Black Fly: Another Annoying Rogue - Goblin Hybrid

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Black Fly


goblin rogue-warlock
daring acrobat
demigod
"kamikazee charger"


/// BUILD REPOSTED --->  HERE ///




Here's my version of a Goblin annoying rogue - a little fellow named Black Fly.  He'll buzz around his opponents, divebombing them with his charges out of nowhere, and then dissappearing under their noses.  Like a fly, he's elusive, hard to pin down, and he never stops moving.  With his sharp teeth and taste for blood and mischief, he's the very best kind of pest.

In his earlier career, he served in the army of the dark lord as a sergeant.  The orcs and hobgoblins and such soon learned that bullying him wasn't worth their time.  He'd dissappear between their legs and then kick them in the backside.  In the end though, army life wasn't for him.  The food was good (lots of spoiled meat always hanging around unattended on someone's cookfire), but he always had an eye for bigger and better things.  Why shouldn't HE be the dark lord after all???  He felt he had the good looks for it, but somehow he never could get any of the captains to agree to his plans to change the plunder distribution rules.  Something about blindly serving His Terribleness's pleasure didn't sit well with Black Fly.  In the end, he got kicked out of the army for painting lewd graffitti on the hill giants' shields.  No one appreciated an artist it seemed.  And there was very little humor to be had among his dark majesty's subjects, to be frank.

Thus began the adventures of Black Fly.  I encourage anyone to try him out in their local game and let me know back here how he performed.  I'm obviously biased, but I think he oozes roleplay potential and entertainment value.

In reviewing the build, I'd enjoy hearing any reactions, observations, comments and/or recommendations.  I'll continue to clean him up as presentably as I can

Build Goal and Tactics


The goal of this build is to design an optimized melee-based lurker.  Rather than sit at range and pepper opponents with range attacks, Black Fly dives in and out of combat with impunity.  With  high mobility, he has the power to improvise - changing targets as needs dictate.  But in general, he won't be looking to engage the front-line opponents.  He's looking to squeeze behind enemy lines to strike at the leaders and range strikers that are causing you and your party the most grief.  If things get dodgy, he'll run back to your healer and complain loudly about his injuries.  He's a goblin.  The concepts of discression, self-respect and propriety have gone out the window   That said, he is designed with an eye towards defenses and durability.  It's likely often he'll be mixing it up outside the range of your healer.  With judicious use of stealth, however, he should be able to extend his survivability.
  • He's a Lurker:  His stealth is optimized through a factors that boost his skill and factors that expand the ways he can put it into use.  With a boost to his ability to shift with the Risky Shift feat at 6th level combined with the Improved Cunning Sneak feat, he can hide at the end of any action where he shifts two squares.  By gaining Shadow Walk as early as 4th level, he carries his own concealment for hiding with him almost perpetually (as long as he keeps moving on his turn).  And between his goblin racial power to shift (when an opponent misses him with an attack), and many items he gets from early on in his career that allow him to shift in other circumstances, he'll dissappear from sight at the drop of a hat.

  • He's a Melee ChargerWith Boots of Adept Charging and later Avalanche Boots, he gains a key ability - the opportunity to shift after a charge.  And with his Daring Acrobat paragon path, he can take subsequent actions after he does his charge and shift.  This means he gains the ability to charge, shift & hide, and then move away from the last known location where his opponents saw him (thus avoiding any likely incoming attacks on that vicinity).  As such, he takes items that boost his charge power (e.g. Vanguard Rapier, Tigerclaw Gauntlets and the Horned Helm) to make his charge attacks more deadly.  Combine that with an ability to charge with several rogue-based encounter/daily powers and with his warlock at-will, and he has the ability to reliably deliver even more extra damage.

  • He's an OpportunistA lurker's strategy is one of opportunity.  When your opponents don't know where you are, they tend to stumble into you at odd moments, inciting your attacks  You also have the benefit of easily being able to squeeze yourself behind enemy ranks to cause havoc with all the squishies back there.  No caster or artillerist is going to want to have to deal with Black Fly up close and personal.

NOTE: To make best use of Black Fly, it's important to have a good grasp of the stealth rules.  I strongly recommend the following guide by LordOfWeasels, as it spells out the rules comprehensively in an easy-to-understand way: The Rules of Hiden Club: Targeting things you can't see in D&D.

[sblock Version 1.0: Goblin Rogue-Warlock / Daring Acrobat / Demigod]
[sblock Level 1 Snapshot - 10/06/2010 12:30 AM MST]

Black Fly


Level:  1
Race:  Goblin [MM]
Class: 
Rogue|Warlock hybrid

Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid): Infernal Pact (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlock: Hybrid Warlock Will
Hybrid Talent: Rogue Tactics (Hybrid)
Rogue Tactics (Hybrid): Cunning Sneak (Hybrid)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Light Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Ki Focuses)
Gritty Sergeant Benefit: Choose Nothing
Background: Gritty Sergeant (Gritty Sergeant Benefit) [D 366]

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 15.

Ability Scores with racial adjustments:
Strength 13 (+1)
Constitution 13 (+1)
Dexterity 18 (+4)
Intelligence 10 (+0)
Wisdom 8 (-1)
Charisma 17 (+3)

HP: 25
Bloodied: 12 HP or less
Healing Surges: 7
Healing Surge Value: 6

AC:
16
Fort: 11
Reflex: 16
Will: 14

Trained Skills:
Stealth +11, Acrobatics +9, Perception +4, Intimidate +8, Thievery +11

Untrained Skills:
Arcana, Bluff +3, Diplomacy +3, Dungeoneering -1, Endurance +1, Heal -1, History, Insight -1, Nature -1, Religion, Streetwise +3, Athletics +1

Feats:
Houserule - Weapon Proficiency (Rapier) (houseruled with Gritty Sergeant background till Essentials update to Character Builder) [HotFL]
Houserule - Versatile Expertise  (houserule of an expertise feat allowed to offset feat tax)
L1 - Hybrid Talent [PHB 3] ---> select Cunning Sneak

At-Will Attack Powers:
L1 - Acrobatic Strike (rogue) [MP 2]
L1 - Eldritch Strike (warlock) [PHH1]

Encounter Attack Powers:
L1 - Cursebite (warlock) [FRPG]

Daily Attack Powers:
L1 - Handspring Assault (rogue) [MP] ---> rogue charge attack

Items:
Leather Armor, Rapier, Adventurer's Kit, Dagger (2)

Discussion:
    Early in his tenure during the heroic levels, Black Fly behaves as your standard Cunning Sneak rogue with a few warlock tricks up his sleeves. 
    By fourth level, he'll have multiclassed in Assassin and picked up Cursed Shadow, which gives him access to the warlock Shadow Walk class feature.  The fun is starting and he now carries with him his own private tool to guarantee nearly perpetual concealment as long as he keeps his little legs moving (at least 3 moved squares during his turn ensures concealment till the end of his next turn).
    At sixth level, he'll pick up Risky Shift and at eighth level, he'll pick up improved Cunning Sneak.  Now whenever he has an opportunity to shift, he can roll his stealth check to hide (as his requirement for Cunning Sneak is now two squares and he's keeping his concealment up via Shadow Walk).
    As early as he can, he'll pick up some Boots of Adept Charging, which give him the ability to shift after a charge.  And by level 3, he already has three attack powers he can use for his charges (Eldritch Strike, Jumping Blade Assault, and Handspring Assault).  Now, he can charge, hide and subsequently move to a spot where his opponents wont suspect he's at.  If they do manage to hit him, he can shift again (given his goblin racial power) and if he's unhidden at the time he can quickly hide.  He's a slippery devil, to be sure!!!
[/sblock]

[sblock Level 11 Snapshot - 10/05/2010 10:15 PM MST]

Black Fly


Level:  11
Race:  Goblin [MM]
Class: 
Rogue|Warlock hybrid
Paragon Path: 
Daring Acrobat [MP]

Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid): Infernal Pact (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlock: Hybrid Warlock Will
Hybrid Talent: Rogue Tactics (Hybrid)
Rogue Tactics (Hybrid): Cunning Sneak (Hybrid)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Light Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Ki Focuses)
Gritty Sergeant Benefit: Choose Nothing
Background: Gritty Sergeant (Gritty Sergeant Benefit) [D 366]

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 15.

