7/21/2010 BoaB: "Pyromancer Ascension"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
I like it
Uh..... unless Standard format change since i last stopped playing (2 years ago), its only the most recent Core set that's in it, making Time Warp not legal in that format.
And Standard has changed since you last stopped playing!  M10 rotates out with Alara Block.
Cutting most of the green was a deck idea I had posted on the old thread for this, but I had not gone all out to Blue-Red. 

I am not against it by any means, as one of our group has already cut the naya charms and explores in favor of call to mind and negate.  I think mana leak is a fine call, but seriously we don't have a problem going off between turn 5 and 7.  Turn 7 without explores allows an ascension to be cast with a Rebouding staggershock or survival cache while you could have 7 mana as early as turn 5 (unlikely).  negate was chosen because of turn count and mana available to your opponent over mana leak.  But to each his own.  You could easily set a PA out on turn 4 with protection of a counterspell. 

In our play I had one go out and off on turn 4 (5 mana) when by opponent trapped in a 9/9 terastadon knocking out my PA and my only plains and island.  3 turns later I was going infinite turns and won outright.
 
Against a lifegain deck I ended up dealing close to 100 points in 2 turns from returned bolts and staggershocks.  I think it was going to average to ~40pts per turn on each of my free turns.

I am still considering my sideboard options for this deck though.  The early version of this deck won every game 1 at a FNM (5 rounds), lost every game 2 and only won game 3 once.  (yes a 1-4 showing).  I am leaning to a transformer sideboard of some sort. 
So, um, I see you taking infinite turns, and I see three opponents conceding to you but what I don't see is an actual win condition. Say I don't concede to you, what you lightning bolt me three times copied twice each? Cause I'm tempted to not actually concede and just let you deck yourself from the extra turns ...

What you need to do is move those Jace's into the main deck. You might dilute your instant/sorcery pool but then you're actually progressing your game with the extra turns, rather then just going around in circles.
This deck seems to be rather strong and nice to play with. Too bad it will rotate after such a brief period of time.
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57817638 wrote:
I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
Listen to my SoundCloud while you read my signature. The Island, Come And See, The Landlord's Daughter, You'll Not Feel The Drowning - The Decemberists by vimschy IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/rkvR.gif)IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/L3es.gif) IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/m71H.gif)
Quotes
56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!
So, um, I see you taking infinite turns, and I see three opponents conceding to you but what I don't see is an actual win condition. Say I don't concede to you, what you lightning bolt me three times copied twice each? Cause I'm tempted to not actually concede and just let you deck yourself from the extra turns ...

What you need to do is move those Jace's into the main deck. You might dilute your instant/sorcery pool but then you're actually progressing your game with the extra turns, rather then just going around in circles.


Once you get infinite turns, all you need is another Call to Mind or another active Ascencion. You can then return a Bolt and hit them for 6 every turn.

He mentioned needing a way to deal with Meddling Mage, and used a SB Burst Lightning as his solution. I noticed that this deck also doesn't have an answer to Leyline of Sanctity or Leyline of the Void once they're in play, which might be before you can counter them. I might recommend running one Into the Roil or something over the SB Burst since it too can deal with Meddling Mage in addition to dealing with Leylines. Other than that, I'd say it looks pretty solid. Maybe they'll reprint Time Warp in Scars.

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein My H/W List
any chance you could post a non budget version lol?
So, um, I see you taking infinite turns, and I see three opponents conceding to you but what I don't see is an actual win condition. Say I don't concede to you, what you lightning bolt me three times copied twice each? Cause I'm tempted to not actually concede and just let you deck yourself from the extra turns ...



The win is from Call to mind + lightning bolt + time warp all copied. 


The deck has 2 big problems.  The first one is that time warp is going.  The second one is with leyline of sanctity and leyline of the void.  I don't know if the black one is going to be played at all, but the white one will definitely.  Then it's an auto loss if they get it in their opening hand.  Seriously, they could sideboard in 4 and mulligan to one card if they have to and then automatically win as there is no answer here.  Your win condition becomes 4 lightning bolts to the face with the black one out and none with the white one.  Might I suggest making a one-of into the roil to deal with the problem?  Or maybe a 1 Emrakul?  15 mana isn't going to be a problem when you have infinite turns.  Take out a foresee

As always, add money to the deck by putting in Scalding Tarn.  I think it is a very fine deck though and has some real potential for the next few months.  Shame that Time Warp is gone, hope something says "extra turn" in Scars!  Otherwise, this deck loses nothing.

