8/18/2010 BoaB: "Overwhelming Stompy"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
I really like this week's deck.  Probably because all im missing are the elementals, companions, nd garruks...

If I can get them for reasonable then this will definitely see some play from me

I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
Always nice to see some bashing with monogreen decks. Some points:

Seven overrun effects is way too much, especially with Garruk in the mix. Drawing two of them is bad and topdecking one when the opponent has just swept the board is awful. Cutting them to five seems OK, but why not playing Beastmaster ascencion as a overrun that sticks?

Maybe it is better for a midrange deck or the SB, but Mitotic Slime looks good here. Sending it to attack even if they have a blocker will leave them guessing if you have a overrun effect ready to exploit. Swinging after a Day of Judgment is obviously good too.

I'll probably trying a RG deck with Bloodbraid elf as another way of filling the board.
If Limited gets in the way of printing good Constructed cards... Screw limited
Manamorphose Obviously. Manamorphose+overwhelming stampede =GG, and its a decent target for burn rather than a planeswalker
Manamorphose Obviously. Manamorphose+overwhelming stampede =GG, and its a decent target for burn rather than a planeswalker



I believe you meant Manaplasm...and yes, that would be a sweet play.  I've always liked Manaplasm with Tower Above or Rafiq/Finest Hour, but an Overrun-styled deck seems really interesting and fun to me.

I would truly like to see more match reports though.  Seriously, as many as possible.  We see the God draw in game 1, but what is it like to fight through their best hand?  Also, could we see a winnable scenario against U/W Control?
This deck is great, I'm making a version, removing the Kozilek's Predator and Garruk Wildspeaker and probably putting in Beastmaster Ascension and some more Wolfbriar Elementals.

On a side note, I really have just stopped being surprised at seeing planeswalkers in the BoaB column.
This deck is basically Monument Green without the Monuments. The red matchup becomes a lot better after sideboarding. You can bring in Obstinate Baloth and Fog against RDW as well as Jund. If you can't get Baloths, then Brindle Boar or Grazing Gladehart are both reasonable alternatives. U/W is super hard to beat with a deck like this. I run extra Wolfbriars in the side as well as some Naturalizes, Great Sable Stags, and Brittle Effigys. Pithing Needle might not be bad against them either.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein My H/W List
I made a deck kind of similar actually earlier on Tuesday, so it was kind of amusing to see this piece.  I say it's similar in that it uses Garruk's Overrun ability along with the real deal. 

I don't have any of the new Overwelming Stampede yet. 

And, well, I went more heavy with the Eldrazi Tokens and included the Hand of Emrakul for the fun of it.  There's also a sub-theme with Mitotic Slime and Jinxed Idol but I may have to pull that out and put more "answer" to "competitive level" decks rather than just have my silly fun.
river boa will help immensely against a deck that has islands and plays day of judgment with martial coup. Get your games in with the deck now though. The loss of overrun is huge in.... I want to say a month but I'm not 100% certain what day scars of mirrodin is released.
Don't be too smart to have fun
This is very similar to a deck I run except that I have Gaea's Revenge in the deck for post wrath effects (although this may fail through lack of budget for this coloum). I also run BOP's rather than Arbor Elves simply because of the flying evasion.
However, thinking about this some more, I think you could run Elvish Archdruid as a mana accelerator/pump for your elves.

Turn 1 - Forest, Elf (either type)
Turn 2 - Forest, Archdruid
Turn 3 - Forest, tap all forests and Elf play Garruk, untap with Garruk, play Archdruid and Elf.
Turn 4 - Forest, tap all forests and Archdruid (8 mana), play Gaea's Revenge (1 floating), play Garruk ultimate, tap Archdruid (5 mana), play Overwhelming Stampede. Swing for squillions (54 trampling damage)
I second the use of Elvish Archdruids as both a mana accelerant and a pump for your early Elves.

Anti-UW cards could also include Autumn's Veil (< $1), Gaea's Revenge ($5), or Momentous Fall ($2, sac one of your dudes in response to a Day to refill your hand).
Mono green decks are always fun and the one he made seems pretty good. I agree I think there are too many overrun effects. If you notice in several of the games he had multiple spells in his hand when it only really takes one good hit to end the game. I think 5 or 6 including Garruk would be enough.

I'd like to see Beastmaster Ascension in this deck. It has really good synergy with overrun (whereas monument is killing off your creatures).

If you guys were to put together a casual Overrun deck what cards do you think would go well in it? I've been thinking about making one.
Love the deck!  I'm sure I'm not the only one who had similar thoughts when looking at Leatherback Baloth and Garruk's Companion. 

Hornet Sting as a sideboard card?  It might help against the RDW matchups to ping away their X/1 attackers.... wait, does RDW use anything with toughness 1 anymore?

