Help with a Avenger PMC Ranger build

15 posts / 0 new
Last post
I will be starting a Lv.8 campaign using FR setting. There are 6 players and with the vital roles all covered, i am given the chance to experiment. Since Martial Power, i have been wanting to build a character around Martial Archetype so i decide to use this chance.
DM give expertise free.
DM does not allow other realm setting to be used. I.E. Ebberron, Dark Suns.
Campaign will last thro mid-epic at least.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
AVpmcRNG level 30
Half-Elf, Avenger, Paragon Multiclassing, Martial Archetype
Avenger's Censure: Censure of Pursuit

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 17, Dex 24, Int 12, Wis 26, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 18, Cha 6.


AC: 35 Fort: 29 Reflex: 33 Will: 34
HP: 205 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 51

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +22, Acrobatics +28, Stealth +28, Perception +29

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +16, Bluff +15, Diplomacy +17, Dungeoneering +23, Endurance +18, Heal +23, History +16, Insight +25, Intimidate +15, Nature +23, Streetwise +15, Thievery +22, Athletics +16

FEATS
Level 1: Adept Dilettante
Level 2: Power of Skill
Level 4: Novice Power
Level 6: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 8: Acolyte Power
Level 10: Adept Power
Level 11: Versatile Master
Level 12: Painful Oath
Level 14: Courageous Shooter
Level 16: Prime Punisher
Level 18: Called Shot
Level 20: Two-Weapon Opening
Level 21: Hand of Divine Guidance
Level 22: Slashing Storm
Level 24: Weapon Focus (Light Blade)

POWERS
Archetype's Edge: Tumbling Strike
Avenger at-will 1: Avenging Shackles
Avenger at-will 1: Overwhelming Strike
Dilettante: Twin Strike
Paragon Multiclassing: Hilt Slam
Paragon Multiclassing: Low Slash
Paragon Multiclassing: Fighter's Grit
Perfect Warrior: Perfect Strike
Warrior's Ascent: Master of the Hunt
Avenger encounter 1: Angelic Alacrity (retrained to Hunter's Pounce at Novice Power)
Avenger daily 1: Aspect of Might
Avenger utility 2: Refocus Enmity
Avenger encounter 3: Sequestering Strike
Avenger daily 5: Nine Souls of Wrath
Avenger utility 6: Soul Seeker (retrained to Invigorating Stride at Acolyte Power)
Avenger encounter 7: Chains of Censure
Avenger daily 9: Oath of Pursuit (retrained to Snarling Wolf Stance at Adept Power)
Avenger utility 10: Leading Step
Avenger encounter 13: Crimson Stride (retrained to Answer with Steel at Novice Power) (replaces Angelic Alacrity)
Avenger daily 15: Aspect of Fury (replaces Aspect of Might)
Avenger utility 16: Temple of Seclusion
Avenger encounter 17: Soulforge Hammering (replaces Chains of Censure)
Avenger daily 19: Blade of Astral Hosts (replaces Oath of Pursuit)
Avenger utility 22: Ghostly Vengeance
Avenger encounter 23: Phase Duel (replaces Sequestering Strike)
Avenger daily 25: Mantle of the Astral Champion (retrained to Deadly Sidestep at Adept Power) (replaces Nine Souls of Wrath)
Avenger encounter 27: Scatter to the Astral Winds (replaces Soulforge Hammering)
Avenger daily 29: Merciless Nemesis (replaces Blade of Astral Hosts)

====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

I did not include any gears yet. But weapon of choice atm will be Short Swords.

This build hopes to isolate a target using several Avenger's teleporting powers, and try to kill it using multi-attacks with a decent static bonus. Feats are looking very tight and i need help in that area.
PMC encounter choice is Low Slash, which is prob the best (other than Circling Predator)
PMC Utility and PMC Daily choice can possibly be improved since i can choose from any class, open to suggestion.
Similarly with power choice of Perfect Warrior, and Warrior's Ascent, Novice Power, Acolyte Power and Adept Power.
My powers selection are based mostly from Kilpatds's Avenger handbook (Thank you!)


Would appreciate any comments.
Did you roll your stats? Otherwise, they are wrong. You can't have an 18 16 13 11 10 6. You can't have a 6 at all in this edition. If you want an 18, you have 6 points left which give you 2 13s or a 14 and an 11. If you want 16s, you can have 2 16s and then 4 points left leaving for 2 12s or a 13 and an 11.

