Lightsaber Form Powers & Kinetic Combat?

   I have the good fortune to be playing an Ithorian Force wizard and have a few questions regarding later Force power selections. If you guys could offer me opinions, I would be quite grateful.


If I am in control of a Lightsaber via the Kinetic Combat Force power-
Can I use Lightsaber Form Powers that require me to be wielding two lightsbers… counting the Lightsaber in Kinetic Combat as my second wielded Lightsaber?

    Because I would like to select a Rising Whirlwind Force power available to pick up some bonus HP (for my frail Ithorian).
   I don’t recall ever having read anything here on the boards about actually using Form Powers on a Kinetic Combat wielded lightsaber….so I am exceedingly interested to hear opinions. Of course I am still subject to the will of our GM.

Thank you in advance, fellow community members.

I would say "no".  When you are using kinetic combat you aren't weilding the lightsaber.  You need to have, at least, 2 lightsabers in your hands for rising whirlwind to be used.  Kinetic combat won't let you enhance the lightsaber's use through a feat or talent (which I think would include force powers since they are derived from a feat).  The underlined part is taken from the actual power so it shouldn't work.  So I think kinetic combat answers the question for you.
I'm also in the NO camp for the same reasons Leo mentioned.
Here's a question:   Kinetic combat says the floating sabers threaten squares around them. Is threatening a square the same as having reach to that square? I ask because some LS form powers require simply that you target "one enemy within your reach". That definition will be helpful to my ruling on the matter(yes, I'm the tyranical, unreasoning GM in question). :p

Kinetic combat won't let you enhance the lightsaber's use through a feat or talent (which I think would include force powers since they are derived from a feat).  The underlined part is taken from the actual power so it shouldn't work.  So I think kinetic combat answers the question for you.

In terms of the no enhancement by feats or talents, I'm not sure that holds up(feel free to counter my reasoning). I can see why Mighty Swing wouldn't work because its oomph is clearly a feat of raw strength; LS form powers, however, are products of force power, making the physical characteristics of the one evoking the ability less important than with Mighty Swing, Rapid Strike, etc.

The wording of Kinetic Combat does not specifically disallow force power augmentation. Battlestrike, for example, affects your next attack and damage roll with no restrictions on what sort of attack rolls qualify.

Since Battle Strike existed in the SECR, long before Kinetic Combat was written, you would think the writers would have specifically excluded Force Powers from affecting the weapon if they did not intend such a combo to be allowable. If Battle Strike can work, then perhaps some LS form powers can work too.

[EDIT: Props to StevenO for his ninja strike!]
It isn't like that "ninja strike" added much to the conversation besides agreeing with Leo.

When asking if the areas threatened by your Kinetic Combat weilding lightsaber count as being "in reach" I again need to say no.  We should remember the KC already gets a nice "kick in the rear" by allowing the CHA modifier to be used for both attack and damage which sets it apart from the way almost1 all other weapons are wielded.  Now as a GM I may allow some things to be used by a KC wielded lightsaber but for the most part I think KC already has enough things going for it that those may be few and far between.

1  Almost because of the Noble's Fencing style which is actually harder to get than KC and still doesn't do anything to the weapon's damage output.
It isn't like that "ninja strike" added much to the conversation besides agreeing with Leo.

When asking if the areas threatened by your Kinetic Combat weilding lightsaber count as being "in reach" I again need to say no.  We should remember the KC already gets a nice "kick in the rear" by allowing the CHA modifier to be used for both attack and damage which sets it apart from the way almost1 all other weapons are wielded.  Now as a GM I may allow some things to be used by a KC wielded lightsaber but for the most part I think KC already has enough things going for it that those may be few and far between.

1  Almost because of the Noble's Fencing style which is actually harder to get than KC and still doesn't do anything to the weapon's damage output.

Good points. I will think on your words of wisdom.

If I do end up allowing it, I don't think it will hurt balance too badly because I'll be equally lenient with the other players.
The wording of Kinetic Combat does not specifically disallow force power augmentation. Battlestrike, for example, affects your next attack and damage roll with no restrictions on what sort of attack rolls qualify.