Ability Scores with racial adjustments:
Strength 14 (+2)
Constitution 14 (+2)
Dexterity 21 (+5)
Intelligence 11 (+0)
Wisdom 9 (-1)
Charisma 20 (+5)

HP: 76
Bloodied: 38 HP or less
Healing Surges: 8
Healing Surge Value: 19

AC:
24
Fort: 19
Reflex: 24
Will: 23

Trained Skills
Stealth +19, Acrobatics +15, Perception +9, Intimidate +15, Thievery +17

Untrained Skills
Arcana +5, Bluff +10, Diplomacy +10, Dungeoneering +4, Endurance +7, Heal +4, History +5, Insight +4, Nature +4, Religion +5, Streetwise +10, Athletics +7

Feats:
Houserule - Weapon Proficiency (Rapier) (houseruled with Gritty Sergeant background till Essentials update to Character Builder) [HotFL]
Houserule - Versatile Expertise  (houserule of an expertise feat allowed to offset feat tax)
L1 - Hybrid Talent [PHB 3] ---> select Cunning Sneak
L2 - Shadow Initiate [D 382; D 379]
L4 - Cursed Shadow [D 385]
L6 - Risky Shift [MP 2]
L8 - Improved Cunning Sneak [MP 2]
L10 - Surprising Charge [MP]
L11 - Backstabber [PH]

Daring Acrobat Path Features:
L11 -
Acrobatic Action [MP] ---> action point also gains a move action
L11 -
Tumbling Positions [MP] ---> do not grant CA when balancing, climbing or prone

At-Will Attack Powers:
L1 - Acrobatic Strike (rogue) [MP 2]
L1 - Eldritch Strike (warlock) [PHH 1]

Encounter Attack Powers:
L1 - Acrobat's Blade Trick (rogue) [MP 2] ---> retrained at Level 7 from Cursebite (warlock)
L3 - Jumping Blade Assault (rogue) [MP 2] ---> rogue charge attack
L7 -
Mire the Mind (warlock) [PHB]
L11 - Wild Tumble Cut (Daring Acrobat power) [MP] ---> rogue charge attack

Daily Attack Powers:
L1 - Handspring Assault (rogue) [MP] ---> rogue charge attack
L5 - Forceful Assault (warlock) [FRPG]
L10 - Knockout (rogue) [PHB]

Utility Powers:
L2 - 
* Sneak in the Attack (rogue) [MP] ---> off-turn Sneak Attack damage
L6 - Unspeakable Bond (warlock) [D 382] ---> damage avoidance encounter power
L10 - ** Persistent Tail (warlock) [PHB 3] ---> sneak up to targets while they're moving to gain an OA
* - give serious consideration here to Obscured Avoidance (skill) [PHB 3] ---> excellent way to get rid of mark conditions that can ruin his day when he tries to safely shift away
** - Executioner's Mien (rogue) [MP] is another solid option here as a means to further impede your opponents' attacks for an encounter.

Magic Items (Expected GP = 32,000): common | uncommon | rare
L10 (5,000 gp):  Shadow Warlock Leather Armor +2 [AV 2] body
L10 (5,000 gp):  Strikebacks (heroic) [AV] hands
L9 (4,200 gp):  Incisive Dagger +2 [AV 2] off hand
L8 (3,400 gp):  Final Sleep Ki Focus +2 [D 382] ki focus
L8 (3,400 gp):  Vanguard Rapier +2 [AV] main hand ---> +1d8 charge damage; d8 crit die
L7 (2,600 gp):  Elven Cloak +2 [AV 2] neck
L6 (1,800 gp):  Belt of the Flanker's Bane (heroic) [D 381] waist
L6 (1,800 gp):  Iron Armbands of Power (heroic) [AV] arms
L6 (1,800 gp):  Horned Helm (heroic) [PHB] head
L3 (680 gp):  Escape Tattoo [AV 2] tattoo
L2 (520 gp):  Boots of Adept Charging [AV] feet                         
TOTAL: 31,800 gp

Discussion:
    This build capitalizes on mobility, particularly shifting.  The idea is to trigger shifts in as many ways as possible and boost these sufficiently to allow him to hide.  Using the combination of Shadow Walk (if he keeps moving each turn, he maintains concealment perpetually), Improved Cunning Sneak (to allow him to hide with concealment after only moving 2 squares), and Risky Shift (which boosts all his shifts to 2 squares), he can shift (or teleport) and hide in any of the following circumstances:

  (1) An enemy misses him with a melee attack (goblin racial power)
  (2) An enemy scores a critical hit against him (Escape Tattoo)
  (3) He reduces an enemy to 0 hit points or fewer (Final Sleep Ki Focus)
  (4) He completes a charge (doesn't matter if he hits or misses) (Boots of Adept Charging)

    This makes for a very handy charge-based strategy derived from the 16th level feature of his  Daring Acrobat paragon path:

Agile Charge (16th level):  When you begin a charge, you gain a +1 bonus to AC and Reflex until the start of your next turn.  Also, after completing a charge, you can take further actions (if you have any left).

So once he reaches 16th level, he'll begin an encounter as follows:

  (1) Minor action:  Curse opponent
  (2) Standard Action:  Charge with rogue power (from more than three squares away).  With
        Shadow Walk + Shadow Warlock Armor, he gains concealment + combat advantage vs. his
        opponent.  He can then use his rogue's Sneak Attack.  After the charge, he can shift away
        2 squares with Boots of Adept Charging + Risky Shift and make a stealth roll to hide.  Note
        that between Surprising Charge, the Vanguard Rapier, and the Horned Helm, he has +2d8
        and +1d6 damage on any charge.  So even when he expends his two encounter rogue
        charges, he can still do respectable damage.
  (3) Move action: Since he's already hidden after his charge (if his stealth succeeds), he can now
        move away from what his enemies know as his last known location.  He'll benefit most by
        moving more than 2 squares and getting as much distance as he can from his starting
        location (in case his opponent(s) try to hit that spot with a blast or burst attack.  Ideally,
        he will move adjacent to an enemy against whom his stealth roll probably succeeded.  This
        way, when that opponent next moves, he'll likely get an opportunity attack.
  (4) Opponent's Turn:  Most likely, his opponent will move at some point, triggering an opportunity
        attack from Black Fly (at which point he loses his hidden state).  This provides a great chance
        for him to attack using Eldritch Strike and apply his Warlock's Curse damage.  If he hit's, he'll
        also gain the benefit of being able to slide his opponent one square (and possibly interrupt
        what his opponent was attempting).
  (5) Note: Ending adjacent to his opponent when he's not charging is assisted when he spends
        an action point and gains an extra move action in addition to the standard action (Daring
        Acrobat
11th level paragon path feature).

