Heroes of Shadow

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With all the rumor and gossip on these pages flying about, I have to ask the one question that will make or break this product.

Are there classes in this book?
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
With all the rumor and gossip on these pages flying about, I have to ask the one question that will make or break this product.

Are there classes in this book?



Two seconds of internet research gives me this bit from its catalog blurb, excerpted: "In addition to exploring the nature of the shadow power source, this  book presents races, classes, feats, powers, and other options"

So, no.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Yep, understood, even with the tongue in cheek. My concern is the believe that the Assassin is not in the book (that one will be true), that the Necromancer in the book will be some sort of build for an already existing class, and the Hexblade is in the Essentials book as a Warlock build instead of in this book.

Some believe that there won't be classes, just "options."
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
I sincerely hope that the Hexblade Warlock is quite simply a melee-focused Warlock build which utilizes a Pact Blade and perhaps even melee weapon powers. If so, this would provide a fun and new option for the people who've been clamoring for an arcane melee striker, and would fit the apparent "give them what they want" focus of this book, considering it FINALLY includes a Leader Druid, a Martial Controller, and what is almost certainly an Astral Mount Paladin.

Basically, what I'm hoping is that the use of the name "Hexblade" is simply an example of either the dev teams not sharing ideas about what they're working on, or just not caring whether they reuse a name (c.f. Ardent Paladin). Because, frankly, the alternative is very disappointing. We already know there won't be any new Assassin builds in the book (which really, really sucks. Honestly, the exclusivity thing was stupid to begin with, and God knows you've already promised things and not followed through with them *coughvirtualconsolecough*), so if the Hexblade is a Warlock that means one of two things;

1) There will only be one class in the book (Necromancer).

2) Necromancer will be a Wizard build.

Now, I'm leaning toward the first one, just because the devs admitted to liking Necromancers, and because it's got such a concrete archetype in fiction that draws from so many sources, from Voodoo to witch-doctors to the much-toted zombie raising puppetmaster.

... However, I sent an email to CustServ about this issue, and their response was that "we can neither confirm nor deny your assumptions, but rest assured that any changes made reflect the best interests of the players. Keep the faith."

Now, this could be interpretted as "Yeah, we made them all essentials builds but trust us, it's gonna work" or "no, we wouldn't do something that stupid, but I can't tell you directly 'cuz the higher-ups will fire me".

... Take your pick.

Let's not forget that the Hunter Ranger is an Essentials build...and also the name of an existing Ranger build.  The Essentials have some overlap with names.

I have been one of the people questioning the need for a necormancer class, and among one of the more vocal proclaiming that there is little precedent for Necromancer being it's own class, as opposed to a subset of wizard.

But it seems likely that we will see a necromancer full class in this book, as well as something called a hexblade...whatever that turns out to be.

As for the assassin in the book.  Technically, it does not say that the assassin is in the book, it just mentions the assassin (as well as necromancer and hexblade) as an example of someone who draws on the power of shadow to do what they do.  Basically, calling all 3 out to be shadow classes.

Hexblade to me seems more like it should be a shadow class, especially since shadow powers ra ecalled "hexes".  While I may wince at the idea of a full-fledged PC necromancer class, I think the hexblade would be a perfect concept for, say, a shadow defender.  This would fulfill what many people on the forums wish for in a "death knight/dark knight" style character.
In a recent podcast they said that assassins are still DDI exclusive. They also said (if I remember correctly), that there will be two races in the book. Did they mention anywhere what those races might be? What are the speculators on the boards thinking?
In a recent podcast they said that assassins are still DDI exclusive. They also said (if I remember correctly), that there will be two races in the book. Did they mention anywhere what those races might be? What are the speculators on the boards thinking?



Well, since the assassin and revenant will continue to be DDI exclusive, I think we can count on at least one, if not two, new, unique race(s).

The reason I say a possibility of one, is that i find it very likely that we will get a decent write-up of Shadar-kai, with updated, variable stats, a racial PP, more feats, etc.
Did they say how long the Assassin and the Revenant will be DDI exclusive?


Forever.

Did they mention anywhere what those races might be? What are the speculators on the boards thinking?


