9/13/2010 MM: "Something Wicked This Way Comes, Part 2"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Making Magic, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.
While the reflection of the two counter types is nice from an aesthetic vantage point, intermixing +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters fails miserably in actual play. The reason we limit ourselves in each block to only one of those counter types is that having more than one makes it impossible to look at the board state and know what's going on. As game play is king in Magic, the idea of intermixing +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters was never seriously considered.


Didn't they fix that back in Time Spiral?

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.

Didn't they fix that back in Time Spiral?



They made the rule that +1 counters negates -1 counters and vice versa, but I assume that MaRo is talking about the difficulty of keeping track in an entire set where there are lots of cards with counters but some of them are +1s while others are -1s.
While the reflection of the two counter types is nice from an aesthetic vantage point, intermixing +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters fails miserably in actual play. The reason we limit ourselves in each block to only one of those counter types is that having more than one makes it impossible to look at the board state and know what's going on. As game play is king in Magic, the idea of intermixing +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters was never seriously considered.


Didn't they fix that back in Time Spiral?



? No, they added the state based effect that removed counters, but you still have the problem of having -1/-1 counters on some permanents and +1/+1 on others. Very confusing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

An interesting article, nothing too mind blowing. Interesting that they tried Affinity at all, considering that without Affinity for Artifacts on Artifacts, you won't capture the feeling of Mirrodin.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I wonder what they've got up thier sleeves for the GDS2? Perhaps a YMTC running along side it... perhaps the public voting contestants out? Should be interesting.
… and then, the squirrels came.
I don't understand why they just didn't go for a variable number of artifacts for metalcraft in the mechanic. Mark mentioned how they want to try to bring back popular old mechanics more often, but making metalcraft always be 3 artifacts seems like they limited the potential of the mechanic already.
 
Something that stuck out immediately to me was something like "Metalcraft-3" for the big set, and tinkering with numbers in the smaller sets to apply the mechanic across a variety of power levels or even types of cards to be made.
I say Magic's first villain was Nevinyrral, but anyway...

I think this is the first time I've heard that Mirrodin was the high-water mark for Magic sales.  You ask me, it's all about the shiny silver wrapper.

I'm infuriated that they keep making this excuse about how +1s and -1s in the same game would be confusing.  That might have been true before the "antimatter" rule, but certainly not now.  Each permanent can only have one type of these counters; in most cases, the permanent itself, or an enchantment on it, will be responsible for what those counters are, so you'll know what the counters are if you know what the permanent is.  And it's not that hard to use nickels as +1 and pennies as -1, or two different colors of dice, or little glass stones that are flat-side-down for +1s and flat-side-up (so they wobble a bit when the table shakes) for -1s.  IT IS NOT THAT HARD!!!  I think R&D gets confused because they're playing with fake cards that are often just a blank white card with a name and a number scrawled on it, the abilities of which are always changing.  What they need to do is play a bunch of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor sealed; they'll see that having some cards do +1 and others do -1 is NOT THAT HARD.  You're choking off a huge vein of design space because you're vastly overestimating how difficult a calculation this is in actual practical circumstances (which you aren't in).

The Mirrodin reprints make me unhappy.  If Mirrodin sold so well, that means lots of players already have these cards, and probably don't need more of them.  New explorations of the conceps would have been preferable (granted the set also contains many of those).

Also, please don't make more Affinity.  It's just not a good mechanic, especially given that you overprice a card in the first place so that you can underpay for it with affinity.  This is the worst kind of collectible card design there is - just make it so the guy who has the most of a thing wins.  (I'm not much of a fan of Relentless Rats either, though at least there it's in-flavor.)  There need to be mechanics that reward you for only having one of a card in your deck.  MaRo keeps killing these because he thinks they're bad, which is further proof that, while he has a lot of good ideas, he's not always right.