    If his opponent is lucky enough to attack his square while he's hidden, he'll likely be applying the -5 to his attack for Black Fly's being hidden.  If he does manage to succeed and is attacking with a melee attack, Black Fly can hit him again with another dose of Eldritch Strike using his Strikebacks.

Persistent Tail Tactic:  The best use of this power is intermittent so as to keep your opponent guessing.  After you've become hidden after charging & shifting, use Persistent Tail on a target of your choice within range of a standard move.  When they move on their turn (at the point where they've moved their first square of movement), you take your move to position yourself adjacent to them (Rules Compendium, p.196).  As they continue their movement, they'll either bump into you or move away from you - triggering your opportunity attack.  With careful positioning, forethought and a bit of luck, you can really put a wrench in your opponent's action by using the Eldritch Strike opportunity attack to slide them off the course of their movement.  The key thing to remember here is that if you do this, you won't have moved by the end of your turn after you initially became hidden.  Thus when your opponent decides to attack the square of your last known location, they'll be correct in their targetting.  And they just may decide to do this before they actually take their move action.  Carefull planning is important to keep them guessing wrong.
[/sblock]

[sblock Level 21 Snapshot - 10/05/2010 10:15 PM MST]

Black Fly


Level:  21
Race:  Goblin [MM]
Class: 
Rogue|Warlock hybrid
Paragon Path: 
Daring Acrobat [MP]
Epic Destiny:  Demigod [PHB]

Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid): Infernal Pact (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlock: Hybrid Warlock Will
Hybrid Talent: Rogue Tactics (Hybrid)
Rogue Tactics (Hybrid): Cunning Sneak (Hybrid)
Twofold Pact: Dark Pact
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Light Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Ki Focuses)
Divine Spark: Divine Spark Strength
Divine Spark: Divine Spark Dexterity
Gritty Sergeant Benefit: Choose Nothing
Background: Gritty Sergeant (Gritty Sergeant Benefit) [D 366]

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 15.

Ability Scores with racial adjustments:
Strength 17 (+3)
Constitution 15 (+2)
Dexterity 26 (+8)
Intelligence 12 (+1)
Wisdom 10 (+0)
Charisma 23 (+6)

HP: 127
Bloodied: 38 HP or less
Healing Surges: 9
Healing Surge Value: 63

AC:
34
Fort: 32
Reflex: 39
Will: 34

Trained Skills:
Stealth +27, Acrobatics +23, Perception +15, Intimidate +21, Thievery +25

Untrained Skills:
Arcana +11, Bluff +16, Diplomacy +16, Dungeoneering +10, Endurance +12, Heal +10, History +11, Insight +10, Nature +10, Religion +11, Streetwise +16, Athletics +13

Feats:
Houserule - Weapon Proficiency (Rapier) (houseruled with Gritty Sergeant background till Essentials update to Character Builder) [HotFL]
Houserule -  Versatile Expertise  (houserule of an expertise feat allowed to offset feat tax)
L1 - Hybrid Talent [PHB 3]
L2 - Shadow Initiate [D 382; D 379]
L4 - Cursed Shadow [D 385]
L6 - Risky Shift [MP 2] ---> retrained to Long Step [PHB 3] at Level 21
L8 - Improved Cunning Sneak [MP 2]
L10 - Surprising Charge [MP]
L11 - Backstabber [PHB]
L12 - Twofold Pact [D 366]
L14 - Improved Defenses [HotFL] ---> Essentials Feat: +1/+2/+3 to NADs by tier
L16 - Repel Charge [PHB 3]
L18 - Nimble Blade [PHB]
L20 - Weapon Focus (Light Blade) [PHB]
L21 - Light Blade Mastery [PHB]

Daring Acrobat Path Features:
L11 -
Acrobatic Action [MP] ---> action point also gains a move action
L11 -
Tumbling Positions [MP] ---> do not grant CA when balancing, climbing or prone
L16 -
* Agile Charge [MP] ---> +1 AC/Reflex after a charge; also may take further available actions after charging
* -
critical to charge tactic

Demigod Features:
L21 -
Divine Spark [PHB] ---> increase to ability scores by 2

At-Will Attack Powers:
L1 - Acrobatic Strike (rogue) [MP 2]
L1 - Eldritch Strike (warlock) [PHH 1]

Encounter Attack Powers:
L1 - Acrobat's Blade Trick (rogue) [MP 2]
L3 - Jumping Blade Assault (rogue) [MP 2] ---> rogue charge attack
L7 -
Mire the Mind (warlock) [PHB]
L11 - Wild Tumble Cut (Daring Acrobat power) [MP] ---> rogue charge attack
L13 - Vaulting Charge (rogue) [D 381] ---> replaces Acrobat's Blade Trick
L17 - Leaping Dagger Kick (rogue) [MP 2] ---> replaces Vaulting Charge ---> rogue charge attack

Daily Attack Powers:
L1 - Handspring Assault (rogue) [MP] ---> rogue charge attack
L5 - Forceful Assault (warlock) [FRPG]
L10 - Knockout (rogue) [PHB]
L15 - Plague of Frogs (warlock) [AP] ---> replaces Forceful Assault ---> (because goblins like frogs)
L19 - Hilt Slam (rogue) [MP 2] ---> replaces Knockout ---> (great for pushing enemy back into frogs)
L20 - Dramatic Finish (Daring Acrobat power) [MP] ---> rogue charge attack

Utility Powers:
L2 - Sneak in the Attack (rogue) [MP] ---> off-turn Sneak Attack damage
L6 - Unspeakable Bond (warlock) [D 382] ---> damage avoidance encounter power
L10 - Persistent Tail (skill) [PHB 3] ---> sneak up to targets while they're moving to gain an OA
L12 - Flawless Stunt (Daring Acrobat power) [PHB] ---> minor action +5 bonus to acrobatics/athletics
L16 - Hero's Defense (warlock) [AP] ---> damage avoidance encounter power

Magic Items (Expected GP = 800,000): common | uncommon | rare

*- important items to the mechanics of the build

L20 (125,000 gp):  Diamond Cincture (paragon) [AV 2] waist ---> provides some extra healing
L20 (125,000 gp):  * Shadow Warlock Snakeskin Armor +4 [AV 2] body
L19 (105,000 gp):  * Assassin's Cloak +4 [AV] neck ---> roll twice for stealth!!!
L18 (85,000 gp):  * Final Sleep Ki Focus +4 [D 382] ki focus
L18 (85,000 gp):  * Tigerclaw Spiked Gauntlets +4 [AV] off hand / hands
L18 (85,000 gp):  * Vanguard Rapier +4 [AV] main hand
L16 (45,000 gp):  * Horned Helm (paragon) [PHB] head
L16 (45,000 gp):  Iron Armbands of Power (paragon) [AV] arms
L14 (21,000 gp):  Iron Ring of the Dwarf Lords [PHB] ring ---> provides extra surge
L10 (5,000 gp):  * Avalanche Boots [D 385] feet ---> upgrade to Boots of Adept Charging
L3 (680 gp):  * Escape Tattoo [AV 2] tattoo                                                                               
TOTAL:  743,680 gp

Discussion:
    With the Tigerclaw Spiked Gauntlets, his speed while charging is now 8 squares. 
This gives him an effective retreat strategy after charging.  This starts as usual with his charge and subsequent shift 2 away and roll stealth to hide.  If his stealth roll is poor, he'll retreat 6 further squares.  And if his wishes to engage him in melee, they'll likely need to spend a move action and a charge.  At this point, he'll gain the benefit of his Repel Charge feat, whereby he'll get his chance at an opportunity attack with Eldritch Strike (and the chance to slide the charging opponent 1 square away, thus nullifying it's attack).  Regardless, if his opponent does manage to hit him with any kind of attack, he gets his riposte in with Dark Spiral Aura (and a second chance to get in his Warlock's Curse damage).
   
