Mystra...?

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Could anybody please point me towards where I can find out more about the death of Midnight/Mystra, Cyric's involvement and anybody else that might be involved?

Also, I read in these here forums around a year ago, people talking about how Mystra's sentient being may very-well be locked in some type of wand/cudgel/club/staff? Anybody know anything about this?

Any help would be great. Thanks so much!
I could point you in that direction but i'd be lyiing.


there is no novel on thesubject, what you read is nothing more than speculation
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
I see. Well, in the FRCG they do mention that Cyric killed Mystra. I thought it may have come from a novel.

The sentient weapon is all fictitious then, eh? I love the idea, personally. (I am using that as my paragon main quest for my home game, but shhhh, don't tell my players.) lol

Thanks, dragon.
You might check out Thomas M. Reid's Empyrean Odyssey. It contains some info on the whole divine cataclysm.

Cheers
Yes, Empyrean Odyssey is the place where it has Mystra's death "revealed" in 4E.  Other books talk a little bit about the aftermath, but truthfully very little.

However, it's written such that it's all sort of off-page, then interpreted through a sort of vision.  It's not at all the "we saw it all happen" kind of thing in the old Gods-war Avatar novels of the Time of Troubles.

So honestly, although the current game system materials all say Mystra's dead, there's a gigantic amount of room to play with what "really" happened.  At least for now, nothing more has been revealed.  Greenwood's new series, starting with Elminster Must Die! could, possibly, shed more light on what happened.

@jorunhast i really want to read the new elminster series but ive never read any of his stuff yet. think i could drop in on this series and not be too, like wayyy too far off?
 
You might check out Thomas M. Reid's Empyrean Odyssey. It contains some info on the whole divine cataclysm. Cheers




The Esteamed Mr. Reid also had posated somewhere here in the HATE threads of that scene that it was a vission of what happened and may not be the whole truth.... okay not those words exactly, but pretty much.

I'd do a search for a link, but I'd sooner have Fox at Twilight beat me up....
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
I've always been surprised when I hear from people that didn't take it as a vision, lol. It seemed pretty clear to me in my reading of the books *shrugs* Oh well, though
@jorunhast i really want to read the new elminster series but ive never read any of his stuff yet. think i could drop in on this series and not be too, like wayyy too far off?
 


Absolutely, I don't see why not.  Jump right in!  The new Elminster story starts in 4E, after all the changes have happened in the setting.  Plus, although I haven't started this particular novel yet, Greenwood always (at least to me) writes in a LOT of detail that will get things arranged nicely for the reader.  His writing style isn't what everyone is used to (lots of Realms-speak), but I've always loved his books.  And I've heard good things about it, and that people love the epilogue in particular for some juicy details that are a bit of a cliffhanger for the next book.
I've always been surprised when I hear from people that didn't take it as a vision, lol. It seemed pretty clear to me in my reading of the books *shrugs* Oh well, though


That's funny... in Reid's book, I definitely knew it was a vision.  They had it all set up so that what's-her-name (and the others, I won't name them so as not to spoil it) were visiting the visionary area of Savras to get some forehand knowledge.  And then it turned out to be a big deal that, well... again, I won't spoil it for those who want to read it.

But I will say, I was very glad that the gods were distant the whole time, and not interacting 1:1 with mortals.  At least not obviously.  Better to keep the gods mysterious, powerful and somewhat ephemeral, even on their own planes.
Thanks again. Here's a link to the Empyrean Odyssey if anybody cares to check it out. I'm also glad that I could jump right into this new Elminster series straight away. I've always wanted to read Elminster books, but just didn't want to trodge through them all this far out of it.

Anyhow, thanks again!
Mystra has "died" a few times in the FR literature. Start with the Avatar trilogy for the first go around (2E I think), then follow it up with the Empyrean Odyssey trilogy for round two (3E I think).

Both are fun reads...  Smile
I still think someone could discover Mystra in the shower in a couple of years.

Author of Elementalism in Atlas Games' Occult Lore. DAZ 3D

How many Soap Operas do you watch?
s**** Laughing

Author of Elementalism in Atlas Games' Occult Lore. DAZ 3D

I hope she stays dead.



+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

All hail Shar! 



-1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Lord Bane will spear your LAdy Shar... and the world will see her fall...
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Only if she's really ugly. Hanali Celanil on the other hand...
It's spelled Corellon Larethian, not Correlon, Correllon, Correlllon, Corellion, Correlian or any other way of getting it wrong. I'm a total grognard and I still play 4E.
is way too skinny and needs to eat a few porkchops.  All Hail Sune!

"Be careful to choose your enemies well.  Friends don't much matter.  But the choice of enemies is very important."  

- Oscar Wilde

I think the wet T-Shirt award goes to Beshaba.

