Raising Dead and Binding Daemons

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Among the shelves of my LGS, the collections of my friends and the internet, I have access to pretty much any 4e book I could want.  But I haven't been able to find actual rules for raising Undead or summoning and binding Daemons.  Is their such a thing in 4e right now?  There were resources for 3.5, but I thought for sure that with Ritual Magic there'd be something done with these ideas but I can't find them.

I've looked in the Open Grave book and the Planar Handbook.  Can anyone tell me where I can find these rules?  We like to play evil campaigns a lot so I want to have these things available.
Sleeping with interns on Colonial 1
Monster Manual 1, pg. 259 includes a ritual to create a Vampire Lord (usable only by Vampire Lords, mind you).  That's the only example of necromantic magic that I can think of in the ruleset; and even with that, raising the undead is left solely in the hands of the DM.

Returned from hiatus; getting up to speed on 5e rules lawyering.

You won't find any support for evil campaigns in 4e. Wotc won't support it in order to protect the public image of the game.
I don't think it would be that hard to create rituals that would do that just compare it other rituals of similar power, they could be heroic tier rituals dependent on skill check made with it would depend on type of undead/daemon you would get.
Another option being that you could make different level rituals for the different level of undead/daemon you want to summon but make the skill check dependent on how many you can summon. (would not recommend this one for summoning as powerful as a balor or something)
Also look at loremasters bargain in the phb with allows you to speak with extraplanar beings such as angels, demi-gods, daemons and devils.


I've looked in the Open Grave book and the Planar Handbook.  Can anyone tell me where I can find these rules?  We like to play evil campaigns a lot so I want to have these things available.



There is a ritual whose name escapes me that allows a PC wizard to animate a dead corpse as a noncombatant lackey.  That's it as far as rituals to create undead that are actually usable by PCs.  There may be necromantic summons in the heroes of shadow book that's due in a few months.  In the meantime, if you want to play a necromancer, I'd recommend refluffing a summoner wizard.

There is a ritual that allows PCs to summon and deal with demons.  It's in the Demonomicon.

There's also a fairly low level servant zombie ritual and a highish (paragon) level lich ritual.

In our game we have reproduced the old AD&D practice of collecting henchmen and pet's with a houserule based around Mounts for the cost to create/summon/train them (ie a Lvl 5 critter cost the same as a L5 Magic Sword).

However, as creatures such as this don't level, they tend to end up dead, so nobody uses them on adventures except as guards that watch the base camp.
There's also a fairly low level servant zombie ritual and a highish (paragon) level lich ritual.

In our game we have reproduced the old AD&D practice of collecting henchmen and pet's with a houserule based around Mounts for the cost to create/summon/train them (ie a Lvl 5 critter cost the same as a L5 Magic Sword).

However, as creatures such as this don't level, they tend to end up dead, so nobody uses them on adventures except as guards that watch the base camp.

That's pretty undercosted if you manage to pick something like a Hippogriff.

Some mounts cost less then a magic item of that level (horses), but those are the ones that don't do much besides give you bonus to speed at the cost of a feat.
There's also a fairly low level servant zombie ritual and a highish (paragon) level lich ritual.

In our game we have reproduced the old AD&D practice of collecting henchmen and pet's with a houserule based around Mounts for the cost to create/summon/train them (ie a Lvl 5 critter cost the same as a L5 Magic Sword).

However, as creatures such as this don't level, they tend to end up dead, so nobody uses them on adventures except as guards that watch the base camp.

That's pretty undercosted if you manage to pick something like a Hippogriff.

Some mounts cost less then a magic item of that level (horses), but those are the ones that don't do much besides give you bonus to speed at the cost of a feat.



Yeah I think I have the creature cost off. I was under the impression that mount costs were more uniform for some reason. Dire Wolf (L5) costs 1000GP, RageDrake (L5) costs 2600GP (+2 Level Cost), Hippogryph's (5th level critter) costs 4200GP(+4Level cost). That sounds about right. One of the PCs wasted a buttload of gold on a Gryphon which then died pretty quickly because he wouldn't leave it at with the porters.