Eldrazi Monument would be a great sideboard card (or mainboard) against Day of Judgment and other control decks.

Besides, there is just NO way to interact with the board.  This deck cannot handle a single must-answer threat.  That Kargan Dragonlord should be solvable.  I wonder how, though....
Is standard at such a low point that all we get for a week is a monogreen beatdown? Anyone who has played for half a week can build a deck like this.

And as another said, I've stopped being surprised at seeing planeswalkers on a BoaB deck. I miss the old days, when budget decks didnt cost $50+.
I must say I'm genuinely impressed by this version of monogreen; I hadn't thought about the concept of playing that many Overrun effects, but it actually can be a sound strategy considering the sheer power of that type of spell, and the fact that playing two in a row can easily make you win even with only two creatures. I can't say I'd play 7 Overruns, though; maybe 5-6 along with Garruk.
Manamorphose Obviously. Manamorphose+overwhelming stampede =GG, and its a decent target for burn rather than a planeswalker

I believe you meant Manaplasm...and yes, that would be a sweet play.  I've always liked Manaplasm with Tower Above or Rafiq/Finest Hour, but an Overrun-styled deck seems really interesting and fun to me.

Manaplasm is nothing short of a fantastic idea for this deck. I especially like the fact that it fits the curve; in a deck with 8 1-mana elves, you want 3-drops, so Manaplasm complements Leatherback Baloth beautifully.
On a side note, I really have just stopped being surprised at seeing planeswalkers in the BoaB column.

Really? I don't know about you, but the five original planeswalkers are budget cards in my book, and they certainly are in JVL's book too. The priciest one is Garruk at 6-7$. If you've just stopped being suprised at seeing 6-7$ cards in JVL's Boab, you must not have been reading his version of the column for very long. Now, if what you mean is that you've just stopped being offended, that'd be different, and I'd say it would be a good thing. I mean, Jacob even pointed the fact that Garruk is the priciest card in the deck and suggested replacements. Whether you like it or not, that's about as far as he will go in weakening his decks for the sake of budget.
I would truly like to see more match reports though.  Seriously, as many as possible.  We see the God draw in game 1, but what is it like to fight through their best hand?  Also, could we see a winnable scenario against U/W Control?

Seeing how ridiculously well the U/W player drew for the purpose of fending off a creature deck, I think it's easy to imagine scenarios where the green player can win. As a sideboard plan, I'd remove the Overrun effects other than Garruk and try to focus on a strategy of playing one or two big threats at a time instead of overextending, and protecting them.
Magic The Gathering DCI Lvl 1 Judge Don't hesitate to post rules question in the Rules Q&A forum for me and other competent advisors to answer : http://community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/75842/134778/Rules_Q38A
What a coincidence, this is perfect for me - I've been playing a monogreen Overrun deck for a while now. It began as a casual, legacy Elf deck, but when I decided I wanted to make a deck aimed at Friday Night Magic, adapting this seemed like the best option. The major difference between JVL's and mine is that (a) I haven't got around to getting four copies of Overwhelming Stampede yet, so I'm still relying mainly on Overrun, and more importantly, (b) I've been using Bestial Menace and Gelatinous Genesis.

Now that I read this, it's given me a lot of ideas. Not stuff taken directly from JVL's so much as ways to prune mine. I mean, I have to admit the vestiges of my Elf deck are fun but rarely actually do much; stuff like that. I'm a bit hesitant to do it because, on paper, my deck can win on turn four in a couple different ways, but it's never happened yet so I should probably be more realistic.

For those people who are suggesting Elvish Archdruid, the +1/+1 is trivial, and JVL's version probably doesn't have enough Elves to make the archduid worth it for mana. Even in my deck I'm having doubts about it.

As for the specific matchups, it surprises people, but my deck does well against Jund too. I do it differently than JVL did here, though: even if I don't have three Overrun-like effects to choose from at a time, my token generation can keep up with their card advantage. (Maelstrom Pulse hurts me, but not cascade.)

Against UW, I'd hope for my perfect hand even more than usual, but there's basically nothing I can do if the other guy draws two Day of Judgment and a Martial Coup like in the article. The Windstorms in my sideboard are very important; they will take care of Baneslayer Angel, Kargan Dragonlord and other stuff. I've struggled with Linvala, Keeper of Silence and Iona, Shield of Emeria, but I'm hoping some Brittle Effigy in my sideboard will be enough for them.
However, thinking about this some more, I think you could run Elvish Archdruid as a mana accelerator/pump for your elves...
Turn 4 - Forest, tap all forests and Archdruid (8 mana), play Gaea's Revenge (1 floating), play Garruk ultimate, tap Archdruid (5 mana), play Overwhelming Stampede. Swing for squillions (54 trampling damage)


Looks cool, but note that it requires 11 cards. In other words, it requires the perfect hand and draw and you can't do it at all if you're playing first.
I posted a deck that's slower but lasts way better for the long-term game, even has recovery and serious threats other than overrrun effects.