Defensively with as much hiding as Black Fly can expect to do, the Assassin's Cloak is just too good to pass up.  The insurance it provides against bad stealth rolls is critical (it allows the user to roll twice whenever they roll their stealth skill and take the preferred result).  And when he charges, he gets a +1 boost to both AC and Reflex.  This combined with the extra healing surge from his Iron Ring of the Dwarf Lords and the defensive utility powers Unspeakable Bond and Hero's Defense help allay some of his inherent squishiness.  If he stays in one place (perhaps he's playing with his frogs), he also gains a +2 additional bonus to his stealth roll.
    By level 17, he'll have 3 rogue encounter-based charges and one daily rogue charge.  Combined with options to charge using Eldritch Strike and get his rogue sneak attack damage in off-turn with Sneak in the Attack, he should have frequent opportunities to get in both sets of striker extra damage in a given round.
    Mire the Mind gives him a shot at spreading the benefits of invisibility and hidden to the rest of his allies.
    Plague of Frogs is an excellent zone power that he can move around and entertain himself with when he's tired and shagged-out from all that charging around.  He'll just find himself a comfy spot and rain down a few range attacks while he's biting and licking bits of skin and blood off his rapier (he can also fire off a few range attacks to keep things intersting and hold back a well-placed Hilt Slam to knock a BBEG back into the frogs)
[/sblock]

[sblock Level 30 Snapshot - 10/06/2010 12:54 PM MST]

Black Fly


Level:  30
Race:  Goblin [MM]
Class: 
Rogue|Warlock hybrid
Paragon Path: 
Daring Acrobat [MP]
Epic Destiny:  Demigod [PHB]

Eldritch Strike: Eldritch Strike Charisma
Eldritch Pact (Hybrid): Infernal Pact (Hybrid)
Hybrid Warlock: Hybrid Warlock Will
Hybrid Talent: Rogue Tactics (Hybrid)
Rogue Tactics (Hybrid): Cunning Sneak (Hybrid)
Twofold Pact: Dark Pact
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Light Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Ki Focuses)
Divine Spark: Divine Spark Strength
Divine Spark: Divine Spark Dexterity
Gritty Sergeant Benefit: Choose Nothing
Background: Gritty Sergeant (Gritty Sergeant Benefit) [D 366]

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 8, Cha 15.

Ability Scores with racial & epic PP adjustments:
Strength 17 (+3)
Constitution 15 (+2)
Dexterity 28 (+9)
Intelligence 12 (+1)
Wisdom 10 (+0)
Charisma 25 (+7)

HP: 172
Bloodied: 86 HP or less
Healing Surges: 13
Healing Surge Value: 43

AC:
44
Fort: 43
Reflex: 45
Will: 42

Trained Skills
Stealth +36, Acrobatics +29, Perception +20, Intimidate +27, Thievery +31

Untrained Skills
Arcana +16, Bluff +22, Diplomacy +22, Dungeoneering +15, Endurance +17, Heal +15, History +16, Insight +15, Nature +15, Religion +16, Streetwise +22, Athletics +18

Feats
Houserule - Weapon Proficiency (Rapier) (houseruled with Gritty Sergeant background till Essentials update to Character Builder) [HotFL]
Houserule -  Versatile Expertise  (houserule of an expertise feat allowed to offset feat tax)
L1 - Hybrid Talent [PHB 3]
L2 - Shadow Initiate [D 382; D 379]
L4 - Cursed Shadow [D 385]
L6 - Risky Shift [MP 2] ---> retrained to Long Step [PHB 3] at Level 21
L8 - Improved Cunning Sneak [MP 2]
L10 - Surprising Charge [MP]
L11 - Backstabber [PHB]
L12 - Twofold Pact [D 366]
L14 - Improved Defenses [HotFL]
L16 - Repel Charge [PHB 3]
L18 - Nimble Blade [PHB]
L20 - Weapon Focus (Light Blade) [PHB]
L21 - Light Blade Mastery [PHB]
L22 - Unfettered Stride [PHB] ---> allows his strategy to work unfettered in difficult terrain
L24 - Epic Fortitude [PHB 2] ---> all that running around finally pays off - he's gained some endurance!
L26 - Critical Ambush [D 373] ---> now he can apply sneak attack damage to his Eldritch Strike off-turn attacks
L28 - Untraceable [D 373] ---> now once he's hidden, he absolutely stays hidden
L30 - Martial Mastery [MP] ---> regain a charge attack after spending an action point!!

Daring Acrobat Path Features:
L11 -
Acrobatic Action [MP] ---> action point also gains a move action
L11 -
Tumbling Positions [MP] ---> do not grant CA when balancing, climbing or prone
L16 -
* Agile Charge [MP] ---> +1 AC/Reflex after a charge; also may take further available actions after charging
* -
critical to charge tactic

Demigod Features:
L21 -
Divine Spark [PHB] ---> increase to ability scores by 2
L24 - Divine Recovery [PHB] ---> daily heal to half hit points when initially reduced to 0 hit points
L30 - Divine Miracle [PHB] ---> regain encounter charge attack after expending the last encounter power!!!

At-Will Attack Powers:
L1 - Acrobatic Strike (rogue) [MP 2]
L1 - Eldritch Strike (warlock) [PHH 1]

Encounter Attack Powers:
L3 - Jumping Blade Assault (rogue) [MP 2] ---> rogue charge attack
L7 -
Mire the Mind (warlock) [PHB]
L11 - Wild Tumble Cut (Daring Acrobat power) [MP] ---> rogue charge attack
L17 - Leaping Dagger Kick (rogue) [MP 2] ---> rogue charge attack
L23 - Web of Lies (warlock) [D 386] ---> replaces Mire the mind

Daily Attack Powers:
L1 - Handspring Assault (rogue) [MP] ---> rogue charge attack
L15 - Plague of Frogs (warlock) [AP]
L19 - Hilt Slam (rogue) [MP 2]
L20 - Dramatic Finish (Daring Acrobat power) [MP] ---> rogue charge attack
L25 - Bounding Assault (rogue) [MP 2] ---> replaces Hilt Slam ---> rogue charge attack
L29 - Caiphon's Abominable Melody (warlock) [D 366] ---> replaces Plague of Frogs

Utility Powers:
L2 - Sneak in the Attack (rogue) [MP] ---> off-turn Sneak Attack damage
L6 - Unspeakable Bond (warlock) [D 382] ---> damage avoidance encounter power
L10 - Persistent Tail (skill) [PHB 3] ---> sneak up to targets while they're moving to gain an OA
L12 - Flawless Stunt (Daring Acrobat power) [PHB] ---> minor action +5 bonus to acrobatics/athletics
L16 - Hero's Defense (warlock) [AP] ---> damage avoidance encounter power
L22 - Indomitable Agility (rogue) [MP 2] ---> he needs this as a way to get rid of nasty conditions
L26 - Divine Regeneration (Demigod power) [PHB] ---> daily regen = highest ability mod