Also - Gobin Replica's ability is stupidly overcosted since it used to work with combat damage on the stack.  So now that combat damage no longer goes on the stack, how about you Oracle Goblin Replica to have a lower activation cost?  Or come up with some ability that will let it still do the stack trick despite not having rules that allow this (such as an "if this was put into the graveyard during combat without being sacrificed" death trigger)?  Your eratta policy is to make cards work the way they did when most recently printed - Goblin Replica has never been reprinted under new rules, it needs eratta to work the way it originally did.
My New Phyrexia Writing Credits My M12 Writing Credits
As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing. --Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi
Yes, theWeatherlight Saga ended with what appeared to be the end of Magic's most famous bad boys. But do great villains ever really die? No, they do not.




Could this be a slight hint to Yawgmoth coming back later in the block?
I don't understand why they just didn't go for a variable number of artifacts for metalcraft in the mechanic. Mark mentioned how they want to try to bring back popular old mechanics more often, but making metalcraft always be 3 artifacts seems like they limited the potential of the mechanic already.
 
Something that stuck out immediately to me was something like "Metalcraft-3" for the big set, and tinkering with numbers in the smaller sets to apply the mechanic across a variety of power levels or even types of cards to be made.

Since metalcraft is an ability word, not a keyword, there's no inherent tie to three. They just used three to keep things simple and consistent on its first introduction.


That Mindslaver image is making me jump for joy. I've been waiting for that particular rules change since 2004!

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

After wading through Returning to Mirrodin (Nice Art pieces) and then all of Something Wicked

This Way Comes, Part 2 
for a single preview with Metalcraft; Metalcraft what? oh ya "3" phttt!

A Very slow start for a week 2. Come on WoC give some momentum,  impress!

Formerly Magemaster44 who joined in 2002

Now that you had to choose between dealing damage and getting the effect, we could be much more aggressive in what they did.


I've been waiting over a year to see those words, Maro.  So thanks for that.


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I've been waiting over a year to stop seeing those words, monkeys who can't make a basic forum work.  So thanks for that.

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

I've been waiting over a year to stop seeing those words, monkeys who can't make a basic forum work.  So thanks for that.

MaRo doesn't have anything to do with fixing up the forum; complaining to him about the forum is like blaming the bakery manager at the supermarket for the poor service you got at the meat counter.

If you want to complain about the state of the forum, feel free. But you'll get better results if you do it where the people who are actually responsible for the forum's upkeep are watching.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

I wasn't complaining to him, I was merely ranting in the place where I was posting anyway.  And the guy in the bakery may well be curious if the butcher department's service is discouraging customers from browsing.  But I'm hardly expecting Mark to come fix the code.


And as for the hq team, they're too busy decorating their helmets with stickers.  But the problem has been well documented.  Besides, they're hard at work on creating new bugs that didn't even exist a year ago, like not seeing updates to threads if you're not logged in, or pasting text into a post and having it insert at a completely different location.

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

The real question is: does this mean that affinity is gone for good, or did you just think that Affinity+Mirrodin=Touchy?
76125763 wrote:
Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.
About the playtesting with +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters in the same set not working out:
I've thought of 4 ways to keep track of which counters are +1/+1 and which ones are -1/-1.
Show
1) Place +1/+1 counters on the card's art. Place -1/-1 counters on the textbox. (Upper portion of card=positive, Down=negative)

2) When using coins, use heads for +1/+1, tails for -1/-1.

3) Use silvery coins for +1/+1, copperish for -1/-1. Silver has a positive, strong-ish feel to it, while the brownish red of copper can be reminicent of rust or blood.

4) Print cards with punch-out counter chips. (In the same slot as token cards.)
The chips could be printed on both sides - One side is silver and has "+1/+1" written on it, the other side is copper with -1/-1 written on it. They don't have to be round, they can be sqaure or have some cool emblem shape that fit together to stack up. The stack would look like a growing power bar that points upwards or downwards, like a "<<<" or "[[[[[" rotated upwards or downwards on the card surface.
The chips will also reinforce the mental color coding among the player base that silver= +, copper= -, should they play a game using coins for counters.


I love imprint! Even though some cards like Isochron Sceptor were annoying to play against, the ability to make your own magic wand still fascinated me to no end and it's still one of my favorite cards. I also like it when cards can gain different characteristics in every game, depending on the conditions of that game and the cards that come.

I hope cards with these qualities can be a fixture in Magic somehow. What if Imprint wasn't a keyword, and just used some phrasing like "When this CIP, exile a card from your hand under this?"

