[Archetype]: Stax - because some of us want to play by ourselves

38 posts / 0 new
Last post

What is Stax?


‘Stax’ is the affectionate title given to one of legacy’s most popular lockdown/prison decks; we’re the tortoise in the great MTG race, and we will win it slowly, steadily, and in our own time. The basic premise is to generate an unfair advantage by blanking early plays, attacking their mana, and, finally, clenching complete board dominance with smokestack and recursion. Other primers and stax players have described the deck as racing for a higher permanent count, and that’s a good way of looking at it; the more things a stax deck has on the board, the better shape it’s in. Our concept is simple: Stop the opponent from doing anything, but the brewing and piloting of a successful stax deck is anything but.


[b]Colors?[/b]


For most decks, there is at least one color you are required to play, but stax is unique in that its staples are all artifacts and colorless mana-generators. White is by far the most popular color because of armageddon, and it would be negligent of me to try and sell legacy newcomers on the idea that playing non-white stax is either popular or the best way to go, but the fact remains that non-white or Wx stax can be built quite viably and quite well. One of the reasons I take such pleasure in playing stax, after all, is the massive amount of design space the shell gives us, and I encourage anyone who fancies themselves an MTG brewmaster to experiment with wide abandon.


[b]The Mana[/b]


Show
A solid manabase is critical for any deck that expects to perform in a developed legacy metagame, but, for stax, it’s even more important than usual. Many control decks are designed to create a hostile environment for the opponent, but we’re playing an entirely different breed of control: We make the environment hostile for everyone, including ourselves. What this means is we have to create a manabase that can withstand the punishment of our own trinisphere and make it through wasteland attacks from our enemy.

2-4 ancient tomb: Usually a 4 of but not always. We stabilize at low life, so be mindful in your playtests and keep track of how quickly you’re able to shut down combat. You should try to tweak the tomb count so that you won’t find yourself stabilizing below 6 life on a regular basis…there are few worse feelings than fighting for and achieving board control only to eat a lightning helix and lose.


2-4 city of traitors: They’re not as good in the early game, but the drawback is minimized by our crucibles, and, in the lategame, you really don’t want to be touching those tombs.


3-4 wasteland: Mana denial is the name of the game, so waste to your heart’s content!


2-4 mox diamond: If it has ‘mox’ in the title, you know it has to be a bit broken. It’s free, it gives us the explosive start we crave, and we can replay the lost land from a crucible.


0-3 mishra's factory: Manlands are nice, and so are recurring threats. We sometimes have problems dealing 20 damage after establishing a lock, and you don’t want to give the enemy time to break through, so it’s nice to have a card that can win you the game or tap for mana.  


0-3 flagstones of trokair: This is one of the best reasons to play white; it lives through a wasteland, it’s pretty broken with smokestack/crucible, and it’s a blast with armageddon. The only reason I recommend 3 rather than 4 is the fact that it’s legendary.


0-2 academy ruins: This little guy has gotten me out of more than one tight corner. Dredge can sometimes play around graveyard hate, but there’s no way it can live through a crypt recursion every time it starts to develop. You can also use it to crank up a smokestack, ditch it, and replay at 0…there are any number of other shenanigans as well. This is not necessarily a card that will be useful every time you see it, but it’s definitely worth 2 spaces if you’re playing blue.

3-4 crucible of worlds: This is an auto-include; no ifs, ands, buts, complaints, or contentions; without this card, our deck no longer functions. We recur wastelands, maximize our smokestack, replay our citys, and survive enemy wastelands with this card. The deck may be named for the stack, but it runs on the might of the crucible.  


0-4 metalworker: Broken acceleration on a stick! What more is there to say? The worker was banned until relatively recently, and there’s not much doubt why; if you have more brown cards than colored ones, he’s definitely worth including.


[u]The Lock Pieces[/u]


Show
Virtually everything in a well-made stax deck will either be mana or a lock component. Ideally, you want to blank every card in their hand, halt combat, choke their manabase, and beatdown with utility guys (or a singleton giant) until they die or concede. In order to do that, you need a wide variety of tools.

