More Subtel Rule Changes from the RC

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Continuining where Melos left, i bring you more subtle changes that appear in the new Rules Compendium Essential that i could catch on the first read.  (Personal insights underlined in parenthese.)




1. RC 135 Arcana        (Detect Magic item seem to have disappeared from the Arcana)
Sense the Presence of Magic:
- DC: hard DC of the creature`s level. The creature automatically succeeds in detecting any source of magical energy within range that is five or more levels lower than it`s level.

2. RC 150 Perception
Find A Hidden Creature:  If a creature finds a hidden creature, it might point the hidden creature out to others, resulting in them knowing it`s locatio.

3. RC 214 Making Attacks
Step 6: if the attack power has more than one target, repeat steps 3 through 5 for each of them 


4. RC 218 Actions  (Before only Blind prevented Flanking based on sight See Low Slash)
Flanking: A creature cannot flank an enemy that it can`t see.


5. RC 235 Conditions  (Auto damage not halved anymore. MM or Rain of Steel anyone ?)
Weakened : The creature deals half damage. Two kinds of damage that it deals are not affected, however: ongoing damage and damage that isn`t generated by a attack roll.

6. RC 210 Flying       (Any Flying creatures can now make OA and Shift)
Remaining In The Air: A creature does not need to take any particular action to remain aloft, the creature is assumed to be flying as it fights, moves or take other actions. Howerver a flying creature falls the instant it is stunned, unless it can hover. (See below)


7. RC 242 Action 
Delay:  free action. A creature can take this action only when it`s  turn is about to start. End of turn phase is split in two. One part occurs when the creature delays and the second part when it later takes it`s delayed turn.


End of turn when the creature delays: Any effect that it has been sustaining ends. Also effect that last until the end of the creature`s turn now end  if they are beneficial to it and it`s allies – they cannot be prolonged by delaying. For instance, if the creature stunned an enemy until the end of it`s next trun, the stunned condition ends as soon as the creature delays.


End of turn after the creature acts: After the creature returns to the initiative order and takes it`s delayed turn, it makes a saving throw it normally at the end of it`s turn. In addition, harmful effect that last until the end of the creature`s turn now end-they cannot be avoided by delaying. For instance, if the creature is weakened until the end of it`s next turn, the weakened condition end only after it acts.

8. RC 243 Escape A Grab or Immobilizing Effect
Against multiple grabbers: if the creature is trying to escape and is grabbed by more than one source at once, the creature makes a single check against the highest of the grab DCs. The DC increase by 2 for each grabber beyond the first, to a maximum increase of 8.


9. RC 247 Ready An Action
Triggering opportunity actions: If a creature readies an action that normally triggers opportunity actions, it triggers them twice: when it readies the action and when it takes the action.


 Exemple: if an adventurer readies a ranged attack while adjacent to an enemy, he provokes an opportunity attack from that enemy. If he is still adjacent to an enemy when he makes the ranged attack, he provokes an opportunity attack again. 

10. RC 250 Squeeze      (Before Squeeze rediuced your space and not your actual size)
Reduce size: When a Large, Huge or Guargantua creature squeezes, it`s size category effectively decrease by one until the squeeze ends. For instance, a Large creature that squeezes is effectively Medium during the squeeze. As it`s size decreases, such a creature is leaving squares, so it might trigger opportunity actions such as opportunity attacks. It cannot reduce it`s size if it`s unable to move.

11. RC 257 Hit Points
Bloodied value: The bloodied value of a typical creature equals one half it`s maximum hit points. A creature is bloodied when it`s current hit points drop to it`s bloodied value or lower. Certain powers and effects only work against a bloodied target or work better against such a target. An object is never considered to be bloodied.


when an unbloodied creature is killed outright, the creature does not become bloodied in the process. It I just dead. This rule means a minion, which has only 1 hit point, is bloodied only if an attacker reduces the minion to 0 hit point but knocks it unconscious instead of killibg it.

12. RC 268 Weapons
Improvised weapons: This category includes anything that was not fashioned as a weapon, but that can be used as one. Exemple includes fists, rocks, chairs and tankards.


Melee: a melee weapon cannot be used with a ranged power or an area power that has the weapon keyword, unless the weapon has the light thrown or heavy thrown property or the weapon is thrown as an improvised ranged weapon.


Ranged: a ranged weapon cannot be used with a melee  power or a close power that has the weapon keyword, unless the weapon has the light thrown or heavy thrown property or the weapon is wielded as an improvised melee weapon.