While some Imprint cards like Spellweaver Helix might be hard to grasp, other cards don't seem a whole lot more complicated than Oblivion Ring to me. 

This is especially true for effects where the mind can process the effect's meaning in the order that you read it. For example, with Duplicant, it must be like: "Ok, I get to remove something. Oh, I get another bonus based on what I removed?"
Goblin Artisans - A Magic Design Blog by GDS2 Contestants and Collaborators
The real question is: does this mean that affinity is gone for good, or did you just think that Affinity+Mirrodin=Touchy?

I would say the latter. Affinity would be far less touchy a subject if it wasn't affinity for artifacts and it wasn't Mirrodin.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

That Mindslaver image is making me jump for joy. I've been waiting for that particular rules change since 2004!



What, the removal of mana burn?

The real question is: does this mean that affinity is gone for good, or did you just think that Affinity+Mirrodin=Touchy?



The article's context strongly implies affinity will return someplace that isn't Mirrodin and is not expected to have many artifacts (they should have learned their lesson about treating artifacts as being limited in quantity back when they made Tolarian Academy right next to Serra's Sanctum - remember, no Leylines back then, and only a few enchantments that were both cheap and powerful, compared to things like Ornithopter and Ankh of Mishra).  I think "affinity for cards in hand" or even "affinity for half your life total" could work.  "Affinity for poison counters" would be hilarious, and of course you could do tribal affinity for tribal spells - artifacts that cost less for each Goblin, enchantments that cost less for each Elf.  You could probably also jury-rig affinity that worked on activation costs rather than mana costs, letting you make invoker-type abilities that suddenly get lots easier to use if you fulfill their system requirements.

Even so, I maintain that affinity is not a great mechanic and I'm not eager to see it back.


About the playtesting with +1/+1 counters and -1/-1 counters in the same set not working out:
I've thought of 4 ways to keep track of which counters are +1/+1 and which ones are -1/-1.



Oh, there's more than that, it's just that Wizards has a massive blind spot about this whole subject - as I said it's probably based on their playtesting experience, where dudes who've been working hard (or even hardly working - that too can take a toll, positive experiences can be stressful especially when you're someone who likes puzzles and such), and are brain-fried after a long day of inputting info into a database, sit down to a game table with cards labeled "Braincat" and "Magic Pants" and such, try and remember what those cards currently do, and THEN have to process +1 and -1 counters, which somehow can't be distinctive plastic meeples or the like even though this is happening in an office filled with games and toys.  Little wonder that they get confused, but unfortunately they can't figure out that we might fare better, because they're terribly confused that even one 8-year-old (or his parents) will fail to buy a booster pack because of a difficult gameplay experience.

I hope cards with these qualities can be a fixture in Magic somehow. What if Imprint wasn't a keyword, and just used some phrasing like "When this CIP, exile a card from your hand under this?"



That's exactly what it already is.  Go read Clone Shell again - it says "When this comes into play, exile a card from your hand; later, do stuff with the exiled card".  "Imprinted" is no longer used, which I think is a shame since it's very flavorful, but it's not a call I feel I can argue with since the reasons here are fairly legitimate.
My New Phyrexia Writing Credits My M12 Writing Credits
As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing. --Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi
Is anyone else constantly getting un-subscribed from this thread?
My New Phyrexia Writing Credits My M12 Writing Credits
As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing. --Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi
+1/+1 and -1/-1 counters interaction doesn't really play well with modular. Under the current rules, if enough -1/-1 counters are placed on a modular creature to kill it, you'd get to transfer all of them but if its insufficient the you'd only get to transfer the excess +1/+1 counters when the creature eventually dies. No idea why they don't want sunburst though.
I'm infuriated that they keep making this excuse about how +1s and -1s in the same game would be confusing.


Really? Infuriated? Over something like this? I'd suggest some relaxation exercises or something, then, because that can't be healthy.

IT IS NOT THAT HARD!!!  I think R&D gets confused because they're playing with fake cards that are often just a blank white card with a name and a number scrawled on it, the abilities of which are always changing.  What they need to do is play a bunch of Lorwyn/Shadowmoor sealed; they'll see that having some cards do +1 and others do -1 is NOT THAT HARD.  You're choking off a huge vein of design space because you're vastly overestimating how difficult a calculation this is in actual practical circumstances (which you aren't in).


