Wizards apparent hatred toward versatile and well rounded characters.

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It seems like every time they release a new rules update they keep nerfing those things that make a char well rounded, versatile, and not pigeon holed into one and only one role. One of the things that I adore about DnD is the ability to create a character, and give them a personality both in and out of combat. Wizards has released things that allow this to happen, but they double back and nerf it so that it either is not worth the effort or does nothing close to what it did prior.

Examples:
Flute of the Satyr: Use to allow everyone to shift two as a 1/encounter item use. Now it allows everyone to shift 2 as a 1/day Item daily use. This moves it from somewhat useful to absolutely worthless 99% of the time as having everyone shift 2 is not worth the precious resource of an item daily use.  

Windrise Ports Regional Benefit: Use to allow you to multiclass twice instead of only once. This allowed for some builds that involved one of the specialty weapon MCs to be possible without totally gimping the char if they wanted to also MC into something else. It required the use of two feats to utilize and was only interesting to people with builds that required or benefited from multiclassing. Now it adds one skill to your class list, not even granting training in it as many of the other backgrounds do. This has made it virtually useless. Multiclassing twice is not excessive, particularly since multiclassing is so weak in 4.0 to begin with. 

It just really bothers me that every time they release something that allows for a char to not be a cookie-cutter char but still be effective at their main job they go and nerf it to high heaven and make you go back to playing what I have heard many refer to as "a table top videogame". It almost makes me want to go back to 3.5 or shift games entirely.  
Flute of the Satyr: Use to allow everyone to shift two as a 1/encounter item use. Now it allows everyone to shift 2 as a 1/day Item daily use. This moves it from somewhat useful to absolutely worthless 99% of the time as having everyone shift 2 is not worth the precious resource of an item daily use. 

Blame it on people who abused it.
At higher levels, you can stock up on these and basically let everyone Shift 2 multiple times throughout an encounter. With an encounter length of 5 rounds, if everybody carried 5 you'd be able to have everyone Shift 10 every round.
Mostly I think they are setting the "balance" point too low. They need to be boosting more items and more powers instead of taking the nerf bat  to just about everything. 
The only thing people were using Windrise Port is multiclass cheese in order to gain access to multiple powerful class-based feats. For every person that was using it for roleplaying purposes, there were three that were using it to break the game.

This round of errata really nerfed the Feycharger builds into the ground, what with the changes to Windrise Ports and Slashing Wake. Even without Eladrin Swordmage Advance, Feycharger were still the most damaging builds in the game, capable of cranking out four digits of DPR by the time they hit Epic Tier.

Don't like the changes to Windrise Ports or Flute of the Satyr? Well, they were a problem. Too many people were using them to break the game. Don't blame Wizards for fixing it, blame the optimizers for breaking it.
Flute of the Satyr: Use to allow everyone to shift two as a 1/encounter item use. Now it allows everyone to shift 2 as a 1/day Item daily use. This moves it from somewhat useful to absolutely worthless 99% of the time as having everyone shift 2 is not worth the precious resource of an item daily use. 

Blame it on people who abused it.
At higher levels, you can stock up on these and basically let everyone Shift 2 multiple times throughout an encounter. With an encounter length of 5 rounds, if everybody carried 5 you'd be able to have everyone Shift 10 every round.



WTF? Was there a Flute of the Satyr half-price closeout sale at Ye Olde Magic-Mart? Some of that responsibility needs to rest on the DM. A DM that would allow such things to occur in his game is simply begging for abuse of these items, and has NO right to complain about it if it happens. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Flute as it was, and is now one more piece of update/errata that I will gladly be ignoring (and that list is growing by the month).
Unless you restrict access to Enchant Magic Item (which would be a houserule) players can just make their own, and the only thing the DM can do about it is more houserules.