If there are two races in the book, then my guesses are shadar-kai (with a third optional stat boost as Chiba said) and dark one.

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

But it seems likely that we will see a necromancer full class in this book, as well as something called a hexblade...whatever that turns out to be.



The hexblade actually dates back to 3.5.  It is very much a "dark knight" character - a scoundrel of a warrior, who cheats by laying curses upon his foe to soften them up.  I've been around a few topics on this, and I and several other forum-goers hope the hexblade gets a set of daily powers that can alter the mark punishment.  In 3.5, there were feats that allowed the hexblade to use his Hexblade's Curse class feature to either lay on a standard curse or a more specific but more powerful curse.  This seems like it should be handled by powers, not feats, now.  I sincerely hope WotC has been paying enough attention to notice and grab this idea.
That would be lame if it were shadar-kai. We already have the write-up for them. I'm sure there will be support for them. I hope it is 2 brand new races.
The Shadar-kai are in the Dragon Annual, so it is more likely two different races instead. "Dark One?" Really? Why not call a race "Void?"

I was hoping to get some sort of official answer to this by a Wizard Employee, either "Yes" or "No" to the question.

Is there some Classes in this book?

I agree that the Necromancer should be a full class, as well as the Illusionist and a Shadow Dancer type class. Right now, it might not be any if some of those "in the know" are telling the truth.
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
We already have an Illusionist class and Shadowdancer class ...
I know there are some Wizard builds out there that deal with Illusions, and that most likely this is the poor man's replacement for the full fledged Illusionist.

The Shadow Dancer, though, I don't see. At least, I don't see it in print.

Here is what I want in a Shadow Dancer like class.

The ability to jump shadows at will. The limit would be a certain distance in a day, most likely done in "squares." I think 6 squares to begin, and it would tier every three levels or so. Paragon would be up to 15 square, epic would be 30, while at level 28 it would go to 45.

Darkvision at some point. Thus far, there are very few races that have this.

Hiding without having to use skill rolls.

Powers that teleport in addition to the shadowjumps.

A sneak attack like class feature.

Powers that use other's shadows to effect the enemies.

Stuff like that.
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
The Shadar-kai are in the Dragon Annual, so it is more likely two different races instead.

But the cynic in me keeps saying, "But that would be the perfect place to rehash Shadar-kai with the 'new' attribute choice thing." 


“If the computer or the game designer is having more fun than the player, you have made a terrible mistake.” -Sid Meier
I know there are some Wizard builds out there that deal with Illusions, and that most likely this is the poor man's replacement for the full fledged Illusionist.

The Shadow Dancer, though, I don't see. At least, I don't see it in print.

Here is what I want in a Shadow Dancer like class.

The ability to jump shadows at will. The limit would be a certain distance in a day, most likely done in "squares." I think 6 squares to begin, and it would tier every three levels or so. Paragon would be up to 15 square, epic would be 30, while at level 28 it would go to 45.

Darkvision at some point. Thus far, there are very few races that have this.

Hiding without having to use skill rolls.

Powers that teleport in addition to the shadowjumps.

A sneak attack like class feature.

Powers that use other's shadows to effect the enemies.

Stuff like that.



ThaX, we just had this conversation a couple days ago.  The assassin does everything you ask the shadowdancer to do.  It fills the same conceptual and mechanical niche - as long as you don't let the class name dictate how you play your character.  You don't need a new class - you just need to repair the current one.  Honestly, I'd be pretty upset if WotC always took the stance of "well, we screwed this up.  We're just going to ignore it, pretend it doesn't exist and never did exist, and then try again, hoping nobody points to the previous failure."
ThaX, your question needs to specify "New" classes.  After all, there are classes in the essentials books.  They aren't exactly new classes - rather they're redesigned builds of existing classes, but I don't think anybody could flip through heroes of the fallen lands and claim there were no classes in there.

So the question is, "Are there going to be any new classes in Heroes of Shadow", and that's a very important question that I would very much like to hear an answer to from a dev.  I've been looking forward to the shadow power source since 4e was released, and watching the assassin banished to the ddi ghetto and the hexblade eaten by the warlock makes me very unhappy about the future of what should be my favorite product in all of 4e, but is looking more and more like it might turn into something I don't want at all.