You're vastly overestimating how easy it is to keep track of that stuff. Personally, I carry only one kind of counter with me when I'm playing Magic, not counting token cards and dice and stuff. In some games, with some decks, I can easily use a dozen or more at a time, so I'd never have enough change on me if some of those had to be one kind of something and others had to be something else. Sure, it's not THAT hard, but why make it harder unnecessarily? Likewise, it's not THAT hard to divide by three, keep track of phasing or banding, or remove some cards from the game face up and others face down, but it's hard enough in addition to everything else going on in a game that I'm glad we don't have to do them too often. How much design space do you think they're losing by not having +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters in the same block, really?

Also - Gobin Replica's ability is stupidly overcosted since it used to work with combat damage on the stack.  So now that combat damage no longer goes on the stack, how about you Oracle Goblin Replica to have a lower activation cost?  Or come up with some ability that will let it still do the stack trick despite not having rules that allow this (such as an "if this was put into the graveyard during combat without being sacrificed" death trigger)?  Your eratta policy is to make cards work the way they did when most recently printed - Goblin Replica has never been reprinted under new rules, it needs eratta to work the way it originally did.


I doubt they're reprinting Goblin Replica (they've previewed Sylvok Replica, but as far as I know not any others yet; if I'm right then the cycle of replicas will be partially reprints and partially new, and this won't be the first time that's happened). So the new red replica will probably have a lower activation cost or else do something completely different. As for the rest of your advice... errata it to make it work in a way that they've said they want to avoid? Are you serious?
I don't understand why they just didn't go for a variable number of artifacts for metalcraft in the mechanic. Mark mentioned how they want to try to bring back popular old mechanics more often, but making metalcraft always be 3 artifacts seems like they limited the potential of the mechanic already.
 
Something that stuck out immediately to me was something like "Metalcraft-3" for the big set, and tinkering with numbers in the smaller sets to apply the mechanic across a variety of power levels or even types of cards to be made.

Since metalcraft is an ability word, not a keyword, there's no inherent tie to three. They just used three to keep things simple and consistent on its first introduction.


I'm betting they also kept it to three because they were gunshy about affinity. Like other people have said, affinity was overpowered, and metalcraft is a lot like affinity, so they're worried that if they get too creative with metalcraft its power level will explode. The third block is plenty of time to playtest incredibly bomby ideas like "Metalcraft-10: draw a card at the beginning of your draw step" or "Metalcraft-1: +2/+2 and trample".

+1/+1 and -1/-1 counters interaction doesn't really play well with modular. Under the current rules, if enough -1/-1 counters are placed on a modular creature to kill it, you'd get to transfer all of them but if its insufficient the you'd only get to transfer the excess +1/+1 counters when the creature eventually dies. No idea why they don't want sunburst though.


I think they don't want sunburst because they don't want a "play all five colors" theme in an artifact block. It would go well with domain or maybe some multicolor cards, but not so well with artifacts.
Really? Infuriated? Over something like this? I'd suggest some relaxation exercises or something, then, because that can't be healthy.



Har. De.  Har har.

You're vastly overestimating how easy it is to keep track of that stuff. Personally, I carry only one kind of counter with me when I'm playing Magic, not counting token cards and dice and stuff.



Then you are in the minority.  Every gamer I know carries dice, and most people can lay hands on a dozen or so pennies and a dozen or so other coins.

Sure, it's not THAT hard, but why make it harder unnecessarily? Likewise, it's not THAT hard to divide by three, keep track of phasing or banding, or remove some cards from the game face up and others face down, but it's hard enough in addition to everything else going on in a game that I'm glad we don't have to do them too often.



There is admittedly a cumulative effect, which is why I'm okay with them keeping this stuff limited to a few tricks per block, so most Magic games are fairly limited in scope.  But when playing with cards from any and all expansions, I want the whole package, using every resource available to create the most epic game experience.

How much design space do you think they're losing by not having +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters in the same block, really?



