V set Discussion list (Spoilers)


EDIT I have also put this thread up on SWGamers It will be interesting to see which forum gets the most posts.


OK the first info has started to come out about the V Set. One characters full stats has been given, however we have all been asked to to publish this character name and stats for a lest 1 week. That would be next Tuesday (GMT) before that character can be listed.

This thread is to talk about the characters and stats. Please do not post here if you are one of the many play testers unless you have permission to do so by the designers. Well by all means post but do not give hints or confirm or deny members guesses

What we know

OK we know the character for set number 8/60 and that character will be filled in next week. We also know that this will be a 60 character set & all factions will be in the first V Set. There will be about the same many unique characters in this set as there were in the WOTC  60 sets, so approx 22 to 26. So here go's. Please note i have noinside info myself. EDIT OK I am a play tester now, however I will only put up officially released data.
.

* full name and position in set not confirmed
NC = Not Confirmed.
RM= recommended mini to use for V Set mini/ please note though, it is only a recommendation.

NEW INFO Friday 20th
There will be 7 Yuuzhan Vong characters and a Yammosk (not a unique) and 5 New Republic characters and Salacious Crumb is confirmed to be in the set. Thanks to the guys at SHNN for the info

Release Date 1st December 2010 (subject to change)

LAST UPDATE WAS ON 23/SEP/2010 info is now in posts 1&2

Set is Called Destiny of the Force

OLD REPUBLIC

01.Bastila Shan, Jedi Master
Cost=
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DEF=
ATT=
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RM=Bastila Shan

02.Jedi Seer
Cost= 27
HP= 80
DEF=18
ATT=10
Damage=20

Special Abilities
Melee Attack. Double Attack.
Evade (When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11.)
Jedi Reflexes (This character can make an attack of opportunity against an enemy character that moves into or out of an adjacent square. Characters with special abilities that ignore characters while moving are subject to this ability.)

Quick Reactions (+6 Attack when making attacks of opportunity)

Force Powers
Force 3
Surprise Move (Force 1: At the start of the round, after initiative is determined, this character may move up to its Speed before any other character activates.)
RM=


03.Old Republic Senator
Cost=11
HP=10
DEF=14
ATT=0
Damage=0
SA= Diplomat,
CE=At the end of this character's turn one Old Republic Follower within 6 squares can make an immediate attack at +10 Damage
RM= Mon Cal Medic

04.
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05.
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06.
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07.
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SITH

08.Darth Bandon
Cost = 27
HP = 110
Def = 19
Att = 11
Damage = 20
SA = Unique, Melee, Double Attack
FP = Force 4, Force Grip 2, Lightsaber Riposte , Sith Rage
CE = Allies within 6 squares gain +10 Damage against adjacent enemies
RM= Sith Apprentice

09.Darth Revan, Sith Lord
Cost=57
HP=130
DEF=22
ATT=14
Damage=20
SA= Unique. Melee Attack, Double attack
Cunning Attack (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against an enemy who has not activated this round)
Master Tactician (You automatically choose who goes first except on a roll of 1)
Force Powers=Force 2. Force Renewal 1. Master of the Force 2.
Master speed (Force 1: This character can move 6 extra squares on its turn as part of its move)
Lightsaber Defense (Force 1: When hit by an attack, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Lightsaber Assault (Force 1, replaces attacks: Make 2 attacks)
RM= Darth Revan

10.Exar Kun' Dark Force Spirit
Cost = 14
HP=N/A
DEF=N/A
ATT=N/A
damage=N/A
SA= Unique
Speed 4
Dark Spirit (Ignores characters and terrain. Cannot open doors. Cannot attack or be damaged and does not count as a legal target. the nearest enemy, or adjacent. Not subject to commander effects. Does not provide cover. At the start of the skirmish choose a Unique allied character with a Force rating. That ally gains Force Renewal 1 and Sith Rage (Force 1:This character gets +10 damage on all of his attacksthis turn) while within 4 squares of this character. This character is defeated if the chosen ally is defeated. An enemy within 6 squares can spend 1 force point to defeat this character; save 11. this effect replaces that enemy's attacks

Drain Force (Range 2: replaces attacks; Target enemy character with a Force rating, loses 1 Force point and this character gains 1 Force point.)

FP= Force 2
Dark Aura (Force 1, replaces attacks; for the rest of the skirmish this character gains the following: enemy characters within 6 squares get -4 to all saves.)

CE= Allies with a force rating within 6 squares of this character may spend his force points
RM =Exar Kun

11.Sith Acolyte
Cost=21
HP=70
DEF=17
ATT=6
Damage=10
SA= Lightsaber (+10 damage against adjacent enemies)
Bravado 10 (+4 attack and +10 Damage against adjacent enemies with a higher point cost)
FP= Force 3
Force Repulse 3 (Force 3, replaces turn, 30 Damage to all characters within 3 squares: push back Huge or smaller characters 4 squares. Huge or smaller characters are considered activated this round: save 11)
RM= Dark Side Acolyte (Clone Strike)

12.
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REPUBLIC
13.
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14.
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RM=

15. Ki-Adi Mundi, Jedi Master
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RM= Ki-Adi-Mundi




SEPARATISTS
16.
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17.00M-9
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18.
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19.Series 11 Destroyer Droid
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20
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REBEL
21.  Lieutenant Page
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22. Rebel Commando, Munitions Expert
Cost=11
HP=30
DEF=14
ATT=5
Damage=10
SA= Grenades 10 (Replaces attacks: Range 6; 10 damage to target and to each adjacent target; save 11)
Satchel Charge: Replaces attacks; Designate 1 adjacent door as open; it remains open for the rest of the skirmish and cannot be closed)
Stealth (If this character has cover, it does not count as the nearest enemy for an attack farther than 6 squares away)
RM= Rebel Commando ( rebel storm version)