Once you get infinite turns, all you need is another Call to Mind or another active Ascencion. You can then return a Bolt and hit them for 6 every turn.

He mentioned needing a way to deal with Meddling Mage, and used a SB Burst Lightning as his solution. I noticed that this deck also doesn't have an answer to Leyline of Sanctity or Leyline of the Void once they're in play, which might be before you can counter them. I might recommend running one Into the Roil or something over the SB Burst since it too can deal with Meddling Mage in addition to dealing with Leylines. Other than that, I'd say it looks pretty solid. Maybe they'll reprint Time Warp in Scars.




Dang it magicguy1 beat me to it.  In fact his post looks almost the same as mine lol
any chance you could post a non budget version lol?



There doesn't seem much to gain actually.  Jace 2 for foresee?  I don't know, you want to hit that pyromancer trigger which Jace doesn't do.  Just the fetchlands instead of the 3x terramorphic 1x wilds
There isn't much to add for a non-budget version. Scalding Tarn is about it. I would be careful how many of the Expanses/Wilds you take out though, since you need them to fetch the Plains out of the board. In addition to the Leylines, Relic of Progenitus is another card that sees some play that can be a real nuissance. Not much you can do about it really if it hits play, just try to play around it the best you can. I don't think this deck will ever make tier one; there are just too many ways to hate it out. It might be fun to play at your local FNM though if no one is prepared to beat it. It's kind of like Turboflare. Time Warp is the only expensive card at around $7.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein My H/W List
Its fun, its cheap, and it might go rampant. On top of the fact that the Leylines might see use because of powerful cards already used in standard as staples(Vengevine and BURN), hate for this type of deck is already in place. BUT like I said cheap and fun so it will draw players to it. (Including me!) Its a near perfect casual deck that needs 1 or 2 more cards to be tier 1. Something like a 1CC instant that says target permanent gains protection from color of your choice till EOT.

P.S. I like the idea of just overloading counter into it and poping enough of your opponents spells turn 3-5 to get pyromancer online. Negate + Mana Leak + Cancel/Deprive
P.S.S. Hey Peterwiggin, you shouldn't talk, it makes you sound stupid.
Try reading your previous post again.  Or, better yet, read it in the morning when your BAC has dropped.
I chose polymorph because it fits in the ponder/preordain shell, yet the win conditions do not overlap, so Leylines do not shut it off nor other grave-hate, while the original plays 0 creatures, so they might side out their removal (if you get lucky).  It was a rough idea, but it might work if you put see beyond main or something.

EDIT: Oops, I read you post wrong.  I guess I should log off this account, I am becoming far too defensive.  Anyways, See Beyond might help as it could shuffle away your other combo.  But something as ridiculous as a Merfolk Spy could solve Leyline of Sanctity, but the graveyard is too integral to Pyromancer Ascension.

SECOND EDIT: It would appear that he deleted his post... =(
Your deck is exactly the reason why Regrowth couldn't be reprinted in M10.

I approve. =) Way to show R&D the resilient spirit of a Johnny. Mnemonic Wall wasn't enough. But if anything does it, 8 Ponder effects will.
Try reading your previous post again.  Or, better yet, read it in the morning when your BAC has dropped.



Looks like you're not making many friends either, eh?

Had you read Ender's Game, you might recognize the character which I am embodying.



I didn't realize this was the roleplaying forums. Sorry I didn't get your fake persona.

But enought about me.  Lets talk about you.

Blah blah blah



Yeah this got immature really quickly. I'll the adult and work away. Good luck being a jerk to someone else.

SICK power.


And I love consistency.  Thumbs up:-)

I'll the adult and work away.