A heck of a lot!  Just in this block they gave up modular and sunburst, which would have played really interestingly with infect and Contagion Clasp.  There's also the traditional Consume Strength variant using counters - that's two kinds of counters on a single card, but it's too cool not to do.  The very fact that the counters annihilate each other itself is design space, and they refuse to use it; that bugs me because it's a cool thing they are opting not to make.  Remember how long it took Maro to get Bestial Menace (aka Cone of Creatures) printed?  Now that it's here, nobody minds, and these cards would be the same, if Wizards would just man up and print them already.

I doubt they're reprinting Goblin Replica (they've previewed Sylvok Replica, but as far as I know not any others yet; if I'm right then the cycle of replicas will be partially reprints and partially new, and this won't be the first time that's happened). So the new red replica will probably have a lower activation cost or else do something completely different. As for the rest of your advice... errata it to make it work in a way that they've said they want to avoid? Are you serious?



That they want future designs to avoid it is irrelevant; people who already own the card should be able to keep playing it the way they have been.  And yes, that means I'd like cards that date to the age of mana burn, like Braid of Fire and Power Surge, to keep using mana burn, and only use the no-mana-burn rule in games where no such cards are present.  A card should always be able to fulfill its design intent for as long as the physical card exists; if Wizards wants to buy all the old crap back and replace it at their cost with newtype cards that are balanced properly for the current rules, then they can obsolete the old game all they want, but it is absolutely never acceptible for an existing card to be rendered useless to its current owner.  (And yes, I know I'm demanding the impossible; that's kind of my thing.)
My New Phyrexia Writing Credits My M12 Writing Credits
As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing. --Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi

You're vastly overestimating how easy it is to keep track of that stuff. Personally, I carry only one kind of counter with me when I'm playing Magic, not counting token cards and dice and stuff.



Then you are in the minority.  Every gamer I know carries dice, and most people can lay hands on a dozen or so pennies and a dozen or so other coins.

Sure, it's not THAT hard, but why make it harder unnecessarily? Likewise, it's not THAT hard to divide by three, keep track of phasing or banding, or remove some cards from the game face up and others face down, but it's hard enough in addition to everything else going on in a game that I'm glad we don't have to do them too often.



There is admittedly a cumulative effect, which is why I'm okay with them keeping this stuff limited to a few tricks per block, so most Magic games are fairly limited in scope.  But when playing with cards from any and all expansions, I want the whole package, using every resource available to create the most epic game experience.



This. Plus it only really helps with the "More than one type of counter!? What madness is this!?" *head asplode* syndrome in limited. In casual, you get all sorts of crazy counters flying across the board. And the elimination of the +2/+0 counters with the counter antimatter rule really boils the issue down to players needing to remember "good" or "bad" which can be solved by keeping their creatures on different sides of the table if they really are that dull-witted.

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
What, the removal of mana burn?

Control of players rather than control of turns.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

The real question is: does this mean that affinity is gone for good, or did you just think that Affinity+Mirrodin=Touchy?

I would say the latter. Affinity would be far less touchy a subject if it wasn't affinity for artifacts and it wasn't Mirrodin.



Okay, to refine my question: is affinity for artifacts dead? Affinity itself isn't dead, I think. I think Maro said as much around Darksteel with the Golems cycle. I personally thought they wouldn't bring it back, but the fact that he mentions it here as a serious option in an artifact block makes me reconsider.

You're vastly overestimating how easy it is to keep track of that stuff. Personally, I carry only one kind of counter with me when I'm playing Magic, not counting token cards and dice and stuff.



Then you are in the minority.  Every gamer I know carries dice, and most people can lay hands on a dozen or so pennies and a dozen or so other coins.



I just carry dice, and I have absolutely no desire to use coins. And, quite frankly, even with your suggestions, that doesn't make it any easier to see the board situation in one look, which is their stated goal. My personal solution to this is to used two sizes of dice (two colours could work as well), but I'm just lucky enough to randomly have two sizes. Certainly, Limited is made a lot simpler by only using one type of counter.

