics GW Card List: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/26023881/Card_List
Technically your players don't need any cards, they can take all draws from the DM's deck.



Unless they're interested in playing at game day and other events.  Those require the purchase of boosters.

There are a great many problems that can be circumvented by players and DMs having a mature discussion about what the game is going to be like before they ever sit down together to play.

 

The answer really does lie in more options, not in confining and segregating certain options.

 

You really shouldn't speak for others.  You can't hear what someone else is saying when you try to put your words in their mouth.

 

Fencing & Swashbuckling as Armor.

D20 Modern Toon PC Race.

Mecha Pilot's Skill Challenge Emporium.

 

Save the breasts.

The description for the first Gamma Game Day shouldn't have that requirement (although it does). As the designated GM for the store I participate at, I've already picked up the core game and 2 boxes of boosters. The players who arrive on Game Day only have to bring their imagination. Why make them pay for a game they may not like? That is if any new (non-established group members) show up... Interest in the game days has declined since the removal of the "Adventure Specific Minis" (Hint Hint). When passers by see people playing games with counters and a few minatures it makes them think board game (or bored game).
It would be nice if Gamma World got some love from the mini front... Heck, I'd rather pay for them as "collectible minatures" than as cards that should have been sold as a complete set... Unless the PTB plan to do the Magic "planned obsolesce" as the game evolves...
Skills, attacks, etc., add your character's level instead of half your level, and as mentioned above, advancement is 10-levels total instead of 30.

WotC has been saying in podcasts, etc., that characters/monsters can be moved back and forth between GW and 4e, which seems weird given these basic mechanical differences.
Skills, attacks, etc., add your character's level instead of half your level, and as mentioned above, advancement is 10-levels total instead of 30.

WotC has been saying in podcasts, etc., that characters/monsters can be moved back and forth between GW and 4e, which seems weird given these basic mechanical differences.



PCs in 4E have feats, magic items, and various class features which add to their defenses and attack bonuses. But if you look at the monsters or companion characters (DMG2), the formula for those things is the same as GW's PC creation: add the character's level, instead of 1/2 their level, but they don't benefit from feats or magic items.

It's the same scale. It's just simpler and only goes up to 10. 
The Doctor Comics Blog: doctorcomics.blogspot.com On Twitter @doctorcomics GW Card List: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/26023881/Card_List
Transferring will be easy once you purchase the D&D 4ed to Gamma World conversion boxed set.. Includes: character sheets
Conversion Calculator
More Tokens
Rules Erratta
Even More Tokens

Available late Q4 2071
You add your stat mod to the DAMAGE rolls of many attacks.

I've played two GW games so far and I've seen more roleplaying happening in them than I have seen in any standard 4e game.  Getting players thinking about how to describe what they are based on the two origins and what their starting armor and weapons are really seem to go a long way towards sparking the imagination and getting everyone into the world.



This is exactly what Ive discovered as well. Since it is way more lethal, the players have been roleplaying through encounters or coming up with ways to overcome an encounter without any combat. Its been really exciting and refreshing for once.

But failure is also fun as well, they love to hear gruesome details of how they die or how a failed science check actually had their character mix the wrong chemicals and cause a huge explosion.

I also love the starting gear of choosing armor, melee, and ranged weapons.
So much I think I want to do more examples for the different weapon categories. 
You add your stat mod to the DAMAGE rolls of many attacks.


And you already do that in 4th Edition D&D.  Not sure how this is different.
You add your stat mod to the DAMAGE rolls of many attacks.


And you already do that in 4th Edition D&D.  Not sure how this is different.



Hmmm...for some reason, my spell check changed "level" to "stat mod."  Laughing
Another thing I found "missing" is rules for Skill Challenges. 
Skill Challenges: How about the Game Master sets up the environment (along with descriptions), sets difficulties for completing/gaining data, and then the players roam about in it. Make them role play for information instead of just saying "Can I just use my Interaction skill to see what I learn in the town?" (yes, I've heard that at 4th edition games)
Oh, I agree, but the whole # of success before a # of failures is not noted in GW - which I guess also explains there are no milestone either.  
i played a session at NYCC and they gave us (for free) 2 booster packs.  so...each player who played the entire weekend was given 2 free booster packs.
For me the main point I say is that Gamma World can be set anywhere famaliar. Because of the vagueness of the rule book & the world that IS Gamma Terra, you can set your campaign in your own backyard!

