[Development]Big Red

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What is Big Red:

Big Red was a control deck developed during the Onslaught/Mirrodin Standard.  Using heavy amounts of burn and board sweepers it would strive to control the board, before dropping a large finisher (such as Arc-Slogger) and ride it to victory.

Now with the re-visit of Mirrodin, as well as the re-introduction of Lightning Bolt to Type 2, it seems like now is a very good time for Big Red to make a return.  Red's new Planeswalker Koth of the Hammer really helps to fashion a list that can ramp out a nice bomb quickly while keeping control of the field, thanks to his -2 Ritual ability.  Koth's sure to cause people headaches when he gets teamed up with his "little buddy" Kargan Dragonlord.

In the current environment, Big Red, while having it's roots in being a Control Deck, has evolved into a Mid-Range Deck.  Able to shift between playing the part of the Aggro Deck and the Control Deck, depending on what it's needed to at during the current game state.  I guess you could call Big Red a Mid-Range Aggro-Control Deck.  This is all thanks to the flexible card pool available to us.


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Goal of the Thread:

With luck this thread can be used as a place to refine Big Red lists to produce at least one list that can make a respectable showing at a major event.  As a side effect, this thread can act as a place for people who wish to run Red-based control lists to discuss cards/strategies/builds, without taking up multiple threads or by side tracking other Red deck threads, such as the Tournament Centers RDW thread, as RDW is traditionally a high power aggro deck.


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Why play Big Red

Red decks in practice are traditionally on the cheaper side to construct, and burn has the powerful ability to not only act as creature control, but win you the game as well.  Big Red as the benefit of catching people off guard as people simply don't expect to see a Red Deck so flexible.  Big Red is sure to take your meta by surprise.  And thanks to our flexible card pool, we have an excellent game VS a large portion of Rogue Decks, as well as supporting solid match ups VS the "Tier 1" lists, with some exceptions where the game can be decided solely on who won game 1.


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The Cards

Win Conditions

Creatures:

1 cmc

Dragonmaster Outcast : Ok as a 1 of, this 1-drop can give you some serious Dragon air-support starting around turn 7 on.  By then the other deck should have exhausted themselves trying to deal with all your other bombs that they can't deal with your free dragons every turn.

Goblin Guide : the best turn 1 play red has for aggressive beats.  He can be used to start appliing pressure early and often, while you continue to control the board.  Really good in the Ramp match ups.

Slag Fiend : Let's face it, Scars of Mirrodin block cares about artifacts a lot.  There are Swords that need to be broken, Bombs going off and all sorts of artifical creatures running around.  All these will eventually start cluttering the 'yards.  This makes this guy solid as a 2-of because he is in no way a turn 1 play.

2 cmc

Kargan Dragonlord : With his low cmc, you can drop him early (like you'd want to VS control decks) and Koth can ramp him up quick to become a serious threat able to finish the game in 2 good swings.  Even without Koth, he levels quickly.  Definite staple as he lets us start appling early pressure in the face for mana-ramp decks like Valakut and MGE.

Ember Hauler : a fine 2/2 for 2 who at a moment's notice only asks for 1 mana to suddenly turn himself into a Shock.  Can defninitly be a threat, but you need to have a very aggressive creature suite to maximize on him, which means focusing less on the powerful late game bombs beyond 4 cmc.  In short, running him means you're walking the thin line between RDW and Big Red.

3 cmc

Goblin Ruinblaster : a sudo-4-drop.  A 2/1 haste can occassionally come in handy, but blowing up a non-basic on turn 4 is solid.

4 cmc

Lord of Shatterskull Pass : A decent beater, that after 1 level up is out of burn range for the most part, and he can be a turn 5 attacking 6/6 VS control.  He's an all star VS aggro since at level 6 he acts as a 1 sided board wipe when ever he attacks.

Molten-Tail Masticore : Very tech.  He regens, and can turn your previously fallen creatures into 4 damage to what ever you need to.  If you have a grip full of creatures, you can use them to keep him around and get that  damage every turn.  He's great to dodge and remove the pro-Red Kor Firewalker.

Obsidian Fireheart : a nice 4/4 for 4 with a mana sink ability that slowly helps to rack on damage every turn.  What's more, his ability stays in effect even after he gets sent to the 'yard.  The ability to get 3+ damage every turn for a 1 card investment can be a powerful thing, even with less than 3 a turn, it starts to add up.

Cyclops Gladiator : a nice 4/4 for 4 with the ability to drag a creature into the Arena when ever it attacks, which can help diminish the oppositions forces.  Like LoSP, it's an offensive defense.  But unlike LoSP, it's only a 4 mana investment, and only 1 creature at a time.

5 cmc

Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs : a 5/4 for 5 that makes the perfect defender since the other deck has to shell out 3 mana for each attack unless they want to give you a free 3/3.  Protect yourself and your Planeswalkers while at the same time building up a small army so you can start alpha striking yourself should the mood strike you.  Great for giving weenie decks pause.

Kuldotha Phoenix : a 4/4 haste, flyer that rises back up with Metalcraft.  He's sure to eat the oppositions removal until they just don't have it left.

Urabrask the Hidden : 5 mana 4/4 with haste (and hastens your team) is solid, but the fact that he also taps down all new creatures for a turn is realy powerful.  He single handedly shuts down "Pester Twin" Combo since their infinite creatures can't attack.  He's legendary, so it does hurt him a bit, but he seems like a solid creature all around.

Batterskull : a 4/4 lifelink, vigulate creature.  Not bad, and you can pay to have it dodge removal.  What's this?  It's actually an equipment that has living weapon?  So if the creature dies....something like Inferno Titan can pick it up later?  And if you run out of creatures...you just bounce it and get that 0/0 Germ back....

6 cmc

Wurmcoil Engine : a nice beater with useful keyword abilities that, when he dies, divides into 2 creatures that between them, have the same power and abilities.

Inferno Titan : A 6/6 that has 3 damage to divy up when he comes in, and when ever he attacks is nothing to scoff at.  He can wrap things up quickly, and help you shoot down enemy creatures.

