D&D 4e Why The Hate

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I can't understand why so many people hate 4e so much.

There are alot haters on youtube for the game.

I for one like the game.
After dealing with this question for so many years, does this really deserve an answer other than "haters gonna hate"?

I wish I had a list of the countless edition war threads to say, "here be your answers."
My guess is that it is because they feel 4e ruined "their game" because it is "no longer D&D." Personally, I consider D&D 4e to be a different game -- not just D&D version 4 -- since I still play 3.5e.

This is the internet. There are haters for everything
"They changed it, now it sucks."
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
"They changed it, now it sucks."

Do not spare these people. 
Because people want to complain regardless of what it's about.
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Pushing for a Viashino Planeswalker and Ugin!
Because some people would rather play the wildly unbalanced versions instead.

or..

some feel resentment that Wotc wants to make money accusing every new edition as being a money grab.

or

some people are set in their old curmudgeon ways and can't possibly accept change, even when it is for the better and overall improvement of the game.
I can't understand why so many people hate 4e so much.

There's nothing to understand, really.  If the game can be loved, it can also be hated.

There are alot haters on youtube for the game.

What about these boards?  There are a lot of fans of the game here.  It all evens out, I'd say.

I for one like the game.

Wondering if you're alone ;)?  Nope.  I like the game myself.

/\ Art

/\ Art
"They changed it, now it sucks."

Do not spare these people. 


Agreed.  See also Fan Dumb, Upleasable Fanbase, and Vocal Minority.  Often results from Complaining About Games You Don't Play or taking their hobbies too seriously.  Enough of this may result in a Broken Base. Nigh inevitable since Developers Can't Please Everybody.
Thinking about creating a race for 4e? Make things a lil' easier on yourself by reading my Race Mechanic Creation Guide first.
4e hate is sooooo 2008.  Essentials hate is the trendy new things these days. 
4e hate is sooooo 2008.  Essentials hate is the trendy new things these days. 



now this made me laugh.


but I look back when I first started playing 4Ed,  I looked at it as a whole new game. free of any previous editions.
3E is now better than 4E b/c of essentials.

Truth.
4e greatest roleplaying game ever invented
I can give you three reasons why fourth has some problems with the old guard.

One. The Parcel System.

Two. A return to restricted Multi-classing that is dependant on tiers (Heroic, Paragon, Epic) instead of being able to take on at will. Add the Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies being poor replacements for Prestige Classes

Three. Level depentant scaling of numbers. I talk here of skills, stat mods, and hitting.


Number one gives me the most fits, but it can be worked with or simply ignored. (Hate to have to redo the price list for the magical items though) I will say it again, limiting the PC's wealth is a lousy balance mechanic.
Terms you should know...
Show
Kit Build - A class build that is self sustaining and has mechanical differences than the normal scale. Started in Essentials. Most are call their own terms, though the Base Class should be said in front of their own terms (Like Assassin/Executioner) Power Points - A mechanic that was wedged into the PHB3 classes (with the exception of the Monk) from the previous editions. This time, they are used to augment At Wills to be Encounters, thus eliminating the need to choose powers past 4th level. Mage Builds - Kit builds that are schools of magic for the Wizard. A call back to the previous editions powering up of the wizard. (Wizard/Necromancer, for example) Unlike the previous kit builds, Wizards simply lose their Scribe Rituals feature and most likely still can choose powers from any build, unlike the Kit Builds. Parcel System - A treasure distribution method that keeps adventurers poor while forcing/advising the DM to get wish lists from players. The version 2.0 rolls for treasure instead of making a list, and is incomplete because of the lack of clarity about magic item rarity.
ha ha
56902498 wrote:
They will Essentialize the Essentials classes, otherwise known as Essentials2. The new sub-sub-classes will be: * Magician. A subsubclass of Mage, the magician has two implements, wand and hat, one familiar (rabbit) and series of basic tricks. * Crook. A subsubclass of Thief, the Crook can only use a shiv, which allows him to use his only power... Shank. * Angry Vicar, a subsubclass of warpriest, the angry vicar has two attacks -- Shame and Lecture. * Hitter. A subsubclass of Slayer, the Hitter hits things. * Gatherer. A subsubclass of Hunter, it doesn't actually do anything, but pick up the stuff other players might leave behind. Future Essentials2 classes include the Security Guard (Sentinel2), the Hexknife (Hexblade2), the Webelos (Scout2), the Gallant (Cavalier2) and the Goofus (Knight2). These will all be detailed in the box set called Heroes of the Futile Marketing. (Though what they should really release tomorrow is the Essentialized version of the Witchalok!)
Its a matter of personal preference.  They're both great editions of a great game.
I'm a big fan, there's some things I'd want to see change, but I don't see ever going back to earlier editions.

