Ranged Weapon

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Ranged weapons need to work on Close powers and thus this new Rule need to be removed. For exemple, a Rogue using a Handcrossbow or a Shortbow (both Ranged weapons) must be able to properly use Close Powers such as Blinding Barrage and Cloud of Steel which especially require such weapons among others. 

RC 268 Weapons
A ranged weapon cannot be used with a melee  power or a close power that has the weapon keyword, unless the weapon has the light thrown or heavy thrown property or the weapon is wielded as an improvised melee weapon.


Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Or they errata the affected powers to no longer include crossbows or slings.  Shortbows can't be used with Blinding Barrage or Rain of Steel today unless you're an elf or a half-elf.
I think the requirement line:

Requirement: You must be wielding a crossbow, a light thrown weapon, or a sling.

Qualifies as a specific rule that beats the general rule.
I think the requirement line:

Requirement: You must be wielding a crossbow, a light thrown weapon, or a sling.

Qualifies as a specific rule that beats the general rule.



Fine. What about the Seeker or the Ranger ?

Powers like Protecting Spirit, Trempling Shot, Spray of Arrows Menacing Cry Ferocious Roar, Brutal Tempest, Disperse The Horde  don't have weapon requirement.

And the Melee weapons cannot be use with Ranged and Area Attack neither, is it coming in conflict with most Spiritbound Seekers ? Powers such as Windstrorm, Swarming Bats, Strike Fey Sinkhole, Wave of Sleep, Rending Vines Slavering Sentinels also don't have requirement.

Their Thrown property don't seem to help neither for they don't include Area power:

A melee weapon with the heavy thrown or the light thrown property counts as a ranged weapon when thrown and can be used with ranged attack powers that have the weapon keyword.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter



Fine. What about the Seeker or the Ranger ?

Powers like Protecting Spirit, Trempling Shot, Spray of Arrows Menacing Cry Ferocious Roar, Brutal Tempest, Disperse The Horde  don't have weapon requirement.

And the Melee weapons cannot be use with Ranged and Area Attack neither, is it coming in conflict with most Spiritbound Seekers ? Powers such as Windstrorm, Swarming Bats, Strike Fey Sinkhole, Wave of Sleep, Rending Vines Slavering Sentinels also don't have requirement.

Their Thrown property don't seem to help neither for they don't include Area power:

 A melee weapon with the heavy thrown or the light thrown property counts as a ranged weapon when thrown and can be used with ranged attack powers that have the weapon keyword.




Ok, lets take these one at a time.

Protecting Spirit:  seems like a candidate for an errata
Trampling Shot: seems to me the initial attact is not really a weapon attack, it is only the follow up series of RBA that are weapon attacts.  As such, I would think the seeker could chose not to target an adjectent enemy with the follow-up attack if they wished to avoid an attack of opportunity.
Spray of Arrows:  This also has the ranged weapon requirment, so its specific beats general.
Menacing Cry: This is a beast power and does not have the weapon keyword.
Ferocious Roar: Ditto
Brutal Tempest:  Ditto
Disperse the hoard: I see no evidence that this is intended to be used with a ranged weapon.  I don't play rangers, but the discription of the Lone Wolf sounds like its more geared towards melee builds.
Windstorm attack: This is an area burst, not close burst, so rule does not apply to this power.
Swarming Bats: Ditto.
 Fey Sinkhole: This is an area burst, the Fey sinkhole attack is a close burst but centered on a square in the zone created by the original area burst.
Wave of sleep: Area burst.
Rending Vines: Ditto
Slavering Sentinals: Ditto

 


So of all the powers you listed only one seems to be effected by the new rule.

I don't see that requiring a ranged weapon necessarily qualifies as an exception to the general rule. RAW, the power still functions, but you must use the ranged weapon as an improvised melee weapon (that somehow functions in a burst which may exceed your melee weapon reach). So the powers Plaguescarred listed in his initial post appear to remain valid examples. Here are a couple more:

War Proxy: This power does not require a ranged weapon, yet is clearly intended for ranged weapon users.
Spellmaster's Pawn: This power requires a ranged weapon.

A strict RAW reading says that we must use our ranged weapons as improvised melee weapons, but I hope we can all agree that this strict reading is not what the designers intended when writing these powers.

The purpose of the new version of the rule is unclear. If there is a positive benefit, it escapes me. But the detriment is obvious. So I agree with Plaguescarred, it appears this new change to the rule is a candidate for removal.
As long as the CB doesn't listen up we will be fine.

If it take by default the Improvised damage instead of the normal one and remove your Proficiency bonus to attack, you'll see a couple of Threads popping up in the CB Technical problems by people reporting this "problem"

We'll see.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter


The purpose of the new version of the rule is unclear.


I'm sure it's to prevent you from using a ranged weapon with powers like Great Cleave, Hungry Earth, Sweeping Frostblade, etc etc.  There are a lot of them.  As written, you can use a ranged weapon with them and you don't even provoke OAs (since it is not a ranged attack).
I'm sure it's to prevent you from using a ranged weapon with powers like Great Cleave, Hungry Earth, Sweeping Frostblade, etc etc.  There are a lot of them.  As written, you can use a ranged weapon with them and you don't even provoke OAs (since it is not a ranged attack).

Taking a quick glance over the powers you listed, you're surely correct. Even now I sometimes forget that it's the power type and not the weapon type that dictates whether an OA is invoked. Although I confess I'm left wondering whether any of those powers ever actually got abused by ranged weapon wielders. Because until some of the Close powers meant for ranged weapon wielders get some errata, I won't be able to help but feel that the cure is worse than the disease.
I still don't know what to do with Rain of Steel.  The ranged/melee thing aside, if you swap weapons mid-stance, does the damage change?

"Edison didn't succeed the first time he invented Benjamin Franklin, either." Albert the Alligator, Walt Kelly's Pogo Sunday Book  
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I still don't know what to do with Rain of Steel.  The ranged/melee thing aside, if you swap weapons mid-stance, does the damage change?



I'd blame it on the stance being poorly worded and in need of fixing. Granted, it isn't a bug anyone was exploiting (or realizing, for that matter!), but it is unnecessarily ambiguous. So it should say 'with a melee weapon you are wielding', or something.
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I'd blame it on the stance being poorly worded and in need of fixing. Granted, it isn't a bug anyone was exploiting (or realizing, for that matter!), but it is unnecessarily ambiguous. So it should say 'with a melee weapon you are wielding', or something.

With ki foci in the mix, you could get a little bit of abuse out of it.  Swap out your longsword for a waraxe or craghammer as a free action with a disembodied hand, or something.  Not worth going out of your way for, but nice if it's within easy reach (fighter|swordmage, most likely).

"Edison didn't succeed the first time he invented Benjamin Franklin, either." Albert the Alligator, Walt Kelly's Pogo Sunday Book  
The Core Coliseum: test out your 4e builds and fight to the death.