So it must be Critter level +x for extra abilities. it looks fomulatable anyways.




The aforementioned zombie minion ritual was in Open Grave (which also included a lot of other very cool Necromancy rituals - worth checking out IMHO).

If you want to be able to summon demons in 4e there's a very easy way to do it, just adapt the companion rules. The companion rules in DMG2 allow you to turn monsters into perfectly playable companions to PCs. Turn a small demon into a companion and bam you have a bound demon servant. Then there's also familiars  like imps which fit that role well. Finally if all you want from your demon binding is information consider reflavoring the Consult Mystic Sages ritual. I don't see why that can't become a Summon Demon for Answers spell.

Why would there be daemons in the Demonomicon?  That book is about evil creatures from the Abyss, not inspirational/guardian spirits.
If your position is that the official rules don't matter, or that house rules can fix everything, please don't bother posting in forums about the official rules. To do so is a waste of everyone's time.
Why would there be daemons in the Demonomicon?  That book is about evil creatures from the Abyss, not inspirational/guardian spirits.

Because that's not the D&D definition of daemon

Why would there be daemons in the Demonomicon?  That book is about evil creatures from the Abyss, not inspirational/guardian spirits.

Daemon (pronounced 'Demon') was the name for Yugoloths in 1e.  In 4e, those daemons are now generally refered to simply as demons.

I haven't been able to find actual rules for raising Undead

Undead Servitor (Open Grave p.50). It's assumed that NPC's have access to more powerful rituals, which don't need to be detailed, and which PC's should not have access to for balance reasons.
 
or summoning and binding Daemons.

Summon Demon (Demonomicon p.18).
While not a ritual, I believe there is a power that allows you to ressurect a dead foe as a zombified creature. I think it was in the dragon magazine with the Brotherhood of Sin, or whatever it was called, will give the exact power and number if I find it, unless someone else can remember it whilst I look.

Edit: Dragon 372, Scholars of Sin, not brotherhood. There is a Wizard power, called "Animate Dead," it is a daily, but it literally does what it says. An enemy dies, and you bring him back as your own. I think wizards knew what they were doing when they cut down on the power of summoning abilities to prevent people from just swarming their opponents with a horde of summoned creatures, so I wouldn't expect to find a zombie creating ritual. Feel free to homebrew though, and I would highly reccomend reading the whole Secrets of the City Entombed article, as it deals a great deal with necromancy as opposed to simply undead.
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Because that's not the D&D definition of daemon


Actually - and this was my point - "daemon" is not the D&D spelling of "demon."

They are two different words, and though they sound alike, they generally have two different meanings.  Though it has become more commonplace to conflate the two (thanks, Lord British, you ignorant wacko!), I find it is better to be precise with the language to avoid confusion.
If your position is that the official rules don't matter, or that house rules can fix everything, please don't bother posting in forums about the official rules. To do so is a waste of everyone's time.
I'm not entirely sure where the difference lies.  I was under the impression that the 'ae' spelling was simply a more archaic version.  For what it's worth, I was really just used to that spelling from my Warhammer background.

Good stuff here guys.  I'll get my hands on the Demonomicon as soon as I can.

www.dailywritingtips.com/demons-daemons-...

Quick Google search...
Sleeping with interns on Colonial 1
I'm not entirely sure where the difference lies

Previously in D&D they were two different categories: 'Daemons' were Yugoloths while 'Demons' were mainly Tanar'ri (Andrelai wasn't refering to this though). D&D no longer uses the term daemon, but fantasy readers (esp. "The Golden Compass") often take the different spelling to mean something other than a "demon". 

Also Wikipedia says: "The words daemon, dæmon, and daimon are... used purposely today to distinguish the daemons of Ancient Greek religion and mythology, Hellenistic religion and philosophy. Daemons are good or malevolent "supernatural beings between mortals and gods, such as inferior divinities and ghosts of dead heroes", and differ from the Judeo-Christian usage of demon"

fwiw: I completely understood what you meant... your use was still valid (just potentially confusing to some).

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