Also, if you dislike the changes, don't use them. If you play in a place where you are forced to use these changes, well... tough luck. Since there isn't any real way to make a rule that says "don't mess with the game" this is their only option for a standardized format to work. 
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Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
The cry of "well, if magic item X is a problem, then the DM shouldn't give it to the party" isn't really a valid one anymore. By the time the party hits upper heroic, they shouldn't be buying magic items at all; they should be making them via Enchant Magic Item. It's a lot harder to restrict what does and does not make it into the game when the party can turn their loot into magic items without a salesperson middleman, and those restrictions tend to come off as "no, you can't make that because I, the DM, say so".

Besides, this isn't 3rd Edition. The assumption is that the party shouldn't necessarily have to run every magic item or feat or power selection by the DM, because the game is assumed to be balanced enough to handle it. When something becomes so powerful that the DM can't control it and has to step in to fiat it away, it means that its a problem for that table. If multiple DMs have the same problem, it's probably time for some errata.
The point is, there seems to be more of an issue with Enchant Magic Item than with the items themselves. There is nothing inherently wring with the Flute. The problem seems to come from having a stockpile of them. I would much rather them nerf the use of Enchant Magic Item (perhaps impose a limit of X number of the same item) than to nerf item after item because someone might use EMI to make a dozen of them. It seems like backwards thinking, and is turning what were useful items into things hardly worth taking up page-space. What has happened to the Flute, for example, has turned it from an item possibly worth getting to an item that will be overlooked altogether. They have rendered the Flute just about useless, when there were other ways to go about limiting it.

By the way, every time someone suggests a change or voices a complaint about WotC's methods of dealing with 4E, instantly bringing up 3E is bad form. Some of us didn't play 3E (or 3.X), had no desire to, and simply find the "solutions" the devs are coming up with to be sloppy and poorly thought out.
I don't know about the Flute of the Satyr, but Windrise Ports was a can of worms. The powergamers at our tables were eating that up. Personally, I think the Bard multiclass versatility needs to be changed as well. I've seen a few "optimised" bards out there.
"You cannot use multiple copies of the same named magic item during a single day" wouldn't be a bad rule (assuming a little exception for dual wielders) really.
Epic Dungeon Master

Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen!

Your Kingdom awaits!
Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.
Now it adds one skill to your class list, not even granting training in it as many of the other backgrounds do. This has made it virtually useless.



I don't know of any backgrounds that give you training in a skill...  Or did you mean just get the +2 bonus to the skill?

Always a GM, never a player (not really but sometimes feels like it).

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Windrise Ports Regional Benefit: Use to allow you to multiclass twice instead of only once. This allowed for some builds that involved one of the specialty weapon MCs to be possible without totally gimping the char if they wanted to also MC into something else. It required the use of two feats to utilize and was only interesting to people with builds that required or benefited from multiclassing. Now it adds one skill to your class list, not even granting training in it as many of the other backgrounds do. This has made it virtually useless. Multiclassing twice is not excessive, particularly since multiclassing is so weak in 4.0 to begin with.


What backgrounds grant you extra skill training?

Multiclassing is VERY powerful.  Class features exist as feats; multiclassing in to a class gives you feat access to all those features AND skill training AND some other class benefit.
It just really bothers me that every time they release something that allows for a char to not be a cookie-cutter char but still be effective at their main job they go and nerf it to high heaven and make you go back to playing what I have heard many refer to as "a table top videogame". It almost makes me want to go back to 3.5 or shift games entirely.


This just in.  You can create your own magic items, monsters, traps, effects, races, classes, powers, feats, armor, weapons, rituals, and countless other things.  You can also modify existing ones as well.

Sorry, I just do not subscribe to any notion that things are broken in this game, especially to the point where I am going to threaten leaving it for some other game or version.  This is not a video game where the rules that govern the are complex, predefined computer algorithms. 

If you are sitting in on an RPGA event, then of course you have to abide by the rules.  If the rules are that much of an outrage to you, then don't play in the event.

Celebrate our differences.

Don't like the changes to Windrise Ports or Flute of the Satyr? Well, they were a problem. Too many people were using them to break the game. Don't blame Wizards for fixing it, blame the optimizers for breaking it.