Magic Items (Expected GP = 14,625,000): common | uncommon | rare

Slotted Items ---> *- important items to the mechanics of the build

L30 (3,125,000 gp):  * Shadow Warlock Starleather Armor +6 [AV 2] body
L29 (2,625,000 gp):  * Assassin's Cloak +6 [AV] neck
L28 (2,125,000 gp):  * Thundergod Rapier +6 [AV] main hand ---> +2d6 charge damage; d12 crit die
L28 (2,125,000 gp):  * Final Sleep Ki Focus +6 [D 382] ki focus
L26 (1,125,000 gp):  * Horned Helm (epic) [PHB] head
L23 (425,000 gp):  Greater Ring of Invisibility (epic) [AV 2] ring
L23 (425,000 gp):  Iron Armbands of Power (epic) [AV] arms
L23 (425,000 gp):  * Tigerclaw Spiked Gauntlets +5 [AV]
off hand / hands
L21 (225,000 gp):  Ring of Tenacious Will (epic) [AV] ring ---> adds 5 healing surges!!!
L20 (125,000 gp):  Diamond Cincture (paragon) [AV 2] waist
L10 (5,000 gp):  * Avalanche Boots (heroic) [D 385] feet
L3 (680 gp):  * Escape Tattoo (heroic) [AV 2] tattoo

Reserve Slotted Items ---> non-default items used in different circumstances

L10 (5,000 gp)Hat of Disguise [AV] head
---> for causing trouble in places where he shouldn't be smile.gif

Unslotted Items (wonderous items - TOYS!) ---> nice items to have, but not critical
*- best of the lot for Black Fly

L25 (625,000 gp):  * Diamond Scabbard (epic) [AV] ---> Quick Draw effect + extra damage 1/encounter
L19 (105,000 gp):  Bronze Griffon (paragon) [D 384] ---> great for charging flying creatures - SQUAK!!
L19 (105,000 gp):  Portable Hole (paragon) [PHB] ---> excellent adaptable toy
L18 (85,000 gp):  * Globe of Projection (paragon) [D 383] ---> excellent stealth toy for directing enemy attacks elsewhere!!!
L17 (65,000 gp):  Serpentine Owl (paragon) [D 384] ---> Owl's boon lends darkvision - HOOT!!
L16 (45,000 gp):  * Solitaire (Aquamarine) (paragon) [AV] ---> riposte to crit as a free melee basic
L14 (21,000 gp):  Emerald Frog (paragon) [D 384] ---> handy to prevent flanking - CROAK!!
L12 (13,000 gp):  * Stone of Earth (paragon) [AV2] ---> daily melee re-roll
L11 (9,000 gp):  Dice of Auspicious Fortune (paragon) [D 381] ---> a goblin must have dice to play with
L10 (5,000 gp):  Skeleton Key (heroic) [AV] ---> for getting into places where he shouldn't be smile.gif
L5 (1,000 gp):  Bag of Holding (heroic) [PHB] ---> for storing more toys!                                            
TOTAL: 13,839,680 gp (360,320 gp left)

Discussion:
   
At level 25, Black Fly receives his final rogue charge attack.  At this point, he has 3 encounter-based charges and 2 daily charges, plus the charge power he gets as part of his Tigerclaw GauntletsPlus, he can regain one charge after all encounter attack powers are expended through his Divine Miracle 30th-level epic destiny feature.  And he can regain another after spending an action point (Martial Mastery feat).  That's 4-5 extra strong charge powers every encounter with 3 daily charge powers as extra if needed.  Add to this a strong at-will charge via Eldritch Strike which now can apply BOTH his Warlock's Curse and his Sneak Attack damage and he's got the sustainable  damage-dealing stamina of an Energizer Bunny.
    Other items worth note here include the Ring of Tenacious Will, which gives him 5 additional healing surges (basing his surges on Charisma instead of Constitution).  Also, I'm a big fan of the Globe of Projection.  With all the sneaking around and constant hiding he's doing it can be a lot of fun.  As long as he's performed the 1 minute to activate the globe each day, he can set the stored illusions of himself to go off on triggers (like command words he's prepared).  The globe stores 2 minor actions, 2 move actions, and 1 standard action worth of illusions of himself, so that's a lot to work with .  Have fun hiding and then popping off an image of himself sneaking around on the opposite side of his opponent!  Watch enemies waste attacks!  Loads of fun.  The only trouble he'll have is in trying to smother his cackles of glee as his enemies fall all over themselves trying to find him.
    I've listed a ton of wonderous items, but don't expect that they're all required.  They're recommendations as toys he might enjoy.  Don't worry though.  If you don't use these, I'm sure his sticky fingers will pick up others
[/sblock]

I really like it. I was messing around with the concept myself, except not with Goblin + shifting stuff. I really like that idea, and the White Lotus feats work perfectly with a Rogue. Well done Severion. Just a few notes:

Arcane Implement Proficiency (Light Blade) will let you use your weapon for your Warlock implement, eliminating the need to wield both a rapier and a wand and allowing you to go with a Shield + Blade and Buckler or TWF + TWD (need to boost your Con over Int for shield, but you should do that anyway).

Put those points in Con over Int. Int does nothing for you since you already have Dex for your Ref, so boosting Con makes you a bit more sturdy.

You can't take Dark Pact with Twofold when you already picked it for your Hybrid pact. Just a minor thing there.

For epic, if you take implement proficiency, then Light Blade Mastery would be nice, although you don't have the stats for it. Warding Curse is made of win for this build, as it really pushes those defenses over the top. After that, just find some feats that suit you well.

I'm not really familiar with the powers, so I'll avoid commentary on those.

Overall, very nice work so far Severion. I like the concept of the build, and you built to it's strengths. Keep it up.
I really like it. I was messing around with the concept myself, except not with Goblin + shifting stuff. I really like that idea, and the White Lotus feats work perfectly with a Rogue. Well done Severion.


Thanks!   I really like the goblin racial power and it seemed a natural for the Cunning Sneak/Shadow Walk tactic.  I appreciate the kind words.

Arcane Implement Proficiency (Light Blade) will let you use your weapon for your Warlock implement, eliminating the need to wield both a rapier and a wand and allowing you to go with a Shield + Blade and Buckler or TWF + TWD (need to boost your Con over Int for shield, but you should do that anyway).


I looked at an option like this, but the shield proficiency option requires 13 Str (Shield Prof), and 2 feats (Shield Prof + Blade & Buckler).  I was hard pressed trying to make a selection to drop the feats necessary to make that happen.  I ended up deciding that as a Lurker and a Striker, he should prioritize feats that boost his damage and boost his stealth strategy.  It just ended up that there wasn't much left over to play with.
 
Put those points in Con over Int. Int does nothing for you since you already have Dex for your Ref, so boosting Con makes you a bit more sturdy.


I definitely think there is something worthwhile with shifting my Int 14 to Con 14, however.  I do get some damage boost from the Int on the Warlock side of the hybrid though, so that's been weighing me in the Int direction so far.  I'll give it some thought.

You can't take Dark Pact with Twofold when you already picked it for your Hybrid pact. Just a minor thing there.


Good catch! I'll change that.

For epic, if you take implement proficiency, then Light Blade Mastery would be nice, although you don't have the stats for it.


Another good argument for boosting Strength... this might tip the balance.  Again, it deserves a second look.

Warding Curse is made of win for this build, as it really pushes those defenses over the top.


Ooh! Good call

Overall, very nice work so far Severion. I like the concept of the build, and you built to it's strengths. Keep it up.