Moltensteel Dragon : 4/4 firebreathing, flyer for 6 really isn't that impressive.  Presenting Phyrexian mana.  For the low cost of 4 life, this guy now costs you only and he even can use your life to firebreath as well.  Being an artifact, he's immune to the popular Go for the Throat.  Timed right, this guy should be able to end games in 1 good shot.


Planeswalkers:

Chandra Nalaar : A solid Red Planeswalker, able to ping to build up, or just strait up down a threat for no mana (though it may cost her her life).  Her Ult. not only deals an impressive 10 damage, but sweeps the other player's board keeping them off a counter attack.

Koth of the Hammer : Tech, and really the linch pin of the deck.  He does it all.  Provides aggro power, ramps and can give you an endgame (involving colorless damage).  Staple for Big Red.

Karn Liberated : The first colorless Planeswalker.  He's pretty solid.  Exile cards from their hand to give us some sudo-discard as well as adding a nice 4 loyalty.  Or remove 3 loyalty and you can Exile any permanent that's causing you trouble.  And if by chance you can go Ult with him, you can either drag the game to time, or you're assured a quick win if you Exiled a nice fat bomb earlier. Being 7 mana kind of hurts him, so being a 1 or 2 of is probably as high as his count should go.


Burn

1 cmc

Lightning Bolt : staple Red burn spell. 3 damage for 1 mana is the base line.

Flame Slash : This is Red's "Kill Spell" most of the time. 4 damage to a creature for 1 mana.  Solid, but leaves a bad taste if you want to hit them for the finish.

Burst Lightning : solid burn.  2 damage for 1 mana OR 4 damage for 5 mana.  Kind of a bad scale, but it gets the job done and has value both early and late game, which is great.

Galvanic Blast : In most decks it's just a fancy Shock, but with Metalcraft, it can become a great 4 damage for 1 mana, with no restrictions.

Forked Bolt : 2 damage for 1 used to be the standard for a long while, but this can 2-for-1 weenie decks, gaining you Card Advantage, which is what wins games most of the time.

2 cmc

Searing Blaze : Solid burn that also fries their face.  It as it's moments, both good and bad.

Arc Trail : pretty solid for a Sorcery.  2 damage to 1 target and 1 damage to a different target.  Great for generating CA on weenie decks.  Remember though, in order to target a Planeswalker you have to target the player first, then redirect the damage to the Planeswalker, so you can't hit both a player and a Planeswalker they control with it (or hit 2 Planeswalkers 1 Player controls).

3 cmc

Staggershock : Pretty good burn.  2 damage, then 2 more damage for free next turn.

Volt Charge : 3 damage for 3 mana.  Weaker when compared to Staggershock, but Proliferate is solid, which can enable Planeswalkers to go Ult quicker, or powers up Magnets, Chalices and Spheres. Definitly worth a looking at.

4 cmc

Chandra's Outrage : Solid burn.  4 damage to a creature for 4 mana, with an added bonus of 2 damage to their face.

Artillerize : 5 damage for 4 mana + an artifact or creature.  Pretty good finisher, or as a MD answer to the less popular (than it was) BSA.

X spells

Fireball : With Koth's Ritual ability you can make a big X early.  This is scalable spot removal, or a nice finisher when you need it to be.

Comet Storm : Pretty much Fireball, only you pay 1 more so you can use it as an instant, and you can't really use Koth to help it on their turn.  However, this can be an easy make shift one sided sweeper since rather than evenly distribute damage between targets, it strait up deals X damage to each of them, hence it's "Mythic" status.  That flexibility can have a high value in certain metas.  Just something to keep in mind.

Red Sun's Zenith : solid as a 1-of or 2-of.  Scalable removal is good, and since it both exiles those Bloodghasts and Vengevines AND shuffles itself back in it's a good way to generate some sudo-CA.


Sweepers

Ratchet Bomb : Very scalable, and costs very little, but it works both ways.  If you're not careful, you can do just as much damage to yourself as you do to them.  Best used to fight off weenie decks with lots of 1 and 2 cmc creatures.  This does act as a way for Red to deal with enchantments for a low mana investment.  And lets not forget tokens (unless they're copies of cards) have a cmc of 0.

Pyroclasm : very basic sweeper for blowing out weenie decks.

Slagstorm : Upgraded Pyroclasm, but it can also get pointed at Players / Planeswalkers.

Chain Reaction : the more creatures, the more damage meaning you can hit fatties if they also have a few weenies still around to help up the damage.  This is the "new" Earthquake.

All is Dust : The end all sweeper.  Blows up everything with a color.  Finish off a Koth to ramp into it, then play a new Koth and start up a nice aggro beating.  It really can turn the game around in a hurry.

Tech

Card Advantage / Card Quality

Crystal Ball : helps to improve the quality of your draws.

Temple Bell : card draw, with the draw back of your opponent getting them too.

Tezzeret's Gambit : 3 mana and 2 life (because it's not Big Red if you splash , and you can draw 2 cards and proliferate.  You could do worse for classic CA.

Removal

Lux Cannon : a nice Cannon to blow up 1 annoying thing every 4 turns (3 to charge, 1 to fire).  This answers something we normally have no way to deal with, enchantments.

Combust : hate for those White / Blue fatties.

Brittle Effigy : solid removal.

Tower of Calamities : Pretty much assured to kill any creature in standard.  12 colorless damage is a lot.

Cunning Sparkmage : a classic combo piece for Basilisk Collar that is assured to blow up bombs with a simple tap.  Some builds may rather run Spikeshot Elder.

Dismember : 1 mana and 4 life to pretty much kill any real threat with it's -5/-5.  Since it's black, it laughs at Pro-Red.

Shrine of Burning Rage : not bad.  Surves the same basic role as Chandra (in that it can be used to off Titans) and it charges itself every turn + when ever we play a Red spell.  Add in some light proliferate and we're looking at some huge damage.  And it's colorless damage so it offs Pro-Red, which is nice since there's that Sword running around out there now.