13. RC 273 Weapons
Improvised weapons:  When a weapon is used as an improvised weapon, the weapon`s normal characteristics (such as properties, powers, bonuses and critical hit effects) do not apply. For instance, if an adventurer smacks an adjacent monster with his or her magic bow and scores a critical hit, the bow`s critical hit effect does not apply, since the adventurer is using the bow as an improvised melee weapon.

14. RC 308 Glossary   (Cause Fear and such compelling Powers aren't still a Force Movement)
Forced Movement: Movement that a creature is compelled to do, specifically a push, pull or a slide. A creature can be moved in other ways, such as through teleportation, but only pushes, pulls and slides are technically forced movement. 


15. RC 308 Glossary
Grabbed: While a creature is grabbed, it is immobilized. Maintaining this condition occupies whatever appendage, object or effect the grabber used to initiate the grab. This condition ends immediately on the creature if the grabber is subject to an effect that prevents it from taking actions, or if the creature ends up outside the range of the grabbing power or effect.


16. RC 308 Glossary  (Before hover allowed to remain in the air without moving and permitetd OA)
Hover: if a creature can hover, it can remain in the air if it is stunned. 


 






Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Cool, thanks!  It's nice to know they're clarifying a lot of things that were previously left to intuition and/or common sense.  Guess they realized there's no such thing as common sense among rules lawyers.

I particularly like the bits about grab and finding hidden creatures.
If your position is that the official rules don't matter, or that house rules can fix everything, please don't bother posting in forums about the official rules. To do so is a waste of everyone's time.
Bah.  Still didn't get a proper "Grabbed" condition, eh? 

Returned from hiatus; getting up to speed on 5e rules lawyering.

1. RC 135 Arcana        (Detect Magic item seem to have disappeared from the Arcana)

Sense the Presence of Magic:
- DC: hard DC of the creature`s level. The creature automatically succeeds in detecting any source of magical energy within range that is five or more levels lower than its level.


That makes sense. Lit candles are easy to spot from down the hall, but bonfires? They're tough even when you're standing next to them.

7. RC 242 Action 
Delay:  free action. A creature can take this action only when it`s  turn is about to start. End of turn phase is split in two. One part occurs when the creature delays and the second part when it later takes it`s delayed turn.

End of turn when the creature delays: Any effect that it has been sustaining ends. Also effect that last until the end of the creature`s turn now end  if they are beneficial to it and it`s allies – they cannot be prolonged by delaying. For instance, if the creature stunned an enemy until the end of it`s next trun, the stunned condition ends as soon as the creature delays.


End of turn after the creature acts: After the creature returns to the initiative order and takes it`s delayed turn, it makes a saving throw it normally at the end of it`s turn. In addition, harmful effect that last until the end of the creature`s turn now end-they cannot be avoided by delaying. For instance, if the creature is weakened until the end of it`s next turn, the weakened condition end only after it acts.


This is actually no change, it's just getting the official rules into a printed book (for the first time I think).


"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
I agree Warri.

But what about Items detection ? So how are we supposed to Detect Magic Items now ?  It's Automatic  ?

I highlighted a difference both to show that more powerful individual automatically detected lower magical energy and to demonstrate that Items level they were referring to is gone. I must say Detecting Magic Item has always been a nebulous affair in 4E and not explicitly written. Also, it was not easy to achieve.



Before it used to be:

Sense the Presence of Magic: 1 minute.
DC: DC 20 + one-half the level of a magic item, power (conjuration or zone), ritual, or magical phenomenon within range.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

magic items being automatic or explicitly a hard thing on a case basis is basically how I thought the game rolled.
I agree Warri.

But what about Items detection ? So how are we supposed to Detect Magic Items now ?  It's Automatic  ?

I highlighted a difference both to show that more powerful individual automatically detected lower magical energy and to demonstrate that Items level they were referring to is gone. I must say Detecting Magic Item has always been a nebulous affair in 4E and not explicitly written. Also, it was not easy to achieve.



Before it used to be:

Sense the Presence of Magic: 1 minute.
DC: DC 20 + one-half the level of a magic item, power (conjuration or zone), ritual, or magical phenomenon within range.



Presumably, a magic item is a "source of magic", and shows up automatically if it's at least 5 levels below your level, or if you make the check DC if it isn't.