Let me see if I can break down my reasoning to you a little better.  I believe we agree that you can't use feats and talents to "enhance the lightsaber's use".  So you wouldn't allow rapid strike or mighty swing (if you don't agree with this statement then we have no point in common to work from).  Now for my chain of logic. 
1) Lightsaber powers are a subset of force powers,
2) You gain force powers through the feat Force Training,
3) Force Training is a feat, ergo, you can not use it to enhance your lightsaber that is being weilded via Kinetic Combat.
This, in my opinion, is why the writers didn't directly state that you couldn't use force powers since they come from a feat and feats are already banned from use by rule as written.
BTW your original question was "Can I count a lightsaber I'm weilding with Kinetic Combat as weilding for the purpose  of Rising Whirlwind".  Do you agree that the answer is no, it does not?

   I have the good fortune to be playing an Ithorian Force wizard and have a few questions regarding later Force power selections. If you guys could offer me opinions, I would be quite grateful.


If I am in control of a Lightsaber via the Kinetic Combat Force power-
Can I use Lightsaber Form Powers that require me to be wielding two lightsbers… counting the Lightsaber in Kinetic Combat as my second wielded Lightsaber?

    Because I would like to select a Rising Whirlwind Force power available to pick up some bonus HP (for my frail Ithorian).
   I don’t recall ever having read anything here on the boards about actually using Form Powers on a Kinetic Combat wielded lightsaber….so I am exceedingly interested to hear opinions. Of course I am still subject to the will of our GM.

Thank you in advance, fellow community members.


Using Rising Whirlwind to gain bonus hp is not a sure thing, since you have to (1) Hit the UtF DC, (2) Hit two seperate targets with 2 seperate lightsaber attacks. If you miss once, no hp for you! That could get annoying.

If you need some quick HP, I'd suggest using Negate Energy with a FP. You can also stab yourself with the lightsaber and use Negate Energy + FP.

There's also a cool Force Talent called Force Recovery, Whenever you use your second wind, you regain a number of additional hit points equal to 1d6 per Force Point you possess (to a maximum of 10d6). You need Equilibruim though.

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BTW your original question was "Can I count a lightsaber I'm weilding with Kinetic Combat as weilding for the purpose of Rising Whirlwind".  Do you agree that the answer is no, it does not?

I wasn't the OP actually. However, I do agree that RW wouldn't work but for different reasons.

I was asking whether powers like Battle Strike or dark rage would affect attacks with a kinetically weilded blade.

3) Force Training is a feat, ergo, you can not use it to enhance your lightsaber that is being weilded via Kinetic Combat.

This, in my opinion, is why the writers didn't directly state that you couldn't use force powers since they come from a feat and feats are already banned from use by rule as written.

I disagree. Force Training adds powers to your suite, but it is not what allows you to activate powers from your suite.

Activate Force Power
is a trained-only application of the Use the Force skill. It is, therefore, the skill itself that allows you to use force powers. That is why each force power activation is accompanied by a Use the Force Skill Check.

Kinetic combat does not prohibit a player's skills from affecting the kinetically weilded sabers, only feats and talents are off limits.
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Switching to another line of thought:
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My question, on a different vein, was whether or not the threatened squares around the kinetic saber are considered 'in your reach'.

If yes, then powers like tempered agression that target one enemy in your reach should be able to apply to a kinetically weilded saber.

If not, then the saber powers themselves prohibit the combo, but Battle Strike and Dark Rage(which pose no such restrictions) should still work.





    Not that am arguing with Leo or Steveno (you guys are always on point), and you make good points now too.

    I think the power’s description is somewhat muddled. If I can’t use any feat, then I can’t use proficiencies either (that’s a feat that gives you a +4… or we’ve all been playing it wrong). Kinda changes things?


   Kinetic Combat ~ as mentioned ~ says (paraphrased =>) the Lightsaber is considered held by you even though it is floating g in a nearby square ... When you are wielding a Kinetic Combat Lightsaber- you threaten squares adjacent to it, and it’s considered held by you. That’s the part that seems important without breaking things. 


   Good points RichtrBelmont10, Rising Whirlwind would be a gambit to expect to work reliably. Using the above situation –Twin strike (I think, with the picture of the gand double whackin a droid) would have been a better example.