2x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Gaea's Revenge
3x Mitotic Slime
1x Rampaging Baloths
4x River Boa
2x Wolfbriar Elemental
4x Lanowar Elves

17 Creatures.


3x Beastmaster Ascension
3x Beastial Menance
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Gravity Well
2x Leyline of Vitality
3x Momentous Fall
3x Overwhelming Stampede

19 Spells

4x Khalni Garden
3x Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
17x Forest

24 Lands
And as another said, I've stopped being surprised at seeing planeswalkers on a BoaB deck. I miss the old days, when budget decks didnt cost $50+.


QQ. People make this complaint this every week, and every week the answers are the same:
1) Rarity isn't everything. Some planeswalkers and/or mythics really are budget by any reasonable definition. Chandra Nalaar goes for less than $3 at store.tcgplayer.com, for example.
2) "Budget" means more than just the dollar value of the deck, but also other factors like wide-ranging utility. Fetchlands and dual lands, for example, are more expensive than the average rare, but they can be used in all kinds of decks and can be traded pretty easily. Reach deep into your pocket for one playset of each, once, and trade them for a different set every week and never pay for another fetch or dual land again if you want.
3) $50 is budget. It's literally a tenth of the cost of the decks that are winning in Standard these days. (I'll try to verify that later, or at least be more exact about it, but it's definitely less than, say, a quarter of the price of UW Control with Gideon.) Blame the free market economy, or WotC for not actively quashing the secondary market, but blaming JVL for this is stupid. If even $50 is too expensive and/or you just want something on the spur of the moment, well, nobody is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to make this exact deck down to the last card. It's a general guideline.
Is standard at such a low point that all we get for a week is a monogreen beatdown? Anyone who has played for half a week can build a deck like this.

And as another said, I've stopped being surprised at seeing planeswalkers on a BoaB deck. I miss the old days, when budget decks didnt cost $50+.



Standard is actually at a high point when $50 decks can give $200 decks a run for their money.

Take a quick look at a recent Daily Event (4 rounds) for August 10, 2010:

Kirasjer87 went 4-0 with a very budget White/Blue control. The most expensive part of the deck is the manabase, and even then by now you should realize that manlands are always good investments. Otherwise, no planeswalkers, no Sun Titans, no Baneslayers.

Kirasjer87, going 4-0, won 11 packs of Magic 2011. 11 packs of M11 can be sold for roughly 33-38 tix (1 tix is around .9-1 dollar). Or he can draft "for free" 4 times and maybe win more, or Lady Luck can help him draft up that juicy foil Primeval Titan. If Kirasjer87 also plays 1 more Daily Event and goes 4-0, he's basically recouped the cost of his WHOLE deck + entry fees.

How's that for flexing your budget?

Ok, so what does that have to do with Mono Green + Overrun effects? If you look at the same Daily Event standings:

The_Apologist went 3-1 with a green aggro deck that splashed Blue for some protection. Aside from 4 fetches, a monument, and sideboarded (!) Vengevines, the deck is dirt cheap.

If you've built any of JVL's past incarnations of mono green decks, you probably have a good portion of the cards already. The splash for blue is a personal call, it's obviously always up to each player to make the calls that they personally see as acceptable (just read this thread.. multiple posters chipping in with "oh, I'll run X instead of Y because I feel Z might..").

"Green + Overrun", winning 6 packs and beating decks chalk full of planeswalkers and mythics. Yes, really a lowpoint.

What are these old days you speak of? I remember my old days. MY old days where horrible for my budget. I spent money in a TERRIBLE way. I might as well have just burned it. I bought boxes and opened packs. I bought precons. I invested in cards but didn't do anything with them. I bought terrible, narrow rares instead of investing in solid staples. I didn't pay attention to any market or metagame changes and got stuck with cards I couldn't get rid of.

I think a lot of players would agree with my non-rosecolored "old days." These days are a lot better for me.
IMAGE(http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx30/hannaleak/hlsig1.jpg) the glory of
This deck is almost the same as a deck listed on puremtgo about 2 mos ago.

this deck could use more bestial menace and/or mitotic slime to solve the wrath problems. nothing keeps control decks off thier mustard like creatures that come back, or the idea that you could pull 3 creatures out of your hand after a wrath.

river boa is also very good in this deck. it can regenerate through the day of judgement. Also, oran rief is good in this deck. at least as a 2 of.
I posted a deck that's slower but lasts way better for the long-term game, even has recovery and serious threats other than overrrun effects.