It does seem weird that extremely weak sources of magic are more easily detected than extremely strong ones, but I guess it's consistent with the rules as a whole. 
Ranged: a ranged weapon cannot be used with a melee  power or a close power that has the weapon keyword, unless the weapon has the light thrown or heavy thrown property or the weapon is wielded as an improvised melee weapon.


Wow. This screws up several rogue and ranger powers. Blinding Barrage, Cloud of Steel, Daunting Barrage and Steel Entrapment now only work with daggers and shurikens. Spray of Arrows and Unstoppable Arrows now cannot be used with any weapon that actually shoots arrows. I cannot believe this was intended.

"My flying carpet is full of elves."

Ranged: a ranged weapon cannot be used with a melee  power or a close power that has the weapon keyword, unless the weapon has the light thrown or heavy thrown property or the weapon is wielded as an improvised melee weapon.


Wow. This screws up several rogue and ranger powers. Blinding Barrage, Cloud of Steel, Daunting Barrage and Steel Entrapment now only work with daggers and shurikens. Spray of Arrows and Unstoppable Arrows now cannot be used with any weapon that actually shoots arrows. I cannot believe this was intended.


Yeah, that is weird. It's reasonably sensible for close burst 1, but for other close effects it's excessively restrictive.
I would be inclined to argue that the line "Requirement: You must be wielding a ranged weapon" these powers generally include (or "wielding a crossbow" for the rogue powers) is another example of specific beating general – you can't usually use that kind of power while wielding a ranged weapon, but because they specifically let you and in fact require you to, it's fine. If you disagree, well, houserule time for the ranger at least.
I would be inclined to argue that the line "Requirement: You must be wielding a ranged weapon" these powers generally include (or "wielding a crossbow" for the rogue powers) is another example of specific beating general – you can't usually use that kind of power while wielding a ranged weapon, but because they specifically let you and in fact require you to, it's fine.



I noticed this too with the ranged weapons description and I wrote CS who said the same thing.  Since it has a requirement it trumps general.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
3. RC 214 Making Attacks 

Step 6: if the attack power has more than one target, repeat steps 3 through 5 for each of them 



This makes it seem like Area and Close attacks now require a damage roll for each target.  This is not the case, however.

Rules Compendium, page 223: "When making area attacks or close attacks, which use a single damage roll, but a separate attack roll for each target, rolling damage first is helpful."

Well Step #5 says deal damage. It doesn't necessarly mean rolling a new one if only a single one is generated for every attack roll made, like in the case of Bursts & Blasts. So you'll deal the established damage as the attack type tells you as i guess so. That's how i interpret it.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Does Rules Compendium tell whether free actions trigger as interrupts or reactions? This is pretty crucial in many powers, but it has been left vague.
Quoting the other thread on this RC changes:

"Triggered actions that are not immediate or opportunity actions work like immediate reactions, unless they need to be an interrupt in order to function. (p. 197)"

Whether it speaks explicitly to untriggered actions I don't know, don't have a copy yet.
 
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
Does Rules Compendium tell whether free actions trigger as interrupts or reactions? This is pretty crucial in many powers, but it has been left vague.

Reaction, unless it needs to be an interupt to work (like elven accuract).

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Quoting the other thread on this RC changes:

"Triggered actions that are not immediate or opportunity actions work like immediate reactions, unless they need to be an interrupt in order to function. (p. 197)"

Whether it speaks explicitly to untriggered actions I don't know, don't have a copy yet.
 


Well that breaks about a million and a half triggered free action powers, since they won't work when used as an interrupt or a reaction.  They need to resolve immediately following the trigger, not before the trigger or after the action is completed.
Quoting the other thread on this RC changes:

"Triggered actions that are not immediate or opportunity actions work like immediate reactions, unless they need to be an interrupt in order to function. (p. 197)"

Whether it speaks explicitly to untriggered actions I don't know, don't have a copy yet.
 


Well that breaks about a million and a half triggered free action powers, since they won't work when used as an interrupt or a reaction.  They need to resolve immediately following the trigger, not before it or after the action is completed.



Such as? 
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387

5. RC 235 Conditions  (Auto damage not halved anymore. MM or Rain of Steel anyone ?)
Weakened : The creature deals half damage. Two kinds of damage that it deals are not affected, however: ongoing damage and damage that isn`t generated by a attack roll.