Thanks again!
Are you building for 20?  If so, I'd drop the Paragon Hybrid and pick up a pair of Phantom Chaussiers (or however they're spelled) and get a real PP.
Are you building for 20?  If so, I'd drop the Paragon Hybrid and pick up a pair of Phantom Chaussiers (or however they're spelled) and get a real PP.


I definitely like the Phantom Assassin PP for this build, but found the feat cost too high (requires 2 feats: Acolyte of the Veil and Cursed Shadow).  I just took a look at Phantom Chaussures.  An awesome item, to be sure, but I do note that they're listed as an 18th level item (common at level 23).  That seems a bit steep to reasonably believe he'd have them atfter just hitting paragon, where Shadow Walk otherwise becomes availabe.

That said, like I said earlier, I'm not really up on the protocol people on this forum are using for optimizing builds for items.  What's the rule-of-thumb for assessing item availability by level and overal resources by level for purchasing items to fill out a character?

I'm used to building characters up to 20, but I'd love to optimize him to be strong at whatever level he's played.  Any thoughts/recommendations in that regard are quite welcome.
Grabbing some Boots of the Fencing Master is a must here. Overall, my magic items would try to look something like this at level 30:

Armor: grab some Hide armor and probably go Lifeblood. With a HP number as small as yours, especially for a melee character, you'll need all the durability you can get. (Note: put the points from Int into Con for this).

Weapon: Not really sure on this one. A Lifedrinker could work if you don't want Lifeblood. Feyslaughter is just a genuinely nice option, since teleporting enemies are often some of the most troublesome enemies to deal with. A Rhythm Blade should be in your offhand for sure. As a matter of fact, grabbing a Pact Blade Rapier is about as perfect a weapon you can find. It saves you the arcane implement feat and it has the nice feature of adding damage to cursed enemies who attack you.

Arms: Iron Armbands. No exceptions.

Feet: Boots of the Fencing Master. Same boat as Armbands, no exceptions.

Hands: Gauntlets of Destruction and Gauntlets of Blood are both nice, and probably the 2 you'll be looking at.

Head: the Circlet of Arkhosia is one of my favorites, since you need some way to get rid of nasty conditions. The Eye of Awareness is overall solid.

Neck: Brooch of Vitality for some extra HP or Steadfast Amulet to get rid of nasty conditions.

Rings: Greater Ring of Invisibility is nice, but there really aren't any here that I know of that would help your specific build.

Waist: Diamond Cincture has both emergency healing and a Fort boost, which is by far your lowest defense. I'd say that's a good pickup.

Those would be merely my own choices, and you don't need to take any of that advice, but I like those items as generally useful instead of situationally useful.
Are you building for 20?  If so, I'd drop the Paragon Hybrid and pick up a pair of Phantom Chaussiers (or however they're spelled) and get a real PP.


I definitely like the Phantom Assassin PP for this build, but found the feat cost too high (requires 2 feats: Acolyte of the Veil and Cursed Shadow).  I just took a look at Phantom Chaussures.  An awesome item, to be sure, but I do note that they're listed as an 18th level item (common at level 23).  That seems a bit steep to reasonably believe he'd have them atfter just hitting paragon, where Shadow Walk otherwise becomes availabe.

That said, like I said earlier, I'm not really up on the protocol people on this forum are using for optimizing builds for items.  What's the rule-of-thumb for assessing item availability by level and overal resources by level for purchasing items to fill out a character?

I'm used to building characters up to 20, but I'd love to optimize him to be strong at whatever level he's played.  Any thoughts/recommendations in that regard are quite welcome.




The DMG has the rules for starting at a higher level.  To sum it up, you get an Item of (your level +1, your level, your level -1) and GP equal to an item of your level -1.  Usually this is turned into a pure-gold value on the CO forums, to simulate true levelling, but it doesn't have to be.

@Grey_Warden:  Thanks for the recommendations!  I'll definitely give these items serious consideration.

@Dielzen:   Ok, that makes a lot more sense.  I knew there must have been game rules somewhere that people were using.  Much appreciated.

This will take me a bit to process.  My goal will be to put together the standard levels 1-10, 11 summary, 12-20, 21 summary, 22-29, & 30 summary.

The one thing that seems to be sticking out at this point is he needs to be a bit more robust to survive mixing it up in melee.  I'll see what I can come up with and then post an update with my progress.
Another thing to consider (though it would cost a feat) is a staff of the traveler, which would turn your shifts into teleports.
Another thing to consider (though it would cost a feat) is a staff of the traveler, which would turn your shifts into teleports.


Thanks for noting that.  I'm not sure it's going to make it into my build given the feat cost, but I'll definitely give it serious consideration.
You know, if you have a couple feats to spare, you can spend one to multiclass Assassin and one to take Cursed Shadow (Dragon 385) and get Shadow Walk that way. It costs two feats (though you do get a bit of extra damage or a teleport once/encounter along the way) but it would let you take an actual paragon path. Heck, just being able to take Daggermaster would probably be worth it.

I've worked up similar builds purely to abuse Shadow Walk + Cunning Sneak. It's much cooler when you can do it in heroic tier, too.

Edit: You noted that under 'considerations'. Still, I think a good paragon path is worth two feats (and shadow step can be pretty useful in guaranteeing you combat advantage). At epic, getting 19-20 crits is pretty much a gold feat choice.  Using two to get 18-20 on most of your attacks seems like a given.
The first big decision-point appears to be a three-pronged one at the heroic level:

     a) Surprising Charge + Killing Curse:  This combination helps make our Eldritch Strike attack respectable as a component of the main trick for the character of provoking the catch-22 between hitting or missing us in an attack.

     b) Acolyte of the Veil + Cursed Shadow:  This combination would be very desirous as a means of freeing ourselves from the Paragon Hybrid paragon path and allowing us to choose instead something like the Daggermaster or Shadow Assassin paragon paths, which both have benefits from a striker perspective.  The Shadow Assassin path in particular has nice synchronicity with the White Lotus feats.

     c) Armor Proficiency (Hide):  This feat in particular is important as a means of (#1) belaying our inherent 'squishiness' by boosting our AC and providing a platform for magical armor and (#2) providing a platform much later on for selecting Great Cat (Feyhide or Darkhide) Armor +4, which adds another square to our shifting distance.

I'd be interested in hearing people's thoughts on this choice.  Are there perhaps items I could choose early on that would ease the pain of losing the feat(s) of choice 'A'?
I decided to at least go with the Hide Armor proficiency and gave my first stab at the array of item choices at levels 11 and 14 (I chose 14, since he'll gain Hide Armor Proficiency at that point).  Updates are included on the first post.
I don't think you can Stealth to hide off of Goblin Tactics or Acrobatic Strike. Cunning Sneak says "If you end a move action..." and neither of those are move actions.
I don't think you can Stealth to hide off of Goblin Tactics or Acrobatic Strike. Cunning Sneak says "If you end a move action..." and neither of those are move actions.

Actually, you can roll Stealth at the end of any Move Action or any of your Actions (even Free Actions) during which you move.  This usually also requires superior cover or total concealment, but in this case because of Cunning Sneak it's possible to do with only concealment.  The rules for stealth are fairly tricky.  I strongly recommend the following excellent guide put together by LordOfWeasels:

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

He's done an excellent job pulling it all together.  Anyone who wants to work with stealth should know about this guide.