Also, the people NOT having fun are always going to be more vocal.
I can finally see the whole conspiracy. Paizo made Pathfinder and WotC made Essentials in a diabolical plot to keep edition warriors fighting with people playing the same edition! There can only be one logical reason for such a course of action: to keep anyone from noticing while they secretly work on D&D Advanced Pathfinder Options Card-Board-War Game Simulation MMO Basic Essential Boxed Set for Dummies Edition. Surprised
That name is too long.  We need to call it something simpler.  Something easier.  Something that boils it down to its most essential points.

They're secretly working on...

[i]COMMUNISM!![/i] 
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
Exactly. They beefed up Hammers in MP2, next they will beef up sickles.
God I hope so.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
People on Youtube like Rick Astley, who cares what they do or do not like!
I can finally see the whole conspiracy. Paizo made Pathfinder and WotC made Essentials in a diabolical plot to keep edition warriors fighting with people playing the same edition! There can only be one logical reason for such a course of action: to keep anyone from noticing while they secretly work on D&D Advanced Pathfinder Options Card-Board-War Game Simulation MMO Basic Essential Boxed Set for Dummies Edition. Surprised



LMAO! That's f'n epic Laughing

I imagine all the 4th edition hate comes from a combination of "puritan" D&D fans (who never wanted anything other than 3.5 anyhow) and the people who will always hate no matter the changes.

In my opinion 3.5 has a superior set of rules to 4E (which most would agree, though I digress from my point). With the latest releases of 3.5 (Tome of Magic, Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords, etc.) one could already detect the shifting of the mindset  for the game, years in advance to the release of 4E. Though I won't lie, my first response to opening up my shiny new 4E PHB a couple years back was mostly one of "WTF?!?!?", the level of alteration was actually kind of welcomed.

The term "edition" typically refers to a progression, like the "Morning Edition", though this progression is always assumed to be an "alteration to" rather than a "replacement of". For instance the news in the morning edition isn't going to conflict with the nightly edition. Because of this, one can easily make an argument that the level of alteration fringes upon total replacement making the game alien enough to be something entirely different. Point taken, but I don't D&D it up because of a specific rule set, I do it to explore the characters I've followed since I was a kid. Who cares if I can't "Force Cage + Dimensional Anchor + Cloud Kill" my way through it anymore, I needed an excuse to stop using that anyhow.

Though I'll reiterate the earliest responses who said it best; Haters will hate. It's why we call them haters, it's kinda what they do.
That name is too long.  We need to call it something simpler.  Something easier.  Something that boils it down to its most essential points.

They're secretly working on...

[i]COMMUNISM!![/i] 



WotC proudly presents the Communism 1E RPG, featuring:

1 race (human)
1 class (proletariat)
1 background (working man)
1 power (labor strike)
copper ration system (replaces treasure parcels)
1 enemy (Capitalism Dragon)

3 page hardback available this June. Limit one copy per household.
All characters will supplied with one hammer and one sickle with which to defend the Motherland.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
All characters will supplied with one hammer and one sickle with which to defend the Motherland.



Ha, I forgot the weapons. Laughing Though I guess those would really be implements in Communism.
To channel one's patriotism in order to overcome the corrupting influence of the morally bankrupt Capitalism Dragon.
Seriously, though, you should check out the PbP Haven. You might also like Real Adventures, IF you're cool.
Knights of W.T.F.- Silver Spur Winner
4enclave, a place where 4e fans can talk 4e in peace.
To channel one's patriotism in order to overcome the corrupting influence of the morally bankrupt Capitalism Dragon.



Alignment Options:
  • Lawful Patriot

  • (censored)

  • (censored)

  • (censored)

  • (censored)


That name is too long.  We need to call it something simpler.  Something easier.  Something that boils it down to its most essential points.