2x Avenger of Zendikar
1x Gaea's Revenge
3x Mitotic Slime
1x Rampaging Baloths
4x River Boa
2x Wolfbriar Elemental
4x Lanowar Elves

17 Creatures.


3x Beastmaster Ascension
3x Beastial Menance
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
2x Gravity Well
2x Leyline of Vitality
3x Momentous Fall
3x Overwhelming Stampede

19 Spells

4x Khalni Garden
3x Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
17x Forest

24 Lands

@ Noktarn

It depends on what you want to do but if you want to pummel people with the big fat I would suggest adding a lot more ramp and acceleration. If you want to win with overrun then smooth out your creature curve. Ben Bleiwess used to say "Focus your goals, but don't be a slave to your theme."

Your mana curve is topheavy with only llanowar and river boa below 5cc (assuming you plan on kicking wolfbriar elemental). I would take out Gravity Well, the Leyline, and add Leatherback Baloth. It is a very efficient creature and is the best target for a relatively early game Overwhelming Stampede. Your big fatties are going to win the game all by themselves so the stampede is just flashy baggage on creatures like Gaea's Revenge.
This deck is incredibly uninspired and disappointing.  It may be mildly effective but its a lerdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">ist I'm tired of seeing that is nowhere near interesting or original.  If you are going to post decks that are merely mildly effective, run garruk, and are "budget" at least post something interesting.  If garruk is budget then so are fetch-lands so here is much more interesting list that is also mildly effective...

2x arid mesa
2x scalding tarn
1x verdant catacombs
2x misty rainforest
4x khalni garden
3x raging ravine
5x forest
5x mountain

4x Birds of Paradise
4x Llanowar Elf
4x River Boa
4x Plated Geopede
4x Nest Invader
4x Bloodbraid Elf


4x Zektar Shrine Expedition
2x Garruk Wildspeaker
4x Overwhelming Stampede
2x Overrun


This deck is clearly far more cool and interesting.  How effective it is isn't really important at this point because your list isn't very strong either, however garruk is clearly not budget and neither are the fetch lands, so...

4x Evolving Wilds
4x Terramorphic Expanse
4x Khalni Garden
6x Mountain
6x Forest

4x Birds of Paradise
4x Nest Invader
4x River Boa
4x Elvish Visionary
4x Plated Geopede
4x Manaplasm

4x Zektar Shrine Expedition
4x Overwhelming Stampede
4x Overrun

...and there you have it.  Interesting, mildly effective and actually budget.  Plated geopede, manaplasm and zektar shrine expedition allow you to win with overwhelming stampede with a mere 2 or even 1 other creature(s) in play which should not be a problem in this deck.  River boa is very good at sticking to the board long enough for that to happen and can even do some blocking to help you to survive to that point.  There is even room to remove a playset of creatures and bring in lightning bolts for some removal/reach.  This is worth discussing, interesting and budget.  The deck in the article was none of these things.

edit: these forums suck as much as or more than the article did.  what's with the "
erdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif;">" randomly inserted in the middle of one of my words?

Although I've only been playing Magic for a few weeks I created a Mono-Green deck similar to this as I saw the awesome combos that could be used while still being very affordable. I've created a deck more focused on Landfall effects while adding in Overwhelming Stampede as an alternate win-con.

Lands: 23
19 Forest
4 Terramorphic Expanse


Sorcery/Echantment: 17
4 Explore
4 Cultivate
3 Khalni Heart Expedition
3 Overwhelming Stampede
3 Momentous Fall

Creatures: 20
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Grazing Gladehart
3 Avenger of Zendikar
3 Rampaging Baloths
3 Leatherback Baloth
3 River Roa


Sideboard: 15
3 Plummet
3 Fog
3 Naturalize
3 Vines of Vastwood
3 Mold Shambler

I bought three Garruks for 13.50 today that 4.50 each.  Its going to be round for at least another year.  Seems like a solid Budget investment too me.  And fetch lands are all under $4.  So you wah it isnt budget can shut up,  Its better than having to buy Jace's
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
Is standard at such a low point that all we get for a week is a monogreen beatdown? Anyone who has played for half a week can build a deck like this.

And as another said, I've stopped being surprised at seeing planeswalkers on a BoaB deck. I miss the old days, when budget decks didnt cost $50+.



Standard is actually at a high point when $50 decks can give $200 decks a run for their money.

Take a quick look at a recent Daily Event (4 rounds) for August 10, 2010:

Kirasjer87 went 4-0 with a very budget White/Blue control. The most expensive part of the deck is the manabase, and even then by now you should realize that manlands are always good investments. Otherwise, no planeswalkers, no Sun Titans, no Baneslayers.