Beshaba_p92.jpg
By Selune's twin moons.....
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Mystra has "died" a few times in the FR literature. Start with the Avatar trilogy for the first go around (2E I think), then follow it up with the Empyrean Odyssey trilogy for round two (3E I think).

Both are fun reads...  Smile



Lets not leave out Mystryl, and the Netheril Trilogy.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
I think the wet T-Shirt award goes to Beshaba.



Only because they couldn't publish an appropriate picture for Sharess without needing to slap an adults only label on the book.  ;)
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
I think the wet T-Shirt award goes to Beshaba.



Only because they couldn't publish an appropriate picture for Sharess without needing to slap an adults only label on the book.  ;)


I would think that the goddess of nothingness and emptyness would be flat as a board.



Youre thinking of Shar, Sharess is the goddess of cats and sensuality. I guess shes hot, if youre into girls with 6 boobs! HAHAHAHAHA!

Actually Eilistraee should win, but she dont ever wear wet t-shirts, or anything for that matter.

I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there

>> Implying that someone with six boobs isn't hot


The only problem would be not having six arms to take full advantage of that.


Also, everyone knows Corellon would win a wet t-shirt contest.

It's spelled Corellon Larethian, not Correlon, Correllon, Correlllon, Corellion, Correlian or any other way of getting it wrong. I'm a total grognard and I still play 4E.

>> Implying that someone with six boobs isn't hot


The only problem would be not having six arms to take full advantage of that.


Also, everyone knows Corellon would win a wet t-shirt contest.




HAHAHAHAHA! Good one Nai!

except for the Corellon bit, I could of done with out that mental picutre!
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
The only problem would be not having six arms to take full advantage of that.

Also, everyone knows Corellon would win a wet t-shirt contest.



Are you suggesting that Corellon is fat now, and has man-boobs?


EEWWWW!!!


 

No, Corellon is as slim and beautiful as ever. Just, y'know, he/she's both male *and* female. And the female part's pretty smokin'.
It's spelled Corellon Larethian, not Correlon, Correllon, Correlllon, Corellion, Correlian or any other way of getting it wrong. I'm a total grognard and I still play 4E.
Mystra has "died" a few times in the FR literature. Start with the Avatar trilogy for the first go around (2E I think), then follow it up with the Empyrean Odyssey trilogy for round two (3E I think).

Both are fun reads...  



Lets not leave out Mystryl, and the Netheril Trilogy.




I didn't include that trilogy because Karsus didn't actually kill Mystryl, just stole her power for a hot minute. However, that is also a great read and one of my favorites.
No, Corellon is as slim and beautiful as ever. Just, y'know, he/she's both male *and* female. And the female part's pretty smokin'.


Lady parts plus man parts at the same time isn't beautiful, it's gross.  Sorry, no contest winner there.


All I can say on the subject can be summarised by a quote from one of her daughters:

"Oh, Mother Mystra, come back to us."

and I agree, bring back Mystra 2.0. Not even Alassra deserves this end!

My approach to the NPCs of previous editions.

Show
I always saw the High Level NPCs as shepherds of the Realms not its defenders. Making sure that not too many sheep were lost as they milled around (as they are wont to do) and bringing on the young'uns into the job. In that way a shepherd never has time to go and hunt down all of the wolves but is pretty dashed effective at keeping them away from the sheep when they rear their heads.
"It was a puzzle why things were always dragged kicking and screaming. No one ever seemed to want to, for example, lead them gently by the hand." - Terry Pratchett
No, Corellon is as slim and beautiful as ever. Just, y'know, he/she's both male *and* female. And the female part's pretty smokin'.


Lady parts plus man parts at the same time isn't beautiful, it's gross.  Sorry, no contest winner there.




 


Depends on your tastes. Me, I'm also an elven god, so, well. ;)



It's spelled Corellon Larethian, not Correlon, Correllon, Correlllon, Corellion, Correlian or any other way of getting it wrong. I'm a total grognard and I still play 4E.
All I can say on the subject can be summarised by a quote from one of her daughters:

"Oh, Mother Mystra, come back to us."

and I agree, bring back Mystra 2.0. Not even Alassra deserves this end!



Wouldn't this actually be Mystra v. 10? 
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Wouldn't this actually be Mystra v. 10? 



Nope. The original Mystra (the one after Mystrl), who got herself smoten by Helm (in possibly the dumbest narrative moment I have ever seen), who empowered El and the Sisters and had a far more neutral take on the use of Magic in the Realms.

...who can hopefully be reborn from a fragment of her divine essence stored in someone (Alassra, I am almost certainly looking at you).

...and yes, I know you were probably (hopefully) being facetious.



My approach to the NPCs of previous editions.