First off most adults were able to learn grammar in school.  I will just assume you meant "I'll be the adult and walk away."  Fair enough.  Except that saying that is an oxymoron, if you truely meant it you would not have posted it.  So much for maturity.
Please keep your posts polite, respectful, and on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks.
Am I the only one who is sick of this column not even being remotely budget? This week, 8 mythics and 8 rares. You can go back for a while and see it's about the same. Plus, I disagree with posting a standard deck that will be completely neutered in 2 months. I just don't think this column reaches a true "budget" audience anymore. Past authors were extremely careful not to go over more than a couple of play sets of rares. The budget deck would be tested, then, more expensive swaps would be suggested, even to include non-standard, less expensive choices. i.e. building the deck list with Volcanic Fallout, then recommending Earthquake as standard or a cheaper Molten Disaster for casual. Don't get me wrong, this is my favorite column on this site. The structure, playtesting, deck ideas are top-notch, but just not budget.
Yes, JVL's sideboards can be considered non-budget, but they are extremely variable based on the metagame so you might want to make your own.  Pyromancer Ascension and Time Warp aren't staples, and they appear to be necessary for the deck to function. 

Yes, Jacob is different than some previous authors, but I find his column rather good.
Good enjoyable deck but I agree with questions as to its budget.  I quite liked it when the decks had to be built for $30 or less.
You can't ask for much more of a budget deck outside of pauper. The deck needs Time Warp to win, and it needs a full set of them. That is the most expensive card in the deck. I found Ascensions online for a quarter a piece and Earthquakes for a buck a piece. The Jaces in the SB are the next most expensive card after Time Warp (~$4.50), and those could probably be replaced with Negates or something if you can't afford it. A set of Time Warps might run you around $25-30. You could probably get all of the rares other than Jace for about $35 and trade for the rest. That's pretty good considering this is very close to an optimal list, and the main improvement (Scalding Tarn) isn't that important. The same cannot be said about almost any other deck. Either the deck is cheap, or it is optimal. It's very hard to have both.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed." - Albert Einstein My H/W List
Am I the only one who is sick of this column not even being remotely budget? This week, 8 mythics and 8 rares. You can go back for a while and see it's about the same. Plus, I disagree with posting a standard deck that will be completely neutered in 2 months. I just don't think this column reaches a true "budget" audience anymore. Past authors were extremely careful not to go over more than a couple of play sets of rares. The budget deck would be tested, then, more expensive swaps would be suggested, even to include non-standard, less expensive choices. i.e. building the deck list with Volcanic Fallout, then recommending Earthquake as standard or a cheaper Molten Disaster for casual. Don't get me wrong, this is my favorite column on this site. The structure, playtesting, deck ideas are top-notch, but just not budget.



Ignoring what is legal in standard because it is relatively short is silly. It is even sillier considering this deck revisits a past deck. If you already acquired time warps and the ascensions because you liked the idea in the past, this is a very affordable way to get the most out of them while you still can.

Finally, comparing what Jacob has to deal with to past authors is pointless. Past authors didn't have to deal with budgets in a world of multiple $60+ mythics in standard. It is unreasonable to expect that week in and week out, Jacob can come up with a deck that beats Jace 2.0 decks and costs less than half of one of their Jaces. If it beats Jace and costs less than Jace, that is budget.

Good enjoyable deck but I agree with questions as to its budget.  I quite liked it when the decks had to be built for $30 or less.



This was based on MTGO and pre-shards. A lot has changed since then, and that author was building decks for the MTGO casual room.

After ZEN came out, I made a Grixis Ascension deck that WAS budget.
The win was (unsurprisingly) Cruel Ultimatum.
I don't like the infy Time Warp decks. I never really did. I have played against Naya Charm ascension before. Never before has siding in Swerve been so utterly backbreaking. (I was playing a different grixis at the time)

For the deck to be good, it needs to be able to win without Ascension.

"Stop *****ing, start brewing" -YoMTGTaps Trying to talk Magic players off ledges since 2001. Sharing my knowledge of rumor history, and how to discuss rumors effectively.

The deck does NOT need 4 Time Warp.  Time Warp is a conditional card.  For 5 mana you are going to want to have it doubled.  It is the most expensive spell in your deck.  You want to have a Pyromancers Ascesion out with counters PRIOR to playing Time Warp. 

What you need is very linear deck reveal and card draw to get the proper play of the cards.  Frankly speaking the writers praises of Ponder is misplaced because his design is a shuffler; the truth is that Ponder is the weakest card in the deck.   Take out the Ponders, take out the fetch, play with Tri-color and "all-color" lands. 

