8/11/2010 BoaB: "Rotated Restoration"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
The article was really good, except for this part.

"Coalition Relic is a card I must have just missed the last time around. This card is superior to Darksteel Ingot in every way..."

Do you understand what "indestructible" means?

The rest of the article was just great, although not extremely original.
your signature shows me something, lodestone would be great, and heres another thought, a new card since the time the article was written,  AETHER ADEPT!!!! that would be absolutly great against any aggro deck

I'd like to have regular Extended tournaments in my local shop, but until it becomes a valid FNM format it isn't going to happen.

I'd like to have regular Extended tournaments in my local shop, but until it becomes a valid FNM format it isn't going to happen.



 


That's weird. How come people at your shop never get bored of Standard?




I'd like to have regular Extended tournaments in my local shop, but until it becomes a valid FNM format it isn't going to happen.



 


That's weird. How come people at your shop never get bored of Standard?






It's not weird. This is the case for most shops.

I love the decklist. Awesome article this week.

Don't be too smart to have fun

I'd like to have regular Extended tournaments in my local shop, but until it becomes a valid FNM format it isn't going to happen.



 


That's weird. How come people at your shop never get bored of Standard?





I'm pretty sure Standard, Limited (or is Sealed Deck the correct term? Or are they different things?) and Draft are all valid FNM formats, so when someone gets bored with Standard they might still have the other two options.

Personally, on Friday nights I think my local store only hosts Draft tournaments. When people get bored with it, they play casual games.

I'd like to have regular Extended tournaments in my local shop, but until it becomes a valid FNM format it isn't going to happen.



 


That's weird. How come people at your shop never get bored of Standard?





I'm pretty sure Standard, Limited (or is Sealed Deck the correct term? Or are they different things?) and Draft are all valid FNM formats, so when someone gets bored with Standard they might still have the other two options.

Personally, on Friday nights I think my local store only hosts Draft tournaments. When people get bored with it, they play casual games.



When people talk about 'Limited', they are referring to any format where you create your deck from a set pool you get at the time of the event.  Generally, this is either Sealed or Draft tournaments.
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The article was really good, except for this part.

"Coalition Relic is a card I must have just missed the last time around. This card is superior to Darksteel Ingot in every way..."

Do you understand what "indestructible" means?

Indeed, especially considering he says artifact destruction is a problem... although even reaching three mana can be problematic when the artifact destruction you face is one mana a-piece. Still, I don't see many situations where he'd really need to put a charge counter on the Relic. Maybe if he gets to Restore Balance with only one Borderpost and the Relic on the battlefield and he needs to reach three mana, or if he lacks mana to cast Tezzeret post-RB.  That's a close call.

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The article was really good, except for this part.

"Coalition Relic is a card I must have just missed the last time around. This card is superior to Darksteel Ingot in every way..."

Do you understand what "indestructible" means?

Indeed, especially considering he says artifact destruction is a problem... although even reaching three mana can be problematic when the artifact destruction you face is one mana a-piece. Still, I don't see many situations where he'd really need to put a charge counter on the Relic. Maybe if he gets to Restore Balance with only one Borderpost and the Relic on the battlefield and he needs to reach three mana, or if he lacks mana to cast Tezzeret post-RB.  That's a close call.



Indestructability doesn't seem like all that big an advantage because there are so many other targets for removal: 18 borderposts. Assume someone is going to sideboard in four Naturalize or whatever their chosen artifact removal is; against this deck as it is, the Naturalizes would be destined for the Coalition Relics, but if this deck played Darksteel Ingots instead of the relics, the Naturalizes would just hit the borderposts instead.
I would like to see a Part 2 to this article tweaking it to make it more successful.  It seems a great deck idea, but the exact same concept looks like beat him at his own game using Living End and cascading into it for free.  Sure, Hypergensis might not be around, but the idea of the deck cascading into free powerful spells looks like it still might be a winner.