23.Wedge's Snowspeeder
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EMPIRE
24.
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25.
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26
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27.
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28.Noghri Warrior
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29.Ruhk
Cost=18
HP=70
DEF=18
ATT=10
Damage=20
SA=unique, Melee
Thrawns Bodyguard - If Grand Admiral Thrawn is an adjacent ally and would take damage from an attack, this character can take the damage instead
Charging assault +10 - Replaces turn: Can move up to double speed, then make an attack at +10 Damage against an adjacent enemy
Cloaked - If this character has cover, it cannot be targeted by nonadjacent enemies
Cleave - Once per turn, if this character defeats an adjacent enemy by making an attack, it can make 1 immediate attack against another adjacent enemy
Internal strife - On an attack roll of natural 1, this character joins the opponent's squad until the end of the skirmish
Vicious Attack - This character does triple damage on critical hits
RM=


30.
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CONTINUED IN POST 2

NEW REPUBLIC
31.
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32.
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33.
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34.
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35.Jedi Demolitionist (confirmed)
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36.
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FRINGE
37.
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38.Han solo, Gambler
Cost=21
HP=60
DEF=16
ATT=8
Damage=20
SA= unique
Accurate shot (Can attack an enemy with cover even if it's not the nearest enemy)
Long shot +10 (+4 Attack and+10 damage when this character is at half Hit Points or less)
Evade (When hit by an attack from a nonadjacent enemy, this character takes no damage with a save of 11)
Gamblers luck (once per turn this character can reroll an attack adding +4 to the result. If the attack misses this character takes 10dmg)
RM= Han Solo

39.
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40. 
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41.Nautolan Black Sun Vigo 
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42.
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43.
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44.Salacious Crumb (Confirmed character/ set No not confirmed)Cost=
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45.Tusken Chieftain
Cost=15
HP=40
DEF=15
ATT= 8
Damage=20
SA=Melee Attack
Mighty Swing (On his turn, if this character doesn't move he gets +10 Damage against adjacent enemies)
Double Attack
CE
Allied tuskens gain Gang +1
RM=


46.YVH 1 (Yuuzhan Vong Hunter Droid)
Cost=20
HP=60
DEF=15
ATT=9
Damage=10
SA=Droid
Twin Attack (Whenever this character attacks, it makes 1 extra attack against the same target)
Vong Hunter (+4 Attack and +10 Damage against Yuuzhan Vong enemies)
Laminanium Armor (When this character activates, remove 10 damage from it)
Missiles 30 (Replaces attacks: sight; 30 damage to target and to each character adjacent to that target; save 11)
RM=PENDING


MANDALORE

47.
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48.
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49.
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50.
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51.Mandolorian Counter-Intelligence Officer
Cost=12
HP=40
DEF=17
ATT=6
Damage=10
SA= Cloaked,
Black Ops (Supress enemy commander effects that alter the number of turns per phase)
RM= Shadow Stormtrooper

52.
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53.
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YUUZHAN VONG
54.Nen Yim
Cost=27
HP=70
DEF=16
Att=8
Damage=20
SA=  Unique
Melee Attack
Force Immunity (Enemies cannot affect this character with Force powers, or spend Force
points to reroll attacks against this character or to respond to this character's attacks and abilities)

Thudbug (Replaces attacks: range 6; 10 damage, living target is considered activated this
round; save 11 negates. Huge and larger characters ignore the nondamaging effect.)

Master Shaper - (choose one YV ally, that character gains +4 +10 dmg and Demolish for the rest of the skirmish)
Shaper - (YV allies within 6 squares get +10 dmg)
RM=Yuuzhan vong Shaper (NC)


55.Shedao Shai
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56. Supreme Overlord Shimmra
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57.
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58.
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59.

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60.Yammosk War Coordinator
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SA=
RM= Kobby White Spider







OK lets start guessing who we going to get.
Kinda hard to think what non-unique characters the desingers have come up with so not going to try and guess at this point. Here is my list of unique characters i hope we get. not in any order.

Nomi Sunrider Jedi Master.
Master Thon, though not sure who i would get to repersent the mini
Tott Doneeta

sith Darth Revan with  Affinity Old Republic.
Darth Zannah


Lt Page Rebel with Affinty for New Republic
A rebel Mon Mothma
Wedge Rouge Squadron

Joruus C'baoth

Overlord Shimirra
Yen Nim

Ok just a few big wants, sure others will name  a lot i  have not thought of.

If you are asking, I would love to see the following:

 - War Droid of Zim the despot
 - Ghent
 - Gallandro
 - Shug Ninx
 - Bollux & Blue Max (one model)
 - Niles Ferrier
 - Ysanne Isard
 - Captain Pelleaon
 - Dianoga
 - Joruus C'baoth
 - Platt Okeffe
 - Mekuum Repulsor Scout (Huge base with passenger capacity)
 - Mobquet Flare-S swoop (Large base with passenger capacity)
 - Jan Ors
 - Bria Tharen
 - Prince Isolder (with his personal shields and gun of command)
 - Dathomir witch (we could use a new faction here possibly)
 - Dathomir witch on rancor
 - Dathormir nightsister (we could use a new faction here possibly too)
 - Gethzerion
 - Winter

I could go on to this post's size limit but I'll let you chew on those for now. Cool
I would love to see the characters from the Thawn trilogy we do not have yet.

Platt Okeffe now that's a name i have not herd in a long time, I would love to see her.
I could keep going...