Pax 2010 had an adventure where players were running through Seattle.
My home game has players running through Disneyland.

I've played Gamma World with both D&D players, & non D&D Players and they've all been able to relate to the locations and feel more connected than in regular 4e.

Just my thoughts.
Michael Robles Community Manager Wizards of the Coast Twitter: @michaelrobles
Yeah, I've prettymuch always set my Gamma World games in my hometown.  Even though the maps said it was underwater.  (Does the Apocalypse have something against 'blue states' or what?)  Vagueness isn't a feature that lets you fill in whatever you want.  I can always overwrite whatever I want, anyway.  I'm just as happy getting no setting information, as paying for a lot of setting information that I'm not going to use, though, so no harm done.   (And the few flavorful hints were cool.  Like, oh, Alpha Complex sitting up in the hills somewhere - that was funny)



 

 

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Minor things:

* Shields only add to AC, not to Reflex
* All damage is typed, and weapons do Physical damage
* You don't get up if you roll a 20 on your death save

More minor things:

* No alignments
* No languages

Gamma World Downloads: Character sheets, GM screen, adventures, monsters, house rules, cards, and more! You can usually find my posts at the Gamma World forum.

Today I was comparing the new DM's kit screen and noticed all the skill challenge DCs were very different in GW vs. D&D
Gamma World has a different base math.

First and foremost, you add your LEVEL to all rolls, not half your level. This bumps everything right off the bat.

Your skill bonuses are different and limited.

You get +4 to one skill for your origin, +4 to a second one for your second origin.
And then +4 to a random skill (rolled) as well.

All three of those could very well be the same skill.

if both your origins are based on the same stat, you'd have a 20, for +5
Then +12 for all three randoms being the same.
Add level, and you have +18 at level 1.

The main difference, though, is adding level, not half
AlexandraErin: If last season was any indication, I think Encounters is pretty much the elemental opposite of "organized" play!
Makes perfect sense when you spell it out like that.
Adding your level, not half your level, is direct compensation for lack of feats and magic items.

If you look at, say, the rules for Companion Characters in DMG2, they also add their level instead of half-level to attack rolls and so on. This is because they get no feats and no benefit from any magic items they may carry.

The random skill bonuses are, as you note, a huge factor here. But the level bonus is just simplification and is actually on the same "scale" as other 4E PCs. 
The Doctor Comics Blog: doctorcomics.blogspot.com On Twitter @doctorcomics GW Card List: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/26023881/Card_List
Make them role play for information instead of just saying "Can I just use my Interaction skill to see what I learn in the town?" (yes, I've heard that at 4th edition games)



And 3rd edition.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Make them role play for information instead of just saying "Can I just use my Interaction skill to see what I learn in the town?" (yes, I've heard that at 4th edition games)



And 3rd edition.



And 2nd edition.

Gamma World Downloads: Character sheets, GM screen, adventures, monsters, house rules, cards, and more! You can usually find my posts at the Gamma World forum.

Make them role play for information instead of just saying "Can I just use my Interaction skill to see what I learn in the town?" (yes, I've heard that at 4th edition games)



And 3rd edition.



And 2nd edition.



And even World of Darkness.
But not 1st?
But not 1st?



Nah, almost nobody bothered with reaction rolls back then, even though there were rules for it.

Gamma World Downloads: Character sheets, GM screen, adventures, monsters, house rules, cards, and more! You can usually find my posts at the Gamma World forum.

Did you just stab people then instead of talking?
Did you just stab people then instead of talking?



Of course! What else could you possibly do?

Gamma World Downloads: Character sheets, GM screen, adventures, monsters, house rules, cards, and more! You can usually find my posts at the Gamma World forum.

Ist edition sounds fun....
(Does the Apocalypse have something against 'blue states' or what?)


The Apocalypse doesn't care about your political affiliation; they hate everybody.

What you need to do is move uphill; avoid the threat of sea-level rising!  (Although in my backstory I dropped a dinosaur-killer-sized asteroid on Antarctica to get the rising sea level...)