VS Fog / Lifegain

Leyline of Punishment : Good VS lifegain and damage prevention

Unstable Footing : fights fog and can be an instant 5 damage for 5, that can't be prevented.

Soul Conduit : So they gained huge ammounts of life, now you can ignore it, while they knock you down, then in a second turn the tables on them.  It's fun, and I wouldn't run more than 1.

Lifegain

Elixir of Immortality : card recycler, and can give you a life buffer VS aggro.

Basilisk Collar : gain life with every attack, and garenteed to kill a creature (Pro-Red excluded) that gets hit by it.

VS Artifacts

Manic Vandal : blows up artifacts and sticks around to attack / block.

Shatter : basic artifact hate.

Crush : solid 1 cmc answer to blowing up non-creature artifacts.

Ramp / Hitting your land drops

Pilgrim's Eye : good to help you hit your land drops.

Everflowing Chalice : a nice way to get Koth online turn 3, and it sticks around to help you ramp.

Iron Myr : Helps to get the ideal turn 3 Koth, and he even produces red mana.  However, he's fragile and makes it easier for decks with spot removal to keep you off those great turn 3 plays.  He has a few other siblings, but he's really all you need.

Sphere of the Suns : now with a second 2 cmc mana stone, hitting turn 3 4-drops becomes very reliable, and since this produced colored mana, it makes hitting Cyclops mana easier while running something like Tectonic Edge in the MD as well.  It's got a limited amount of uses, so use if sparingly.

VS Ramp

Goblin Ruinblaster : 2/1 haste for 3, that you kick to set them back a non-basic land

Tunnel Ignus : a 2/1 for 2 that punishes fetch lands and land based mana-ramp.

Invader Parasite : a 3/2 for 5, that can exile a land.  However, it remembers that land, and hurts the other player every time it sees that land show up on their side of the field.  Normally is would only hurt them 3 times at most, because they can only have 4 of any 1 non-basic land, BUT this guy can hate on BASIC lands.  Which means his damage out put just sky rocketed.

Other

Voltaic Key : to multi use artifacts with tap abilities each turn.  Every good machine needs a Key to start it running.

Battle Rampart : an ok Wall that can give your bomb haste for a turn, helping you keep a faster clock.

Nihil Spellbomb : Graveyard hate.

Ember Hauler : Pretty much a solid multi-purpose guy.  Beats early as a bear, and turns into a Shock if you need him to.  He's not great, but he works well if you want to run Masticores, since then you can spend 5 mana to deal 6 damage.

Mimic Vat : "Bomb in a Box".  Suck in the best creature in play and start swinging with it every turn for the low price of 3 mana.  And if you use this on the opponent's EoT you can have 2 Vat tokens for a turn.  Or you can just fight other Vats, remember, the active player gets priority first, but if both player's have a Vat out, the non-active player can opt to suck a creature into the Vat first, since their Vat's trigger is on top of the active player's.

Contagion Clasp : 2 mana to put a -1/-1 counter on a creature, and 4 mana to Proliferate.  Good for charging up Planeswalkers, Level Up creatures, Chalices, or Lux Cannon's.

Contagion Engine : 6 mana to put -1/-1 counters on each creature your opponent has, this I'll let you kill Shroud creatures pretty easily.  The 4 mana for double Proliferation quickly charges up your stuff, and wipes the other players board.

Ricochet Trap : Counter Magic got you down?  This trap triggers off of a single counter spell being played, and you can use it to re-route that counter to the Trap.  As an added bonus, you can bring it in VS decks packing Corrupt or any other nasty spell like Mind Sludge and turn the tables on them.

Phyrexian Revoker : an average 2/1 for 2, but he can shut down activated abilities.  It's no Pithing Needle, but turning off a Jace 2.0 or other powerful activated ability has value none the less, and this guy can keep up the pressure.

Hex Parasite : it's no Needle, but it's a 1/1 for 1, that you can use to remove counters off any permenant.  And it buffs itself for a while for each counter it gets to snack on.  Used with Ratchet Bomb on you have a way to dial into a spicific mana cost and have a buffed beater.  It costs 2 life for us to even remove 0 counters from something though, so please, use sparingly.


Isolation Cell : Un-needed hate for Aggro, but combined with some sweeping and LD, this can be your Win-Condition VS Aggro.  The mana cost for it hurts it's effectiveness.

Norn's Annex : 3 mana and 4 life for a Prison effect.  Holds swarms at bay, least they loose lots of life, but it's less effective VS something like WWQuest since they can pay rather than the 2 life.  Don't be fooled if someone teams this up with Gideon Jura.  His + ability combined with this does nothing really.  If just means if you want a creature to attack, it has to attack Gideon, and you'll have to pay 2 life per creature.  Gideon can not force you to pay 2 life per creature just to have your team swing at him.

Torpor Orb : I'll catch a lot of slack for suggesting this, but it's nice tech in my opinion.  It shuts down a lot of annoying CiP abilities.  It hurts the CA from Hawks, shuts down the main reason for running Mystic, slows down Titans, turns off the "Pester Twin" combo.  Now, the main reason for using this makes it hard, since you have to be on the play to reall shut down Caw-Blade, but for 2 mana, I think it makes for some solid MD distuption, I liken it to Damping Matrix in the original Mirrodin Standard Big Red.

Make sure to keep me posted if you find any more Tech.




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Playing the Deck

Koth is ultimately our endgame spell.  VS Some types of Aggro all he really needs to do is ramp out an Inferno Titan, since Titan can quickly shutdown most Aggro stratiges when backup with some burn.  However, if you can get Koth's emblem, it's very hard at that point for us to lose.  Repeatable, colorless removal that also can go for your opponent's face.  And making it impossible to counter is all the more sweeter.

The basic game plan folds out into a few simple stages.

Stage 1:
Try to gain board control.  Using light burn and other tech you're trying to cripple the other deck.  By the end of this stage you should have control over the field.