6. RC 210 Flying       (Any Flying creatures can now make OA and Shift)
Remaining In The Air: A creature does not need to take any particular action to remain aloft, the creature is assumed to be flying as it fights, moves or take other actions. Howerver a flying creature falls the instant it is stunned, unless it can hover. (See below)


16. RC 308 Glossary  (Before hover allowed to remain in the air without moving and permitetd OA)
Hover: if a creature can hover, it can remain in the air if it is stunned. 







BTW, all of the above changes were made in the May 2010 update.
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
Such as? 

I almost got sarcastic, but maybe you haven't followed any of the timing debates.  It'll affect any power that triggers on hit or damage that resolves immediate after that trigger.  Also any free action that changes the result of a roll by having you reroll.

I'll start with level 2 utilities:
All-encompasing nature
Lore of Shom
Deadly Knowledge
Master of Deceit
Studied Casting
Arcane Mutterings
Nose for Trouble
Strategist's Epiphany (technically this one could be an interrupt)
Arcane Transport (changes dramatically if it can't happen mid-your action)
Arcane Insight
Feather Fall

Utility 2 helped by the ruling
Flash of Insight (no longer pushes the target away between hit and damage)

Level 6 Utilities:
Combat Surge
Boundless Energy
Stealthy Escape
Demoralize Foe (no longer works on enemies attack if you trigger an interrupt with damage for example)
Fast Talk
Haggle
Hasty Retreat
Faste's Chaos
Dark One's Own Luck

Quoting the other thread on this RC changes:

"Triggered actions that are not immediate or opportunity actions work like immediate reactions, unless they need to be an interrupt in order to function. (p. 197)"

Whether it speaks explicitly to untriggered actions I don't know, don't have a copy yet.
 


Well that breaks about a million and a half triggered free action powers, since they won't work when used as an interrupt or a reaction.  They need to resolve immediately following the trigger, not before it or after the action is completed.



Such as? 



Wand Implement Mastery for one.

-Polaris

Deadly Knowledge:


Trigger: Your attack bloodies an enemy or scores a critical hit against an enemy


Effect: The triggering attack deals extra damage equal to your Intelligence modifier to the enemy.



So you interrupt and your attack does more damage? What's the broken part?


Wand Implement Mastery for one.



Wand of Accuracy? Or something else? Wand of Accuracy isn't a triggered free action.

"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387

Deadly Knowledge:


Trigger: Your attack bloodies an enemy or scores a critical hit against an enemy


Effect: The triggering attack deals extra damage equal to your Intelligence modifier to the enemy.



So you interrupt and your attack does more damage? What's the broken part?

You are going to do the extra damage before you do damage?  You are going to do the extra damage when you get a critical hit, before you do damage?
Does this mean a demon's variable resistance works like an immediate reaction?
@Fitz:

Sure, why not.

If you play it as a reaction, you'd get the damage later.

I fail to see the game consequence. That is, what harm is done? Just because its odd doesn't seem like a harm.
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
The interrupt resolves before the damage roll, but that doesn't mean that the effect of the interrupt can actually occur before it. Since extra damage is always a modification to the damage roll, no matter when the "Effect" resolves, the instant they suffer the damage that the power is contributing is the instant they would have suffering the damage normally.
I fail to see the game consequence. That is, what harm is done? Just because its odd doesn't seem like a harm.

Well hell, you can work around almost any of them as long as everyone at the table it being reasonable.  That doesn't mean they all work as written though.

Anyway, at least its a rule.  Triggered Free Actions are now either interrupts if that's the only way they can work, or reactions.  Which means for example that Flurry of Blows occurs after the Monk's attack is resolved (but not necessarily complete action).  I'll do my normal things for rules I think don't work: use it whenever possible, ad-hoc it where its broken, and if one really bothers me write up the broken power in Errata.

Edit: Seperate question.  Did they make any change to interrupt to change it to interrupt an entire action (/move /attack)?  Or is still only interrupting the trigger?

The interrupt resolves before the damage roll, but that doesn't mean that the effect of the interrupt can actually occur before it.

Which is why it can't be an interrupt.  Interrupts resolve before the trigger resolves.  You can't be extra to nothing.
The interrupt resolves before the damage roll, but that doesn't mean that the effect of the interrupt can actually occur before it. Since extra damage is always a modification to the damage roll, no matter when the "Effect" resolves, the instant they suffer the damage that the power is contributing is the instant they would have suffering the damage normally.



Extra damage says no such thing in the PHB3 glossary.

 
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
I fail to see the game consequence. That is, what harm is done? Just because its odd doesn't seem like a harm.