Kirasjer87, going 4-0, won 11 packs of Magic 2011. 11 packs of M11 can be sold for roughly 33-38 tix (1 tix is around .9-1 dollar). Or he can draft "for free" 4 times and maybe win more, or Lady Luck can help him draft up that juicy foil Primeval Titan. If Kirasjer87 also plays 1 more Daily Event and goes 4-0, he's basically recouped the cost of his WHOLE deck + entry fees.

How's that for flexing your budget?

Ok, so what does that have to do with Mono Green + Overrun effects? If you look at the same Daily Event standings:

The_Apologist went 3-1 with a green aggro deck that splashed Blue for some protection. Aside from 4 fetches, a monument, and sideboarded (!) Vengevines, the deck is dirt cheap.

If you've built any of JVL's past incarnations of mono green decks, you probably have a good portion of the cards already. The splash for blue is a personal call, it's obviously always up to each player to make the calls that they personally see as acceptable (just read this thread.. multiple posters chipping in with "oh, I'll run X instead of Y because I feel Z might..").

"Green + Overrun", winning 6 packs and beating decks chalk full of planeswalkers and mythics. Yes, really a lowpoint.

What are these old days you speak of? I remember my old days. MY old days where horrible for my budget. I spent money in a TERRIBLE way. I might as well have just burned it. I bought boxes and opened packs. I bought precons. I invested in cards but didn't do anything with them. I bought terrible, narrow rares instead of investing in solid staples. I didn't pay attention to any market or metagame changes and got stuck with cards I couldn't get rid of.

I think a lot of players would agree with my non-rosecolored "old days." These days are a lot better for me.



please don't try this point of view. If you had asked this player how many tournaments he's entered v. how many he's gotten prize support then you'd have a better idea of the cost of this deck. You can post the decklists all day but it means little if you only post the winning decklists. For instance a pro player took JvL's ascension decklist to the top 8 of nationals. While it was a "budget" decklist it's not like this particular player is testing, building and generally playing on a budget. And if he was it's not like you would know. So before you go spouting off numbers of how much potential money you can win or how much it's going to cut down on the cost of building you should include in those numbers the number of times a deck has failed miserably (most of the time), and the cost of those failures.

I actually don't have as much of a problem with this decklist's "budget" as some we've seen in the past. So I'll agree with you that on a certain level this is a budget decklist and shouldn't be something to complain about necessarily. However, your argument about winning packs on MtGO offsetting the cost of building the deck is pointless because you don't include how many of these "budget" decks lost.

I agree with the people who say it's somewhat boring. We've seen the deck in block constructed, and standard for years now and any player who is really on a budget has played overrun at some point because it has been the flagbearer for budget decklists ever since they reprinted it in 10th edition. However, I don't really have a problem with boring in general since newer players need this kind of article to get them on the right track. Many people achieve their first sucesses as players with a simple decklist based around overextending the board and winning as quickly as possible with your creatures. I appreciate that fact and this decklist as a result.
Don't be too smart to have fun

Looks cool, but note that it requires 11 cards. In other words, it requires the perfect hand and draw and you can't do it at all if you're playing first.



It doesn't actually need all of those cards to win turn 4.  It only needs 10 Laughing so it can win on the play on Turn 4 too!

Turn 1: Forest, Elf
Turn 2: Forest, Archdruid
Turn 3: Forest, Garruk, Archdruid
Turn 4: Forest, Gaea's Revenge, Overwhelming Stampede
Is standard at such a low point that all we get for a week is a monogreen beatdown? Anyone who has played for half a week can build a deck like this.

And as another said, I've stopped being surprised at seeing planeswalkers on a BoaB deck. I miss the old days, when budget decks didnt cost $50+.



Standard is actually at a high point when $50 decks can give $200 decks a run for their money.

Take a quick look at a recent Daily Event (4 rounds) for August 10, 2010:

Kirasjer87 went 4-0 with a very budget White/Blue control. The most expensive part of the deck is the manabase, and even then by now you should realize that manlands are always good investments. Otherwise, no planeswalkers, no Sun Titans, no Baneslayers.

Kirasjer87, going 4-0, won 11 packs of Magic 2011. 11 packs of M11 can be sold for roughly 33-38 tix (1 tix is around .9-1 dollar). Or he can draft "for free" 4 times and maybe win more, or Lady Luck can help him draft up that juicy foil Primeval Titan. If Kirasjer87 also plays 1 more Daily Event and goes 4-0, he's basically recouped the cost of his WHOLE deck + entry fees.

How's that for flexing your budget?

Ok, so what does that have to do with Mono Green + Overrun effects? If you look at the same Daily Event standings:

The_Apologist went 3-1 with a green aggro deck that splashed Blue for some protection. Aside from 4 fetches, a monument, and sideboarded (!) Vengevines, the deck is dirt cheap.