 I do plan on putting my Negate Energy to good use. Later I would like to pick up Enlighten and Inspire (for the FP special that grants friendlies +2d6 bonus HP). My favorite wizard build is shaping up quite nicely- a few levels and its Skilled Advisor (eventually Master Advisor) and I can share the wealth even further


It’s been a crazy day, I will sleep on it and thank all who were kind enough top reply for tonight

as a GM i'd probably allow it because:

1. at least at first glance, it doesn't appear to be imbalancing and
2. it's creative and therefore
3. has a cool, signature look for the player

of course, the problem with ruling okay on something like this is if you have players who would then take this as a premise to abuse other combinations.  in which case you'd obviously have to not allow the abuses adn then might have to put up with some whining (even after explaining that you didn't allow the KC/RW whirlwind combo based on it being allowable by the rules, and they should feel free to come up with a signature look for their own player even if it stretches mechanics just a tinch)


anyways, that isn't a cold hard math perspective so i don't know if it's useful to you.  i think it would look cool and therefore i'd allow it under GM statute #1 that says we can allow anything we want
You're additions are helpful. I try to focus on gameplay flavor while, at the same time not making the players feel like they've plugged in a game genie(wow that takes me back) and can do whatever they want.

It's a hard balance to keep, so all perspectives are helpful to me. Plus, when I argue something and I am met by answers potent enough to change my mind, I end up with a better grasp of the game(RAW, RAI, and beyond) as a result.
Activate Force Power is a trained-only application of the Use the Force skill. It is, therefore, the skill itself that allows you to use force powers. That is why each force power activation is accompanied by a Use the Force Skill Check.

Kinetic combat does not prohibit a player's skills from affecting the kinetically weilded sabers, only feats and talents are off limits.


That's going to open up a whole can of worms.  What happens when someone wants to use Shien Deflect with the lightsaber?  Are you going to allow someone with Improved Kinetic Combat who is weilding 3 lightsabers to effectively put up a wall around him?  Normally you wouldn't be able to use Deflect, since it's a talent, but your going to have to allow the lightsaber power to work.  Same with a lot of other powers.  I can see a lot of other problems arising by allowing this to happen but I'm pressed for time so I'll leave it with that one example.
That's going to open up a whole can of worms.  What happens when someone wants to use Shien Deflect with the lightsaber?  Are you going to allow someone with Improved Kinetic Combat who is weilding 3 lightsabers to effectively put up a wall around him?  Normally you wouldn't be able to use Deflect, since it's a talent, but your going to have to allow the lightsaber power to work.  Same with a lot of other powers.  I can see a lot of other problems arising by allowing this to happen but I'm pressed for time so I'll leave it with that one example.


To be fair I think that's a bit of a stretch to make, I don't think that it would be any more powerful than any other saber form application. I mean it's not going to be the deflect talent, which has no cost, it's a force power like any other that will be removed from your force pool. And short of rolling a 20 and refreshing your force pool, that's going to cost a force point to take back... And again most of the saber form powers have some variety of restriction of use so I fail to see the big deal.
I don't think Kinetic Combat should work with Lightsaber Form Powers. Here's why. In the text of Kinetic Combat, it states:

"Talents and feats that would normally enhance a weapon's use do not do so while you are using kinetic combat to wield the weapon (for example, you cannot use Mighty Swing or Power Attack while wielding the weapon)"

As of the writing of this power (KOTOR and TFU), Lightsaber Form Powers did not exist yet (they would be released in the JATM later). That's why Lightsaber Form Powers are not mentioned in the text of Kinetic Combat. I feel the the principle of "no enhancements" to Kinetic Combat should apply to Lightsaber Form Powers also.

If you can't use Deflect with Kinetic Combat, why should you be able to use Shien Deflection (as Leo mentioned)?

In addition, some have mentioned flavor. Well, the flavor text of Rising Whirlwind says:

"You swing your lightsabers around your body, creating a brilliant whirlwind of deadly light."

Note the phrase "lightsabers" plural, and a whirlwind. I would not allow this power to be used with Kinetic Combat. The logic is, you won't be able to create the "Whirlwind" with just one lightsaber (and the other one far away from you). That's why the power specifically requires you to be wielding two lightsabers.

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I don't think Kinetic Combat should work with Lightsaber Form Powers. Here's why. In the text of Kinetic Combat, it states:

"Talents and feats that would normally enhance a weapon's use do not do so while you are using kinetic combat to wield the weapon (for example, you cannot use Mighty Swing or Power Attack while wielding the weapon)"

As of the writing of this power (KOTOR and TFU), Lightsaber Form Powers did not exist yet (they would be released in the JATM later). That's why Lightsaber Form Powers are not mentioned in the text of Kinetic Combat. I feel the the principle of "no enhancements" to Kinetic Combat should apply to Lightsaber Form Powers also.