Well hell, you can work around almost any of them as long as everyone at the table it being reasonable.



Granted

That doesn't mean they all work as written though.



Well, I think it clearly a change, but I question the notion that they are somehow broken. With my operating definition of broken being: "Leads to abusive results or simply cannot be understood how to resolve during play."


Anyway, at least its a rule.  Triggered Free Actions are now either interrupts if that's the only way they can work, or reactions.  Which means for example that Flurry of Blows occurs after the Monk's attack is resolved (but not necessarily complete action).  I'll do my normal things for rules I think don't work: use it whenever possible, ad-hoc it where its broken, and if one really bothers me write up the broken power in Errata.



Personally I think it works in more cases than not, but your SOP sounds about right to me.


Edit: Seperate question.  Did they make any change to interrupt to change it to interrupt an entire action (/move /attack)?  Or is still only interrupting the trigger?



I don't have RC yet nor do I know if that text was a paraphrase so I can't answer that.
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
I concede that extra damage being "a modification to a damage roll that occurs at some point in time" is not explicitly spelled out, but that's basically how it works. I mean, just look at Warlock's Curse.
The change to weakening rules significantly improves my violent pacifist cleric/wizard build.  One of his main healing resources is healer's mercy, but none of his damaging powers have attack rolls.

He is effectively immune from the weakening condition unless he is making a melee basic attack for some reason.
I concede that extra damage being "a modification to a damage roll that occurs at some point in time" is not explicitly spelled out, but that's basically how it works. I mean, just look at Warlock's Curse.



That would imply you need a damage roll. Extra damage can apply to a static damage attack as far as I'm aware. A modification to the damage of a power is probably a better summary.

 1d6 + 1[W] vs 1[W] + 1d6 just doesn't seem to be broken.

If someone could illustrate some harm/abuse stemming from it I'd be more interested. 
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
I concede that extra damage being "a modification to a damage roll that occurs at some point in time" is not explicitly spelled out, but that's basically how it works. I mean, just look at Warlock's Curse.



That would imply you need a damage roll. Extra damage can apply to a static damage attack as far as I'm aware. A modification to the damage of a power is probably a better summary.

 1d6 + 1[W] vs 1[W] + 1d6 just doesn't seem to be broken.

If someone could illustrate some harm/abuse stemming from it I'd be more interested. 

You're correct. It's not a "modification to the damage roll" but rather a "modification to the damage instance."

4E doesn't want to speak in terms of damage instances, but that's fundamentally how it works.
Plague: not trying to be as nitpicky as it's going to sound, but...details are important.

are the typo's all yours, or actually in the book?

Subtel
locatio
It I just dead.

etc.

Amazed at how obtuse people can be since 1972.
Here is the response I got when I asked CS a bunch of questions about Fist of One Hundred Strikes.  Does it help with any of these timing concerns that seem to have cropped up?
Show
Here is the attack power's information:

Fist of One Hundred Strikes [Attack Technique] Monk Attack 7
Encounter - Full Discipline, Implement, Psionic
Standard Action Melee touch
Target: One or two creatures
Attack: Dexterity vs. Reflex
Hit: 2d6 + Dexterity modifier damage, and you shift 1 square.

1) Is this two completely separate attacks like Twin Strike?
Answer:  Yes.

2) Do you have to declare both targets before the first attack roll?
Answer:  Yes.

3) If I trigger Flurry of Blows when the first attack hits, does the second target count as having been targeted by the (first) attack or not?
Answer:  Yes, both creatures are targeted at the same time though you will not be able to use the Flurry of Blows on both targets as the attacks are made separately.  {This seems like a strange thing to say.  I think they mean you can't use Flurry's extra benefit on both creatures. --Andrelai}

4) If I trigger Flurry of Blows when the first attack hits, does the Flurry damage happen before or after the Fist of One Hundred Strikes damage?
Answer:  Before. Flurry of Blows is a free action that triggers when you hit. As it is a free action it happens immediately when the trigger condition is met.

5) If the first attack hits, do I apply its damage and shift before the second attack, or do I make the second attack immediately and apply the damage simultaneously if both hit, shifting only once?
(keeping in mind that the shift in question comes from the hit line of the power Fist of One Hundred Strikes [Attack Technique])
Answer:  The shift granted by the hit would happen after both of the attack rolls for Fist of One Hundred Strikes [Attack Technique] have been made (if you are targeting 2 creatures with this power). You would make the attack roll for each target of the power, then the damage roll for each target of the power (if you hit on both of the attack rolls), then you would shift 1 square. The attack power cannot be split up between the two attacks that you can take with this power, both the attack rolls happen at the same time and the shift only happens one time: after the attack and damage rolls have been made.