They're secretly working on...

[i]COMMUNISM!![/i] 



WotC proudly presents the Communism 1E RPG, featuring:

1 race (human)
1 class (proletariat)
1 background (working man)
1 power (labor strike)
copper ration system (replaces treasure parcels)
1 enemy (Capitalism Dragon)

3 page hardback available this June. Limit one copy per household.



I want to play this game, just to make Glen Beck cry.
I'm just going to point out that the 1st edition would have "proletariat", "party member", and "high ranking party member". True communism would happen around 3rd edition or so.

Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid

Copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade.

"Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall,

"But Iron -- Cold Iron -- is master of them all." -Kipling

 

Miss d20 Modern? Take a look at Dias Ex Machina Game's UltraModern 4e!

 

57019168 wrote:
I am a hero, not a chump.
You're not going to get very far looking for positivity on Youtube.
I think 4th edition is fun as heck. And D&D Insider is awesome. But the art has, in general, detereorited quite a bit from 3-3.5.  Of course, when you have art as great as some of the stuff from 3.5, its a long way down. Perhaps some of the budget that would have gone to art is going to D&D Insider. That might be smart from a buisiness perspective, but the art really one of the reasons I might buy a book like demonomicon. I don't care about the lore of demons, because I make all that stuff up myself. But if it has great art, then its worth it just to lounge over the pictures and wool gather.




Mmmm I think! Ego its the answer LoL
I think in 3.5 one player can creat overpower characters... i like a lot 3.5 and it takes a wile for me to adapt .... to 4e...
Comon!!! there are people..ho says...that 4e! kill the Rol! becouse of his new rules! and that is more like a tactical game...focused on battles...
I think.. Kill the rol? why? if its all in our imagination!? i still can jump climb..detect magic.. make acrobathics... fly! i mean ..why kill de rol?
I think its Ego... LoL.... we play a lot of time 3.5 ..we read 40000 rules and spells... that were grate...
but the truth is that Caster were complitly out of line!
Now they put on the table a more balanced game... all the players have his part on it!
Comon lets brake the barrier... we can teleport! speak other leanguages! we can do all the same that in 3.5!!! the only think that 4e bring its balance... and less dmg!! we have to change the "norma"
befor we can do a lot of unbalanced Dmg!! now..whe can do a good of Dmg!!! in some case a real lot of Dmg....
Comon!! the rules ar more easy! the players can do all the same!!
The problem is that now!! we are not Goku!! LoL
And its OK!!!
Dont say please it kills! the rol!! becouse!! that is imposible!! thats depends on the party and the DM!!
lest brake the Barrier!!! como Slides push!! move actions!! teleport!! spells!! Areas!!! if u say !! y cast an area!!1..10 squares... its your problem!! i prefear to say!!
my eyes turn black!! and spirits begin to suround me..making a screaming noise!! ill point with mi hand! and al them!! advance over my victims and they turn madd on fear!!!
just!! please!! jaja
Its Ego ...oh yes it is!

There is only one thing i dont like... an update each month changing the rules!! can creat some discutions with powers ..and a lot of retrain!! that a master must permit!! becouse in some case brakes a player creation!
Well thats all
see ya!! and rememper!! we are not goku!! now!! thats the only diference

Mmmm I think! Ego its the answer LoL
I think in 3.5 one player can creat overpower characters... i like a lot 3.5 and it takes a wile for me to adapt .... to 4e... 
Comon!!! there are people..ho says...that 4e! kill the Rol! becouse of his new rules! and that is more like a tactical game...focused on battles...
I think.. Kill the rol? why? if its all in our imagination!? i still can jump climb..detect magic.. make acrobathics... fly! i mean ..why kill de rol?
I think its Ego... LoL.... we play a lot of time 3.5 ..we read 40000 rules and spells... that were grate...
but the truth is that Caster were complitly out of line!
Now they put on the table a more balanced game... all the players have his part on it!
Comon lets brake the barrier... we can teleport! speak other leanguages! we can do all the same that in 3.5!!! the only think that 4e bring its balance... and less dmg!! we have to change the "norma"
befor we can do a lot of unbalanced Dmg!! now..whe can do a good of Dmg!!! in some case a real lot of Dmg....
Comon!! the rules ar more easy! the players can do all the same!!
The problem is that now!! we are not Goku!! LoL
And its OK!!! 
Dont say please it kills! the rol!! becouse!! that is imposible!! thats depends on the party and the DM!! 
lest brake the Barrier!!! como Slides push!! move actions!! teleport!! spells!! Areas!!! if u say !! y cast an area!!1..10 squares... its your problem!! i prefear to say!!
my eyes turn black!! and spirits begin to suround me..making a screaming noise!! ill point with mi hand! and al them!! advance over my victims and they turn madd on fear!!! 
just!! please!! jaja
Its Ego ...oh yes it is!