I understand that he stated that Coalition Relic is better, that is obviously up for debate.  The fact of the matter is that this deck was designed for Extended, where Darksteel Ingot is not allowed.
I like the approach overall, but it seems that it lacks the 'oomph' to get the job done consistantly.  Getting the REstore Balance for free needs to be a game ender or set up the game ending situation.  You also need to be void of cards in hands and have minimal lands in play to really make sure you eat their lunch. 

Currently, the greater gargadon is the killer of choice.  Personally, I'm not sold on it.  I do find the match up against the other "free cascade" spell of living end to be a good point.  The writer wanted Restore Balance for the win. His opponent wanted Living End for the win.  Looks like the LIving End deck was better suited in this case to beat face.  See, when his opponent set off the living end, it was a massive change in board state to a winning controllling position.  Sure his oppoent could have been swept with a day of judgement, but it would easier for the gargadon be swept away with a top deck Plains followed by a path to exile.

The write hit one way to win with the balance; Planewalkers.  He currently is using Tezz, but what about other walkers who are undervalued right now? 

More later, when I am not at work.

I currently play Ajani Vengeant as he is a backup Balance, creature control, and a kill if needed.  Being able to lock down a permanant is important post Balance as it may be the differance between Path to Exile, of a 1 Drop that can get in there.  I actually try to Balance as soon as I know I will wreck them.  If they don't drop a land, Balance.  If they fill the board, Balance.  Violent OUtburst is the best card for Balance, and if I don't have it ready to go, I pro-actively Balance because in Extended there is still a good amount of Vengevine and BBE
Here are some of my ideas on how to build a better version:

Flagstones of Trokair are $4 each.  For the instant speed version of the cacade, the flagstones allow you play a 2nd one, causing both to be sacrificed. Once the two triggers are on the stack, you cast the cascade/balance spell in response. 

Totems:  Yep, good old Phrexian Totem would be my choice.  The red and blue ones could be considered as well.  They cost :sym3: and provide :symb: otherwise.  Nice add. The red one likely should be considered as well.  But the Phrexian Totem allows you to keep a beastly 5/5 trampler in play for the whipping to come.  This is a very strong alternative to 'more borderposts'.

I like the basic land-cycle creatures.  they allow you to find the mana you need early while giving a beater on the draw after the balance.  Further, at 5 mana you can cycle your igneous pouncer to find a land and in response cast the cascade spell.  This gives you a single soon to be in hand land advantage coming off the restore balance. A turn four cycle gives you the mountain or swamp play for the turn, allowing them to tap for mana, sacrifice to a suspended Gargadon adn still screw your opponent out of their hand position. 

Lasty, you may want to consider Liliana Vess.  She can force removal from your hand (yes she can target you) allowing a 0 hand balance.  She can fetch a land to put on top.  She can find the cascade spell.  She can win on her own with no creatures left in play, no lands in play, no cards in hand. 






To the guy that made a comment about extended being FNM viable...ummm it is.  Its Time Spiral forward, that was the whole reason they changed it...

About the deck eh...even the wins he got were only game ones.  I think in matches this deck would get crushed.  But thats just me.  I like the idea though.
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
nothing really to add over what's already been said, just want to reinforce the notion that Coalition Relic is indeed NOT strictly better than Darksteel Ingot.  most relevant is the indestructability.  he got raped by Ingot Chewers in the LE matchup.  Ingots would be invaluable in situations like that (yes yes, i know they arent legal anymore, just sayin').  also, CR is a rare compared to DI at common.  not relevant in terms of functionality or playability, but this IS BoaB, and i thought that deserved to be mentioned.  CR might be a $.50 rare, but you can pick up 10 playsets of Ingots for the price of one Relic.  maybe we'll get DI back with SoM.