As for races, I would love to see Shadar Kai get a write up in a published book.  I mean, they're the iconic player race of 4e's Shadowfell, and the chosen people of that plane's resident deity.  They deserve the spot, and it would be an ideal place to put their e-stats.

I'd also love to see dark ones, and, while they aren't from the shadowfell, both changelings and kenku have a shadowy feel and could benefit from an e-stat player race write up.  While changelings already have e-style stats, their existing abilities are a little lack-luster, and their feat support is dramatically sub-par in both quantity and quality, so I think another book write up could be worthwhile.

But the more important concern is the classes.  The shadow source itself covers ideas from shadow-mancy (spellcasters who attack by manipulating darkness and shadows) and necromancy, as well as the classic dark knight.  These archetypes were well supported in 3e, and even though almost all magic fell under 'arcane' or 'divine' headings back then, these characters still felt distinct and apart, having more in common thematically with each other then with other classes.

Distinct examples of these archetypes abound.  In 3e D&D, there was the shadow caster, the beguiler, the hexblade, the dread necromancer, the shadow dancer, the blackguard, the necrocarnate, the assassin, and more.  In popular fantasy there's Naruto's Shikamaru, FF IV's Dark Knight Cecil, Warcraft's Death Knights and necromancers, and so on. The source has a natural thematic leaning towards teleportation, hiding, invisibility, illusions, and manipulation of the undead.  "The powers of darkness" is an overwhelmingly common fantasy trope, and more and more frequently these days dark does not always mean evil, not just in D&D.  While these very strong thematic elements are usually associated with villains (making the optional part of "players options" ideal), they are certainly strong and wide and deep enough to justify multiple full shadow classes for those games where PC anti heros or dark heroes are apporpriate.  They shouldn't be bent out of proportion to try and make them share space with other classes and other power sources.

Diluting the thematic value of the shadow power source by awkwardly shoe-horning the distinctive archetypes that fall under its domain into other classes, forcing them to share space with other power sources, is very much pounting the proverbial square peg into the round hole, and will inevitably lead to a lack-luster product that fails to deliver on the promise of these concepts.
[

ThaX, we just had this conversation a couple days ago. 



And you'll have it a couple of days from now.  And a couple of days after that.  Thax has demonstrated that he simply cannot (or more likely, will not) overcome the mental block of associating class name with character concept.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
ThaX's issues with assassins are on display here, but they're quite tangential to the core issue - the fear that, with assassin officially remaining in the ddi ghetto, and the new version diluting it's shadow themes by making its attacks purely martial in nature, and with the hexblade becoming a subtype of warlock, we might end up seeing a shadow source with no real classes to call its own.

If any devs are reading this, if this is truely the direction you're looking at going, and if there's any time left to change your minds... do so.  If this is the case, it's a stupid direction to take these ideas and this product.
The executioner is only one build of the E-ssassin, and it's a playtest at that.  I'm reasonably certain, if nothing else changes, the other build will be more shadow-y.

They're openly asking for feedback on the Essentials assassin in that article.  They are listening.  Fling 'em an e-mail.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.

The Shadow Dancer, though, I don't see. At least, I don't see it in print.


Because you have this non-sensical idea that runs contrary to the real world and the world of publishing that electronic media is not published or printed material.  Too bad for you, you're wrong.



Anyways, the Pyromancer article seems to indicate that the Necromancer will in fact be nothing more than another Mage specialization.
Anyways, the Pyromancer article seems to indicate that the Necromancer will in fact be nothing more than another Mage specialization.