Edit: I will note after reviewing the guide that it's not possible with Acrobatic Strike to gain hidden from the shift before the attack and then attack with CA, since you roll stealth at the end of the action (for this reason the same sequence wouldn't work with a charge).  You can however technically shift before the attack, attack and then still roll Stealth.  There was a lot of discussion on the Rules Q&A boards about stealthing and I think I just forgot this distinction amidst all the talk.

Hi


I've been toying around the same build concept myself, but with Changeling as the race (for different flavour). I am afraid that Outside Angel has a point. The wording of Cunning Sneak requiring a move action, as apposed to rolling stealth as part of a move per normal stealth rules, has been discussed much in other threads. Unfortuneatley (for us) it seems that the (general) concensus per todays wording is in our disfavour, also supported by CS ruling, i.e. you need to make a explicit move action (walk, run, etc.) for cunning sneak to trigger (as you needed for normal stealth before the update).


I don't intend to start a debate, you wanted to give you head ups that this issue has been discussed elsewhere (probably in the thread you referenced). There are of course also room for alternative (kinder!) interpretations of Cunning Sneak which I would happily support Smile


Hi


I've been toying around the same build concept myself, but with Changeling as the race (for different flavour). I am afraid that Outside Angel has a point. The wording of Cunning Sneak requiring a move action, as apposed to rolling stealth as part of a move per normal stealth rules, has been discussed much in other threads. Unfortuneatley (for us) it seems that the (general) concensus per todays wording is in our disfavour, also supported by CS ruling, i.e. you need to make a explicit move action (walk, run, etc.) for cunning sneak to trigger (as you needed for normal stealth before the update).


I don't intend to start a debate, you wanted to give you head ups that this issue has been discussed elsewhere (probably in the thread you referenced). There are of course also room for alternative (kinder!) interpretations of Cunning Sneak which I would happily support 


Damn it.  I'd forgotten this distinction on Cunning Sneak.  You're right - CS only works on a move action.  (curses...  argghhhhhhhh!!!!!).  I've known this before - dunno why it slipped my mind.

You can try exploring the Daring Acrobat rogue PP. It allows you to take further actions after a charge. So, let's say you charge (possibly a very long distance through various feats and items), you can then shift away as a move action after that and thus triggering Cunning Sneak if you shift far enough. A good feat here could be Improved Cunning Sneak that lets you roll stealth after just moving two squares.


Cheers

You can try exploring the Daring Acrobat rogue PP. It allows you to take further actions after a charge. So, let's say you charge (possibly a very long distance through various feats and items), you can then shift away as a move action after that and thus triggering Cunning Sneak if you shift far enough. A good feat here could be Improved Cunning Sneak that lets you roll stealth after just moving two squares.

Cheers



That's a great recommendation.  I'll definitely look into this.  I'd like to find a way to make this little goblin the best he can be

There's an epic Fighter feat that gives the same bonus as that PP. I don't think that PP would be worth it for that one not spectacular feature.

My planned tactics is as follows (char is Rogue|Warlock/Assassin, Cunning Sneak, Shadow Walk through Shadow Initiate+Cursed Shadow, Daring Acrobat PP):


- Minor action: Curse opponent


- Std action: Charge with rogue power (from more than three squares away). Through Shadow walk + Warlock Shadow armour I get concealment + CA. Can use rogue sneak attack. Shift one square away after charge with Boots of Adept charging.


- Move action: Teleport 3 squares to the other side of the opponent (Ethereal Sidestep extended range e.g. with Incisive Dagger). I am now placed behind the opponent and can roll stealth from Cunning Sneak.


After the last move action I am now hopfully hidden (if stealth succeeds). The opponent does not know where I am and has to do something different, e.g. move away to attack someone else perform a range attack. This trigger AoO with Eldritch Strike on which I can apply curse damage, thus applying both striker class extra damage in the same turn.


TIP: Ways to charge with rogue powers: Leaping Dagger Kick, Jumping Blade Assault, Wild Tumble Cat (from PP) and through various items, e.g. Rhino Bracers, Hawk's Talon Ki(see below)).


TIP2: Through the Shadow Initiate assassin MC you can use KI as implements (after the essentials rules update). This opens alternatives to warlock implements or light blade arcane implement if you want to hold other stuff in your hands and opens up for a useful item, the Hawk's Talon Ki.


This implementation is a slight departure from you original concept, but has the same core theme.

I like the idea of a Goblin Rogue. I don't like the Hybrid much at all. I also think Shadow Walk is way overrated.

Armor of Dark Deeds gives you concealment until EONT for attacking with CA, which I assume you'll be doing every single round, and negates the need for all these shenanigans.

I like the idea of a Goblin Rogue. I don't like the Hybrid much at all. I also think Shadow Walk is way overrated.

Armor of Dark Deeds gives you concealment until EONT for attacking with CA, which I assume you'll be doing every single round, and negates the need for all these shenanigans.


Armor of Dark Deeds is a 19th level item.  So according to the standard for reasonably avialable $$ mentioned earlier in this thread (value of 2 items of previous level, one item of current level and one item of the next level), the first time you could possibly afford this would be 15th level (spending nearly all your resources).

Using these "shenanigans" you can accomplish the charging rogue concept with Shadow Walk much earlier.  That's not a bad thing.  And as Frudy mentioned earlier, by MCing Assassin, you can gain Shadow Walk quite early.  Maybe it's personal preference, but I do like it.  Being able to carry concealment wherever you go as a rogue Cunning Sneak is huge in my book (and without having to depend on CA).

My planned tactics is as follows (char is Rogue|Warlock/Assassin, Cunning Sneak, Shadow Walk through Shadow Initiate+Cursed Shadow, Daring Acrobat PP):


- Minor action: Curse opponent


- Std action: Charge with rogue power (from more than three squares away). Through Shadow walk + Warlock Shadow armour I get concealment + CA. Can use rogue sneak attack. Shift one square away after charge with Boots of Adept charging.


- Move action: Teleport 3 squares to the other side of the opponent (Ethereal Sidestep extended range e.g. with Incisive Dagger). I am now placed behind the opponent and can roll stealth from Cunning Sneak.


After the last move action I am now hopfully hidden (if stealth succeeds). The opponent does not know where I am and has to do something different, e.g. move away to attack someone else perform a range attack. This trigger AoO with Eldritch Strike on which I can apply curse damage, thus applying both striker class extra damage in the same turn.


TIP: Ways to charge with rogue powers: Leaping Dagger Kick, Jumping Blade Assault, Wild Tumble Cat (from PP) and through various items, e.g. Rhino Bracers, Hawk's Talon Ki(see below)).


TIP2: Through the Shadow Initiate assassin MC you can use KI as implements (after the essentials rules update). This opens alternatives to warlock implements or light blade arcane implement if you want to hold other stuff in your hands and opens up for a useful item, the Hawk's Talon Ki.


This implementation is a slight departure from you original concept, but has the same core theme.



Good stuff Frudy.  Though I point out that with Acolyte of the Veil, you also get to use Assassin implements.  I like Shadow Step for this build over shrouds.

I like the idea of a Goblin Rogue. I don't like the Hybrid much at all. I also think Shadow Walk is way overrated.

Armor of Dark Deeds gives you concealment until EONT for attacking with CA, which I assume you'll be doing every single round, and negates the need for all these shenanigans.


Armor of Dark Deeds is a 19th level item.  So according to the standard for reasonably avialable $$ mentioned earlier in this thread (value of 2 items of previous level, one item of current level and one item of the next level), the first time you could possibly afford this would be 15th level (spending nearly all your resources).