i was originally on the fence about Gargadon, but the more i think about it, the better it seems.  i played the older extended version of this deck a lot last year, and it always sucked getting into positions where you actually had a couple lands in play when Balance resolved, giving your opponent a huge helping hand.  if your gonna Balance, you need it to be as effective as possible in order to guarantee a big enough advantage to ride for the win.  the ability to sac your lands in response to Balance leaving them with (virtually) nothing on the board is huge.  he ends the game pretty fast, too.  not quite Tezzeret fast, but much faster than Phyrexian Totem in the previous version, especially with Rift Bolt backup.

but much like the older version of the deck, i don't think it's tier1 material.  it completely rolls the favorable matchups, but i'd be surprised to see it make it in a sea of little blue guys backed by counters, as well as so much good artifact destruction being played (which im sure will only increase in the next few months). 
Balance is also pretty sadface against other decks that run artifact acceleration.  granted, at the moment, those decks are few and far between, but maybe not so much here in a couple months.
i also think the deck could have trouble against the myriad of planeswalkers that are floating around nowadays.  leaving your opponent with a Jace, Elspeth, or Gideon on the board hurts alot, unless you can immediately follow up with Tezzeret or Gargadon out of suspend (which probably won't happen soon enough in those matchups).

i've always liked the concept of cascading into a RB, and i'd love to see it start doing well (mainly because of it being a budget friendly option right now).  but in order for that to happen, i belive it's gonna need a LOT of work to be able to seriously compete.
The article was really good, except for this part.

"Coalition Relic is a card I must have just missed the last time around. This card is superior to Darksteel Ingot in every way..."

Do you understand what "indestructible" means?

Indeed, especially considering he says artifact destruction is a problem... although even reaching three mana can be problematic when the artifact destruction you face is one mana a-piece. Still, I don't see many situations where he'd really need to put a charge counter on the Relic. Maybe if he gets to Restore Balance with only one Borderpost and the Relic on the battlefield and he needs to reach three mana, or if he lacks mana to cast Tezzeret post-RB.  That's a close call.



Indestructability doesn't seem like all that big an advantage because there are so many other targets for removal: 18 borderposts. Assume someone is going to sideboard in four Naturalize or whatever their chosen artifact removal is; against this deck as it is, the Naturalizes would be destined for the Coalition Relics, but if this deck played Darksteel Ingots instead of the relics, the Naturalizes would just hit the borderposts instead.


None the less, saying the relic is better "in every way" isn't really an intelligent remark.
For dealing with Faeries, I'd say either play Vendillon Clique yourself or even Perish the Thought for three mana disruption.
To the guy that made a comment about extended being FNM viable...ummm it is.  Its Time Spiral forward, that was the whole reason they changed it...



Are you aware of the legality of extended?  FNM is currently a Standard, Sealed (once a month), draft format.  No where in my searching has Wizards announced that Extended is FNM legal yet.  If it is please link me to it so I can get it at my shop as such.
The article was really good, except for this part.

"Coalition Relic is a card I must have just missed the last time around. This card is superior to Darksteel Ingot in every way..."

Do you understand what "indestructible" means?

Indeed, especially considering he says artifact destruction is a problem... although even reaching three mana can be problematic when the artifact destruction you face is one mana a-piece. Still, I don't see many situations where he'd really need to put a charge counter on the Relic. Maybe if he gets to Restore Balance with only one Borderpost and the Relic on the battlefield and he needs to reach three mana, or if he lacks mana to cast Tezzeret post-RB.  That's a close call.



Indestructability doesn't seem like all that big an advantage because there are so many other targets for removal: 18 borderposts. Assume someone is going to sideboard in four Naturalize or whatever their chosen artifact removal is; against this deck as it is, the Naturalizes would be destined for the Coalition Relics, but if this deck played Darksteel Ingots instead of the relics, the Naturalizes would just hit the borderposts instead.


None the less, saying the relic is better "in every way" isn't really an intelligent remark.