Stage 2:
Stablize, and press the advantage.  By now most Aggro decks are out of steam, so stablizing is easy.  As for Control and Ramp decks, well they're either about to go off, or are still going strong.  This is the time to start dropping your threats and working to set up your endgame.  Be it a Koth, Titan, or some other big finish.  This is the most crucial stage since once you're endgame is set up, it should only be 1 or 2 turns before the games done.

Stage 3:
Endgame.  Finish them off with your big guns.  Koth's Emblem, Titans, or any other big threat you're running.  This can be built up over the entire game if you're running creature heavy, or just all at once if you're a little light.  Either way, at this point we're pretty much out of gas, and we really need that 1 solid threat to carry us the rest of the way.  Save what creatures and burn you do have for only the most dire of circumstances in order to increase your longevity in case they find an out. 


Rough Shell

Creatures:
2 Inferno Titan
slots left: 6 to 14

Spells:
4 Koth of the Hammer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Volt Charge
2 Torpor Orb
slots left: 6 to 14

Lands:
19 Mountains
slots left: 4 to 7

Big Red is becoming first and foremost a Meta deck, one that is naturally disposed to beating the tar out of Aggro decks.  As such, the majority of the deck depends on what you expect to see.  Not all choices in the shell may be right for all meta.  Orb is a prime example of that.  However, due note that Koth, Lightning Bolt, and to a lesser extent Inferno Titan are really what makes this deck tick.


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Lists

Big Red, by Mike Stewart took First Place at States: Nevada
Creatures:
2 Inferno Titan
4 Iron Myr
2 Molten-Tail Masticore
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Cunning Sparkmage
4 Goblin Guide

Spells:
2 Basilisk Collar
4 Everflowing Chalice
2 Flame Slash
4 Koth of the Hammer
4 Lightning Bolt

Lands:
24 Mountain

Sideboard:
4 Manic Vandal
3 Pyroclasm
3 Contagion Clasp
4 Tunnel Ignus
1 Ratchet Bomb

Big Red, by John Thorson took Third-Fourth Place at States: New Hampshire
Creatures:
2 Cunning Sparkmage
4 Ember Hauler
2 Goblin Ruinblaster
1 Hoarding Dragon
3 Inferno Titan
4 Kargan Dragonlord
2 Magma Phoenix
2 Molten-Tail Masticore
1 Spikeshot Elder

Spells:
2 Chandra Nalaar
4 Koth of the Hammer
3 Basilisk Collar
1 Comet Storm
4 Lightning Bolt
Land:
25 Mountain

Sideboard:
1 Arc Trail
1 Chain Reaction
2 Chandra Ablaze
1 Melt Terrain
4 Pyroclasm
2 Reverberate
4 Roiling Terrain

Big Red, by Anubuss, Third Place at a WPN National Qualifier, May 1, 2011
Creatures:
4 Kargan Dragonlord
4 Cyclops Gladiator
3 Goblin Ruinblaster
3 Inferno Titian

Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Burst Lightning
3 Slagstorm
4 Koth of the Hammer
2 Chandra Nalaar
2 Red Sun's Zenith
3 Everflowing Chalice

Lands:
4 Tectonic Edge 
20 Mountain

Sideboard:
3 Brifftle Effigy
1 Goblin Ruinblaster
3 Ratchet Bomb
4 Tunnel Ignus
4 Shatter

Other lists that did well can be found here on DeckCheck:
deckcheck.org/?x=8QRffj1h8QerWVF3erDB0YR...



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Match Ups

To come as I get testing in, hopefully with the help of other Forum users and Tournament Results

*to return after the meta is finished reshaping itself.*

Anticipated Match Ups:

Control:

Caw-Blade
Dark-Blade
Control
Control


Combo:

Twin-Combo
Valakut
MGE
Pyro-Ascension


Aggro:

RDW
Moxblins (Kred)
Boros
Elves
/x Vengevine



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*all user created lists are welcomed to be added to the OP, merely send me your list via PM
**Thanks to Hodoku for the sweet boarders.
**Thanks to 4Tens for the amazing banner.

My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
make sure to credit eats_mortals for coming up with this deck idea.

thank you, eats_mortals. 
make sure to credit eats_mortals for coming up with this deck idea.

thank you, eats_mortals. 

Was not originally made by Eater of Mortals, as said above it is an older deck type that  is trying to be ressurected. Also his list was basically a Copy paste from another website...


EDIT:

To actually be constructive, I would like to try to find a way for Chandra Ablaze to come in here. By the time you can use her Ultimate, she should be able to end games with it going off.  Enough Burn should be in the grave. Bring back those lightning bolts you used earlier and then fire off koth to go for game with a comet storm or fireball. Not the best strategy, but definitely seem like one that can be figured out.
I Agree with Indigo IMAGE(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q223/Bigbadmamajama/noheroescopy.jpg) ^^ WIP atm, if you can name the song its from, I will love you forever. That is me
Eater may be the first person to post a list for this archetype, but he hardly came up with this deck idea.  It was originally created (as previously mentioned) back in the Onslaught/Mirrodin Standard.  And as far as I know, Matt Nass was the first person to post a Big Red list for this Standard season.

But I will thank anyone that comes here and contributes to the Big Red discussion.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Anubus check my post above edited in some on topic stuff.  I am trying to think of possible smaller creatures you could use to be able to help counter Aggro decks in early game if they start to go off. Battle Ramparts could be considered. Cheap wall, give your bomb haste the turn you drop it.
I Agree with Indigo IMAGE(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q223/Bigbadmamajama/noheroescopy.jpg) ^^ WIP atm, if you can name the song its from, I will love you forever. That is me
I really don't know about Chandra Ablaze.  Building her up costs cards, and I can't think of anything I'd want to pitch to her.  Yes, after I hit 6 mana I can turn Bolts into 4 damage for 0 mana, but ideally by the time I hit 6 mana I have control of the field.  For exampe in my list if I ramped out and dropped Steel Hellkite, next turn I can swing, then use his ability to blow up their most dominant cmc.