And, really, there's not that much design space they don't take into account. Most counter-mechanics are now explicitly designed to work both with -1/-1 and +1/+1 counters: proliferate works beautifully with both. Scars of Mirrodin definitely doesn't need +1/+1 counters.
76125763 wrote:
Zindaras' meta is like a fossil, ancient and its secrets yet to be uncovered. Only men of yore, long dead, knew of it.
Thanks for not mixing +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters.  Despite what that small segment of the population claims, it would be a major headache for everyone else.  I'm also glad you brought back Imprint, by far my favorite mechanic... probably ever!  (well, licids might be second, lol)  It's nice that you put so much thought into it, as I thought that mechanic would be a no-brainer to include. 

So I'm guessing the Great Designer Search will let us vote on which designs we like? 
I say Magic's first villain was Nevinyrral, but anyway...

I think this is the first time I've heard that Mirrodin was the high-water mark for Magic sales.  You ask me, it's all about the shiny silver wrapper.




Yeah, they kept throwing out Legions for the longest time as the bestseller. Pretty sure they've even said that in the past year about Legions. Is Mirrodin still being sold by distributors and it just recently passed up Legions? 




Too bad about not making affinity work somehow. It seems like something that might have even worked in Zendikar block to help fulfill the sales pitch of "lands matter" (instead of the "playing lands matters" which we ended up with).


Matt Cavotta back at Wizards? I knew he was still doing artwork, but do you mean he is like back in the building? Did he get a divorce or something? (I seem to recall his family being unhappy with the climate or something where WOTC is located being the reason he left). Great to hear he's back, but I hope it didn't involve a "One More Day" type deal to make it work.



Nice to hear about the alternate activities during the GDS. I have no intention of ever being in contention for the internship, but I would love to contribute to the game somehow. 


 
Proud member of C.A.R.D. - Campaign Against Rare Duals "...but the time has come when lands just need to be better. Creatures have gotten stronger, spells have always been insane, and lands just sat in this awkward place of necessity." Jacob Van Lunen on the refuge duals, 16 Sep 2009. "While it made thematic sense to separate enemy and allied color fixing in the past, we have come around to the definite conclusion that it is just plain incorrect from a game-play perspective. This is one of these situations where game play should just trump flavor." - Sam Stoddard on ending the separation of allied/enemy dual lands. 05 July 2013
You can criticise Maro on Magic but one thing for sure about him is he knows how to write.
Okay, to refine my question: is affinity for artifacts dead? Affinity itself isn't dead, I think. I think Maro said as much around Darksteel with the Golems cycle. I personally thought they wouldn't bring it back, but the fact that he mentions it here as a serious option in an artifact block makes me reconsider.

I highly doubt it's dead, but it likely won't show up until they manage to break the automatic association between Affinity the mechanic and Ravager Affinity the deck. So I wouldn't expect to see it until after affinity for something else has shown up in a non-Mirrodin block and proved to be balanced and the bad memories of the original Mirrodin block have settled down some more.

This is probably the first step along that path, actually--give people a balanced artifact block to break the artifact block = broken association.

Come join me at No Goblins Allowed


Because frankly, being here depresses me these days.

Thanks for not mixing +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters.  Despite what that small segment of the population claims, it would be a major headache for everyone else.

  
my favorite mechanic... probably ever!  (well, licids might be second, lol) 


Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
But do great villains ever really die? No, they do not.


Great villains who never ever dies become generic villains.
I saw the art of the card I've been expecting to see since I saw the image for the first time. I skipped everything in the article and then looked at the card.

Oh my, I love it! It's really close to perfect. It would've been perfect if it were a Construct, but anyway, it's still awesome. I love it.
OMG click HERE! OMG! How to autocard and use decklist format
--->
For autocarding, write [c][/c] with the name of the card inside it. [c]Island[/c] = Island For linking a card to Gatherer without writting the name of said card for readers, use the autocard brackets together with and equal sign and right the name of the real card. Then put the message you want inside the tags, like you would do with autocarding. Like this: [c=Curse of the Cabal]Captain Never-resolves[/c] = Captain Never-resolves For using the decklist format, follow this: [deck] 4* Terramorphic Expanse 4* Evolving Wilds ... [/deck] It equals:
Real signature, Sblocked for space:
57817638 wrote:
I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
Listen to my SoundCloud while you read my signature. The Island, Come And See, The Landlord's Daughter, You'll Not Feel The Drowning - The Decemberists by vimschy IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/rkvR.gif)IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/L3es.gif) IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/m71H.gif)
Quotes
56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!
Thanks for not mixing +1/+1 and -1/-1 counters.  Despite what that small segment of the population claims, it would be a major headache for everyone else.

  
my favorite mechanic... probably ever!  (well, licids might be second, lol) 






dunno... bad cards like Chisei, Heart of Oceans and tricks you could possibly do with Unstable Mutation got decidedly worse when they decided to, rules wise, make players net counters out because there are decidedly less counters.