And thank goodness for that.  The more schools the better (though Pyromancy is kind of out of left field for me, but I like the original D&D schools).  I wonder when we will see the Transmuter (it already has some powers in the Red Box).  Bring on the Abjurer and Conjurer too!
CORE MORE, NOT CORE BORE!
The pyromancer article also seems to push a less shadow-y assassin. Since it always have martial attacks and shadow utilities. While since the only differential the assassin gets is that it has different guild training; ie like mage schools.
They're openly asking for feedback on the Essentials assassin in that article.  They are listening.  Fling 'em an e-mail.



really?  Because the impression I get is that they only want mechanical feedback on the essassin (ie, can you break hidden spear?  if so we'll remove it), not an overall response to it's mixed sources or the implications for the shadow source as a whole, or even feedback on whether we still want material for the ossassin.
They're openly asking for feedback on the Essentials assassin in that article.  They are listening.  Fling 'em an e-mail.



really?  Because the impression I get is that they only want mechanical feedback on the essassin (ie, can you break hidden spear?  if so we'll remove it), not an overall response to it's mixed sources or the implications for the shadow source as a whole, or even feedback on whether we still want material for the ossassin.



If that is the case (and I'm not saying it isn't), I think you stand a better chance of your opinions being read by the development team if you sent them an e-mail.  If any of them hang out on the forums anywhere other than CharOp, they don't advertise it.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.


Here is what I want in a Shadow Dancer like class.



There is a class that has all the stuff you mentioned ThanX. It is called the pre-E assassin class....

The ability to jump shadows at will. The limit would be a certain distance in a day, most likely done in "squares." I think 6 squares to begin, and it would tier every three levels or so. Paragon would be up to 15 square, epic would be 30, while at level 28 it would go to 45.



Shadow step. Assassin has it.

I am pretty sure there is an assassin utility that grants this.

Darkvision at some point. Thus far, there are very few races that have this.



I am pretty sure there is an assassin utility that grants this.


Hiding without having to use skill rolls.



The assassin has multiple utilities that grant this.

Powers that teleport in addition to the shadowjumps.



The assassin has multiple abilities that grant this.


A sneak attack like class feature.



You mean, something like the ability to drop shadows onto an enemy that outline the enemie's most vulnerable spots for you? The assassin has that too. It is called the shroud mechanic.

Powers that use other's shadows to effect the enemies.



The assassin gets plenty of these as well... including a few in at-will form.

The thing is, the first assassin class released isn't really an assassin. It is a shadowdancer with a hired killers fluff tacked on in places. If someone wants to play a shadowdancer, they should really just build an assassin using the pre-E build released.


Actually, the Assassin has a feat and a PP that both grant permanent Darkvision.

Seriously, the Shadow sourced Assassin IS the Shadow Dancer.
Actually, the Assassin has a feat and a PP that both grant permanent Darkvision.

Seriously, the Shadow sourced Assassin IS the Shadow Dancer.



I agree. I really wish they would have just called it that in the first place...
Actually, the Assassin has a feat and a PP that both grant permanent Darkvision.

Seriously, the Shadow sourced Assassin IS the Shadow Dancer.



I agree. I really wish they would have just called it that in the first place...



WotC doesn't like two word names.  Now if only there were a way to delete the space between Shadow and Dancer...
CORE MORE, NOT CORE BORE!

*grin* Silverblaze has a point.

Not to invalidate Cyber-Dave's responses (because I wholeheartedly agree), but a few more points here:

I know there are some Wizard builds out there that deal with Illusions, and that most likely this is the poor man's replacement for the full fledged Illusionist.

The Shadow Dancer, though, I don't see. At least, I don't see it in print.

Here is what I want in a Shadow Dancer like class.

The ability to jump shadows at will. The limit would be a certain distance in a day, most likely done in "squares." I think 6 squares to begin, and it would tier every three levels or so. Paragon would be up to 15 square, epic would be 30, while at level 28 it would go to 45.


If the power is "at-will", why would it be limited in distance per day?  If it's at-will, it should have a limited distance per jump that might scale.  Otherwise, would be encounter.  Having a "distance per day" mechanic sounds like you are just trying to cram the 3e shadowdancer into 4e.

Oh, wait...you are. 

The 4e assassin can shadow jump at-will from one enemy's shadow to another.

Darkvision at some point. Thus far, there are very few races that have this.


You are once again describing the shadow assassin. 

Hiding without having to use skill rolls.


Powers that would grant concealment aside, being able to automatically be hidden (and thus effectively invisible) without even ever having to make a skill check is overpowered.  #e Shadowdancers couldn't even do that, now you're just wrapped up in how awesome you thought the 3e shadowdancer was, and you want this class you describe to be "uber".