If you've built any of JVL's past incarnations of mono green decks, you probably have a good portion of the cards already. The splash for blue is a personal call, it's obviously always up to each player to make the calls that they personally see as acceptable (just read this thread.. multiple posters chipping in with "oh, I'll run X instead of Y because I feel Z might..").

"Green + Overrun", winning 6 packs and beating decks chalk full of planeswalkers and mythics. Yes, really a lowpoint.

What are these old days you speak of? I remember my old days. MY old days where horrible for my budget. I spent money in a TERRIBLE way. I might as well have just burned it. I bought boxes and opened packs. I bought precons. I invested in cards but didn't do anything with them. I bought terrible, narrow rares instead of investing in solid staples. I didn't pay attention to any market or metagame changes and got stuck with cards I couldn't get rid of.

I think a lot of players would agree with my non-rosecolored "old days." These days are a lot better for me.



please don't try this point of view. If you had asked this player how many tournaments he's entered v. how many he's gotten prize support then you'd have a better idea of the cost of this deck. You can post the decklists all day but it means little if you only post the winning decklists. For instance a pro player took JvL's ascension decklist to the top 8 of nationals. While it was a "budget" decklist it's not like this particular player is testing, building and generally playing on a budget. And if he was it's not like you would know. So before you go spouting off numbers of how much potential money you can win or how much it's going to cut down on the cost of building you should include in those numbers the number of times a deck has failed miserably (most of the time), and the cost of those failures.

I actually don't have as much of a problem with this decklist's "budget" as some we've seen in the past. So I'll agree with you that on a certain level this is a budget decklist and shouldn't be something to complain about necessarily. However, your argument about winning packs on MtGO offsetting the cost of building the deck is pointless because you don't include how many of these "budget" decks lost.

I agree with the people who say it's somewhat boring. We've seen the deck in block constructed, and standard for years now and any player who is really on a budget has played overrun at some point because it has been the flagbearer for budget decklists ever since they reprinted it in 10th edition. However, I don't really have a problem with boring in general since newer players need this kind of article to get them on the right track. Many people achieve their first sucesses as players with a simple decklist based around overextending the board and winning as quickly as possible with your creatures. I appreciate that fact and this decklist as a result.



This is kind of what I'm getting at. Apparently, the other two who didn't agree with me missed the point; BoaB, before JvL, used 30-36 dollars as a budget, and TRIED and ATTEMPTED to keep it under it.

The worst of this part is, is that hannahleak and cybishop seem to think i'm comparing these 50$ budget decks to the tournament decks. Guess what, go to a different column, because you've missed the point of BoaB. It isn't to make $50 budget decks to win a local FNM or take to a Pro Tour; its for tabletop games, taking it to a FNM, finetuning it, using whats availaible in standard/extended, and most importantly in this game, having fun.

And as I originally said, what kind of a wasted week is it where you can just spout "I'm going to build a mono-green deck this week and collect my paycheck." I loved the last two weeks columns, as they were interesting decks, especially with the addition of Jinxed Idol to the sacrifice deck, but this is just ridiculous. and fyi, my problem with that deck was, four Bloodghasts and four Monuments aren't budget, and I dont know how many people have them just "lying around", as they would cheaper rares like Cunning Lethemancer, Extractor Demon, or Magmaw


Good, fun deck. My big soap box about this column is the "budget" part, but this week's deck is very right at the amount I'm willing to spend, and not much of it is leaving standard. Esp. w/ the Garruk vs. Liliana duel deck, it means my normal casual group actually have Garruk's for trade and I can get them online for pretty cheap. I like a lot of the substitution advice here. There's a lot in green that does the same stuff, so there are a lot of budget options. Packleader/Mitotic slime and river boa are good vs board sweep. Autumn's veil is good vs. counter on the turn you're going off. Yes, it's a mono-green deck, but honestly dropping $45 on a playset of Misty Rainforest, just doesn't work.
Is standard at such a low point that all we get for a week is a monogreen beatdown? Anyone who has played for half a week can build a deck like this.

And as another said, I've stopped being surprised at seeing planeswalkers on a BoaB deck. I miss the old days, when budget decks didnt cost $50+.



Standard is actually at a high point when $50 decks can give $200 decks a run for their money.

Take a quick look at a recent Daily Event (4 rounds) for August 10, 2010:

Kirasjer87 went 4-0 with a very budget White/Blue control. The most expensive part of the deck is the manabase, and even then by now you should realize that manlands are always good investments. Otherwise, no planeswalkers, no Sun Titans, no Baneslayers.