Show
I always saw the High Level NPCs as shepherds of the Realms not its defenders. Making sure that not too many sheep were lost as they milled around (as they are wont to do) and bringing on the young'uns into the job. In that way a shepherd never has time to go and hunt down all of the wolves but is pretty dashed effective at keeping them away from the sheep when they rear their heads.
"It was a puzzle why things were always dragged kicking and screaming. No one ever seemed to want to, for example, lead them gently by the hand." - Terry Pratchett
...and yes, I know you were probably (hopefully) being facetious.



Yes, I was being sarcastic.    She has died and had some other mortal rise to her position more than should happen.  She certainly comes off as rather... incompetent is the best word I can find.

I remember reading something, a Dungeon writer's guidelines or submission guidelines in general for D&D, where the said they didn't want to see any more FR plot pitches involving blowing up the moon.  They should have been as concerned about the turnover rate of Mystra as well.  ;)
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Midnight/mystra was incompentent......Mystra was not
a mask everyone has at least two of, one they wear in public and another they wear in private.....
Midnight/mystra was incompentent......Mystra was not



That's pretty much the long and short of it...

... I wonder how many of the current crop of Mystra-haters hated her back when she actually was Mystra, rather than being the Midnight-Mystra.

My approach to the NPCs of previous editions.

Show
I always saw the High Level NPCs as shepherds of the Realms not its defenders. Making sure that not too many sheep were lost as they milled around (as they are wont to do) and bringing on the young'uns into the job. In that way a shepherd never has time to go and hunt down all of the wolves but is pretty dashed effective at keeping them away from the sheep when they rear their heads.
"It was a puzzle why things were always dragged kicking and screaming. No one ever seemed to want to, for example, lead them gently by the hand." - Terry Pratchett
Who among the ascended gods of the ToT actually turned out to be competent?

Midnight-Mystra was initially written as a lovesick idiot who denied other gods magic based on her whimsy toward good rather than neutrality.  Declared incompetent at a Gods' trial, she has since managed not only to get killed on her own plane, but has led her daughters and all the rest of her Chosen either to insanity or near-complete ruin.

Cyric has consistently been manipulated and helped in massive ways by other gods, starting with Mask-as-a-sword, then he went insane by his own hand... lost a major portion of his power to a dead soul, read his own book of lies by mistake, and ultimately was shown being manipulated by Shar into killing Midnight-Mystra which reulted in imprisonment.

Kelemvor retained Myrkul's Wall, despite his claims toward "fairness" in judging the dead (remember how he treated Adon?), and eventually was declared Incompetent at a Gods' trial by his fellow deities.

Being fledgling dieties it makes alot of sense they would be stumbling with their newfound existance. Getting phenomenal cosmic power without understanding it fully and stepping into the game of deciet and manipulation that dieties play makes it logical that such vurnerable new dieties would risk immediate destruction. It's only the divine supra-conscience and the contigencies it has planned for their ascended mortals that keep the company of the Lynx from being immediately sundered by rival dieties during the ToT.

Of the three Kel seems to have matured into his new role the fastest, with Cyric still clearly showing his infantile state as a god well into the 15th century Realms despite his greater god status granted by his portfolio's. In my view Midnight/Mystra was changing at a very high pace before the Spellplague hit, and despite her clear favor for Good aligned clergy was learning how to deal with the more selfish or evil parts of the Art.
 
Who among the ascended gods of the ToT actually turned out to be competent?

Kelemvor retained Myrkul's Wall, despite his claims toward "fairness" in judging the dead (remember how he treated Adon?), and eventually was declared Incompetent at a Gods' trial by his fellow deities.




Well to fair to Kel, he did rejudge all those souls in the Wall, and any way he didnt actually ascend to godhood, until like 10 years after the Time of Troubles.

And you already know what I think of Cyric, so im not even gonna go there!
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Midnight/mystra was incompentent......Mystra was not



Sure she was.  She died.  They all died.  No one dies as much as Mystra.  If Ao came to me and asked me to become the new god of Magic I would tell him to take a hike, or to just kill me now because if he forced me to be the god of magic I would be dead soon anyway.

(and much of the Mstra hate -- my personal dislike for her anyway -- isn't because of the ToT, it's all forms of her because of the Mary Sue-ness of her and her Chosen.)
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Midnight/mystra was incompentent......Mystra was not



Sure she was.  She died.  They all died.  No one dies as much as Mystra.  If Ao came to me and asked me to become the new god of Magic I would tell him to take a hike, or to just kill me now because if he forced me to be the god of magic I would be dead soon anyway.

(and much of the Mstra hate -- my personal dislike for her anyway -- isn't because of the ToT, it's all forms of her because of the Mary Sue-ness of her and her Chosen.)


Blame the novel authors, they wrote her that way.
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