I would choose a double weapon if that is a choice for weapons. Two-weapon defense is generally a must if you have two-weapon offense.  I haven't looked at everything, but you haven't picked up the avenger defensive feats yet. You probably want to do that.

This is a quick look, hopefully someone else will come along and give more advice. If you have the option, you might want to look at revenant other than half-elf, and then choose half-elf for your previous life.
My bad, i forgot to explain.
The stats are correct, i build with the assumation of Half-elf getting +2con/+2wis from the upcoming essential.

I tweak it on the char builder to display that.

Str 11, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8
So i swap 2 points from Cha into Wis

This build is pretty feat starved as you can see, one thing i might decide to take out is the Called Shot package which currently occupy 3 feat slots.

Revenant doesnt have bonus to Wis.
Revenant has con/dex, which I wasn't expecting half-elf to be con-wis. Are you also sure that it will be con/wis?

And how often are you going to be range? It doesn't work with OoE, unless 1 of the feats change that.
I am not sure, but Adept Dilenttante allows the use of Con, Cha or Wis instead. Thus it suggested that Half-elf will get +wis in essential.

Prime Punisher allows Called Shot bonus to be used in melee attack.
I doubt they will get rid of cha. The con is the random stat. con makes sense because half-elves would be the best diplomats since they are not just a single race. And from what I remember, they work more with cha than con. I would put my money on wis cha instead of con wis if they really are getting wis.
I worked on a version of one of few days agao, and this is what I got. He could use some more optimization, haven't gotten back to it. He's Dex/Wis build and I took Midnight Blade Marauder to be able to take Ranger powers to work of Dex instead of Str.

The combo works well, able to to powers from any class for PMC due to Versatile Master, so I picked up Grappling Spirits as the PMC at-will for a ranged attack. Due to Adept Dilettante, Twin Strikes works off WIs.

Midnight Blade Marauder [Greater Style]
You can use Dexterity instead of Strength for attack rolls and damage rolls when using a power associated with this feat.
Associated Powers: Cheetah’s Rake, Nonchalant Collapse, Off-Hand Diversion, Ruffling Sting, Sweeping Whirlwind, Wandering Tornado

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Avenger PMC Dex Ranger, level 30
Revenant, Avenger, Paragon Multiclassing, Martial Archetype
Build: Pursuing Avenger
Avenger's Censure: Censure of Pursuit
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Light Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Holy Symbol)
Choose your Race in Life: Half-Elf

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 17, Dex 26, Int 12, Wis 24, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 13, Dex 16, Int 10, Wis 16, Cha 8.


AC: 38 Fort: 29 Reflex: 34 Will: 33
HP: 205 Surges: 10 Surge Value: 51

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +22, Stealth +29, Perception +28, Acrobatics +31

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +16, Bluff +15, Diplomacy +15, Dungeoneering +22, Endurance +20, Heal +22, History +16, Insight +22, Intimidate +17, Nature +22, Streetwise +15, Thievery +23, Athletics +16

FEATS
Level 1: Unarmored Agility
Level 2: Half-Elf Soul
Level 4: Adept Dilettante
Level 6: Novice Power
Level 8: Acolyte Power
Level 10: Adept Power
Level 11: Versatile Master
Level 12: Midnight Blade Student
Level 14: Midnight Blade Marauder
Level 16: Versatile Expertise
Level 18: Weapon Focus (Light Blade)
Level 20: Painful Oath
Level 21: Hand of Divine Guidance
Level 22: Power of Skill
Level 24: Distant Vengeance
Level 26: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 28: Swift Blade Style
Level 30: Two-Weapon Opening