 - Dyyz "Megadeath" Nataz and Spurch Goa (separate bases).
 - Carnor Jax (Kir Kanos needs a nemesis)
 - Jodo Cast
 - Dzym the Droch
 - Corporate Sector Authority ESPO Trooper
 - Corporate Sector Authority ESPO Trooper with repeating cannon
 - Salla Zend
 - Big Gizz and spiker on swoop bikes (separate large bases).
 - Dash Rendar with jet pack
 - Dash Rendar with swoop bike
 - Mazzic
 - Hutt repulsor sled (with passenger capacity)
 - Borsk Fey'lya
 - ATPT (large base)
 - Thracken Sal Solo
 - Zorba the Hutt
 - Gank Mercenary
 - Lord Hethrir
 - Vima-Da-Boda
 - Ploovo Two-For-One
 - Jerec
 - IG-88a
 - IG-88b
 - IG-88c
 - IG-88d

Chew on those...
@all
V set? would you care to inform me as to what this is/when it is happening?
That way i can get excited/into the hype of a virtual set!
Laughing

Id like to see a bunch of non-unique cool looking jedi and separatists,
not to mention so rambo-style rebels and some skull crushing stormies.

Id also like to see;
LAAT
ATTE
ATOT
Turret Droid (from the EP1 artbook)
Assorted droids,
Vehicles from around the galaxy,
Alien NPCs

Also, check out Lord Ball's custom set! He is making one off the top of his head! There are some pretty neat ideas, and the stats are well designed. Be sure to look for Tsui Choi, a cool mini for sure!

Kobayashimaru
@all
V set? would you care to inform me as to what this is/when it is happening?
That way i can get excited/into the hype of a virtual set!





basicly Virtual sets...a group of well known players have banded together to keep making stats that the players wanted but never got, I say stats because they aren't making new minis just new stat cards to be used with existing minis. its all being done at this link : swmgamers.com/forums/

ThorvaldHafgrimsson wrote:
Life is full of choices. Sometimes you make the good ones, and sometimes you have to kill all the witnesses.
NastasiaLorn; wrote:
But then you have to pay the liability insurance.
A note about character and world creation
Show
Character and world creation are a form of expression. The point is that some people don't have much to say...
57949688 wrote:
Why doesnt anyone ever sig my qoutes!?
On the subject of who post in the Off-Topic Tavern:
57131438 wrote:
most of them are bored, immature adults.
Offical troller of the House of Trolls
Following on from what TS said, The set is due out this Oct/Nov exact date is not known yet. However previews have started with preview 1 available now if you look for it. 3 others will be given out at Gencon this year. I will list all of them above (post 1)  when i have permission to do so. should be next week hopefully.

It is true that the V-Sets are just cards as no new minis will be out but there will be ideas of how to customize figures for them, Thats not saying you have to customize figures it is just an option for those who want to do so.

The cards as far as i know will be available to download weather or not you will be able to buy a set of cards more like the ones WOTC did might be an option but do not count on it considering the cost involved in doing so. but i read somewhere that it is been looked into.
They previewed 4 at GenCon. Because of that, I would assume it is okay to list them. I saw them and think they will be fun and useful.
They previewed 4 at GenCon. Because of that, I would assume it is okay to list them. I saw them and think they will be fun and useful.



Very cool, well unfortunetly I did not atend Gencon. Can you please list them and I will add them to post 1.
Many thanks
Dreadtech

One was the Exar Kun you mentioned and it is a spirit. If I remember right it is around 12 pts. and gives Rage to followers or allies. There is a Mandolorian that has a Black Ops ability that prevents the usage of special abilities or commander effects that apply to activation control (such as Dodonna, Ozzel, San, etc.).

This one will be very welcome to many people that like Mandos but simply cannot play them against those that control tempo. To be honest I really cannot even remember the other 2 although I looked at them as I played 25 games in 3 days and much of it was a blur. I think these are finished V-Set cards minus a bit of polish etc. but I heard more than once that the V-Set cards are being extensively playtested and stats/abilities, etc. may continue to be tweaked up to the release date.

They are doing a really great job designing the cards and making new abilities that enhance the game going forward. I cannot wait to get the finished set.

Dread, feel free to post any previews now.  I appreciate letting the boys have their moment, and people did indeed listen to their podcast.  Several people were giving preview/promo cards for the V-set at Gencon.  So someone should have the full stats - so you will have 5/60 once someone shares it.
Dread, feel free to post any previews now.  I appreciate letting the boys have their moment, and people did indeed listen to their podcast.  Several people were giving preview/promo cards for the V-set at Gencon.  So someone should have the full stats - so you will have 5/60 once someone shares it.




Thanks Bill.

I will post Darth Bandon now and will the others once i find them.
kinda disappointing commander effect, cant we move away from the fringe domination. i mean come on dash bane boba dont need any more help.

other than the commander effect i dont mind him.

change the commander effect to only affect allies with melee attack and you got a winner.
Updated. 10 Aug
Gencon previews added.
I have mixed feelings on the set so far, possibly because I'm a bit too much of a "purist." I was expecting that, since the WotC paradigm has shifted to 40 pieces for the past 5 or 6 sets, that the V-Sets would be 40 pieces. If they're going back to 60, I hope they're not using the 40-piece art...

Old Republic Senator: Not a bad piece. I expect he'll see a decent amount of use with some of the unique Twin shooters (Mira, Atton [with CzerkSci], even Bao-Dur and maybe Carth). The CE is nice, but might be more useful to the faction if it also contained a +4 Attack (since the majority of the options have pretty low Attack scores). Unfortunately, beyond the Twin shooters, I don't know how useful the CE will be, since the Old Rep has many melee pieces (limited attack options) and few damage boosters.

Darth Bandon: A solid piece. I knew a few people have called him overpriced, but I just think he's marginally aggressively priced. If WotC made him and put in him the Republic or Rebel faction, he'd probably cost 21.

Hopefully, another piece in the set will address one of the factions biggest problems: that +10 damage vs adjacent opponents doesn't mean much when you die before you get adjacent.

Exar Kun: Very mixed feelings on this one. I like Dark Force Spirit, and expect that it will show up on some odd combos (I could see it working very well with many Fringe pieces--Cade Skywalker, Jarael, Kriea, even Jolee Bindo).