The above text doesn't prevent Battle Strike from being used with a KC Lightsaber. The fact that the power stresses that it counts as being held by you without specifying "for the purpose of" (such as a) being unattended, b) disarming, c) attacking an object etc.) means that it counts as being held by you for all purposes.

Furthermore, Attacks of Opportunity made by a floating lightsaber count as though they were made by you, which automatically qualifies Contentious Opportunity as applicable to a Kinetic Combat wielded Lightsaber.

HOWEVER...The list of Lightsaber Form Powers that can be used with Kinetic Combat is a short one, or at least limited to certain situations...

With strict interpretation, Here's how I would rule each one:



Assured Strike: Requires that the target be within your (not your lightsaber's) reach. Supposing the target is adjacent to you and your lightsaber is adjacent to him, all criteria would be met and this would be alloweable.

Barrier of Blades: No. The target is You and the effect replaces your Reflex Defense. Kinetic Combat has no effect on this power. 

Circle of Shelter: Targets are You and all allies Adjacent to you. So no.

Contentious Opportunity: This power is an added effect to an Attack of Opportunity. As all AoO's count as though you made them, this is perfectly acceptable. 

Deflecting Slash: Targets are You and an enemy within Your reach. Floaty Lightsaber has no interaction here.

Disarming Slash: Target has to be within reach again, Floaty lightsaber has no effect. 

Draw Closer: This one's interesting since you're not a target. You're pulling him towards yourself, a floaty lightsaber could then theoretically be used to attack him at that point, but the lightsaber would have to be adjacent to him. It does create a cool scene of you pulling a guy through a telekinetically swinging lightsaber. I would allow this provided the lightsaber was adjacent to the target when he arrives adjecent to you (not before). 

Falling Avalanche, Fluid Riposte, Hawk-Bat Swoop: All target You and an enemy within "Your" reach (not your lightsaber's). Kinetic Combat Lightsabers don't really apply. 

High Ground Defense: This would be awesome if not for the "Target: You" part. Have a lightsaber floating in some difficult terrain and have it make AoOs against anyone who passes by...Sadly, it doesn't work that way..

Makashi Riposte: It's a Reaction that happens when someone makes a melee attack against You, and You are a target. As with Fluid Riposte, the Floaty 'saber is N.A. 

Pass the Blade: You and a target within Your reach once again.

Pushing Slash: Much like Draw Closer, as long as the enemy is adjacent to you, you make a melee attack with a float-a-saber and push away. I see nothing wrong with this as you are not a target of the power.

Rising Whirlwind: "You must be wielding two Lightsabers to use this power." Even if you could use Kinetic Combat sabers with it, it's pointless...

Saber Swarm: Interestingly enough, this one works, as You are not a target. The enemy still must be within Your reach, but yeah, a floaty saber can be used with Saber Swarm against someone within your reach. 

Sarlacc Sweep: Both targets have to be within your reach, but other than that this would be allowable.

Shien Deflection: Doesn't work. You are a target and it's a reaction to a ranged attack targeting you...

Swift Flank: Again, you're a target, not your lightsaber.

Tempered Aggression: Enemy has to be within Your reach. 

Twin Strike: See Rising Whirlwind.

Unbalancing Block: "Target: You", and it's a reaction to a melee attack against you..

Unhindered Charge: "Target You..." doesn't work. 

Vornskyr's Ferocity: Target has to be within your reach. Otherwise, fine.


So, unless someone makes a ruling that "Your reach" also applies to your lightsaber, only Contentious Opportunity works perfectly as written...If someone does make that ruling, Assured Strike, Saber Swarm, Sarlacc Sweep, Tempered Aggression and Vornskyr's Ferocity all become eligible. 


However, any Lightsaber Power where the Target section includes "You", it doesn't apply to your lightsaber floating nearby...

     

 

Very nice cat except for one little thing.  All the lightsaber form powers require you to be weilding an active lightsaber (JATM p29 1st paragraph last sentence).  Since you are not weilding a lightsaber when you are using Kinetic Combat they can't be used on it.  The lightsaber is considered to be "as if you are weilding it" but the reverse is not true.  If the reverse were true then only creatures with more than 2 arms could use Improved Kinetic Combat since you would have to be considered to be weilding 3 lightsabers plus the possibility of 2 more actually in your hands.