Powers that teleport in addition to the shadowjumps.


Non-shadow teleportation?  It's not even thematically appropriate.  All his teleports should remain shadow-realted.

Which s what the assassin does.

A sneak attack like class feature.


All strikers have one.  Even...*gasp* the assassin.

Powers that use other's shadows to effect the enemies.

Stuff like that.



Yeah, I'm almost positive I remember an assassin power that has the enemies' shadows reach out and start attacking them.

So what is it your really want?
You mean like calling it the Shadancer?

Kind of weird.



If Swordmage, Battlemind, Runepriest can be 1 word, I dont see why Shadowdancer can't.

I think they may have avoided shadowdancer originally for 2 reasons.

1) Having the name of the powersource in the class sounds kind of weak. The only exception to this is the Psion kind of, but instead his name is part of the powersource, Psionic.

2) It was originally designed to be the Assassin. I remmber podcasts/interviews early on where they were thinking of it being a Martial|Arcane class or some powersource hybrid i don't remmeber, the change to Pure Shadow came later because power source hybrids weaken what makes a powersource a powersource.
-- reaction to article eluding to Necromancer being a build... Where are they publishing this build? I hope it is somewhere other than the Heroes of Shadow. We want new classes in there.

-- Assassin = Shadowdancer....  Not being able to shadow jump when there are no enemies is not at will. It is situational, a utility class feature. 

- - - I have to say, with all the posting here, I will have to take a look at the Assassin and go through everything to see exactly what it stole from the Shadowdancer. It saddens me that the name of the class is "paid murderer" but I may have to concede defeat with this.

So, With the Necromancer gone, the Hexblade stolen, and no real infomation, does it look like the Heroes of Shadow is a bust?

Is there not going to be any New Classes in this book?
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)


Anyways, the Pyromancer article seems to indicate that the Necromancer will in fact be nothing more than another Mage specialization.



Maybe, but then again 3e had multiple versions of the necromancer, one being a specialized wizard the other a base class.
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Not to mention that the Assassin has a few PP's before the classes was "released" in DDi.
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
The Hexblade is a build option under Warlock, page 32 in Heroes of the Fallen Lands. The hexblade will not be its own class. I would wager the Necromancer will be like the Evoker, Illuisionist, Pyromancer...etc... and for sure not its own class.
[...]I would wager the Necromancer will be like the Evoker, Illuisionist, Pyromancer...etc... and for sure not its own class.



Which is very, very, sad. I would say it's the last nail on Heroes of Shadow proverbial coffin.
It's sounding as if, without actual concrete classes, Shadow is dead. I think they've officially killed all the sources outside the ones we already have. So I'm guessing elemental, and whatever they initially planned are also dead. Good for them. I think. Maybe it's bitterness from the killing of Ki. I dunno.

I mean I might buy the book, if nothing just to look at the new "builds" - they seriously should stop calling it that. They're subclasses, not builds; there are multiple builds in the subclasses. So no, you can't call it a "build". But so far, it seems that there's nothing that people who are more adherent to the idea of a real shadow source want anything do with this book.
I guess Elemental as a power source is dead since Pyromancers use the arcane power source.


I honestly cannot tell whether you are being sarcastic here. I'm going to guess 'yes', though.

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

For what it's worth, the Rules Compendium describes the power sources as being Arcane, Divine, Martial, Primal, Psionic and Shadow. No mention of Elemental in there, but Shadow is still existant so there is chance we'll see proper classes just for the source.
I guess Elemental as a power source is dead since Pyromancers use the arcane power source.



I really hope not, but WotC hasn't mentioned the Elemental Source for awile now.
However, there is a Dragonborn Elementalist in the new minis set.
Elementalist was/is supposed to be a Class of the Elemental Power Source.
So maybe the Source isn't dead yet. Besides,  nobody has said it has been killed.
When they killed Ki we knew about it pretty quick.
Confirmation one way or the other would be nice though.
Sarcastic?


Pyromancer being a wizard build tells us absolutely nothing about the elemental power source. But you're intelligent enough to realise that. So I assume you were being sarcastic.

"My flying carpet is full of elves."