Kirasjer87, going 4-0, won 11 packs of Magic 2011. 11 packs of M11 can be sold for roughly 33-38 tix (1 tix is around .9-1 dollar). Or he can draft "for free" 4 times and maybe win more, or Lady Luck can help him draft up that juicy foil Primeval Titan. If Kirasjer87 also plays 1 more Daily Event and goes 4-0, he's basically recouped the cost of his WHOLE deck + entry fees.

How's that for flexing your budget?

Ok, so what does that have to do with Mono Green + Overrun effects? If you look at the same Daily Event standings:

The_Apologist went 3-1 with a green aggro deck that splashed Blue for some protection. Aside from 4 fetches, a monument, and sideboarded (!) Vengevines, the deck is dirt cheap.

If you've built any of JVL's past incarnations of mono green decks, you probably have a good portion of the cards already. The splash for blue is a personal call, it's obviously always up to each player to make the calls that they personally see as acceptable (just read this thread.. multiple posters chipping in with "oh, I'll run X instead of Y because I feel Z might..").

"Green + Overrun", winning 6 packs and beating decks chalk full of planeswalkers and mythics. Yes, really a lowpoint.

What are these old days you speak of? I remember my old days. MY old days where horrible for my budget. I spent money in a TERRIBLE way. I might as well have just burned it. I bought boxes and opened packs. I bought precons. I invested in cards but didn't do anything with them. I bought terrible, narrow rares instead of investing in solid staples. I didn't pay attention to any market or metagame changes and got stuck with cards I couldn't get rid of.

I think a lot of players would agree with my non-rosecolored "old days." These days are a lot better for me.



please don't try this point of view. If you had asked this player how many tournaments he's entered v. how many he's gotten prize support then you'd have a better idea of the cost of this deck. You can post the decklists all day but it means little if you only post the winning decklists. For instance a pro player took JvL's ascension decklist to the top 8 of nationals. While it was a "budget" decklist it's not like this particular player is testing, building and generally playing on a budget. And if he was it's not like you would know. So before you go spouting off numbers of how much potential money you can win or how much it's going to cut down on the cost of building you should include in those numbers the number of times a deck has failed miserably (most of the time), and the cost of those failures.

I actually don't have as much of a problem with this decklist's "budget" as some we've seen in the past. So I'll agree with you that on a certain level this is a budget decklist and shouldn't be something to complain about necessarily. However, your argument about winning packs on MtGO offsetting the cost of building the deck is pointless because you don't include how many of these "budget" decks lost.

I agree with the people who say it's somewhat boring. We've seen the deck in block constructed, and standard for years now and any player who is really on a budget has played overrun at some point because it has been the flagbearer for budget decklists ever since they reprinted it in 10th edition. However, I don't really have a problem with boring in general since newer players need this kind of article to get them on the right track. Many people achieve their first sucesses as players with a simple decklist based around overextending the board and winning as quickly as possible with your creatures. I appreciate that fact and this decklist as a result.



This is kind of what I'm getting at. Apparently, the other two who didn't agree with me missed the point; BoaB, before JvL, used 30-36 dollars as a budget, and TRIED and ATTEMPTED to keep it under it.

The worst of this part is, is that hannahleak and cybishop seem to think i'm comparing these 50$ budget decks to the tournament decks. Guess what, go to a different column, because you've missed the point of BoaB. It isn't to make $50 budget decks to win a local FNM or take to a Pro Tour; its for tabletop games, taking it to a FNM, finetuning it, using whats availaible in standard/extended, and most importantly in this game, having fun.

And as I originally said, what kind of a wasted week is it where you can just spout "I'm going to build a mono-green deck this week and collect my paycheck." I loved the last two weeks columns, as they were interesting decks, especially with the addition of Jinxed Idol to the sacrifice deck, but this is just ridiculous. and fyi, my problem with that deck was, four Bloodghasts and four Monuments aren't budget, and I dont know how many people have them just "lying around", as they would cheaper rares like Cunning Lethemancer, Extractor Demon, or Magmaw





While some of what you say is true, I will argue that point with you. BoaB is all about building cheap decks that still have a shot to be tournament playable.  The only problem I had with the article this week is that it's not a very interesting deck build to me.   Solid.  Fun to play, but been done many times before.
But that being said I am puzzled why you keep trying to say Garuuk isn't budget?  Sure he isn't compared to a trash rare.  But he (and all the core planeswalkers) are very reasonably priced.  So I don't think you're complaints are justified in the long run.

That being said I 100% agree with that statement you made... "and most importantly in this game, having fun."  That should really be every Magic players goal.

This is kind of what I'm getting at. Apparently, the other two who didn't agree with me missed the point; BoaB, before JvL, used 30-36 dollars as a budget, and TRIED and ATTEMPTED to keep it under it.