There is only one thing i dont like... an update each month changing the rules!! can creat some discutions with powers ..and a lot of retrain!! that a master must permit!! becouse in some case brakes a player creation!
Well thats all
see ya!! and rememper!! we are not goku!! now!! thats the only diference



I think I went crosseyed trying to read this.
oooo i forget to say something!!! now the DM can have fun!! preparing!! a realy tactical battle!!
before!! DM have to see how the last Dragon!! dies with one Casters hit!
Or how it recive 1212304832¡52834525¡ infinite Dmg from an overpower chara! and wait after 30 or one hour of combos with timestop in two charas---Haste!!!!
atack 2 times or one becouse of slow!! and hit one! becouse of deAC 90000000 the life shield! and the imunities!! to all kind of things!!!
(3.5parody)
Player:Muhhahaha im the wizards ho fly and i am invisible!!!!!
Master:ok all the archers points in the sky traing to find u...some of them shot!!!
(Critical!! hesss i heat!)
Player no!! remember i have protection from arrows and dmg reduction! so it dont makes Dmg
Master:... oo well.. your turn
Player: i transforms his wood archs in an obsolet thing!!
Master....mmm mmmm ok!! some of them start to run and the others put the sword in hand!!
Player...i cast time Stop!! and y use Meteor Swarm!! two times!! and i summon a huge red dragon!!
DM: Ok u defeat all them! and conquer the world!!
DM: But wait!! i call Goku!! and its the last defender of the earth!!
Player: ñijiji!! ok! i onvoque mi wish!! and i wish to send him out from this plane!!!
And goku fight in the other plane!! but well thats another history!

Please give 4e a try!! at least!
jaja yea try to get the point jajaja i dont speak eanglish!! lol!! hahaha
Sorry
In a sintesis!! i think they hate it becouse of Ego
bye bye
*blink blink*

What just happened....
I am Red/Green
I am Red/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I'm both instinctive and emotional. I value my own instincts and desires, and either ignore or crush anything that stands in my way; planning and foresight are unnecessary. At best, I'm determined and fierce; at worst, I'm headstrong and infantile.
Pushing for a Viashino Planeswalker and Ugin!
I certainly don't hate 4e, I just tend to prefer some aspects of 3.x 

I don't think that I have been overly critical of 4e, because I realize that the issues I have with the edition are more or less simply personal preferences, and not directly related to the quality of the game itself.

That being said, it is looking like Essentials will be fixing a lot of the issues I have with 4e, so I am hoping that I will finally get the full enjoyment out of this edition that I had been hoping for. 
*blink blink*

What just happened....



Someone who doesn't speak English very well posted and people are making fun of him for not being able to communicate in English very well.

He could have posted in his native language but I doubt many on here would have had a clue either.

Give the guy a break.
ICEDCROW! Thanks!! LoL dont worry!!! i dont take that as someone making fun!!! next time i think i will use!! google translator hahaha!
Any way i hope some one gets the point!!!

Gracias!!!
even if he doesn't speak english very well you can at least practice good posting etiquette.

when every line has a break, multiple exclamation points at various places make it "sound" pretty disjointed when you read it. to solve spelling (remember, not rememper) there is a spell checker built into the posting system that has a language option.

note that i'm not a native english speaker. i was born, raised and educated from kindergarden to college in french. though my workplace is english, i work the french queue so all the people i speak to (manager, co-workers, customers) are french speakers first and foremost.

i need to reread my posts two or three times and spellcheck to make sure my thoughts are in proper order and truthfully, posting on this site & reading my D&D books really helps practice my english. i'd say playing my wordy/text-heavy Dragon Warrior games also helps, but those games are written in a british-y english accent, so it's not that helpful.
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