On the other hand, much of the rest of the character seems redundant or needlessly complicated. Since it's just 1 FP, it would streamline the character if Dark Aura were a flat special ability rather than a Force power that needs to be activated (and would ultimately have little impact on the use of the character in most games). Similarly, Drain Force seems to be a needlesss customization of Steal Force. I understand that there are a few differences, but I just don't know if they're worth it.

My biggest issue, perhaps, is the commander effect. Exar himself already gives Force Renewal to a single ally, and HoloSid can do it for the rest of the squad. Is it really necessary to have him also allow others to spend his FP? Seems a bit like overkill, especially when there are so many other areas where the Sith could use help.

Sith Acolyte: I'm really not sure what to make of this dude. The good: the Acolyte should have been in the Sith faction from the start!

Bravado seems somewhat random, and I'm not sure that the Sith need yet another damage booster. If anything, I imagine Death Strike might have worked a little better thematically (since these guys often swarmed you in KotOR) and would also have synergized nicely with Bandon's commander effect.

Force Repulse bothers me a bit from a "purist" point of view. Sure, anything can chance, but as of now, Force Repulse is basically a "good guy" power... well, okay, maybe a "good guy on the edge" power. Of the 7 pieces with Force Repulse, 6 are light side, and one is Fringe. It's not as extreme as Sith Rage on a light side character (which can also happen), but it seems a bit sloppy to me.

Mandalorian Counter-Intelligence Officer: I don't have a solid opinion yet because the stats seem incomplete/incorrect.







I have mixed feelings on the set so far, possibly because I'm a bit too much of a "purist." I was expecting that, since the WotC paradigm has shifted to 40 pieces for the past 5 or 6 sets, that the V-Sets would be 40 pieces. If they're going back to 60, I hope they're not using the 40-piece art...


You can see the cards for the Gencon prviews over at swmgamers.  You will be glad to know they have changed the cards around (though I personally don't like the look of them), they are ... interesting.

Old Republic Senator: Not a bad piece. I expect he'll see a decent amount of use with some of the unique Twin shooters (Mira, Atton [with CzerkSci], even Bao-Dur and maybe Carth). The CE is nice, but might be more useful to the faction if it also contained a +4 Attack (since the majority of the options have pretty low Attack scores). Unfortunately, beyond the Twin shooters, I don't know how useful the CE will be, since the Old Rep has many melee pieces (limited attack options) and few damage boosters.


Mira is an Excellent choice, But I agree that the CE might have been better as +4 to attack (though I would like to add: instead of +10 damage)


Darth Bandon: A solid piece. I knew a few people have called him overpriced, but I just think he's marginally aggressively priced. If WotC made him and put in him the Republic or Rebel faction, he'd probably cost 21.

Hopefully, another piece in the set will address one of the factions biggest problems: that +10 damage vs adjacent opponents doesn't mean much when you die before you get adjacent.


He's certainly not overcosted, unfortunately it seems the goal with him was to make hiom essentially an "auto-include"  much like rieekan is for Rebels.... I personally find the "auto-include" figures as a bad thing.

Exar Kun: Very mixed feelings on this one. I like Dark Force Spirit, and expect that it will show up on some odd combos (I could see it working very well with many Fringe pieces--Cade Skywalker, Jarael, Kriea, even Jolee Bindo).

On the other hand, much of the rest of the character seems redundant or needlessly complicated. Since it's just 1 FP, it would streamline the character if Dark Aura were a flat special ability rather than a Force power that needs to be activated (and would ultimately have little impact on the use of the character in most games). Similarly, Drain Force seems to be a needlesss customization of Steal Force. I understand that there are a few differences, but I just don't know if they're worth it.

My biggest issue, perhaps, is the commander effect. Exar himself already gives Force Renewal to a single ally, and HoloSid can do it for the rest of the squad. Is it really necessary to have him also allow others to spend his FP? Seems a bit like overkill, especially when there are so many other areas where the Sith could use help.


Pretty much my thoughts exactly, esspecially on Drain Force - They could have just made a "Steal Force 2"  which changed the range from "touch" to Range 2.  Other things about him that I have issues with - The card says nothing about how he can be defeated (while it's the same as other FS characters I feel this is a huge oversight, it doesn't matter that they'll put out an FAQ/rules insert this is certainly vital information to have ON CARD)!  Steal force 2... er drain force is the only option to make his CE useable which just adds to the pointless-ness of the CE.

Sith Acolyte: I'm really not sure what to make of this dude. The good: the Acolyte should have been in the Sith faction from the start!

Bravado seems somewhat random, and I'm not sure that the Sith need yet another damage booster. If anything, I imagine Death Strike might have worked a little better thematically (since these guys often swarmed you in KotOR) and would also have synergized nicely with Bandon's commander effect.

Force Repulse bothers me a bit from a "purist" point of view. Sure, anything can chance, but as of now, Force Repulse is basically a "good guy" power... well, okay, maybe a "good guy on the edge" power. Of the 7 pieces with Force Repulse, 6 are light side, and one is Fringe. It's not as extreme as Sith Rage on a light side character (which can also happen), but it seems a bit sloppy to me.

  My main gripe about this figure is that the Dark Side Adept from ROTS would have been a much better representing figure since this character lacks melee and double (or twin)


Mandalorian Counter-Intelligence Officer: I don't have a solid opinion yet because the stats seem incomplete/incorrect.


I get the feeling they were going for another auto-include with this figure, and black ops should probably state "activations" rather than "turns". 
Custom Minis link fixed - Feel free to comment Trade Thread Galaxy Tiles Mapper
The Mando has 40 HP and 17 Def.

Bandon is fine, but I think Exar is far more powerful. There is a bit of overlap, but the squads I will be using Exar over Bandon are completely different squads.
Card design: You're right, LB, the new design is... interesting. Can't say I love it; can't say I hate it. But it'll take some getting used to. Sorta looks like it should be called "SagaClix."