What is better than Ponder is survival cache.  It just ruins your opponent.  On turn 3 it represents 4 life gain with 2 card draw.  It forces players to play into staggershock trying to keep you from gaining so many free cards. 

Staggershock with Lightning Bolt generally will get you there.  Having a rebounded Survival cache on the stack with a responding Bolt to the Dome to get your free card and set up the same turn Pyromancers Ascension is awesome. 

Bolt-Copy Bolt becomes very common.  Kill your angel. 

The trouble that this deck can run into is shroud.  Shroud is the reason why I have not abandoned White GReen and kept the charms. 

Will I sleeve up this version?  Yes.  But do I think it will be better than my current version?  No.  Playtest is tonight. 

Awesome!

I took a break from Magic around the time Alara Reborn came out, and I'm just now getting back into it. As I was looking through the cards I had missed Pyromancer Ascension jumped out of me instantly. I tried to put together a standard deck, but it focused more on burn than card draw. Silly me.. I thought M10 was out of standard already!

Ponder? I thought you were gone already, welcome back old friend!! Time Warp? Yes!

I had tried my deck out at a standard tournament last night.. and my 0-4 record wasn't looking too good. Basically all I faced were 3 Jund decks and an Esper deck, they killed me way to fast for me to get my "combo" off. But I had been relying on 2 or 3 double or triple Lightning Bolts to win, no infinite turn combo. I shall have to try this again..
Two keys to playing Pyromancer's Ascension decks:

-Don't make winning dependent on the enchantment
-Don't play cards that are usually bad, and only good when doubled.

The most success I have had with a build was a Grixis burn variant, but I don't know if I would play a 4 Blightning 3 Cruel deck these days.
"Stop *****ing, start brewing" -YoMTGTaps Trying to talk Magic players off ledges since 2001. Sharing my knowledge of rumor history, and how to discuss rumors effectively.
Umm...I'm just throwing out ideas here, but if you want to make this budget...replace Time Warp with Archive Trap and throw in oh, I don't know...Roiling Terrain.  Get a budget way to punish people for using thirty-euro manabases. 

If nothing else, you could swap out Time Warp for Reality Spasm.  Not anywhere near as good, but with a little tweaking it can get the same result.  Play Spasm for X, the copy gives you an untap effect, you add mana, then the regular spell gives you mana.  You could get an arbitrarily large turn that way, if you have enough mana open.  At the very least, you can tap critical mana early on. 

And honestly, all this debate on budget...Van Lunen is not required to give you dirt-cheap ways to beat the Magic-hardliners.  There is still the slight detail of building your own deck, at least trying to be original.  You could argue that his decks are too expensive, or you could spend that time and energy trying to get a better, cheap version of the thing.  Learn from it, maybe. 

What is good about this deck? It's consistent, it's powerful, and personally I just love Pyromancer decks.  Besides that, a big chunk of this deck can be acquired through a magic 2011 boosterbox.  If I knew a noob who was about to throw money at this hobby, this is the deck I'd recommend. 
(Assuming I want a noob who won't simply roll over and die at my table, funny though it may be)

What's bad about this deck?

-It relies on the graveyard to power up its key card, which admittedly is a weakness...with Leylines and Relics of Progenitus.  This can be mended with Into the Roil, as mentioned, or Manic Vandal. 

-Some of the key cards will rotate out soon.  Honestly, I can see why this is a concern.  Never played a Constructed tourney myself (casual and multiplayer, this is just a great source for inspiration) but I can see that those who do want some long-term success.  Again, how can you fix this problem? By looking at similar cards that won't rotate out as quickly.  The lack of Ponder does not mean that Treasure Hunt is suddenly useless.  With an Ascension active, Treasure Hunt allows you to sift through a land glut just like Ponder can.  Without one active, it can actually net more cards than Ponder.  And in case the occasional one-one tradeoff doesn't seem all that good, there is also See Beyond. 