POWERS
Archetype's Edge: Tumbling Strike
Avenger at-will 1: Avenging Shackles (retrained to Grappling Spirits at Paragon Multiclassing)
Avenger at-will 1: Overwhelming Strike
Dilettante: Twin Strike
Paragon Multiclassing: Low Slash
Paragon Multiclassing: Ethereal Sidestep
Paragon Multiclassing: Hilt Slam
Perfect Warrior: Perfect Strike
Warrior's Ascent: Master of the Hunt
Avenger encounter 1: Angelic Alacrity
Avenger daily 1: Aspect of Might
Avenger utility 2: Refocus Enmity
Avenger encounter 3: Fury's Advance
Avenger daily 5: Bond of Foresight
Avenger utility 6: Aspect of Agility
Avenger encounter 7: Inexorable Pursuit
Avenger daily 9: Blade of Repulsion
Avenger utility 10: Wings of Vengeance
Avenger encounter 13: Avenger's Demand (replaces Angelic Alacrity)
Avenger daily 15: Aspect of Fury (replaces Blade of Repulsion)
Avenger utility 16: Astral Cloak
Avenger encounter 17: Soulforge Hammering (replaces Inexorable Pursuit)
Avenger daily 19: Blade of Astral Hosts (replaces Aspect of Might)
Avenger utility 22: Raven Wings (retrained to Adamant Recovery at Acolyte Power)
Avenger encounter 23: Vengeful Parry (replaces Fury's Advance)
Avenger daily 25: Aspect of Death (retrained to Deadly Sidestep at Adept Power) (replaces Aspect of Fury)
Avenger encounter 27: Spark of Hatred (retrained to Nonchalant Collapse at Novice Power) (replaces Avenger's Demand)
Avenger daily 29: Temple of Resolution (replaces Bond of Foresight)

====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======

I did not include any gears yet. But weapon of choice atm will be Short Swords.



Go Rapiers, as of now they are military not superior and will not cost you a feat.

Rapier
Page 218: The weapon is no longer a superior military
weapon. It is instead a military melee weapon.

Completely different take on it, in order to max out DPR.  To actually play, make sure you invest in some armour proficiencies (probably right up to plate).

Bugbear Avenger/PMC Ranger/Martial Archetype
Str 16->26, Con 13->15, Dex 11->13, Int 8->10, Wis 16->24, Cha 10->12

Double Axe Proficiency, Axe Expertise, Warrior of the Wild, Novice Power, Acolyte Power, Adept Power
Wintertouched, Lasting Frost, Courageous Shooter, Prime Punisher, Called Shot, Silvery Glow
Deadly Axe, Rending Tempest, Power Attack, Slashing Storm, Painful Oath, Hand of Divine Guidance

+6 Frost Double Axe, Epic Frost Shard, Iron Armbands of Power, Gloves of Ice, War Ring, Ring of Giants, +4 Dancing Khopesh x5

To Hit Main/Off Hand/MBA/Disruptive Strike: +15 lvl +8 str +6 enh +3 feat +2 prof +1 prime +2 CA -2 PA = +35 vs AC 44
= 16% miss, 19% crit, 65% hit
To Hit Nonchalant Collapse: As above vs Fort = +35 vs Fort 42
= 9% miss, 19% crit, 72% hit
To Hit Dancing: As Main Hand with +4 enh = +33 vs AC 44
= 25% miss, 19% crit, 56% hit

Damage Main Hand: 2d12 base +6 enh +4 feat +5 vuln +5 shard +5 called +6 item +9 PA +6 power = 13 +46 = 59 
Crit Main Hand: 24 base +46 modifiers +12 giants +4d12 deadly axe/war ring +6d6 frost = 82 + 26 + 21 = 129
Damage Off Hand: As Main Hand with +6 PA = 56, crit 126
Damage Nonchalant Collapse: As Off Hand with +8 str and 3d12 base = 70.5, crit 146
Damage MBA: As Main Hand with +8 str and 3d12 base = 73.5, crit 149
Damage Disruptive Strike: As MBA with 2d12 base = 67, crit 137
Damage Dancing: 2d10 base +4 enh +8 str +5 called +6 item +6 PA +6 power = 11 +35 = 46, crit 20 +35 +12 +4d10 +4d6 = 103

Main Hand crit spawns Nonchalant Collapse; Off Hand crit spawns Nonchalant Collapse if Main didn't and Disruptive Strike if Main did spawn Nonchalant; Nonchalant Collapse spawns Nonchalant Collapse and an MBA; Dancing spawns Nonchalant Collapse; Disruptive Strike spawns Disrtuptive Strike

Twin Strike DPR:= (0.65*59 + 0.65*56 + 0.19*129 + 0.19*126 + 0.19*(0.72*70.5 + 0.19*146 + 0.19*(0.65*73.5 + 0.19*149) + 0.19*78.5) + 0.1539*(0.72*70.5 + 0.19*146 + 0.19*(0.65*73.5 + 0.19*149) + 0.19*78.5) + 0.0361*(0.65*67 + 0.19*137 + 0.19*69.58) + 0.56*46 + 0.19*103 + 0.19*(0.72*70.5 + 0.19*146 + 0.19*(0.65*73.5 + 0.19*149) + 0.19*78.5))
= 230.4415