As far as being VS aggro goes, I don't think a Wall is needed.  I've been testing VS my Sligh lists, and I can fairly reliably stabilize at around 8 life as is, and from there I take a pretty commanding lead as I start eating into their life total.  I'd think Pyroclasm or some other sweeper from the board (or even fitted into the MD) should be more than enough help VS aggro. 

I will keep it in mind though.  Thanks for the input BeatusNox.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
The main reason I had suggested the wall was more for the ability than to be used as a blocker. It just feels that dropping your bomb and swinging the turn it is played just make it a drop a little better. This is all just for speculation and theorycrafting. I am thinking though that if you want to play a build with chandra you would have to almost build around her =/
I Agree with Indigo IMAGE(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q223/Bigbadmamajama/noheroescopy.jpg) ^^ WIP atm, if you can name the song its from, I will love you forever. That is me
I don't know, you probably wouldn't have to build around her, but the deck would be more effective when you used her Ult. if you did build around her.  If there's one thing I try to keep to though (drilled into me from almost always playing a Sligh deck) is that the deck is what's important, not a specific card.  As such I try not to build around cards.

And back to the topic of Battle Rampart, I don't think his 1/3 body could hold up to it.  While giving your bomb haste is nice, and gives you a faster clock, a lot of the bombs are out of reach of most removal, and the wall is just going to telegraph that something big is probably coming, meaning the other deck is likely to hold onto their Doom Blade / Mana Leak / Journey to Nowhere / etc.. so that when you drop your bomb they're already waiting for it.  But then again, you might be onto something with it.  Feel free to test it out and see how it runs, I'd love to hear about it.  I'll see if I can tune my list to make room for some as well, to test it for myself.  I'm already trying to work in 2 or 3 Masticore (since 4 colorless damage can deal with a lot) and maybe even some Pilgrim's Eyes (so I can consistently hit land drops).

I'd also like to work in a MD Sweeper, other than a max'd LoSP attacking, just so I can get immediate results.  Too bad Earthquake is leaving, just as I would want them around.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Rampart can also draw removal which is why I am trying to fit him into my list. Pyroclasm is the only one I can think of that would be a good  mainboard but it is not really strong enough either. If you want to mainboard one of the stronger Sweeps I would put in Radius, It doesnt screw your bomb drop over.  Maybe drop one Chalice and one Kargan for two of the Radius =/ I really don't know at this point.
I Agree with Indigo IMAGE(http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q223/Bigbadmamajama/noheroescopy.jpg) ^^ WIP atm, if you can name the song its from, I will love you forever. That is me
I actually am working on Chain Reaction being my MD sweeper of choice, or possible Destructive Force.  Chain Reaction has the appeal to wipe out hoards of creatures, hitting higher toughness creatures, and Destructive Force as the appeal of being a nice board wipe for 5 and blowing the other deck off tempo by the forcing of the 5 land sac.  Since I can play Destructive Force on my 5th turn, before my land drop (thanks to Koth) it can be very destructive, and as such, is the Sweeper I'm leaning towards, but only testing will tell.  My big issue is what to cut to make the room.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Chandra Ablaze + Temple Bell?  Additionally, Searing Blaze isn't awful as a quasi-sorcery, it's still a double Volcanic Hammer with which you can F up their S during your combat step.
I'm hesitant to try out Temple Bell.  Crystal Ball has been great for me.  Manipulating my top card just seems better for a control deck rather than just giving each player a free card.  Plus, between burning and dropping a bomb, I usually have the mana open anyway.

I know Searing Blaze is a solid burn spell, but I don't know if it's a good fit.  Burst and Blast each can be 4 points to the dome late game after I have control, Searing Blaze, if I have control of the board, usually is just dead because there's no creature to point it at.  That limited use of it is partly the reason I left it out of the burn section.  The other part simply is that Leyline of Sanctity makes it strait up dead.

But other builds maybe able to use it better than mine does, so I'll add it in.  Thanks for the input tehbeast.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Anytime.  And I'd use the Bell with the Ball.
Both?  I don't know, that's a lot of room.  Every list I come up with gets tight in a hurry.  I just can't devote room to use both in a usable number.  Even a 2-2 split is hard since it's hard to dig up a 2-of.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
First off thanks for creating this thread Anubuss. Secondly i'm in. This type of deck is something i've had in mind since koth got spoiled. The direction i'd like to go with it revolves around basilisk collar.

I'd like to have sparkmage, cyclops gladiator, masticore, and inferno titan each of them awesome when suited up with collar. Koth obviously and Dragonlord too supported by the best of the burn spells.

Think this kind of build has got legs or not?
Well, Collar + Sparkmage does make for a nice removal package, and Titian is nutz with a Collar.

I don't know about the Cyclops in all that, but I would think the build could look pretty good. 

I'd say we'd be able to hammer out a list.

Thanks for joining in Devell. 
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Glad to be here!

I know the gladiator is the weakest of the creatures i've listed but my thinking is this; Dropping Koth and using his -2 ability to drop either a masticore or a gladiator seems like an incredibly strong play. Not only does it protect our walker if needs be but provides a pretty potent aggresive option capable of beating face and being creture removal at the same time. Throw a collar into the mix and things start looking a little silly.

 Masticore obviously speaks for itself but I feel like gladiator needs a little defending. Even without the collar he knocks down a wall of omens and takes out jace in the same swing. With a collar he takes out any one potential blocker nets you 8 life and beats face for 4. Seems strong to me. I just think its important to get a 4 drop down on the same turn as Koth and I don't think there could be any better options then gladiator and masticore for a build of this type.

Feel free to dissect my comments.
Yeah, I figured you'd be using him like that.  The problem is Big Red is a control build, and the only way you're going to use Cyclops for defense is to swing every turn with it so you know you're killing their biggest guy each turn.  Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs is a bit better for that role.  You get a 5/4 and 3/3s when ever they swing and can't/don't pay to stop you.  That can fog for Koth all day long.  Ideally, you would have plopped down a Chalice to get Koth down on turn 3 and maybe got a quick lick in on them for 4.  That early with burn for turn 1 (and maybe on turn 3 instead of the swing), you shouldn't need to defend him too badly at that point, which would make Kazuul a beast on turn 4 in addition to either building up Koth or ramping out a 4-drop (or just giving Kazuul the Collar and burning a blocker so you can swing).