Yes, "You must be wielding an activated lightsaber when you use any power with the [Lightsaber Form] descriptor."

You can wield a ligthsaber in hand while using Kinetic Combat can you not..? Cool

Just becaues you are using Kinetic Combat that does NOT exclude you from wielding another lightsaber in-hand.  If you "normally" wield a lightsaber in each hand you could "let one fly" using Kinetic Combat while maintaining the other one to use for things like Block/Deflect which require YOU to be holding an active lightsaber.
At one time I was working on a character concept of a Codru-Ji Jedi that used 7 Lightsabers at once... :D

The above text doesn't prevent Battle Strike from being used with a KC Lightsaber.


You can use Battle Strike with Kinetic Combat?

At one time I was working on a character concept of a Codru-Ji Jedi that used 7 Lightsabers at once... :D


What would be the advantage of holding 4 lightsabers at once? Maybe having a different crystal in each one and gaining it's benefit? But your lightsaber doesn't need to be activated to gain the crystal's benefit, does it? If my lightsaber with Kasha Crystal is not ignited, do I not still get +2 Force bonus to Will?

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The above text doesn't prevent Battle Strike from being used with a KC Lightsaber.


You can use Battle Strike with Kinetic Combat?



Certainly.
 
Kinetic Combat: You can telekinetically move an melee weapon you hold up to 12 squares away and make an attack with it.

Battle Strike: DC 15: Gain a +1 bonus on your next attack roll and deal an additional +1D6 damage if the attack hits.

At one time I was working on a character concept of a Codru-Ji Jedi that used 7 Lightsabers at once... :D


What would be the advantage of holding 4 lightsabers at once? Maybe having a different crystal in each one and gaining it's benefit? But your lightsaber doesn't need to be activated to gain the crystal's benefit, does it? If my lightsaber with Kasha Crystal is not ignited, do I not still get +2 Force bonus to Will?



The special Crystal bonuses (in JATM at least) replace the +1 to hit bonus you get when you attune a lightsaber and are only available while you wield the lightsaber. The Pontite crystal for example, gives a benefit to Persuasion rolls, but only applies when your lightsaber is ignited...

However, it also describes the bonus/es as "untyped". Untyped seems to suggest stackable...

Edit: Removed the example based on interpretation made invalid by Leo's post...
You may want to check the crystals again.  Most of them give a force bonus to whatever and are therefore not stackable.
You may want to check the crystals again.  Most of them give a force bonus to whatever and are therefore not stackable.



Ah yes, you're right...

Still, 4 lightsabers give the Jenraux bonus, the Solari bonus, plus two regular for the +1 to hit (for those full atacks)...

That aside, what else is a Codru-Ji Jedi going to use 4 arms for..? Wielding Four lightsabers is awesome.. :P 

Truthfully though, it was Call Weapon that sparked the idea...Drawing 4 lightsabers at once is pretty badass...However, I'd still have to take Quick Draw, otherwise it takes 4 turns to put them all away... :P
i made a codru-ji gunfighter that wielded 4 pistols.  on 2 pistols he had the superior tech +2 to hit upgrade, on 2 he had the +5 damage upgrade.  was useful for him to be able to choose which gun to fire.

also on that character, ruled that he could be reloading 2 of the guns while firing the other 2.  was a neat gunfighter with a cool story...he's dead now (was an NPC)
Again, I would like to thank everybody for their input. It seems I have a few options at my disposal and will have to make some tough calls when I get my next Force Training at level 6. Tough as in... where to reallocate my next batch of awesome!
The special Crystal bonuses (in JATM at least) replace the +1 to hit bonus you get when you attune a lightsaber and are only available while you wield the lightsaber. The Pontite crystal for example, gives a benefit to Persuasion rolls, but only applies when your lightsaber is ignited...


Please show me where it says you get the bonus from your attuned lightsaber only if the lightsaber is ignited.

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The special Crystal bonuses (in JATM at least) replace the +1 to hit bonus you get when you attune a lightsaber and are only available while you wield the lightsaber. The Pontite crystal for example, gives a benefit to Persuasion rolls, but only applies when your lightsaber is ignited...