Optimizers will always break it, that is what they do. They set out to find the build that gives strongest implementation of a set criteria, usually maximising DPR, or debuffs, or whatever. So instead of fighting what will always be a losing battle (trying to prevent the optimizers' builds being "too" broken), why not accept that that is always what a minority of people will do, and actually cater to the majority of people who are not trying to recreate pun-pun?

Back in the day I played more than a few of the old MUDs, and you know what? Exactly the same behaviour existed, and exactly the same responses were undertaken. Abilities were recoded, spells rewritten, a user-base wide skills cut was even imposed once... and it solved nothing. The problem isn't the items or abilities, it is the people.

My approach to the NPCs of previous editions.

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I always saw the High Level NPCs as shepherds of the Realms not its defenders. Making sure that not too many sheep were lost as they milled around (as they are wont to do) and bringing on the young'uns into the job. In that way a shepherd never has time to go and hunt down all of the wolves but is pretty dashed effective at keeping them away from the sheep when they rear their heads.
"It was a puzzle why things were always dragged kicking and screaming. No one ever seemed to want to, for example, lead them gently by the hand." - Terry Pratchett
I think its pretty much a given that D&D 4e is designed to strongly discourage characters being versatile or flexible, but this post seems to have very little to do with that. I don't see how overpowered magic items really relates.

WotC seems to make a lot of broken stuff by refusing to follow their own rules; limits on item usage would pretty much insure most items wouldn't "break" the game, but then they add so many items without limits...

My players were really annoyed at the daily magic item power rules, so we play that you can only gain the benefits of one magic item per day per slot (2 for weapons/implements & 2 for wondrous items).

Haven't had a problem.

Granted, my players are great about not being annoying.

Flute of the Satyr: Use to allow everyone to shift two as a 1/encounter item use. Now it allows everyone to shift 2 as a 1/day Item daily use. This moves it from somewhat useful to absolutely worthless 99% of the time as having everyone shift 2 is not worth the precious resource of an item daily use. 

Blame it on people who abused it.
At higher levels, you can stock up on these and basically let everyone Shift 2 multiple times throughout an encounter. With an encounter length of 5 rounds, if everybody carried 5 you'd be able to have everyone Shift 10 every round.



WTF? Was there a Flute of the Satyr half-price closeout sale at Ye Olde Magic-Mart? Some of that responsibility needs to rest on the DM. A DM that would allow such things to occur in his game is simply begging for abuse of these items, and has NO right to complain about it if it happens. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the Flute as it was, and is now one more piece of update/errata that I will gladly be ignoring (and that list is growing by the month).



Gonna have to agree, but from my impression of LFR, trips to town are basically "You can buy whatever the hell you want as long as you can afford it."
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"You cannot use multiple copies of the same named magic item during a single day" wouldn't be a bad rule (assuming a little exception for dual wielders) really.

This won't stop a party of five from having one each, making the flute-abuse an unresolved concern.

Turning abusable items into daily-power items only is the easiest solution. If it makes an item unappealing in the process (compared with other options) too bad. Having nobody choose an item is not game-breaking or balance-threatening.

Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
WTF? Was there a Flute of the Satyr half-price closeout sale at Ye Olde Magic-Mart?

They don't have to be half-price for every paragon-tier PC to afford to make one or more each.

In an LFR campaign, the DM *can't* say no.
In a home campaign, the DM can do whatever s/he wants, including ignore the errata.

Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
Player #1: "I decided for this character, I'm going to do something different... I want to be versatile and well-rounded."

Player #2: "Oh, so you finally decided to do a wider spread of attributes instead of pumping your primary to 20?"

Player #1: "Pfffffft. Of course not."

Player #2: "You're embracing Backgrounds as something more than another way to make your character more powerful?"

Player #1: "Backgrounds WHAT? No. I'm talking about being well-rounded. And versatile."

Player #2: "Hybrid? Multiclass."

Player #1: "Noooooooooooooo. Do you even speak English? I said VERSATILE. And WELL-ROUNDED."

Player#2: "Well, how exactly are you..."