Old Rep Senator: I think we agree. A good piece that I wish were just a *little* better. As a long-time support of the Old Republic, though, this is pretty much what I've gotten used to expecting. Heck, it's probably better support than if WotC had done it.

Darth Bandon: Maybe they intend for him to be an auto-include, but since he costs almost twice as much as Rieekan. To me, that makes him a pretty risky choice. While he is aggressively priced, since he has Melee Attack and his CE is pretty much limited to melee range, I personally would think very, very carefully before including him.

Doesn't make him a bad piece, though. I like him; I just probably wouldn't use him as often as others.

Exar Kun: I think we agree that he's basically an interesting idea that has been poorly executed.

I agree with you completely about the card. I know a lot of customizers will cut ability descriptions to get more on the card, but as a traditionalist, I figure if I can't fit my character on a card using the same guidelines that WotC used, that custom has failed and needs to be edited.

Since the good folk as SWMGamers aer calling the shots now, they are, of course, free to do as the like. But if they're actively deciding to use different design philosophies than those used by WotC, that is going to have a subtle (but eventually quite palpable) impact on future direction (and also a negative impact on the existing pieces that are "limited" by WotC's "constraints").

Leaving off something like how to defeat the piece, even if it appears in the glossary, is a crippling mistake in my opinion, especially when there are so many ways that the piece could be streamlined.

Sith Acolyte: Crikey, I just assumed it was the DS Adept being used! Hopefully, unless they're using the DS Adept somewhere else, someone over there will realize that it's a better piece than the Acolyte.

Mandalorian Counter-Intelligence Officer: Even with the full stats, I'm having a hard time having a concrete opinion. On one hand, I like that it addresses one of the major weaknesses of the Mandos (activation control). On the other hand, I don't know that I love the way it does so. There's something... "inelegant" about it (for lack of a better term).

As an auto-include, it's a pretty risk piece. Sure, he's only 12 points, but if you're facing a squad that Black Ops won't work on, you're spending 12 points on a pretty crappy piece. Sure, he's got Cloaked, but with his low Attack and Damage, that won't make much of a diffference (without a lot of support, at least).

There's also something about him that feels somewhat non-Mandalorian. Not sure if it's the name (Do the Mandos even HAVE counter-intelligence? Shouldn't an Officer have a commander effect?) of the abilities.

I hope SWMGamers does a better job proofing before the final release that WotC did. There are at least two typos/mistakes/printing errors on this guy and at least FIVE on Exar. I think there's 1 or 2 on the Acolyte as well.





I imagine they will probably use the DS Adept as a "trans-gender" Adjunta Pall, but if not the Sith Acolyte really missed the mark in my mind.

Every "auto-include" is risky in some way - Rieekan won't help as much against direct damage squads or melee centric super-stealth squads as he would against other squads, but generally they are going to boost the factions in their respective areas (Sith is rather melee-centric), so it yields a bit of stale flavoring to the Factions in my opinion.  As for the Mando, I don't think he's terribly undercosted(15 feels more appropriate to me) - I just got the feeling that the combination of Cloaked and Black Ops intends him to be an auto-include, regardless of crappy stats.
Custom Minis link fixed - Feel free to comment Trade Thread Galaxy Tiles Mapper


Mandalorian Counter-Intelligence Officer: I don't have a solid opinion yet because the stats seem incomplete/incorrect.





Fixed ,  Sorry about that. You know i just cut and paste from one site to the other, no one pointed out my error.


I like all so far, I still think Exar is a little over cost-ed but that's just me. I think that you would use him or Holosid not both, so for me it's giving a extra opion more that a complementary SA for holosid.

As for ORS mini well we do not know what else is in store for old republic so he's CE might be far more use full. I am expecting Nomi Sunrider Jedi Master myself and maybe she will have a +4 boost as a SA or CE if we get such a character, then again a +4 boost could be on any number of characters.
You're definitely right that we only know a fraction of the set so far, and there could very easily be a +4 CE out there for the Old Rep. I guess my issue with the ORS (which is relatively minor) is that I think he's priced a little high. If he ALSO gave a +4, he'd be just right!

As for Exar, the overlap with HoloSid is only part of the issue (and in such a small faction). I think he's needlessly complicated and fundamentally flawed in multiple ways. If someone posted this guy on the customs boards and asked for feedback, I bet he'd get an earful.

If I were a teacher:

Old Republic Senator: A-

Darth Bandon: B+

Exar Kun: A for concept, F for execution

Sith Acolyte: B- (switch the figure and he goes up to a B--heck, I'd rather see the Jedi Sentinel than the DS Acolyte)

Mando CIO: C
They still have to go through proofing. I am pretty certain some things will be cleaned up on Exar (Dark Aura's current wording is bugging the heck out of me). Honestly, I'm not seeing the overlap with Holo Sid. Kun will likely only have 1 Force point for the first part of the game. He is not going to be providing nearly as much Force Points as Holo Sid. It is another option, but Dark Spirit and Dark Aura are the main draws for him.
Hey guys, nice comments so far.

Just one thing to check on that might clarify something you mentioned with Exar.

Reread "Steal Force" and then try to apply it to a Force Spirit  There is a very important rule distinction that you are missing as to why we couldn't just reuse the old ability.  And since we couldn't use it, the designers decided to give the new ability a different range just for something different.

There is also a very important reason that Exar's Dark Aura is a force power and not a SA in terms of flavor and cannon.

As for the overlap concern, it's not, most people won't be playing both Palps and Exar, and we also wanted to have an option for those who think that Palps should never have been Sith to begin with anyway.  

We tried to give him a jack of many trades kind of feel, which is true to his history.  In most games you will find that some of his abilities are useful, and others are not.

And if you think he's a great battery, just think about a game against a squad without force users.  You will quickly learn that depending on that force for more than one person isn't going to get you anywhere.  The CE was just an addition to give him something to do to be even more annoying to force users, to represent what he did in cannon even better. 
Bill & SB, I think your comments have helped clarify for me why I think Exar fails. A 14-point piece SHOULDN'T be a jack of all trades. Look at what the Old Rep gets from the ORS for 2 points less, not compare it to all that is trying to be accomplished with Exar.