Please show me where it says you get the bonus from your attuned lightsaber only if the lightsaber is ignited.



Okay, I suppose if you wield it unignited as an improvised weapon, or throw it unignited at someone you would get the +1 bonus to attack rolls with your attuned lightsaber. Undecided

However, if you want your special lightsaber crystal powers, even by that interpretation you have to have your lightsaber drawn in order to qualify as wielding it, blade or no blade.

To be safe I think it best to ask your GM if having an unignited lightsaber in your hand counts as 'wielding' it, or merely holding it as that's a pretty important distinction...Might get some odd looks when you suggest that clubbing a droid with your unignited Firkraan crystal lightsaber deals ion damage instead of normal damage... Undecided
It's going to come down to how your GM defines "weilding".  Most of the crystals only take effect while "weilding the lightsaber" so that's what would need to be clarified.
The above text doesn't prevent Battle Strike from being used with a KC Lightsaber. The fact that the power stresses that it counts as being held by you without specifying "for the purpose of" (such as a) being unattended, b) disarming, c) attacking an object etc.) means that it counts as being held by you for all purposes. Furthermore, Attacks of Opportunity made by a floating lightsaber count as though they were made by you, which automatically qualifies Contentious Opportunity as applicable to a Kinetic Combat wielded Lightsaber.



This was the point I was trying to make, just much more skillfully articulated. I agree that most LS form powers won't work with Kinetic combat; however, that does not mean that no force powers will work as has been stated previously(battle strike/dark rage work).

Whether I will allow things like 'tempered agression' that targets 'one enemy within your reach' depends on the definition of reach. KC lets you attack all squares adjacent to it as well as being able to perform AoOs. Such actions normally require any enemy be within your reach, which seems to suggest that enemies within threatened squares of your KC blade are within your reach.

So, are the squares adjacent to a KC controlled saber within the players reach, or is there a differentiation between squares you threaten and squares you have reach to?
It's going to come down to how your GM defines "weilding".  Most of the crystals only take effect while "weilding the lightsaber" so that's what would need to be clarified.


If anyone's looking for that quote; The Creator Bonuses sidebar on JATM pg. 54 (last line): 

"A lightsaber crystal's description tells you what the bonus is for wielding an attuned lightsaber with a particular crystal". 
It's going to come down to how your GM defines "weilding".  Most of the crystals only take effect while "weilding the lightsaber" so that's what would need to be clarified.


If anyone's looking for that quote; The Creator Bonuses sidebar on JATM pg. 54 (last line): 

"A lightsaber crystal's description tells you what the bonus is for wielding an attuned lightsaber with a particular crystal". 

Right. Nowhere does it mention the lightsaber needs to be ignited to gain the benefits.

So the next question is, does "wielding" the lightsaber mean it must be in your hand, or can it simply be on your person?

For example, a lightsaber with Kasha crystal grants +2 Force bonus to Will to the "wielder," that is, the Jedi who attuned the lightsaber to himself. Does the lightsaber need to be in the Jedi's hand to gain this bonus? Or can the lightsaber be on his person? We know it doesn't need to be ignited since there's no mention of that anywhere. So what's the difference between an unlit lightsaber in your hand and an unlit lightsaber on your belt? Why would you get the +2 bonus for an unlit lightsaber in your hand, but not an unlit lightsaber on your belt? Do you need physical contact with your lightsaber? What if you're wearing gloves?

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Check out the box on p.54 of the JATM.  "If a character who is not attuned to the weapon weilds it, the weapon still does normal damage and otherwise functions as normal; that person does not receive the benefits of the special crystal."
The implication is that the person must be using the lightsaber (having it ignited) to gain the benefit of the special crystal.  This issue came up in the JATM preview thread part 2 as well.  People were wondering if you had to have your lightsaber out and ignited to gain the benefit of the Pontite Crystal.
It's going to come down to how your GM defines "weilding".  Most of the crystals only take effect while "weilding the lightsaber" so that's what would need to be clarified.


If anyone's looking for that quote; The Creator Bonuses sidebar on JATM pg. 54 (last line): 

"A lightsaber crystal's description tells you what the bonus is for wielding an attuned lightsaber with a particular crystal". 

Right. Nowhere does it mention the lightsaber needs to be ignited to gain the benefits.

So the next question is, does "wielding" the lightsaber mean it must be in your hand, or can it simply be on your person?