Player #1: "SACK FULL OF SATYR FLUTES!"

Player #2: "You're not invited to our game any more." 
...and that's the news from Lake 4th Edition, where the Gnomes are strong, the Half-Orcs are good-looking, and all the PCs are above average.


Turning abusable items into daily-power items only is the easiest solution. If it makes an item unappealing in the process (compared with other options) too bad. Having nobody choose an item is not game-breaking or balance-threatening.





I don't know man but I think that a game rife with lackluster options is as dangerous as one with a bunch of overpowered stuff.
How about "Special: A creature can only benefit from the effects of Flute of the Satyr once per encounter regardless of the number of flautists."


I don't see how a flute and a background make versatile characters.

Play a bard.  Reflavor.  Less qq.
Sadly, tofu never screams.
I've always thought the item was nonsensical to begin with. Everyone knows that flautery will get you nowhere.
...and that's the news from Lake 4th Edition, where the Gnomes are strong, the Half-Orcs are good-looking, and all the PCs are above average.
To put it more simply,

Player #1: "I decided for this character, I'm going to do something different... I want to be versatile and well-rounded."

Player #2: "Oh, so you're going to do
Player #1: No to all. I'm going to use a magic item and a background that gets me rule bending MC cheese, because that's what versatile is.

World: WTF?




Seriously, this thread wins the nobel fail prize for failing.
Player #1: "I decided for this character, I'm going to do something different... I want to be versatile and well-rounded."

Player #2: "Oh, so you finally decided to do a wider spread of attributes instead of pumping your primary to 20?"

Player #1: "Pfffffft. Of course not."

Player #2: "You're embracing Backgrounds as something more than another way to make your character more powerful?"

Player #1: "Backgrounds WHAT? No. I'm talking about being well-rounded. And versatile."

Player #2: "Hybrid? Multiclass."

Player #1: "Noooooooooooooo. Do you even speak English? I said VERSATILE. And WELL-ROUNDED."

Player#2: "Well, how exactly are you..."

Player #1: "SACK FULL OF SATYR FLUTES!"

Player #2: "You're not invited to our game any more." 



You better stop that Alexandra ... you bout had me breathing peanut shells with laughter (either that or I should wait to have my salt fix till after reading the forum)


  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

Player #1: "I decided for this character, I'm going to do something different... I want to be versatile and well-rounded."

Player #2: (snipped for hilarity)


Alexandra, I have the flu.  That laughing fit could've killed me.  My daughter would've had to hunt you down for revenge "Kill Bill" style.  In other words, remember words can hurt.
@T-Mack: Hey, I'm taking my own life into my hands, given that I apparently triggered a breath weapon from Garthanos that uses a damage type I'm vulnerable to.

...and that's the news from Lake 4th Edition, where the Gnomes are strong, the Half-Orcs are good-looking, and all the PCs are above average.
I think its pretty much a given that D&D 4e is designed to strongly discourage characters being versatile or flexible, but this post seems to have very little to do with that. I don't see how overpowered magic items really relates.



Hmm. Its been my experience that 4e is designed so that everyone is pretty versatile and flexible. Your skill bonuses usually within 5 pts or so of someone trained in a particular skill. There are heals sprinkled throughout many of the classes. A feat or two and you can cast spells if you're so inclined.



"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
I don't know man but I think that a game rife with lackluster options is as dangerous as one with a bunch of overpowered stuff.

I would too, if that were the case.

Fortunately, having only about 10% of the items affected by errata, brigning to closer to 20% the total number of lackluster items is a good thing. Especially when it removes the overpowered stuff from the equation.

Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.

I don't see how a flute and a background make versatile characters.

Play a bard.  Reflavor.  Less qq.



I like the backgrounds with bite and quite honestly think a multi-classing for unusual weapon specialization and another for other effect is a very good use of wind-rise ports background : I think of WRP as Fantasy Athens Greece.(accurate or not)

But bards will give you mr versatile big time.
  Creative Character Build Collection and The Magic of King's and Heros  also Can Martial Characters Fly? 

