Dragon 390 - Dead Gods - Fun ideas!

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I thought the ideas of Dead Gods is pretty cool!  I'm going to try to include them - or at least their cults - in the gams I DM.  I think they could really add some fun spice to the games!

That said...
Am I the only one who thinks that Dr. House is Laeris' mortal avatar?
There was so much that could have been done with this article that were completely skipped.  What about a Dead God profile for Amoth?  For He-Who-Was? 

These basically created entirely new members of the pantheon, only ones that don't matter since they're dead, who haven't been mentioned in the Dawn War at all, and thus are only sourced here.  While I appreciate new options, I'd rather see material on worshipping the Dead Gods already introduced, than new Dead Gods I don't particularly care about. 

Now, if Laeris and Aurum became integrated into the flavour material in a Divine Power 2, then perhaps I might start to warm up to this article.

Also, the use of the term "spells" and "spellcasting" really irks me.  ARCANE characters use spells, DIVINE characters use Prayers.  Get it right, please?


• As a side note, I'm back from my island vacation now, so I should be able to start OP'ing these article discussions again.  But thanks to those who did it in my absence ;)

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

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A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

Haven't finished reading it all yet, but seems pretty cool.

Shades of the Vigilant One, the Mistshadow, and the Dark Maiden anyone?  Hooray!

I like the feat for Nusemnee.  Others would have been good.

Marhandir: I considered adding some of the dead gods that were mentioned in DP, but in the end didn't include them.
He Who Was, due to his nature, was not suitable to detail, and I was not moved much by Amoth.
I thought about including Khala, but she already had some fair amount of background (as did Lakal), and she fell away when I wrote down Segawehn (another deity who fell in war), as I preferred using something new over rehashing information already known.
So, unfortunately, none of the already mentioned dead gods made it in. Had I had unlimited pages, I would have added them as well, but I already went over the word count.
Feel free to encourage Wizards to use these dead gods in DP2, though ;)
Gomeztoo, as one of the head LFR writers, I'm surprised you didn't add any of the many recently dead FR gods (maybe in a sidebar) like Helm and Mystra.   That would have been cool.
Marhandir: I considered adding some of the dead gods that were mentioned in DP, but in the end didn't include them.
He Who Was, due to his nature, was not suitable to detail, and I was not moved much by Amoth.
I thought about including Khala, but she already had some fair amount of background (as did Lakal), and she fell away when I wrote down Segawehn (another deity who fell in war), as I preferred using something new over rehashing information already known.
So, unfortunately, none of the already mentioned dead gods made it in. Had I had unlimited pages, I would have added them as well, but I already went over the word count.
Feel free to encourage Wizards to use these dead gods in DP2, though ;)



Thanks for the response, Gomeztoo aka Pierre von Rooden.  I understand the reasoning, though I would have liked to see feats related to the dead gods who -were- already mentioned.  That said, perhaps they warrant a separate article, considering they weren't mentioned in this one. 

Considering that anything that makes it into Dragon is part of the core story of the relevant setting, I should hope that these gods and goddesses here get at least sidebar passing mentions in Divine Power 2.  I will press WotC about it as well, as we approach a possibility for more divine options – especially considering the needs of Runepriests and Essentials Clerics and Paladins.

Before posting, why not ask yourself, What Would Wrecan Say?

IMAGE(http://images.onesite.com/community.wizards.com/user/marandahir/thumb/9ac5d970f3a59330212c73baffe4c556.png?v=90000)

A great man once said "If WotC put out boxes full of free money there'd still be people complaining about how it's folded." – Boraxe

I hadn't really thought about it until I read this article this morning, but many of the known dead gods are actually evil (Nerull, Khala, Tuern), with a smattering of unaligned ones (Io, Lakal, Amoth), at least based on their descriptions.  I think that the only good dead god previously revealed would be He Who Was and I'm not completely sure that he was that good.  Amoth and Io have already been covered in player-orientated articles and supplements and Lakal seems pretty quom-specific.  Making up new good and unaligned gods (especially good ones) seems like a good idea IMO.
Tim Eagon My DDI Articles Follow me on Twitter @Tim_Eagon
Good article. I have a lot of dead gods in my homebrewed world. So of course, I will use it for my world. Also, it's a good option that could be used in the Dark Sun setting. That is if one wanted to use divine power in that world.
I tried counting to one backwards, but I didn't know where to start.
I thought the article was nifty. Like others, I would have liked to seen previously discussed dead gods rather than completely new ones. Even if the fluff would have been a retelling (rehashing if you're feeling uncharitable), I would have appreciated mechanics for worshipping these known dead gods than for completely new ones.