It's true that Exar is likely to be far less effective as a Force Battery than HoloSid, but that still doesn't excuse the problem. As SB points out, the other abilities are the draw--it would be a much cleaner piece (I think a superior piece) with a little more focus.

Honestly, I would even consider changing the Force Renewal aspect of Dark Force Spirit. Yes, it mirrors Force Spirit, but does it really have to?

The argument of staying true to canon only works to a point. Part of the challenge of the creative process of customs is striking the balance between serving canon and serving game mechanics (just look at the wide range of abilities for any character with multiple pieces). In this case, I think that trying to reflect canon has created a very flawed (perhaps broken?) piece... and that's a shame, because the core concept is excellent.

Having said all that, though, it's still certainly not the worst mini ever produced. Had I been given the opportunity, I'm sure I would've given WotC such harsh critiques on at least a few pieces in each set (and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one).

On another note: I don't know what your editorial process is, but if you need another editor/proofreader at some point, feel free to drop me a line--professional editor since 1992.
Bill & SB, I think your comments have helped clarify for me why I think Exar fails. A 14-point piece SHOULDN'T be a jack of all trades. Look at what the Old Rep gets from the ORS for 2 points less, not compare it to all that is trying to be accomplished with Exar.

It's true that Exar is likely to be far less effective as a Force Battery than HoloSid, but that still doesn't excuse the problem. As SB points out, the other abilities are the draw--it would be a much cleaner piece (I think a superior piece) with a little more focus.

Honestly, I would even consider changing the Force Renewal aspect of Dark Force Spirit. Yes, it mirrors Force Spirit, but does it really have to?

The argument of staying true to canon only works to a point. Part of the challenge of the creative process of customs is striking the balance between serving canon and serving game mechanics (just look at the wide range of abilities for any character with multiple pieces). In this case, I think that trying to reflect canon has created a very flawed (perhaps broken?) piece... and that's a shame, because the core concept is excellent.

Having said all that, though, it's still certainly not the worst mini ever produced.

On another note: I don't know what your editorial process is, but if you need another editor/proofreader at some point, feel free to drop me a line--professional editor since 1992.



Well other than the cost i thought Exar was a very well thought out mini. My favourite so far. I also think he will be very much used once member get the feel for him and the fact that he is pretty much useless against vong for the most part is how it should be. I guess we all differ on how we see him.


Reread "Steal Force" and then try to apply it to a Force Spirit  There is a very important rule distinction that you are missing as to why we couldn't just reuse the old ability.  And since we couldn't use it, the designers decided to give the new ability a different range just for something different.


I did and my solution:
Pretty much my thoughts exactly, esspecially on Drain Force - They could have just made a "Steal Force 2"  which changed the range from "touch" to Range 2.  Other things about him that I have issues with - The card says nothing about how he can be defeated (while it's the same as other FS characters I feel this is a huge oversight, it doesn't matter that they'll put out an FAQ/rules insert this is certainly vital information to have ON CARD)!  Steal force 2... er drain force is the only option to make his CE useable which just adds to the pointless-ness of the CE.


eliminates the adjacent issue which I'm sure is what you are referring to.  and it keeps inline with the WOTC model where a power that effectively does the same thing is just modified by a secondary Number.

My main issue with Exar is the exclusion of defeating information, and sincerely hope that this is remedied as it seems imcomplete/reckless to assume that the information is "obvious".  Cut corners elsewhere if you have to or reduce the font size by .5 - just get that info in there!
Custom Minis link fixed - Feel free to comment Trade Thread Galaxy Tiles Mapper

My main issue with Exar is the exclusion of defeating information, and sincerely hope that this is remedied as it seems imcomplete/reckless to assume that the information is "obvious".  Cut corners elsewhere if you have to or reduce the font size by .5 - just get that info in there!


It's going to be listed in the rules insert that Nickname and Sithborg will be writing.  It just doesn't fit on the card.  We've already done quite a bit of cutting corners on his card in terms of font size, and so on.

As for the cost of the mini, we know this one is aggressively costed.  But it kind of has to be.  The Sith who you might attach it too are already significantly overcosted in many cases.  The Sith faction as a whole is very over costed.  Making undercosted minis to account for some of that does help, ala Mara Jade and Kol Skywalker.  He's also a pretty tough piece to use correctly and plays differently than the Light Spirit's which are all things we wanted out of Exar.  As for whether he should or should not be a jack of "many" trades (notice I did not say all), well I just disagree with you Gwek.  I think the fairest assessment of him in terms of cannon is that he had a bunch of things he could do. 

Just some perspective of a rules look.

There is enough differences with Drain and Steal Force that having them be completely different is fine. As for Dark Aura, I'm pretty certain that there are certain interactions they want with it by being a Force Power (ie Vong). And other than the one line, it is fine.


It's going to be listed in the rules insert that Nickname and Sithborg will be writing.  It just doesn't fit on the card.  We've already done quite a bit of cutting corners on his card in terms of font size, and so on.



Well my opinion stands that lacking this information on the card, makes it feel unprofessional (this may not be a big concern since you're all doing this for free, but inorder to make a good thing better the appearance of professionalism goes a long way) and incomplete, or in internet terms epic fail (left as is, and not JUST because of the lack of defeat information).  that's my opinion and no amount of "it'll be in the 'rules insert'" will change the fact that I feel this is far more important information to have on the card than other stuff.

For one Dark Aura needs a rewrite (and it's missing the closing ")") and the font for "Dark Aura" and "Force 2" are larger than that of the abilities section and could therefore be reduced in size to free up additional space.  Very slight reduction in Font size can yield a great amount of space a reduction in 1/2 font size wouldn't make a lot of difference in legibility, but would free up a great amount of space - give it a try if you haven't and see for yourself.
Custom Minis link fixed - Feel free to comment Trade Thread Galaxy Tiles Mapper

It's going to be listed in the rules insert that Nickname and Sithborg will be writing.  It just doesn't fit on the card.  We've already done quite a bit of cutting corners on his card in terms of font size, and so on.