Rending Tempest: Main hand adds 1d12 to Off Hand and 1d10 to Dancing; Off Hand adds 1d10 to Dancing if Main didn't = (0.84 + 0.16*0.84)*(0.65*6.5 + 0.19*12 + 0.56*5.5 + 0.19*10) 
= 11.19098

Slashing Storm + Painful Oath:14 damage if either Main Hand or Off Hand hits/crits= (1 - 0.16*0.16)*14
= 13.6416

Total DPR: 230.4415 + 11.19098 + 13.6416 = 255.2741 
@Nelphine
Yeah to lack of a decent AC is why i decide to try a Dex/Wis instead of a Str/Wis build.
What are you selection of powers from PMC and Martial Archetype?


@Toxicated
I have indeed considered Midnight blade before, even other styles, Blackhood, Nerathan High Blade and Rending Chains. However, the build is already very feat starved.
As Str/Wis, I pick up minor attacks and immediate attacks, since they'll all benefit from Oath of Enmity.  (The build above uses Disruptive Strike, Nonchalant Collapse, and if your DM lets the Martial Archetype be less than 17, Off-Hand Diversion)

As Dex/Wis, all the powers you pick up will be ranged, so they won't work with Oath of Enmity, unless you go for a particular style feat tree that lets you get Dex as melee on key powers.  Which is why I don't really like Dex/Wis for the Avenger based PMC Ranger.  Although you could go Str/Dex for the Avenger base, as Avenger powers are generally sucky anyway. 
i think u need dex 17 to rending tempest dont u?
I'm pretty sure you can't qualify for Martial archtype as an avenger.
Because he's multiclassing Ranger, he would fulfill the Martial requirement that Martial Archetype has.

FreakDive, I'd really like to see you build this character from the ground up, if you have time to do such a thing.  It seems like this build might be heavily relying on starting at a high level, probably epic tear, to be truly effective.

If you have the time (and the desire) to start at level 1, I'd like to see it as I am having trouble building anything effective at the moment.

I'd never play a Bugbear, and I'm pretty sure my DM wouldn't allow it; I'm starting a level 3 character for this new campaign, and I'd like to see a level 3 snapshot of this build.  Not sure what race I'd use, possibly Half-Elf or human.  I know that would gimp dpr, but with the possibilities of this build, I'm willing to sacrifice a little at the behest of the DM's rules.

Thanks!
@Kahlanramnell,
This build have to be a Half-Elf to snag to Twin-Strike power.
Following would be how i would progress my char to level 11.

Level 1
Feat: Light Blade Expertise
At-Will: Overwhelming Strike
At-Will: Any other
Encounter: Angelic Alacrity
Daily: Aspect of Might
Dilettante: Twin Strike

Level 2
Feat: Adept Dilettante (Wisdom for Twin Strike)
Utility: Reform Focus

Level 3
Encounter: Fury's Advance

Level 4
Feat: Power of Skill (if you worship a deity in that domain) otherwise you can take Unarmored Agility
+1 to Dex/Wis

Level 5
Daily: Nine soul of wrath

Level 6
Feat: Novice Power
Utility: Aspect of Agility
Retrain Angelic Alacrity to Fox's Cunning (if you take Power of Skill earlier)

Level 7
Encounter: Inexorable Pursuit

Level 8
Feat: Acolyte Power
Retrain: Soul Seeker to Invigorating Stride
+1 to Dex/Wis

Level 9
Daily: Blade of Repulsion

Level 10
Feat: Adept Power
Utility: Leading Steps
Retrain: Nine Soul of Wrath to Snarling wolf Stance

Level 11
Feat: Versatile Master
PMC Encounter: Low Slash

Weapon of Choice would be Main Hand Rapier, Offhand Short Sword.
This build is effective as of level 2, Wis based TwinStike couple with Oath and +3 proficiency = high accuracy. You can tailor the powers to your play-style too. My focus above is mostly action economy. Most powers are either minor actions or immediate to allow me to attack off standard actions.

If you are interested i can post the progression to lv30