2-4 chalice of the void: Pretty much every stax list for me starts with 4 chalice; it’s an amazing tool, and, on the play, you can easily throw it out on the first turn and make certain that your opponent won’t play that wild nacatl and ruin your plans. Many decks in the format depend on the muscle of their 1 and 2 drops, so you can hurt almost any deck with an early chalice and completely eviscerate others.


2-4 trinisphere: This is a card which needs little introduction to anyone familiar with the deck. Stax’ dominance in vintage caused it to be restricted in T1, and, although not quite as relevant in a format where black lotus is not a concern, trini definitely earns its slot here. You can sometimes play it on the first turn off of a mox and a tomb (though you shouldn’t rely on that), and you can reliably play it early enough to make it hurt. I play 3; it’s good for flavor, and it seems to treat me well. The argument for 4 is compelling: This is a key card in our deck, but the fact that a second sphere won’t stack with the first makes drawing sphere #2 a really abysmal use of our precious draw phase.


2-4 smokestack: Here she is, the card for which our deck is named. I usually end up with 4 of them because they really are that good. It’s a very unfair card since the enemy is always going to lose more permanents than we are, and crucible of worlds with smokestack set at 1 generates +1 card advantage every single turn without fail. This card tests your proficiency with the deck, and correct smokestack manipulation is not an exact science; the object of the game is to force them to sacrifice everything on the board, so if you look across the table and see 4 permanents to your 7, crank it up even if it hurts. If you can clear the board underneath a trinisphere, there’s virtually no way for them to recover. Smoking may be bad for you, but all the cool kids are doing it!


0-4 sphere of resistance: An old staple for artifact/smokestack based control that we can easily play on the first turn. It can sting to turn 1 a sphere and then eat a wasteland, but the number of times it hurts pales in comparison to the number of times it helps. This card seems to be sliding into disfavor as time goes on, but it’s definitely far from irrelevant.


0-2 thorn of amethyst: I wouldn’t suggest maindecking thorns in legacy unless your meta is crawling with combo, but 2 in the sideboard is definitely a fine idea. Our match against ANT, reanimator, and other fast combo decks is already really good, but there’s no harm in boarding out creature hate for victory insurance.


0-4 tangle wire: One of my personal favorites, tangle wire attacks their mana and works to keep creatures from attacking. It’s an inherently unfair card since the enemy has to tap down once more than we do, and TW serves as a spare permanent that taps to itself or feeds a smokestack. Not only that, any kind of recursion can often make this card all but unbeatable.


0-4 ghostly prison: This is yet another reason white is a popular choice for this deck. Our favorite phase is the upkeep since it’s when we get profit from our smokestacks and tangle wires, but our least favorite phase is definitely combat. The only way out of the wilderness is to keep them from entering the red zone, and prison/prop definitely helps us get there.


0-4 ensnaring bridge: Progenitus and other gigantic cheat targets can never attack as long as this is in play, and the fact that we’re going to be playing a permanent almost every single turn means that we empty our hand quickly enough to stop goyf as well. When played alongside bottled cloister, we can develop a hard lock on opposing combat and draw a ton of cards at the same time. Not only that, blue mages can use tezzy to dig it out when needed, and, unlike ghostly prison, it doesn’t discriminate based on color.


0-4 magus of the tabernacle: Easily one of the best creatures for a deck like this. I’ve playtested with the original tabernacle, and, although it’s certainly not bad, I honestly believe its 80 cent cousin Magus is actually better for legacy. The reasoning is simple: His backside is 6, so he’s a virtually indestructible blocker as well as a threat to their manabase. Not only that, he swings, so we can use him to win the game after shutting down the opposition, and all for the low low price of per turn.


0-4 lodestone golem: He’s a little tough to evaluate in legacy since he dies to removal, but he’s been rightly called ‘clock and lock’, and I definitely think he deserves respect and a mention in this primer. More aggressive versions of this deck will like him a lot more than slower versions, but trading for most threats, bashing for 5, and making them work to get anything on the board are all points in his favor.


0-2 the tabernacle at pendrell vale: Tabernacle is one of the best control cards ever printed and even though I advocate magus in legacy stax, there’s certainly nothing wrong with maindecking or sideboarding 1-2 tabernacles. You can replay them out of a crucible, and, unlike magus, they don’t have an inherent tax to them.