Well my opinion stands that lacking this information on the card, makes it feel unprofessional (this may not be a big concern since you're all doing this for free, but inorder to make a good thing better the appearance of professionalism goes a long way) and incomplete, or in internet terms epic fail (left as is, and not JUST because of the lack of defeat information).  that's my opinion and no amount of "it'll be in the 'rules insert'" will change the fact that I feel this is far more important information to have on the card than other stuff.

For one Dark Aura needs a rewrite (and it's missing the closing ")") and the font for "Dark Aura" and "Force 2" are larger than that of the abilities section and could therefore be reduced in size to free up additional space.  Very slight reduction in Font size can yield a great amount of space a reduction in 1/2 font size wouldn't make a lot of difference in legibility, but would free up a great amount of space - give it a try if you haven't and see for yourself.

Well, we will just agree to disagree on it.  I hardly see how taking off information that's been exactly the same on multiple cards amounts to a level of "unprofessional".  WotC did it multiple times, in exactly the same way, so that's what the designers decided (mainly with the help of a professional printer who is the primary card designer).  So to me, that's pretty insulting and I won't discuss it further.

As for typos and so forth, the cards have not been given the final editing, and yes we have professional editors who will be looking them over.  I'm also not sure if the version Dean posted was actually the latest version, or an earlier card.  It's really not that important for me to care though honestly, as I am confident that our editors will be up to the task in the end product. 
Meh. If space is an issue, I would rather have the "banishment" part omitted than the rest. I mean, Betrayal is miss a rather key line of text on the card as well.
Bill, you're certainly welcome not to discuss it further (and I don't necessarily expect to get a response to this comment), but I don't think LB is being insulting (and even if he is, I don't think it's his primary intention).

Perhaps it's a matter of phrasing. Although he said "unprofessional," I submit that what meant was "using different standands and guidelines than WotC."

Fact of the matter is, LB is completely correct that if you are holding yourself to the same standards as WotC, not including the "how to defeat" information is a bad call. WotC has 4 different pieces with Light Spirit, and they have included comparable information every time, because it is important, non-intuitive information.

As for "taking off information that's been exactly the same on multiple cards": That doesn't actually apply here, because this is the first time this ability has been used EVER. If you're using the same standards as WotC, it should, at minimum, have the same information that the comparable special ability (Light Spirit) had the first time it was defined. Since Light Spirit is a very rare ability, it doesn't seem prudent to assume that players know how it works without the definition.

You'll note that I've used the phrase "same standards as WotC" more than once. If you're intentions is to mirror the guidelines that WotC used as closely as possible, then Exar is, as LB says, "epic fail," just as surely as if you gave him 250 HP, or significantly changed the size of the cards, or allowed him to do 15 damage, or chose to give him Cunning +10 without defining it ("because people should know what it does by now").

(I am not passing judgement here, but defending LB's point of view: To this point in time, if a customizer did any of the above things, his custom piece would likely have been described as "unprofessional" or "amateur" because it "cheated" away from the "professional" template provided by WotC.)

If you guys are intentionally NOT mirroring the guidelines and standards of WotC, then the phrasing of DF Spirit (or, indeed, any special ability) is not as important, but it is important to be remember that you will, in the long run, be creating pieces that are not consistent with the power level and complexity of those created by WotC to date (just as surely--if not as blatantly--as if you has a character with a defense of 32 or decided to no longer define Stealth and Twin Attack "because they're been around long enough").

Minor as it may seem, this is a HUGE decision, because it influences set design for the foreseeable future (and, incidentally, likely de-values a some WotC pieces in the long ran).

If this has been done intentionally, so be it. If this decision has not been made consciously and with much deliberation, however, I implore you to be aware of the ramifications rather than dismissive of someone trying to point it out to you.
Well what's important to one member is not important to another (like me) As light Spirit has been around for some time i do not think it that important that every detail has to be on the card.

"Perhaps it's a matter of phrasing. Although he said "unprofessional," I submit that what meant was "using different standands and guidelines than WotC."

Well that's funny no disrespect, They are as WOTC missed a lot of many cards, OK light spirit was not one of them but would have been if such a character came out where all the info would not fit on the card. Prooff/  just look at past cards, many later cards came out with the same SA but not everything was listed.

Sometimes compromising has to be done, OK you might have made a different one, well hell 10 other members might have made 10 different compromise's.

Not everyone is going to be happy. They are the ones doing the cards so it's there choice. Just because you made a suggestion does not mean they have to go with it. If 10 member make 10 different suggestions can't go do them all can they?

Point on the other threads ( Bloo Milk and SWGamers)  with Exar card, some are saying well Anikin FS should have been used instead of the original Exar as the recommended mini for the DFS of Exar, Well others have said it should have been something new all together. can't do both so i think they were right to stick to there guns and say they are happy with the card how it is. I think the same apples here as well.

It is totally impossable to change every little thing because a few do not like it, the cards would never be done if that was the case because you cannot please everyone, and i find it differcult to understand why you cannot see that.

Well done to SWMgamers gang and everybody who involve in designing and completing V set .... really like what I have seen so far. But as usual I can't help my self from transfering it to my Card template .... just for fun ... since its a V -set ... it should coincide with celebration V

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  • Well what's important to one member is not important to another (like me) As light Spirit has been around for some time i do not think it that important that every detail has to be on the card.


    What I'm referring to ultimately has nothing to do with what's important to an individual. It has to do with the current standard styling of existing cards.

    The crew at SWMGamers is entitled to do what they want. If they don't match the existing guidelines and standards and established by WotC, their product will not necessarily be better or worse than WotC's, but will, by definition, be DIFFERENT.