I'm definitely adding Kazuul to the bomb list.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Since Gladiator is being talked about, I figure I'll link to the Red Control list that FrankyFourFingers made about a month ago:




I liked the list enough to remember it, though yes, I agree with Anubuss's arguments against Searing Blaze and Gladiator. I don't much like Manticore myself, but I can see how it has its uses.

Here's to hoping that Big Red (or at least Red in general) can remain a miser-magnet in light of KOTH's likely expensiveness.

"Heroes are rare because heroism is so inherently stupid. In giving their all for the good of others, most die and are forgotten. 

In serving only yourself, however...."

Currently working on "Starshift".

A week or so after the Release, Koth should drop down in price.  He's powerful, but his uses are kind of limited, he's not like Jace the Wallet Snatcher, that can be run in any deck running even a little bit of Blue, Koth demands a build with a LOT of Mountains, and as all Red players know, Red is very easy to hate out what with Kor Firewalkers and all the other Red-Hate around.  Koth should (hopefully) level out around $30, though since I want to run Big Red for States, I'm going to be shelling out the cash for him.  Basically rather than buy my boxes, I'm buying a playset of Koth and I'll be able to bum the other stuff I'll need off drafting and hopeful prize from said drafting / FNM.

And really RDW builds don't NEED Koth to be competitive, but Big Red can really function once Koth is on the table with all the ramp and power he gives us. 

Thanks for pointing out the "old" list TheDamned.  This probably looks like what Devell was thinking about, with some changes. 

Tectonic Edge is something to think about, but I'm looking to use a lot of Red mana and have a lot of Mountains, so it might not be worth me using, but a Koth-less list could make some use out of it.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
No problem. After Black (and White, though that's lessened now for...various reasons), I've always liked Red, so I'd like to see it success in a way that isn't just all-out aggro. I just hope FrankyFourFingers doesn't mind me linking to it and posting it.

Speaking of Kor Firewalker, that seems like one of the best uses for Ratchet Bomb (for Red), honestly. Also, you slightly misspelled it as "Kore Firewalker" in the original post, so its card doesn't show up when you refer to it in the bomb list.

Also, I hope you're correct about Koth (even if I want him to be A LOT less than $30).

"Heroes are rare because heroism is so inherently stupid. In giving their all for the good of others, most die and are forgotten. 

In serving only yourself, however...."

Currently working on "Starshift".

Thanks for letting me know where I had a typo was.  I've fixed it now.

My problem with Ratchet Bomb to solve a Firewalker problem is Firewalker's cmc is the same as Dragonlord's, meaning if I have 1 out and I go to blow up a Firewalker, I lose my Dragonlord as well.  I think that's the one reason I'm not opting to use it.  Luckily, I have Steel Hellkite that can blow up Firewalkers without touching my Dragonlords.

I'm not the only one you thinks Koth's price will level out.  There are a few that think it could drop as low as $25.  But it's generally agreed his price is inflated because:
1) of all the hype
2) limited supply only from Pre-Release Pulls
3) big demand (because of the hype) 
4) Planeswalker status

Once the "new shinny" wears off of him, his price should come down to a more reasonable level. 
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
True with regards to Kor Firewalker and Korgan Dragonlord having the same 2 CMC. If Dragonlord weren't so ridiculously easy to pump even without Koth, Ratchet Bomb'ing Firewalker's face off would be more profitable. Of course, now this is just going to make me look into seeing if I can make a viable list that doesn't use Kargan Dragonlord...after Koth's shininess wears off.

"Heroes are rare because heroism is so inherently stupid. In giving their all for the good of others, most die and are forgotten. 

In serving only yourself, however...."

Currently working on "Starshift".

You don't need to run Dragonlord, I've just found him in testing to be a solid bomb that is great to get in the Control match up since you can plop him down turn 2, and in no time you'll have an 8/8 beat stick with all kinds of fun keywords and abilities.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Yeah, I figured you'd be using him like that.  The problem is Big Red is a control build, and the only way you're going to use Cyclops for defense is to swing every turn with it so you know you're killing their biggest guy each turn.  Kazuul, Tyrant of the Cliffs is a bit better for that role.  You get a 5/4 and 3/3s when ever they swing and can't/don't pay to stop you.  That can fog for Koth all day long.  Ideally, you would have plopped down a Chalice to get Koth down on turn 3 and maybe got a quick lick in on them for 4.  That early with burn for turn 1 (and maybe on turn 3 instead of the swing), you shouldn't need to defend him too badly at that point, which would make Kazuul a beast on turn 4 in addition to either building up Koth or ramping out a 4-drop (or just giving Kazuul the Collar and burning a blocker so you can swing).

I'm definitely adding Kazuul to the bomb list.



I think kazuul is definitely the ultimate defender for koth. If we can get him out first before koth it's almost impossible to get past him. How about playing both the cyclops and kazuul? a turn 3 cyclops followed by kazuul on 4th is absolutely devastating.

What's your thought on chandra's outrage to replace searing blaze?

Anyways here's my Big red list:

4 cyclops gladiator
3 kazuul
2 inferno titan
1 kozilek

4 everflowing chalice

4 lightning bolt
4 arc trail
3 burst lightning
3 chandra's outrage
1 fireball
1 chain reaction
1 ratchet bomb

4 koth

4 valakut
21 mountain
Outrage would be the card I would run over Searing Blaze, buy honestly, there's just so many good spells for 1 mana, I wouldn't run any thing else.  Bolt, Blast, Burst and Slash keep all the bases covered.  The only reason I'm not running Flame Slash myself is I just ran out of room.