For example, a lightsaber with Kasha crystal grants +2 Force bonus to Will to the "wielder," that is, the Jedi who attuned the lightsaber to himself. Does the lightsaber need to be in the Jedi's hand to gain this bonus? Or can the lightsaber be on his person? We know it doesn't need to be ignited since there's no mention of that anywhere. So what's the difference between an unlit lightsaber in your hand and an unlit lightsaber on your belt? Why would you get the +2 bonus for an unlit lightsaber in your hand, but not an unlit lightsaber on your belt? Do you need physical contact with your lightsaber? What if you're wearing gloves?



If you're not wielding a weapon, you're holding it. You don't wield a flashlight except as an improvised weapon. Therefore, if you have an unlit lightsaber in your hand, you're either holding it (no bonus) or you're wielding it as an improvised weapon. It's a subtle, barely relevent difference. Whether you're wielding it lit or unlit, it has to be in hand.
I agree with Splattercat. If weilding included any weapon in your posession, you could fill a backpack with lightsabers each made with a different stone and simultaneaous have +1 Atk, +2 to block rolls, +2 to deflection rolls, fire damage, etc, etc. In fact, since the lightsaber's +1 ATK bonus is untyped, you could have an ATK bonus equal to the number of lightsabers you could possibly contain on your person.

I have a question though. Say you're weilding two sabers, one that grants +1 ATK and another that does not. During a full-round action to attack with both sabers, does the +1 ATK apply to both attacks or just the one with the +1 ATK crystal?

What if you're weilding 2 +1 ATK sabers? Is that +2 atk to both attacks, or +1 to each? Could you then use Kinetic Combat to float more sabers to further increase the +1 bonus?



I agree with Splattercat. If weilding included any weapon in your posession, you could fill a backpack with lightsabers each made with a different stone and simultaneaous have +1 Atk, +2 to block rolls, +2 to deflection rolls, fire damage, etc, etc. In fact, since the lightsaber's +1 ATK bonus is untyped, you could have an ATK bonus equal to the number of lightsabers you could possibly contain on your person.

I have a question though. Say you're weilding two sabers, one that grants +1 ATK and another that does not. During a full-round action to attack with both sabers, does the +1 ATK apply to both attacks or just the one with the +1 ATK crystal?

What if you're weilding 2 +1 ATK sabers? Is that +2 atk to both attacks, or +1 to each? Could you then use Kinetic Combat to float more sabers to further increase the +1 bonus?





The +1 attack bonus is NOT untyped.  It is a force bonus.
Now you know. And knowing is half the battle.
Check the box on page 54 of JATM the +1 to hit only applies to that weapon.
 
The +1 attack bonus is NOT untyped.  It is a force bonus.


Pg. 40 SECR: You gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls made with your scratch built lightsaber.

Pg. 54 JATM: The standard benefit for creating a lightsaber with Adegan, Ilum and Synthetic crystals is a +1 untyped bonus to hit with that weapon.

The bonus stacks with a possible Force Bonus, but two bonuses don't stack together because a lightsaber will only give it's benefit to itself, not to other lightsabers you create.
I can't quite make sense of all this.

Let me get it straight. You get +1 for creating the saber, then you get the bonus to that saber from whatever crystal you put into it, correct?

Now, how about this...two sabers both with a Kasha crystal. Do I now have a +4 to Will Def or only a +2 because the bonus does not stack...?
I can't quite make sense of all this.

Let me get it straight. You get +1 for creating the saber, then you get the bonus to that saber from whatever crystal you put into it, correct?

Incorrect. You only get whatever bonus the crystal in the lightsaber gives you. Normally, that's a +1 bonus to attack, but the other crystals give you alternatives. Read the "Creator Bonuses" sidebar on page 54 of JATM.

"Patience is the calm acceptance that things can happen in a different order than the one you have in mind."

~ David G Allen

 

D&D 5e Session Recaps:

Dreams of the Red Wizards (Scourge of the Sword Coast)

A Hoard to Remember (Tyranny of Dragons)

 

Now, how about this...two sabers both with a Kasha crystal. Do I now have a +4 to Will Def or only a +2 because the bonus does not stack...?

You would have a +2 Will Defense only.  The alternate crystals replace the usual +1 to hit, and since they are both "Force" bonuses, they would not stack with each other, or any other "Force" bonus to Will Defense.
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