-The budget.  This is always going to be debatable.  Fact of the matter is, our hobby is feeding an industry.  We can't get around that.  Be glad that there are viable cards and strategies that don't cost an arm and a leg.  If you cannot afford one way to victory, find one that you can.  Archive Trap is a decent replacement for Time Warp, especially with all the expensive fetch-lands around.  You don't get infinite turns, and against Bloodghast you're risking a lot without Pyroclasms, but it is a viable route to winning, can randomly remove bigger threats (like enchantment removal) and it's at instant speed.  And if you happened to be the aforementioned noob with an M2011 box, Traumatize will work the same way, but less effectively if you want to follow up with Roiling Terrain.  Sphinx-Bone Wand...might work with more mana-acceleration, but it's doubtful at best.  Roiling Terrain on its own might do the job, recurred often enough, but there's the problem of stabilising the board first.  It kinda relies on going off even if there's an army on the other side.  More mass removal for that recipe, and possibly Staggershocks. 

Really though, taking extra turns and burning to death is one way of going about it.  While others may not be as good, there are others.  You could go three-colours and try a Silence lock, if you can afford it. 

My two eurocents. 
-It relies on the graveyard to power up its key card, which admittedly is a weakness...with Leylines and Relics of Progenitus.  This can be mended with Into the Roil, as mentioned, or Manic Vandal. 



[C]Bojuka Bog[/c] and Haunting Echoes are the best GY hosers for standard right now.
I run bog in my UW control to great success.
"Stop *****ing, start brewing" -YoMTGTaps Trying to talk Magic players off ledges since 2001. Sharing my knowledge of rumor history, and how to discuss rumors effectively.
Budget or not, this deck is pretty sick. It also further proves that Spreading Seas is the most powerful card in standard right now (take that, mythic rares).

As far as the budget issue goes, I agree with a previous poster who said that it's very hard to make a reliable, fun deck in this format on the cheap. That said, it's not impossible I'm sure, and I don't really remember sticking to standard format being a requirement, but it does make sense.                             Why would MtG write articles showcasing decks that use old dusty cards? they just printed a bunch of new shinies they want you to (buy) play with!
You guys who haven't played this deck are GREATLY underestimating its power. 

There are decisions to be made to play it right.  Of that I am sure, since I've trained two other players on how to win with the deck (same decks different drivers). 

Time Warp is inexpensive.  It is the most valuable card in the deck and you really only need 3 to be consistant.  If you can't afford $40 for this deck, maybe you want to start writing a new article called
"Building with crap that nobody plays with EVER!"  or maybe a shorter version called "Building from garbage"  Maybe that would silence you finally. 

Speaking of Silence, it is a great card choice for the deck.  It can stiffle your opponent on turn 3 or 4 to great and lasting effect.  The trouble is that it doesn't thin your own deck, nor will it remove the threat that your opponent would otherwise play (althought it will delay them). 

Lastly, I do think a complete transformation for game 2 is in order.  Drawing your opponent BLANK on all their creature elimination is fantastic.  Bringing in Shroud creatures of your own and generally offensive creature cards (say 1 platinum angel and some hording dragons) after they remove their creature elimination will be deadly.  4 Sphynx, 4 Hording Dragons, 2 Platinum Angel, 2 Phoenix, 3 ancients should do a nice sideboard swap. 
This deck is far closer to being a budget deck than some of the past decks. I am really happy with this article it takes me back to when BoaB actually talked about budget decks and in spite of the fact that this deck has "been done before" he was able to pick out a under rated, undervalued decklist that not just anyone would have thought up. Plus in my mind he did a pretty good job keeping it cheaper than some of the decklists he's worked on. I think using a strategy that is rotating so soon is the biggest problem. time warp is essential for this deck to survive and continue to be competitive. So let's get a bunch of "budget" players to go get a $30 playset of a card that they'll never be able to use again. Granted since he did this decklist (pre M11) before you may already have the cards to upgrade with however, that deck wasn't very good so I'm not sure how many people actually played it. The good news is that this deck is a HUGE upgrade to that deck which was 4 colors and at least a turn slower but probably closer to 2 turns slower.
Don't be too smart to have fun
You guys who haven't played this deck are GREATLY underestimating its power. 



I have played Ascension decks. Ones that try for the time warp combo are <<<<<<<<<<<< ones that just try to get value out of copying good spells. Ascension is dealt with easily by most decks, after all.

There are decisions to be made to play it right.  Of that I am sure, since I've trained two other players on how to win with the deck (same decks different drivers). 