Improvisation in 4e: Fave 4E Improvisations - also Wrecans Guides to improvisation beyond page 42
The Non-combatant Adventurer (aka Princess build Warlord or LazyLord)
Reality is unrealistic - and even monkeys protest unfairness
Reflavoring the Fighter : The Wizard : The Swordmage - Creative Character Collection: Bloodwright (Darksun Character) 

At full hit points and still wounded to incapacitation? you are playing 1e.
By virtue of being a player your characters are the protagonists in a heroic fantasy game even at level one
"Wizards and Warriors need abilities with explicit effects for opposite reasons. With the wizard its because you need to create artificial limits on them, they have no natural ones and for the Warrior you need to grant permission to do awesome."

 

To seriously address the meat of this complaint: if you carry a flute of the dancing satyr around just in case you find yourself in a situation where it's worth a daily magic item use for the whole party to shift, then you're still a more versatile and well-rounded character than if you don't carry the flute. It's one of the lower-level magical musical instruments in my paragon bard's haversack for that reason.

She rarely has a use for most of them, but she often has a use for one of them. How is that not versatile?

For non-powergamers who weren't carrying multiple flutes, the only thing that's changed is that you don't get to effectively add a whole-party utility power to your character sheet for free.* But it's still an option to improve the breadth of your repertoire.

(*with purchase of flute. But since it never "levels out of" usefulness, the cost of the flute is negligible over its lifetime.)
...and that's the news from Lake 4th Edition, where the Gnomes are strong, the Half-Orcs are good-looking, and all the PCs are above average.
I've always thought the item was nonsensical to begin with. Everyone knows that flautery will get you nowhere.



I dunno... I was always told, if you've got it, flaut it.
@FayeLampshire: Until your neighbors tell you to pipe down.
...and that's the news from Lake 4th Edition, where the Gnomes are strong, the Half-Orcs are good-looking, and all the PCs are above average.
Player #1: "I decided for this character, I'm going to do something different... I want to be versatile and well-rounded."

Player #2: "Oh, so you finally decided to do a wider spread of attributes instead of pumping your primary to 20?"

Player #1: "Pfffffft. Of course not."

Player #2: "You're embracing Backgrounds as something more than another way to make your character more powerful?"

Player #1: "Backgrounds WHAT? No. I'm talking about being well-rounded. And versatile."

Player #2: "Hybrid? Multiclass."

Player #1: "Noooooooooooooo. Do you even speak English? I said VERSATILE. And WELL-ROUNDED."

Player#2: "Well, how exactly are you..."

Player #1: "SACK FULL OF SATYR FLUTES!"

Player #2: "You're not invited to our game any more." 

You win!
I've always thought the item was nonsensical to begin with. Everyone knows that flautery will get you nowhere.

Nevermind...NOW you win!

But seriously, I agree with the point of the funny comment.  I don't understand the OP definitions of a versatile and well-rounded character.  Here are just a few of the many things you could do:
1) Take the Linguist feat. 
2) Take the Jack of All Trades feat.
3) Take the Skill Training feat in a skill that is unusual for your class.
4) Instead of having a 20 in your prime and a Cha of 8 because "it is a dump stat", don't have any stat above 18 or below 10.
5) Use your own imagination to come up with a fantastic background and personality.
6) Try to get your hands on some of the magic items with unusual daily powers.  As Erin said, even as a daily power, that Flute is something that will really be helpful from time to time.



I don't know man but I think that a game rife with lackluster options is as dangerous as one with a bunch of overpowered stuff.

I would too, if that were the case.

Fortunately, having only about 10% of the items affected by errata, brigning to closer to 20% the total number of lackluster items is a good thing. Especially when it removes the overpowered stuff from the equation.



but most of the stuff was lackluster to begin with. what gets nerfed is usually the few gems that shine through.  20% of all the items is not as insignificant as it seems because only a small percentage of the whole is relevant to each particular class. e.g if there are 100 items in all and that gets divided among 10 classes, each class may find only about 20 items relevant to them and of that 20 there  may be 5 that are really nice; nerf those 5 and you kinda end up with nothing really cool anymore.
Although now I'm thinking... it might be that a change in the power would be in order to make it more in line with dailies, since the base (non-cheesed) power was designed to be an encounter one.