5a) How many damage rolls are there, assuming both attacks hit?
Answer:  If you hit with both attack rolls, you would do a total of 2 damage rolls (one damage roll for each target that you hit).

6) Can I hit the first target, deal damage & shift, activate Flurry of Blows on the second target, then make the second attack roll on the second target?
Answer:   No, the shift granted by the hit would happen after both of the attack rolls for Fist of One Hundred Strikes [Attack Technique] have been made (if you are targeting 2 creatures with this power). You would make the attack roll for each target of the power, then the damage roll for each target of the power (if you hit on both of the attack rolls, you would do two damage rolls- one for each target), then you would shift 1 square. The attack power cannot be split up between the two attacks that you can take with this power, both the attack rolls happen at the same time and the shift only happens one time: after the attack and damage rolls have been made.
If your position is that the official rules don't matter, or that house rules can fix everything, please don't bother posting in forums about the official rules. To do so is a waste of everyone's time.
Putting the CS Bashing on hold for a moment and just assuming that they're right... this really is one of the stupidest rules decisions that they've made since 4E came out. I mean, it's not the Unfortunate Implications thing so much as it's just so contrary to the seeming design intent of so many monky powers. Bleh.
Putting the CS Bashing on hold for a moment and just assuming that they're right... this really is one of the stupidest rules decisions that they've made since 4E came out. I mean, it's not the Unfortunate Implications thing so much as it's just so contrary to the seeming design intent of so many monky powers. Bleh.


Which part?  All of it?

I should add that I did ask for more clarification on item 3.  I really don't think they were completely familiar with how Flurry of Blows works when they wrote their response.  I will post their reply the moment I get it.
If your position is that the official rules don't matter, or that house rules can fix everything, please don't bother posting in forums about the official rules. To do so is a waste of everyone's time.
Putting the CS Bashing on hold for a moment and just assuming that they're right... this really is one of the stupidest rules decisions that they've made since 4E came out. I mean, it's not the Unfortunate Implications thing so much as it's just so contrary to the seeming design intent of so many monky powers. Bleh.


Which part?  All of it?

I should add that I did ask for more clarification on item 3.  I really don't think they were completely familiar with how Flurry of Blows works when they wrote their response.  I will post their reply the moment I get it.

No the rules compendium update that you pick all targets at the start of the power and they must all be within range. It's just so laughably counter-intuitive.
regarding free actions interrupting to deal extra damage.

it makes sense to me that interrupting something that way can deal extra damage, it's an interrupt, sure, but it's working more as an interrupt of a kind of and then you have more!
No the rules compendium update that you pick all targets at the start of the power and they must all be within range. It's just so laughably counter-intuitive.



  I'm having a hard time seeing how that's counter-intuitive.  Could you elaborate?
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Such as? 

I almost got sarcastic, but maybe you haven't followed any of the timing debates.  It'll affect any power that triggers on hit or damage that resolves immediate after that trigger.  Also any free action that changes the result of a roll by having you reroll.

I'll start with level 2 utilities:
All-encompasing nature
Lore of Shom
Deadly Knowledge
Master of Deceit
Studied Casting
Arcane Mutterings
Nose for Trouble
Strategist's Epiphany (technically this one could be an interrupt)
Arcane Transport (changes dramatically if it can't happen mid-your action)
Arcane Insight
Feather Fall

Utility 2 helped by the ruling
Flash of Insight (no longer pushes the target away between hit and damage)

Level 6 Utilities:
Combat Surge
Boundless Energy
Stealthy Escape
Demoralize Foe (no longer works on enemies attack if you trigger an interrupt with damage for example)
Fast Talk
Haggle
Hasty Retreat
Faste's Chaos
Dark One's Own Luck



Why do you feel that reroll powers don't work as interrupts?  It seems reasonable enough to me: you make a roll, dislike it, and then the reroll power lets you "go back" and replace the roll with a new one.  It can retroactively change the result of the first roll, just like immediate interrupts have always done.

For something like Feather Fall, it hardly seems to make a difference.  The trigger is that you start to fall, so who cares whether the action interrupts the trigger or not?  The trigger still happens either way.