I wouldn't run Cyclops, I just don't see him being worth the 4 mana.  Sure he does his job well, but the ability that makes him so powerful, and let's him 2-for-1, also gets him killed too easily for a finisher.  Based on my testing, I really think if this deck can go Turn 3: Koth, Turn 4: bomb to protect Koth, we'll be fine since there's easily enough room between turns to burn down the pressure an aggro deck is going to be laying down on us. 
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
Outrage would be the card I would run over Searing Blaze, buy honestly, there's just so many good spells for 1 mana, I wouldn't run any thing else.  Bolt, Blast, Burst and Slash keep all the bases covered.  The only reason I'm not running Flame Slash myself is I just ran out of room.

I wouldn't run Cyclops, I just don't see him being worth the 4 mana.  Sure he does his job well, but the ability that makes him so powerful, and let's him 2-for-1, also gets him killed too easily for a finisher.  Based on my testing, I really think if this deck can go Turn 3: Koth, Turn 4: bomb to protect Koth, we'll be fine since there's easily enough room between turns to burn down the pressure an aggro deck is going to be laying down on us. 



This is true but we also need to see the worst case scenario where we don't have koth available. What's the next best 4 cmc drop other than koth? IMHO, nothing better than cyclops and even if we lose him the turn after but if we can trade him 1 for 2 I think that's pretty good especially if we can follow him up with kazuul or inferno titan the turn after.
If anybody has seen my posts in the last month or so, I have also been planning on playing Big Red. It's nice to see somebody else show some interest. While my list curves out slightly lower, at 5, I would still consider it Big Red...

4 x Kargan Dragonlord
4 x Kuldotha Phoenix
3 x Pilgrim's Eye

4 x Lightning Bolt
4 x Searing BLaze
4 x Galvanic Blast

4 x Temple Bell
3 x Voltaic Key
3 x Lux Cannon

3 x Koth of the Hammer

4 x Valakut, the molten pinnacle
3 x Arid Mesa - late game to keep Blaze at instant speed
15 x Mountain
2 x Tectonic Edge


Sb

2 x Wurmcoil Engine
3 x Arc Trail
3 x Brittle Effigy
3 x Shatter
4 x Leyline of Punishment


I have been testing this build for a little while. Personally, I prefer ripping through my deck with Temple Bell, drawing and dumping my hand repeatedly. They can easily be boarded out against decks that can do the same just as quickly. Key speeds up Lux Cannon tremendously, and lets me hit metalcraft without sucking up my mana. I have not found Everflowing Chalice to be needed here, bc I rarely miss a land drop with Eye, and Bell. Plus, colorless mana is bad with Dragonlord, unless you run Prism.

I did like the whole Koth/Comet storm/Fireball thing, but ultimately found it to be underwhelming...Masticore pitching Phoenix sounds good too though, but I don't see Big Red having enough creatures to get the full benefit of Masticore.
In a deck like Big Red, you only should need 3 or 4 activations of his ability.  The first 2 to finish clearing up their board, and the rest to push them over the top.

Big Red doesn't so much refer to the curve of the deck as that it plans to win off some high mana cost finisher be it a cmc of 5 or a cmc of 15, or some where in between.

How's Searing Blaze been working out for you?  In testing it seemed to fall flat most of the time, I had to actively let creatures live in order to have a target for it most of the time.  That's why I opted for Burst and haven't been unhappy with the switch yet.

Aren't you worried you threat density is a little low?  With only 8 real threats + Koth, it just doesn't seem like enough.  Though Phoenix does recur, so maybe you don't need it.  In fact, it seems like Phoenix loves Chalice, since it not only helps for Metalcraft, but it can get set up so you only need to tap a Chalice or two and you can res. him every turn, and leave all that Red mana open for Dragonlord. 

I also never really considered Key before.  It definitely helps to speed charge the Cannon, but then again, I have yet to really feel the need to fire the Cannon more than once every 4 turns.  Heck, I've even over charged the Cannon simply because I didn't feel the need to turn the Cannon on their lands.

It's good to have some more input from a different take on the Archetype. 
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
In a deck like Big Red, you only should need 3 or 4 activations of his ability.  The first 2 to finish clearing up their board, and the rest to push them over the top.

Big Red doesn't so much refer to the curve of the deck as that it plans to win off some high mana cost finisher be it a cmc of 5 or a cmc of 15, or some where in between.

How's Searing Blaze been working out for you?  In testing it seemed to fall flat most of the time, I had to actively let creatures live in order to have a target for it most of the time.  That's why I opted for Burst and haven't been unhappy with the switch yet.

Aren't you worried you threat density is a little low?  With only 8 real threats + Koth, it just doesn't seem like enough.  Though Phoenix does recur, so maybe you don't need it.  In fact, it seems like Phoenix loves Chalice, since it not only helps for Metalcraft, but it can get set up so you only need to tap a Chalice or two and you can res. him every turn, and leave all that Red mana open for Dragonlord. 

I also never really considered Key before.  It definitely helps to speed charge the Cannon, but then again, I have yet to really feel the need to fire the Cannon more than once every 4 turns.  Heck, I've even over charged the Cannon simply because I didn't feel the need to turn the Cannon on their lands.

It's good to have some more input from a different take on the Archetype. 




The reason I like Blaze, is bc early game, it accomplishes two jobs, taking out a threat, and hitting either them, or a walker for three. My philosophy with red, is that nearly every spell in the deck needs to hurt them, in as many ways as possible. 2 blazes early on, and they are at 13 life, and starting to get nervous. Yea, my threat density is a little lower, but I pack a decent amount of burn, and more in the board if needed. And Bell ensures that I rip through and get to it. Also, againts decks that sport a lot of removal, like control or black heavy decks, I will bring in the Engines to help push that level. And let's not forget, Valakut is always a threat in this deck. Even if you can stall and kill enough creatures to get 1 or 2 valakuts online, you can easily win a game with them.