0-4 moat: Another legends exclusive that will cost you a pretty penny, but it’s definitely worth it if you plan on finishing with fliers. Tarmogoyf looks quite a bit less scary when shaking his fist at you from the wrong side of a moat, and the fact that most of legacy’s key players don’t fly makes this one of the best options for closing down the attack step.


0-3 maze of ith: Yet another good combat trick, maze holds back virtually every creature in legacy outside of goose and the multi-headed terror. Don’t play it in a land slot, obviously, but it’s still technically a land, so it casts for free, plays from a crucible, and helps you get your mox diamond out. We’re very high on playables with only 75-76 slots, so it can be difficult to squeeze everything we want into our deck, but I believe maze is one of the most underrated stax cards out there.


[b]The Finishers[/b]


Show
We’ve talked about slowing the game to a crawl, but closing down the board is only half the battle (well…OK…for us it’s 90% of the battle); we’ve got to be able to end this thing. I’ve often been known to say that it doesn’t matter how you deal 20 damage in stax just as long as you have the hypothetical ability to do so, but there are definitely more efficient methods of winning than metalworker beatdown. I will state for the record, however, that one should definitely not have too many of these guys in the maindeck; our heart and soul are lock components, the finisher is somewhat arbitrary (though far from irrelevant).

0-2 Karn, silver golem: I had to put karn first on this list; he’s the classic artifact control finisher. He might be slightly outdated, but he’s definitely not irrelevant. Karn fits in any build, transforms lock pieces into threats, and bashes well enough in his own rite, and, hey, in the mirror you can use him to eat enemy moxen (profit!).


0-2 baneslayer angel: Stax has the distinction of being the only deck in legacy to commonly play with creature-creep’s postergal BSA. What’s there to say about her? She bashes, gains back life lost to tombs, has synergy with moat, kills virtually everything in legacy, and does it all wearing nothing but a sheet, a leotard, and knee pads. It’s never a bad time to slay some bane!


0-2 Elspeth, knight-errant: Even though mystical tutor is no longer with us (R.I.P.), there is still at least one mysterious hooded woman in legacy ready to win you some games. Much like baneslayer, I don’t think there are too many people who need to be reminded of  Elspeth’s merit, but I can go into a quick rundown of the reasons I sometimes think about moving to Massachusetts and marrying her: She makes dudes who either bash or feed smokestack, puts the enemy on a short clock, and can make all of our stuff immune to mass removal (which, by the way, is the one thing that really kills us…we basically scoop to pernicious deed). If you haven’t fallen in love with Ellie by now, you should get to know her; she’s a lovely lady.


0-2 Tezzeret the seeker: Tezzy is very good for us; our colorless manabase doesn’t always want to find UU for him, but he helps you clench a victory in any number of ways. First, he helps beat inconsistency problems which many pro players have observed in stax; you drop him, tutor for ensnaring bridge, crucible of worlds, smokestack, bottled cloister, lodestone golem, or whatever you need, and I added a single pithing needle maindeck in order to stop unforeseen threats even in game 1. He’s not an explosive finisher in the same way Elspeth, BSA, or Karn are, but he can definitely end the game with 5/5 artifact beatdowns, and his versatility is unmatched by the other three.


0-2 Jace, the mind sculptor: Much like baneslayer, he’s an allstar in standard that sees very little play in legacy. Stax, however can afford to throw around four drops since we’re built to play long games and generate unfair amounts of mana. Not only that, he’s a draw engine which is something we desperately need. One of the biggest problems I’ve had with stax is our huge dependency on the draw phase for the cards we so desperately need to see, and Jace mitigates that issue as well as milling them out once board dominance is achieved. I definitely wouldn’t call him an ‘established’ stax card at this point, but I do think he deserves to make it onto the suggestions list.


[b]Honorable Mention[/b]


Show
Goblin f*cking welder!: He’s my favorite all time stax card and my second favorite card ever printed (first is counterspell). There are two major drawbacks that have made me abandon my legacy experimentations with him: First, he dies to removal, second, he’s a onedrop and interfering with chalice at 1 is never a good idea. Regardless, I absolutely love the welder; if he gets in there with 2 tangle wire, there’s basically no way for your opponent to get out from under it, and the brokenness with cranking smokestack to 3, welding it out at the end of your opponent’s turn, and welding it in on your turn is obvious enough. The number of amazingly powerful moves you can pull with welder is limited only by your imagination and the number of artifacts in your deck; as LSV has said, he basically taps for 3 mana.