Formerly Magemaster44 who joined in 2002
Also - Gobin Replica's ability is stupidly overcosted since it used to work with combat damage on the stack.  So now that combat damage no longer goes on the stack, how about you Oracle Goblin Replica to have a lower activation cost?  Or come up with some ability that will let it still do the stack trick despite not having rules that allow this (such as an "if this was put into the graveyard during combat without being sacrificed" death trigger)?  Your eratta policy is to make cards work the way they did when most recently printed - Goblin Replica has never been reprinted under new rules, it needs eratta to work the way it originally did.



Then they would have to errata a few hundred other cards.

Goblin Replica does not need errata. It needs to do what the printed text says it does, even if it means the card sucks with a rules change. All rules changes leave dead bodies and thats life. Mirror Universe was not errataed to keep a player alive at zero life during his or her upkeep, and Power Sink was not errataed to have Split Second.
II think this is the first time I've heard that Mirrodin was the high-water mark for Magic sales.  You ask me, it's all about the shiny silver wrapper.




Yeah, they kept throwing out Legions for the longest time as the bestseller. Pretty sure they've even said that in the past year about Legions. Is Mirrodin still being sold by distributors and it just recently passed up Legions?  



I think Leigons is the most popular set, now the best selling.

I'm surprised that Ravnica wasn't the top, that's my personal favorite (and i began in Mirrodin).
… and then, the squirrels came.
How about we discuss the card? Does it have potential in the standard environment? In my opinion, I'm not really sure. I could see it working great in a deck with equipment, kinda reminds me of Troll Ascetic in a way.

Duels of the Planeswalkers deck builds and analysis: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/dotp

 

Another one of my websites: http://megamaster125.angelfire.com/rationalchristianity/

 

I am Blue/White

How about we discuss the card? Does it have potential in the standard environment? In my opinion, I'm not really sure. I could see it working great in a deck with equipment, kinda reminds me of Troll Ascetic in a way.



I think it could do a pretty good job.  It is a fairly cheap creature that can become fairly strong.  You only need two more artifacts to activate the ability and it would be a good target for equipment.  It than becomes immune to pretty much any targeted removal and all red burn (unless Leyline of Punishment is on the field).

The only real issue is that the artifact creatures in this set are colorless and it doesn't do anything to stop the Eldrazi.  It can be easy to block and doesn't protect from as much as it could have if it had been printed earlier.  Of course, it really couldn't happen any other way and I am not complaining at all about it being printed now.

If there is an equipment to give this guy flying, then the infest dragon isn't going to be as scary.
IMAGE(http://pwp.wizards.com/1205820039/Scorecards/Landscape.png)
How about we discuss the card? Does it have potential in the standard environment? In my opinion, I'm not really sure. I could see it working great in a deck with equipment, kinda reminds me of Troll Ascetic in a way.



I think it could do a pretty good job.  It is a fairly cheap creature that can become fairly strong.  You only need two more artifacts to activate the ability and it would be a good target for equipment.  It than becomes immune to pretty much any targeted removal and all red burn (unless Leyline of Punishment is on the field).

The only real issue is that the artifact creatures in this set are colorless and it doesn't do anything to stop the Eldrazi.  It can be easy to block and doesn't protect from as much as it could have if it had been printed earlier.  Of course, it really couldn't happen any other way and I am not complaining at all about it being printed now.

If there is an equipment to give this guy flying, then the infest dragon isn't going to be as scary.


Zendikar block has Kitesail and Spidersilk Net, but they haven't seen too much play. I guess they might, we'll have to see how they interact with Scars of Mirrodin, but I doubt it.