I really like the Lux Cannon. Turn 4 they Jace, you cannon. With a key or two out, he is dead very soon. And unlike Ratchet Bomb, there is not potential in you losing anything in the deal. And since cannon and Bomb are our only real answers to Leyline of Sanctity, one of them should be run. While cannon only takes out one thing at a time, it stays around. Both have positives and negatives. And my list is nowhere near finished. I hope to see this archetype develop though, bc it has some potential to be a powerhouse. That new Mono-Green enchantment does sorta worry me too. Ascetism or whatever it is. That is another reason to run either bomb, or Cannon.
I think I may test 2 Masticore main deck, but 4 is way too many. Especially in the list that was posted in the o.p. Which has no card draw...I think my list could benefit a little more from it though.
I think Masticore is gonna end up being a staple of this (and many other) decks.
I'd rather high a slightly higher threat density so all my burn doesn't need to do double duty.  10 solid creatures + 6 Planeswalkers seems like a good number with the ability to have burn as some back up.

As far as card draw goes, I'm happier using Crystal Ball to keep my card quality higher than what the other guy has, not just start giving each of us cards and hope mine turn out better.  But that's just a personal preference. 

I'm still trying to figure out how to slip in some Masticores to my list, I may cut a LoSP and a Dragonlord, or maybe cut the Chandra's.  The problem is Chandra works in a pinch to counter enemy bombs and I can fight enemy Planeswalkers 1 loyalty at a time.

And I have to agree, every Big Red list should probably be using either Ratchet Bomb or Lux Cannon.  I think I'll stick with the Cannon since it lowers collateral damage, since I have good stuff on cmcs: 2,4,5 and 6.  And I can't think of much I'd want to take out on cmc 1 or 3 (since those are very burnable targets, and I'm hate to take out my Chalices in order to drop an army of tokens.

What I really need to do is get some solid games against non-random MWS scrubs (testing VS my own lists is starting to get old).  At least the patch should be out soon so I can cut with the proxies. 
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
I'm collecting Drudge Skeleton/Swamp misprints. If you have any, PM me! Current count - 24 Trade thread: http://community.wizards.com/marketplace/go/thread/view/94957/22313557/My_HavesWants_List?sdb=1&post_num=1#388440657
The Replica is an odd choice, NetherGamer, do you happen to know why your roommate opted for using it as apposed so something a little more hearty against removal?
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
:P so people are actually serious about Big Red Returns eh?

i feel i should contribute to this thread so i'll post my deck and see how people feel about it.

the creatures: 12
kargan dragonlord
cunning sparkmage
2 magma phoenix
2 inferno titan

the spells:24
everflowing chalice
lightning bolt
basilisk collar
3 pyretic ritual
4 staggershock
4 koth of the hammer
chandra nalaar

land: 24
24 mountain

sideboard: 15
ratchet bomb
manic vandal
act of treason
3 leyline of punishment
3 elixer of immortality
the idea is ramp ramp ramp.  you speed up the deck, dump alot of damage everywhere, and you finish with inferno titan, phoenoix, or a planeswalker. it kills stuff well, it irritates the opponent every chance you get, and every spell can be really dangerous the entire game.
w00t hit my 1000th post on 4/25/2010
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56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
Show
63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]
@Useless_Mancer:
What's your game plan VS weenie aggro?  It seems like they'll have too much early pressure for you to be able to burn them off fast enough.  I mean you have Bolt for turn 1, and you can Ritual out a Staggershock on turn 2, and rebound it turn 3.  But if you get paired VS RDW, it seems like all that's going to be too little to late and they're start burning your face and have you in the red before you can gain a handle on the situation. 
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.
This is a list that my roomate has been working on:

24 mountain

4 inferno titan
4 kuldotha phoenix
4 cunning sparkmage
4 vulshock replica

4 lightning bolt
4 koth of the hammer
4 everflowing chalice
4 galvanic blast
4 basilisk collar

Sb
4 act of treason
3 ratchet bomb
4 manic vandal
4 tunnel ignus




I def think the Replica doesn't make the cut here. You need something a little more reliable. He is just an expensive lighting bolt, that only hits players. Go with some valakuts and pilgrim's eye. Its a really good setup.
@Useless_Mancer:
What's your game plan VS weenie aggro?  It seems like they'll have too much early pressure for you to be able to burn them off fast enough.  I mean you have Bolt for turn 1, and you can Ritual out a Staggershock on turn 2, and rebound it turn 3.  But if you get paired VS RDW, it seems like all that's going to be too little to late and they're start burning your face and have you in the red before you can gain a handle on the situation. 



:P thats for the sideboard, ratchet bomb should be fast enhough to blow up their one drops and 2 drops. with this deck you can out power them and mind you thats one of the reasons why the phoenix is in there, it's repeatable removal on a stick that when it dies, against RDW it's not an if it's a when, then all of their stuff dies, or you force it.

mind you when inferno titan attacks you kill stuff off, if the phoenix dies, thats 3 to everything, once koth hits and you can dump your bombs, it should be very quickly game, and the deck can easily hold RDW off until then, because you can kill off their permanents until your big ones land, also i was thinking about the burn as well, putting elixer of immortality in the sideboard for lifegain and making stuff reusable sounds good for that actually, i might take out an act of treason or 2 as well as a manuic vandel to insert the elixer.
w00t hit my 1000th post on 4/25/2010
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I am both selfish and instinctive. I value growth and community, as long as they favour my own objectives; I enjoy nature, and I particularly enjoy watching parts of nature die. At best, I am resilient and tenacious; at worst, I'm uncontrollable and destructive.

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56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
Show
63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]
I think I really overlooked how good Ratchet Bomb is against token decks. You can blow it at 0 counters, and kill all their tokens. That seems pretty nice. Also, do we think Vandal over Shatter is gonna be a good idea? Instant speed, cheaper removal...or a body at sorcery speed. What is the verdict on that?
I think I really overlooked how good Ratchet Bomb is against token decks. You can blow it at 0 counters, and kill all their tokens. That seems pretty nice. Also, do we think Vandal over Shatter is gonna be a good idea? Instant speed, cheaper removal...or a body at sorcery speed. What is the verdict on that?



well it does do what we want it to do, and it also adds the bonus of chump blocking, so id say it is good enough for this deck.
w00t hit my 1000th post on 4/25/2010
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I am Black/Green
I am Black/Green
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56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
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63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]