The worst of this part is, is that hannahleak and cybishop seem to think i'm comparing these 50$ budget decks to the tournament decks. Guess what, go to a different column, because you've missed the point of BoaB. It isn't to make $50 budget decks to win a local FNM or take to a Pro Tour; its for tabletop games, taking it to a FNM, finetuning it, using whats availaible in standard/extended, and most importantly in this game, having fun.



Wait, how did I miss the point of BoaB? I would argue that you missed the point of BoaB.

$30 is acceptable and casual and fun and sunshine and lollipops, while add $20 more and all of a sudden its spikish and cutthroat and unfun? Says who? What about adding $19? See, its arbitrary and not useful at all.

Go to a different column? Sure:

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BoaB, on the navigation bar is sandwiched between Serious Fun/Savor the Flavor and Top Decks. I'm going to assume you know the "point" of these other columns.

You know, whoever organizes Wizards content isn't dumb, they don't randomly do things for no reason. Tuesday Serious Fun, Wednesday Savor the Flavor and BoaB, Thursday Top Decks.

There is a progression from casual to tier 1 competitive. Guess which column is sandwiched smack in the middle, almost as a bridge between an article like Serious Fun and Top Decks? It's almost like some web content overseer planned it that way. So you say go to a different column, I say the columns are right where they should be:

Casual (who cares about formats and money.. play what you like, whenever you like, spend as little or as much at whatever pace)
BoaB (decks that can swing both ways.. do well in casual, have a shot in tournies, without breaking the bank)
Top Decks (nothing held back, the best 75 cards or go home)

And what's great about a bridge is that while it functions to get you from 1 point to another point, sometimes the bridge itself is a beautiful structure, worth stopping and taking a good look at. So even if you DON'T want to go from casual to fully competitive, there's a spot for you to grow as a player. And one of the main reasons that Magic is such a damn good game is that it has spots for every type of player.

EDIT: Ironically, in looking at the last Serious Fun article, I found it a bit amusing that the author referenced the Mitotic Feedback deck from JVL, by adding more money to it (hi Verdant Catacombs). But then again, I guess it makes sense. After all, who says adding more money to something can't be serious fun?
IMAGE(http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx30/hannaleak/hlsig1.jpg) the glory of
"EDIT: Ironically, in looking at the last Serious Fun article, I found it a bit amusing that the author referenced the Mitotic Feedback deck from JVL, by adding more money to it (hi Verdant Catacombs). But then again, I guess it makes sense. After all, who says adding more money to something can't be serious fun?"

Thats my point. This collumn is for budget magic players it shouldn't be all about tournament play (and I guess it shouldn't be all about casual decks either). It's great to get a tournament quality deck on a budget once in awhile but there are many budget casual players out there. It is rare when the decks from other articles actually make budget considerations.
Don't be too smart to have fun
Took this exact deck to FNM yesterday.  Had built a janky version of it (Eldrazi Green Ramp) before, and thought this would be a good change.

Other than first round trouble with RDW Manabarbs, I went 2-0 the rest of the tournament and won!  Very happy with the construction.

I beat 2 of the new Pyromancer deck (Call to Mind), another RDW, UW aggro, BUW control, Tezzeret with Sparkmage/Basilisk Collar and Phylactery Lich/Sword of Vengeance, and best of all, I beat Jund.

If you're thinking of a sideboard, most defintely use Naturalize and/or Back to Nature for those Ascensions.  Plummet and/or Windstorm are also good cards vs Baneslayer, etc.

Anyway, very pleased with this week's BoaB.  Kudos!
Last two FNM's top 4 week before last, and yesterday's FNM, 6-0 before I misplayed and lost to blue-white control in top 8.

Sideboard:

Vengevine x 3, Naturalize x 2, Back to Nature x 2, Obstinate Baloth x 3, Plummet x 2, Vines of Vastwood x 3

(Alternate sideboard can include Gaea's Revenges instead of the Back to Natures.)

I did not have the Vengevines or Baloths in the sideboard this past week, but rest assured, I will next week!


JK
Last two FNM's top 4 week before last, and yesterday's FNM, 6-0 before I misplayed and lost to blue-white control in top 8.

Sideboard:

Vengevine x 3, Naturalize x 2, Back to Nature x 2, Obstinate Baloth x 3, Plummet x 2, Vines of Vastwood x 3

(Alternate sideboard can include Gaea's Revenges instead of the Back to Natures.)

I did not have the Vengevines or Baloths in the sideboard this past week, but rest assured, I will next week!


JK



Awesome! What's nice too, is that this deck basically survives the rotation.

IMAGE(http://i738.photobucket.com/albums/xx30/hannaleak/hlsig1.jpg) the glory of
I'm just 3 garruks away from having this deck completed. However i'm looking to see if I can put the 2x Gaea's Revenge I have in it for a little more mid-to late game muscle.

All in all really looking forward to testing this out.