One thing I didn't like though was the new concept that Nerull wasn't always a god. I feel like it doesn't mesh well with past lore about him. Plus it sort of turns the position of the God of Death into a revolving door in the Core world.

I guess you can make an arguement that it's metaphysically significant that Gods of Death, well, die more frequently than gods of other portfolios, but I would have liked to see that be addressed. Because you didn't address it, it comes off as accidentally cheapening the mantle of all the gods who ever were or are the god of death.
Planes Wanderer
Hrm.   Interesting article, though useful to me only for the crunch.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I liked this article, gomeztoo, particularly the goddess Nusemnee. Interesting ideas on why people would worship dead gods.
The enemy wasn't men, or women, or the old, or even the dead. It was just bleedin' stupid people, who came in all varieties. And no one had the right to be stupid. - Terry Pratchett Doraleous & Associates : I'll let it speak for itself johnkretzer gave me a . It was chocolate chip and very sweet. Silversword also gave me a . That one was peanut butter!
One thing I didn't like though was the new concept that Nerull wasn't always a god. I feel like it doesn't mesh well with past lore about him. Plus it sort of turns the position of the God of Death into a revolving door in the Core world.

I guess you can make an arguement that it's metaphysically significant that Gods of Death, well, die more frequently than gods of other portfolios, but I would have liked to see that be addressed. Because you didn't address it, it comes off as accidentally cheapening the mantle of all the gods who ever were or are the god of death.

I concur. Nerull is Old School and hails from Greyhawk, and while FR punks like Myrkul might play that mortal ascension thang, that's not how The Hater of Life rolls.

This fabrication is OBVIOUSLY a ploy by the Raven Queen to legitimize her own role by saying "Well, uh... Nerull actually killed another god you have never heard of to be the god of Death... and Nerull was actually a mortal, too! YEAH! That's the ticket! And you never bothered him about it! So I'm OK!"

Perhaps what is presented is the "accepted facts", and PCs could determine through Paragon and Epic tiers just how much bunkum (or not!) is contained in this tale.

Maybe the Enclave of Dust wants to hire the PCs to kill the Raven Queen and bring Aurom back. Piece of cake. It is the Raven Queen's time to die, and to deny that is to defy the universe. Thus the intel they provide could _never_ be wrong, I mean, it's really auspicious, and they would know these things, so you can really trust them. Imagine how much gold she has...!

Maybe the Clutch of Nerull organization wants to buy an artifact from the PCs in order to bring _their_ god back. It's merely a big copper sickle. Never mind the constant bleeding/moaning/skeletal faces. Sometimes a broken rune floats to the top of the corroded blade when the keening gets too much to bear. Why would nice folks like the PCs associate with such a thing? Better to be rid of it. Top dollar paid. Would you prefer residuum or gold?

Maybe one of the Raven Queen's many sycophanticdevoted organizations offers the PCs a task: eliminate a group of heretics. They call themselves the "Enclave of Dust", and could very well be a hidden Vecna cult who has fallen away from the true Birdgirl vision. They think it's OK to torture people with undeath. They are all obviously crazy and need to be put down for the good of everybody. Don't listen to their lies. Everyone will be thankful when they are all killed. And hey! Gold!

Of course, all three organizations would try killing the PCs in a heartbeat. It would merely be coincidence (...or kismet?) if all 3 and the PCs engaged in an Epic battle royale in the Raven Queen's throneroom to decide the question of "Which god of Death should live?"
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One thing I didn't like though was the new concept that Nerull wasn't always a god. I feel like it doesn't mesh well with past lore about him. Plus it sort of turns the position of the God of Death into a revolving door in the Core world.

I guess you can make an arguement that it's metaphysically significant that Gods of Death, well, die more frequently than gods of other portfolios, but I would have liked to see that be addressed. Because you didn't address it, it comes off as accidentally cheapening the mantle of all the gods who ever were or are the god of death.

I concur. Nerull is Old School and hails from Greyhawk, and while FR punks like Myrkul might play that mortal ascension thang, that's not how The Hater of Life rolls.


between the raven queen, nerull, cyric, kelemvor (spelling?), and, as yaldabaoth says, myrkul, there sure are a lot of gods of death who originally were mortal.

that aside, i enjoyed the article.  it provides an interesting element to the game. 
I am interested in what the dead gods domains were though....

I can guess based on they story but an official list would be nice. It would have only be 1 line in their info. Maybe it can be added when its put into the issue release.
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