    "Perhaps it's a matter of phrasing. Although he said "unprofessional," I submit that what meant was "using different standands and guidelines than WotC."

    Well that's funny no disrespect, They are as WOTC missed a lot of many cards, OK light spirit was not one of them but would have been if such a character came out where all the info would not fit on the card. Prooff/  just look at past cards, many later cards came out with the same SA but not everything was listed.



    Again, WotC has a certain guideline (I will refrain from using "standard", because it potentially implies that WotC had "higher standards" than SWMGamers, and that is not my intention). This has nothing to do with typos (which WotC has many of), but to do with level of content.

    Although WotC DID periodically change the phasing on their cards, I don't recall them every dropping significant amounts of content. They streamlined phrasing. If there is an example where they dropped content (intentionally, as opposed to a typo), I'd be interested in seeing it.

    The closest example that I can think of is Shaak Ti, Jedi Master, on which they failed to abbreviated Stealth. Since this is one of 98 cards on which Stealth appears, it seems pretty clear that it was an exception or oversight.

    Sometimes compromising has to be done, OK you might have made a different one, well hell 10 other members might have made 10 different compromise's.

    Not everyone is going to be happy. They are the ones doing the cards so it's there choice. Just because you made a suggestion does not mean they have to go with it. If 10 member make 10 different suggestions can't go do them all can they?



    As I've said multiple times in this thread, I'm a "purist" and a "traditionalist" in my approach. If I can't create a custom using the established WotC guidelines, I consider that particular custom to be a failure.

    There is no compromise, no discussion of compromise. If the only way to get the abilities to "fit on the card" is to (for example) not define Stealth and Twin Attack, then clearly the character has too much going on.

    Point on the other threads ( Bloo Milk and SWGamers)  with Exar card, some are saying well Anikin FS should have been used instead of the original Exar as the recommended mini for the DFS of Exar, Well others have said it should have been something new all together. can't do both so i think they were right to stick to there guns and say they are happy with the card how it is. I think the same apples here as well.



    With all due respect, the two issues have nothing to do with each other. Preference of mini is an opinon. What I'm talking about is based on fact.

    It is totally impossable to change every little thing because a few do not like it, the cards would never be done if that was the case because you cannot please everyone, and i find it differcult to understand why you cannot see that.



    I may not be making my point clearly enough, so I'll try to reduce it to the pure facts. What I'm talking about with respect to the definition of DF Spirit has nothing to do with my personal preference or with keeping anyone "happy."

    FACT: WotC produced approximately 900+ cards for approximately 800 distinct characters.

    FACT: In spite of typos and a few notable exceptions (and a potential design shift when changing from 60-piece sets to 40-piece sets), WotC had a clearly established "style" they used for their cards. Part of that style (in addition to more obvious things, such as Hit Points and Damage occurring in interations of 10) including a certain level of content for each special ability or Force power. This content remained consistent through 900+ cards.

    FACT: The content of the Exar Kun card does not match WotC's established style.

    FACT: Changing the style (including level of content included in definitions) may produce minis that are not comparable to the minis produced by WotC.

    In other words, if you don't use the same rules, you will wind up with a different result.




    "FACT: Changing the style (including level of content included in definitions) may produce minis that are not comparable to the minis produced by WotC."

    Wrong WOTC was never that constant when writing definition on cards, as many later sets did not have all the info that older cards had for the exact same SA. Ther so called Stile was not as established as you are trying to make out.

    But really I cannot be bothered to carry this pointless debate on as it really does not matter to anyone except you it seems.  EDIT & Motti LOL.

    All that will happen is that this thread will end up like the one over at bloo milk.

    You have  had your say, I have mine we will just have to agree to differ as neither one of us as any say over the cards.

    If you still have a prob over this then PM one of the desongers as even though they still visit this site it's not as often as they visit the other ones.


    EDIT, Still think this is a load of old BS, but GWEK if it that big a deal for you how about starting a Vsets What's what thread here as well like i have over at bloo milk. Or just move it over to bloo milk full stop, as you have posted over ther anyway. You will get more replies there .

    If you guys are intentionally NOT mirroring the guidelines and standards of WotC, then the phrasing of DF Spirit (or, indeed, any special ability) is not as important, but it is important to be remember that you will, in the long run, be creating pieces that are not consistent with the power level and complexity of those created by WotC to date (just as surely--if not as blatantly--as if you has a character with a defense of 32 or decided to no longer define Stealth and Twin Attack "because they're been around long enough").

    Minor as it may seem, this is a HUGE decision, because it influences set design for the foreseeable future (and, incidentally, likely de-values a some WotC pieces in the long ran).

    If this has been done intentionally, so be it. If this decision has not been made consciously and with much deliberation, however, I implore you to be aware of the ramifications rather than dismissive of someone trying to point it out to you.



    An excellent point worthy of consideration IMO.

    Do you want to help advance the game when Wizards pulls the plug? Go Here: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75862/22337613/Minis_YOU_want_to_see:_The_first_step - - -
    "FACT: Changing the style (including level of content included in definitions) may produce minis that are not comparable to the minis produced by WotC."

    Wrong WOTC was never that constant when writing definition on cards, as many later sets did not have all the info that older cards had for the exact same SA. Ther so called Stile was not as established as you are trying to make out.



    Please cite examples. As I've said, WotC has periodically streamlined definitions, but I don't think they made a habit of changing the level fo content.

    But really I cannot be bothered to carry this pointless debate on as it really does not matter to anyone except you it seems.  EDIT & Motti LOL.



    Then by all means, DT, DON'T be involved in the debate. It's not an important issue to you, so why bother discussing it?

    It is, however, a point of interest to me and to at least one another board member (and also seemed to be related to something of interesting to a third member).

    Frankly, if you know your board history, if Admiral Motti and I actually agree on something, there may be merit to it!

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