Using these "shenanigans" you can accomplish the charging rogue concept with Shadow Walk much earlier.  That's not a bad thing.  And as Frudy mentioned earlier, by MCing Assassin, you can gain Shadow Walk quite early.  Maybe it's personal preference, but I do like it.  Being able to carry concealment wherever you go as a rogue Cunning Sneak is huge in my book (and without having to depend on CA).



Armor of Dark Deeds is a 14th level item.
Actually, with Boots of Adept Charging, it just 'allows' you to shift 1 after charging.  With your Daring Acrobat PP, you can already do that.  I don't believe it gives you a free action shift after your charge.

Armor of Dark Deeds is a 14th level item.


You know what, you're totally right.  I must have clicked on the wrong link when I looked it up in the Compendium.  Ok, that makes more sense now.
 
Good stuff Frudy.  Though I point out that with Acolyte of the Veil, you also get to use Assassin implements.  I like Shadow Step for this build over shrouds.



True, but if you have at-will teleport through Ethereal Sidestep that kind of covers it.



Actually, with Boots of Adept Charging, it just 'allows' you to shift 1 after charging.  With your Daring Acrobat PP, you can already do that.  I don't believe it gives you a free action shift after your charge.


You might have a point there, but I read it as you get the shift for free (that was the assumption). Still probably something that should be examined closer.



After the last move action I am now hopfully hidden (if stealth succeeds). The opponent does not know where I am and has to do something different, e.g. move away to attack someone else perform a range attack. This trigger AoO with Eldritch Strike on which I can apply curse damage, thus applying both striker class extra damage in the same turn.


Actually, while he technically doesn't know your position after you hide, he does know where you were before you became hidden (ie. the square you teleported to).  Your opponent can still attack that square (though still at a -5 to hit you) as a strong educated guess.  He can also 'bump' it by attempting to move into the square to 'un-hide' you, though that will provoke an AO from you.
 
Good stuff Frudy.  Though I point out that with Acolyte of the Veil, you also get to use Assassin implements.  I like Shadow Step for this build over shrouds.



True, but if you have at-will teleport through Ethereal Sidestep that kind of covers it.


Ah, good point there.

I like the idea of a Goblin Rogue. I don't like the Hybrid much at all. I also think Shadow Walk is way overrated.

Armor of Dark Deeds gives you concealment until EONT for attacking with CA, which I assume you'll be doing every single round, and negates the need for all these shenanigans.



Personally I love hybrids and characters that need some thought and tactics to set up correctly and a bit of shenaningWink. My preference.

Personally I love hybrids and characters that need some thought and tactics to set up correctly and a bit of shenaningWink. My preference.


Ditto. ;)

Edit:  You may be right on Boots of Adept Charging.  Looking at it the first time, it just seemed to me that it wasn't explicitly giving you a new action, but just breaking the Charge limitation on subsequent actions for this one case.  Looking at it again, I can see it read either way.  I posted a Q on the Q&A forums just to see what those guys thought.

I like the idea of a Goblin Rogue. I don't like the Hybrid much at all. I also think Shadow Walk is way overrated.

Armor of Dark Deeds gives you concealment until EONT for attacking with CA, which I assume you'll be doing every single round, and negates the need for all these shenanigans.



Personally I love hybrids and characters that need some thought and tactics to set up correctly and a bit of shenaning. My preference.




Thats a good enough reason for me.
Updated Black Fly to Daring Acrobat paragon path and included fully-fleshed out builds for levels 11 and 21.  I'd enjoy hearing what people think of these now that they're posted.  I expect to probably include a few other build strategies for comparison at a later time.
The build seems pretty solid, except for this part:


  (4) At the end of his turn, he's hopefully hidden (if his stealth succeeds).  If his opponent
        attacks his square with a melee attack, he'll benefit from total concealment (-5 to the
        attack).  If his opponent attempts to move into his square or away from him, he'll gain an
        attack of opportunity, with which he can use Eldritch Strike and apply his curse damage -
        thus applying both striker class extra damage features in the same round.



What's stopping the opponent from attempting to shift into your square to auto-unhide you, then hitting you now that you no longer have total concealment? He knows what square you were in last when you became hidden, and you don't have the option to move after the shift is over.

--S
The build seems pretty solid, except for this part:


  (4) At the end of his turn, he's hopefully hidden (if his stealth succeeds).  If his opponent
        attacks his square with a melee attack, he'll benefit from total concealment (-5 to the
        attack).  If his opponent attempts to move into his square or away from him, he'll gain an
        attack of opportunity, with which he can use Eldritch Strike and apply his curse damage -
        thus applying both striker class extra damage features in the same round.



What's stopping the opponent from attempting to shift into your square to auto-unhide you, then hitting you now that you no longer have total concealment? He knows what square you were in last when you became hidden, and you don't have the option to move after the shift is over.

--S


Excellent point.  Though I think all we need to do to avoid that is teleport to a spot at least two squares distant from our opponent so we avoid him shifting in.  I'll take this into consideration and review my item choices...
I think I'll keep the items as-is for now.  I believe the Boots of Adept Charging + Incisive Dagger still go along well with the mobility theme to help position him for whatever he plans in the next round.
The build seems pretty solid, except for this part:


  (4) At the end of his turn, he's hopefully hidden (if his stealth succeeds).  If his opponent
        attacks his square with a melee attack, he'll benefit from total concealment (-5 to the
        attack).  If his opponent attempts to move into his square or away from him, he'll gain an
        attack of opportunity, with which he can use Eldritch Strike and apply his curse damage -
        thus applying both striker class extra damage features in the same round.



What's stopping the opponent from attempting to shift into your square to auto-unhide you, then hitting you now that you no longer have total concealment? He knows what square you were in last when you became hidden, and you don't have the option to move after the shift is over.

--S


I see your point, but if you teleport from a square (or two squares if you have shiftet back one square after the charge) in front of the opponent to a square behind the opponent and become hidden as part of that process - is it given that the opponent knows where you are?


I see your point, but if you teleport from a square (or two squares if you have shiftet back one square after the charge) in front of the opponent to a square behind the opponent and become hidden as part of that process - is it given that the opponent knows where you are?




You do not become hidden until the *end* of your move. Up until that point, every enemy and ally knows exactly where you are at all times, even if you are invisible (not inaudible, leaving footprints, etc.). Once you become Hidden, the enemy no longer knows what square you're currently in, and only knows what square you were in last before you became hidden. However, if you do not *move* from the last square you were in, it stands to reason that the first place the enemy would try to expose you is the last square that it knew you were in.

--S

I see your point, but if you teleport from a square (or two squares if you have shiftet back one square after the charge) in front of the opponent to a square behind the opponent and become hidden as part of that process - is it given that the opponent knows where you are?




You do not become hidden until the *end* of your move. Up until that point, every enemy and ally knows exactly where you are at all times, even if you are invisible (not inaudible, leaving footprints, etc.). Once you become Hidden, the enemy no longer knows what square you're currently in, and only knows what square you were in last before you became hidden. However, if you do not *move* from the last square you were in, it stands to reason that the first place the enemy would try to expose you is the last square that it knew you were in.

--S


Well, if you teleport from square A to square B and make a stealth check to become hidden (and succeeds) at the end of that movement I would still argue that it would be hard for the opponent to know where you've gone (assuming that you are not detectable during the teleport itself). 


You could perhaps reason that you first make the teleport to square B, become visible there, and then make the stealth check.


I would accept the former interpretation, but I might be biased Wink

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