I think he meant "better in every way" in this deck. Which it is. In a vacuum, it obviously isn't strictly better, but it's arguably an overall better card than the Ingot.
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57051078 wrote:
I just love how focused the YMtC community is.
56901828 wrote:
That's what I love about posting on these forums. Everyone's an expert(except for me).
57031358 wrote:
really no need to be so bitchy.
58021268 wrote:
@Edacade: Awright kid you go on ahead and do your thing and don't let anyone tell you different y'hear
58335208 wrote:
City of Asymmetrical Beings Land :T:, sacrifice a creature: Destroy target creature with the same converted mana cost as the sacrificed creature.
56957928 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
Might I just interject that making this a meme is the worst idea in magic in my opinion. It is too overpowered. It encourages cheating it in play. Essentially 99/100 times it is cheated in play instead of hardcast. Not only that, but you essentially win when it comes into play.
74943291 wrote:
82512575 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Make five-color hybrid tribal instant with buyback, kicker, cycling, card draw, token production, a steal effect, alternate casting cost and landfall that embodies the love that your mom and I share.
I think you just killed all chances of my card being elegant. Ardency :1mana::symwu::symbr: Tribal Instant - Soldier You may have target opponent gain control of 3 permanents you control rather than pay ~'s mana cost. As an additional cost to cast ~, choose two creatures you control, and sacrifice the rest. If you control a soldier, you can't sacrifice permanents this turn. Landfall - If you had a land enter the battlefield under your control this turn, instead choose 4 creatures. Kicker You get an emblem with "As long as you control both chosen creatures, they have protection from everything." If ~ was kicked, creatures you control get +1/+1 for each creature card in your graveyard until end of turn. Cycling :2mana: When you cycle ~, put two 2/2 Soldier creatures onto the battlefield. Would this EVER fit on a card?~
Aside from a few wording mishaps (should say "each chosen creature" because it's not necessarily two) this is nice. Very simple and elegant. I like the alternate cost a lot, and the kicker goes nicely with the sacrifice. However, the cycling seems a bit powerful (4 power and a card for 3? Cycling is supposed be bad. 8/10 EDIT: Just looked up "ardency". Lol.
58347268 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
58325628 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I'm immortalized too as long as no one deletes this post!
But in the shadow of the great one lurked many who sought to partake of his eternal glory.
Since when am I "many"?
You're a whole damn city.
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Ahem.
58021268 wrote:
Vivisect Sorcery As an additional cost to cast Vivisect, sacrifice a creature. Draw three cards. "For the sake of humanity," the surgeon whispered. The knife had never felt heavier in his hand.
I don't think a world that sacrifices so much would want to stop the making of children .
Vivisect =/= vasectomy
Now I just feel silly.
56287226 wrote:
I read over two hundred webcomics on a regular basis. "Terrible" doesn't even begin to describe me.
70246459 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I think that this is the first wizards-community thread that actually made me laugh out loud. Maraxas, I love you.
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58347268 wrote:
batman is a jerk in all of my dreams
mafia is fun so play it
Are you aware of the legality of extended?  FNM is currently a Standard, Sealed (once a month), draft format.  No where in my searching has Wizards announced that Extended is FNM legal yet.  If it is please link me to it so I can get it at my shop as such.


The TO at my shop has been able to sanction Block Constructed as an FNM format, even though he shouldn't be able to according to Wizards FNM page. He says we can't do extended though.

I'd like to mention another card that the OP might consider:
Metotic Slime

It can be sacrifced for the gargadon to remove a total of 7 counters.  Basically it is a super accelerator to get teh Gargadon out on turn 4.
I'm not sure the deck needs to run 31 'lands'!  Also, I feel that 5 colours makes the deck quite clunky.  I think it could be streamlined to, say, Jund, which still gives you 8 cascade spells (12 if you run bloodbraid elf but then you might hit a 3 drop).  You can then also run spells like Blightning.
I think running 12 total cascade spells is a little greedy. Hypergenesis didn't run nearly that many and it was still successful. Taking other hints from Hypergenesis, I'd maindeck 4 Simian Spirit Guides. For dealing with Living End, you might need Leyline of the Void in the sideboard. You'll lose it after playing RB, but you should win that matchup if you play it before they play LE.