Like changing it from a move to a minor. (Can you play a flute in a minor?) Or allowing it is an immediate interrupt when you or an ally in burst 5 is attacked. Either one of those might make it more viable as a primary item schtick for a mid-heroic, instead of being a contingency item for mid-paragon. I suppose I'd have to compare it to some level 6 Leader utilities to see how it stacks up against them to be sure.
...and that's the news from Lake 4th Edition, where the Gnomes are strong, the Half-Orcs are good-looking, and all the PCs are above average.
I don't know man but I think that a game rife with lackluster options is as dangerous as one with a bunch of overpowered stuff.

I would too, if that were the case.

Fortunately, having only about 10% of the items affected by errata, brigning to closer to 20% the total number of lackluster items is a good thing. Especially when it removes the overpowered stuff from the equation.



but most of the stuff was lackluster to begin with. what gets nerfed is usually the few gems that shine through.  20% of all the items is not as insignificant as it seems because only a small percentage of the whole is relevant to each particular class. e.g if there are 100 items in all and that gets divided among 10 classes, each class may find only about 20 items relevant to them and of that 20 there  may be 5 that are really nice; nerf those 5 and you kinda end up with nothing really cool anymore.



Perhaps they were lackluster because certain items were just too good?

A flashlight is pretty lackluster next to a floodlight, but pretty amazing next to a candle, if you know what I mean. 
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
It just really bothers me that every time they release something that allows for a char to not be a cookie-cutter char but still be effective at their main job...

Define effective. You need very little sacrifice in feats to be effective at your main job. Same ofr items. There is already enough reduncancy built into the system tht you can take non-optimization options.
...they go and nerf it to high heaven ....

Things that get nerfed are all things that allowed abuse. If you need abusable items to not be a cookie cutter and be effective, you are probabilly doing something wrong, either that or your defintion of what is needed to be effective is closer to optimized, powergaming, munchkin them mine.


Flute of the Satyr: Use to allow everyone to shift two as a 1/encounter item use. Now it allows everyone to shift 2 as a 1/day Item daily use. This moves it from somewhat useful to absolutely worthless 99% of the time as having everyone shift 2 is not worth the precious resource of an item daily use.

It is not absolutely worthless, as that is alot of shifting and if you are in close quarters, it can provide alot of a benefit, especially if there are some rogue's in the party looking for flanking. Maybe it does not meet your defintion of useful, but seeing as it can set up flanking and help ranged characters break from melee easier, it is not useless.
Windrise Ports Regional Benefit: Use to allow you to multiclass twice instead of only once. This allowed for some builds that involved one of the specialty weapon MCs to be possible without totally gimping the char if they wanted to also MC into something else.

Taking a speciality weapon MC did not "totally gimp" your character in any way. fine you wuold not be able to take a scond multiclass, but that does not Gimp him.
It required the use of two feats to utilize and was only interesting to people with builds that required or benefited from multiclassing.

and the ones that benefited benefited to well.
Now it adds one skill to your class list, not even granting training in it as many of the other backgrounds do.

Most do not give skill training, most just add it to your class list
Multiclassing twice is not excessive

Yes, yes it is.

Player #1: "I decided for this character, I'm going to do something different... I want to be versatile and well-rounded."

Player #2: (snipped for hilarity)


Alexandra, I have the flu.  That laughing fit could've killed me.  My daughter would've had to hunt you down for revenge "Kill Bill" style.  In other words, remember words can hurt.


Tell me about it. I got an Oxford English Dictionary thrown at me once! Left a mark, i tells ya.
I don't understand the OP definitions of a versatile and well-rounded character.


I understand it completely.  Wizards just nerfed his favorite exploit and now he's furious.

Celebrate our differences.

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