Time Warp is inexpensive.  It is the most valuable card in the deck and you really only need 3 to be consistant.  If you can't afford $40 for this deck, maybe you want to start writing a new article called
"Building with crap that nobody plays with EVER!"  or maybe a shorter version called "Building from garbage"  Maybe that would silence you finally. 

Speaking of Silence, it is a great card choice for the deck.  It can stiffle your opponent on turn 3 or 4 to great and lasting effect.  The trouble is that it doesn't thin your own deck, nor will it remove the threat that your opponent would otherwise play (althought it will delay them). 



Silence?.....

Lastly, I do think a complete transformation for game 2 is in order.  Drawing your opponent BLANK on all their creature elimination is fantastic.  Bringing in Shroud creatures of your own and generally offensive creature cards (say 1 platinum angel and some hording dragons) after they remove their creature elimination will be deadly.  4 Sphynx, 4 Hording Dragons, 2 Platinum Angel, 2 Phoenix, 3 ancients should do a nice sideboard swap. 



That is way too many creatures, and will result in you probably losing to the opponent doing whatever they want.
"Stop *****ing, start brewing" -YoMTGTaps Trying to talk Magic players off ledges since 2001. Sharing my knowledge of rumor history, and how to discuss rumors effectively.
I mentioned ealier in a post (which it would appear a mod has deleted) that you could also put a polymorph combo into this deck.  In another (now deleted) post, fractal suggested moving it maindeck, resulting in a hybrid deck that can put the cheap cantrips to use.  I am not sure whether to do that or just side in creatures.
All you budget whiners, give me a break. Mythics in this, our best of games have severely raped our wallets and the quality of decks that don't use them. You have to learn to GET OVER IT or SETTLE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE. Or you could try being resourceful... just do what I do. Admittedly, I have one of the better set-ups here, so it might be different for you guys. Buy a bunch of crap at birthdays, christmas, all that jazz and then use the valuable stuff you get to trade for other, possibly less valuable stuff later. For example, my birthday is in October so I spent crap-tons of money, WAAAY more than I have the rest of the year, on Zen packs and got plenty of fetches and other good cards. Then I used Christmas money to buy the rest of the stuff for a Boros deck. As of Christmas, I had a Jund deck, a WW deck, and Boros Bushwhacker deck. When I got bored with those, I scrapped them and moved on. I now have an Eldrazi Green deck, an Abyssal Persecutor deck, and a B/G Rock deck. Three less expensive but more entertaining decks. And you know how much I've spent since Chrismas in order to make the decks??? NOTHING. I've drafted RoE plenty of times, but never to get the stuff I needed. All that I needed for these decks came from the scraps of other decks. So trade what you have for what you need.
It's my sig in a box! -RP Jesus
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I... need a filing cabinet. -Quagmire I think I saw Emrakul in a cartoon with Japanese schoolgirls once. It didn't end well. -Qmark Edit: Couldn't find a cookie, so here's an octopus. Enjoy. -Zigeif777
57718868 wrote:
58844013 wrote:
grandma pumps the threat she ramps.
If you believe in Jesus and love him and aren't afraid to admit it, put this in your sig. Jun 30, 2010 -- 1:35AM, S1AL wrote: Playing a bad deck in order to be original is like using crappy tools to build something. Not only does it look bad in the end, but nobody really thinks that you're cool for being unwilling to do things the way a professional would.
Look at the card. Now back to Jace. Now back to that card, now back to Jace! Sadly, it isn't Jace, but if it stopped being a junk rare and became relevant, it could act like it's Jace. Crack some Worldwake. What do you have? You have a Jace, the card you wish this card could be like. Look again. THE CARD IS NOW A $75 BILL. Anything possible when you play Magic with Jace and not junk rares.
Fantastic deck! I would never run it, because I find playing combo uninteractive and dull, but there's no denying the power of this deck. Kudos.

Also, you people better stop bitching about JVL's "non-budget" decks. Do you really want him to step down and be replaced by some chump that brews 10$ decks that can't beat an Intro Pack? I like the fact that JVL keeps his decks competitive. Maybe they aren't the cheapest thing, but hey - as long as there's no Bankslayers and Walletsculptors there, I like it.
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