Best complements I have yet received:

Show

Making it up as I go along:

{BRJN} If I was writing the Tome of Lore, I would let Auppenser sleep. But I also would have him dream. In his dreaming he re-activates the innate powers of (some) mortal minds. Or his dreaming changes the nature of reality - currently very malleable thanks to Spellplague &c. Or whatever really cool flavor text and pseudo-science explanation people react positively to.

{Lord_Karsus} You know, I like that better than the explanations for the Spellplague.

 

Prepped ahead of time:

I started the thread "1001 Failed Interrogation Results" (which seems to have faded into that great electronic goodnight, alas)

{ADHadh} These are all good and make sense! I just can't come up with something that's not covered here and is not completely ridiculous.

 

My 4e characters:

Show

Active:

LFR Half-elf StarLock8 Gondolin Nightstar

AoA Dwarf Guardian Druid8 Narvik from House Wavir

Character Ready-to-go:

Neverwinter Dwarven Invoker / Heir of Delzoun, worships Silvanus (!) "Truenamer" - speaks Words of Creation

Concepts I'm kicking around:

"Buggy" Wizard - insect flavor on everything.  His DMPC version is going to become a Lamia.  Becauae lichdom is so cliche.

Halfling Tempest Fighter - just because nobody else is doing it

Shifter Beast-o-phile Druid - for Nentir Vale campaign

Another difference I just noticed:

Creatures (not just Allies) do NOT provide Cover.

WotC has been saying in podcasts, etc., that characters/monsters can be moved back and forth between GW and 4e, which seems weird given these basic mechanical differences.



Huh, hadn't heard about that. Monsters would be pretty portable, as long as you keep an eye on the power scale (since there are no NAD boosters or magic bonuses to AC/Weapons). But characters? Unless they provide some sort of major rules for that, I don't see how that can be doable, given some of the major mechanical differences. GW chars dont fall into the normal point buy range at all, and often can have ability scores that break normal 4E rules. (I had a Yeti with a 3 Int). They don't get feats, sometimes they end up with no at-wills, and they dont have classes. Characters don't gain powers the same way either.
I could see some portability with Gamma World characters.
Huh, hadn't heard about that. Monsters would be pretty portable, as long as you keep an eye on the power scale (since there are no NAD boosters or magic bonuses to AC/Weapons). But characters? Unless they provide some sort of major rules for that, I don't see how that can be doable, given some of the major mechanical differences. GW chars dont fall into the normal point buy range at all, and often can have ability scores that break normal 4E rules. (I had a Yeti with a 3 Int). They don't get feats, sometimes they end up with no at-wills, and they dont have classes. Characters don't gain powers the same way either.


Really, though, look at the end result of all those varied mechanics.  They have the same "important" scores, the same basic range of defenses and attack bonuses, basic attacks that are comparable in power to classic D&D at-wills, and roughly the same number of available powers.

I'll have some more specific numbers on the comparison soon anyhow. 

Found one from an adventure I ran last Friday - No rules in the book on 3D combat (page 206 of the new Essentials Rules Compendium has it), with Arns darting in and out of combat from higher elevations we used those rules, but it would have been nice to have as so many critters can fly now.

And even World of Darkness.


Well, yes. That could be, for example, Wits + Streetwise to find someone with the right information and then Manipulation + Persuasion to convince them to share it. After all, fully one third of the skills in WoD deal with social activities, and although the ideas and roleplay from the players obviously can modify the rolls (like any other circumstances), ultimately those mechanics are what allows you "to see what I learn in the town."

And even World of Darkness.


Well, yes. That could be, for example, Wits + Streetwise to find someone with the right information and then Manipulation + Persuasion to convince them to share it. After all, fully one third of the skills in WoD deal with social activities, and although the ideas and roleplay from the players obviously can modify the rolls (like any other circumstances), ultimately those mechanics are what allows you "to see what I learn in the town."


My point was that roleplay is ultimately independent of edition, game, or mechanics as a whole.  Even in one of the most renowned, RP-oriented, mainstream systems, you can end up in the group of players that says "I roll the dice."  Note that I am not passing judgment on said players. 

Doomed_Prophet was simply showing off his Edition War PTSD.