You're right that the Etched Champion is weaker in the current Standard environment than it would be in most, but I still think it'll be decent. Protection from all colors means protection from half the cards in this set, and a lot more than half of all the other sets in Standard. Judging by the spoilers, a lot of this set is colored cards that happen to fit into an artifact theme somehow (like Metalcraft or getting a bonus from being equipped) and this guy has protection from them. Note that it also works well with Grand Architect; your opponent's artifact creatures can't kill this guy if they have become blue.

A 2/2 with (conditional) evasion for 3 mana isn't that great for aggro, but I'll bet it will be used in a few creature-light control decks.
I'm betting they also kept it to three because they were gunshy about affinity. Like other people have said, affinity was overpowered, and metalcraft is a lot like affinity, so they're worried that if they get too creative with metalcraft its power level will explode. The third block is plenty of time to playtest incredibly bomby ideas like "Metalcraft-10: draw a card at the beginning of your draw step" or "Metalcraft-1: +2/+2 and trample".

I'm betting they didn't. Metalcraft simply doesn't have any potential to explode like affinity did as long as they aren't doing "Metalcraft - This creature gets +1/+1 for each artifact you control" style cards. So long as it's a on/off switch, metalcraft is very safe, and I'm sure the designers know it.



The Mirrodin reprints make me unhappy.  If Mirrodin sold so well, that means lots of players already have these cards, and probably don't need more of them.  New explorations of the conceps would have been preferable (granted the set also contains many of those).


And a lot of players weren't around for Mirrodin, and don't have any. It remains to be seen how heavy on reprints it is, but I'm sure there will be a lot more new stuff than reprints, so don't worry too much.


Also - Gobin Replica's ability is stupidly overcosted since it used to work with combat damage on the stack.  So now that combat damage no longer goes on the stack, how about you Oracle Goblin Replica to have a lower activation cost?  Or come up with some ability that will let it still do the stack trick despite not having rules that allow this (such as an "if this was put into the graveyard during combat without being sacrificed" death trigger)?  Your eratta policy is to make cards work the way they did when most recently printed - Goblin Replica has never been reprinted under new rules, it needs eratta to work the way it originally did.


If they were going to do that, they'd have to errata a ton of stuff that hasn't been printed since before Sixth to use the old timing rules. And that would be a MESS. Also, they can't change the text on the cards, so the Oracle text needs to stay reasonably close to that so players don't get horribly confused. If there was no paper Magic, only MTGO, it'd be one thing. But there is.
Yeah, they kept throwing out Legions for the longest time as the bestseller. Pretty sure they've even said that in the past year about Legions. Is Mirrodin still being sold by distributors and it just recently passed up Legions?



I think Legions is the best selling Set while Mirrodin is the best selling Block.

Do any flavor junkies want to elaborate on the signs implanted in Mirrodin to hint that they Phyrexians were coming?  I know a little bit about Memnarch and Karn, but very little about the Mycosynth and what that might imply, or why it would be a red herring.

Do any flavor junkies want to elaborate on the signs implanted in Mirrodin to hint that they Phyrexians were coming?  I know a little bit about Memnarch and Karn, but very little about the Mycosynth and what that might imply, or why it would be a red herring.



In a word, Maro's idea of sublte is apparently hitting your over the head with a brick. The oil was the center of the story, it drove Memnarch mad, de-stabalized the plane, and did alot of other things. The oil caused the Mycosynth that tore through Mirrodin's core, and it also turned flesh to metal and metal to flesh (allowing the denizens of Mirrodin to adapt).

In short, it was confirmed to be Phyrexian oil a little after the book came out, and the leading theory of how the oil got to Mirrodin was Karona transfering it accidently when she visited Mirrodin after Phyrexia. (It turns out the oil actually leaked from Karn's heartstone).

Also the oil has a bit of dialouge after it infects Memnarch... talking about it's plans, but first it must divide and grow.

So we know the oil was Phyrexian, we just didn't know what effect it would have. (Actually the books ended with no life on Mirrodin so we didn't even realize there would be a sequel).


I have absolutely no idea what Maro is talking about. I don't know how mycosynth would be seen as a red herring. THere wasn't really a mystery to Mirrodin.
… and then, the squirrels came.
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