[b]Putting it all together: Decklists[/b]


Show
First I’ll show a stock geddon stax list; this is the most established version of the deck, and it’s the one that should be recommended for new players or players interested in seeing how a ‘normal’ stax deck is built. Like I said in the beginning, I encourage brewing with stax because we’re so high on playables, but, in the real world, this is the version with tangible results:

Stax White by Jeremy Pinter:


4 ancient tomb
4 city of traitors
3 flagstones of trokair
1 karakas
3 mishra's factory
4 wasteland
6 plains
4 mox diamond

4 magus of the tabernacle

3 trinisphere
4 chalice of the void
4 crucible of worlds
4 smokestack
4 ghostly prison
2 oblivion ring
2 Elspeth, knight-errant
4 Armageddon


SB (side note: No graveyard hate, Jeremy?)


1 decree of justice
1 humility
3 suppression field
2 defense grid
1 mindslaver
2 powder keg
1 zuran orb
1 academy ruins
2 Gideon jura


Now is the time for shameless self-promotion; I’ve been tooling and tweaking around with this deck for the better part of a year, and it’s still not perfect, but here’s the current list:


Tundrarett stax by MoriVictus:


4 tundra
4 flooded strand
1 hallowed fountain
1 plains
1 island
3 city of traitors
3 ancient tomb
3 wasteland
2 academy ruins
2 mox diamond


2 metalworker
3 magus of the tabernacle


4 chalice of the void
3 trinisphere
4 tangle wire
4 smokestack
3 crucible of worlds
4 bottled cloister
4 ensnaring bridge
1 pithing needle
2 tezzeret the seeker
2 jace, the mind sculptor


SB


1 crucible of worlds
2 oblivion ring
1 baneslayer angel
1 elspeth, knight-errant
2 Armageddon
2 tormod's crypt
2 thorn of amethyst
2 hydroblast
2 aura of silence


 


 


 


 


 



(content removed)
Suggestions? 
(content removed)
Your list looks ok Mori. I'd have to test it to look for the holes. Have you considered something like Faerie Mechanist and maybe even Master Transmuter as sort of a Welder effect?

As for a list, this is one that I am working on and its actually been quite brutal in testing. It does start to blur the line between Chalice Aggro and Stax (Aggro Stax maybe?), but I've seen that not many decks can survive with Smokestack set at 2 for the entire game.


Elf Stax
Land/Mana: 24
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
1 Dryad Arbor
11 Forest

Lock Pieces: 12
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Smokestack

Elves: 15
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Imperious Perfect
2 Nissa's Chosen
1 Elvish Champion
 
Win: 9
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus
4 Nissa Revane

Sideboard
4 Krosan Grip
11 other stuff (still in flux)
 
One of the things I've learned about this deck is like the Green Chalice Aggro variant is that its consistency is better. I haven't gotten as many bad hands with this and needed to mulligan. Having Natural Order is also a great way to end the game quickly in case bad stuff happens.  Nissa has actually tested pretty well being the pseudo token generator as well as the Wellwisher effect can keep you alive after burning yourself so much with Tomb. Her ultimate is actually pretty easy to reach in this kind of shell and ends the game the turn after it goes off. I'm still not totally sure about the sideboard. Currently the 11 slots are occupied by Equipment and stuff to convert the deck to Chalice Aggro and speed the game up considerably. I may nix that idea and move on to try something else, but I need more testing with other matchups. Maybe Choke, Thorn of Amethyst, and Tormod's Crypt in their place?
My Trade Thread Control capabilities are in all the colors. The difference is in the way they say no.
I've piddled around with master transmuter, and I enjoyed it quite a bit, but as soon as new jace got printed, I knew he was a better four drop for the deck because he helps make it consistent and win you the game. Transmuter with tangle wires can be a pretty serious beast, and the ability to throw things in and out of play no matter what chalice is set at is pretty nice too, but transmuter is one of those cards that counts as 'cute' but not necessary. 

As for your deck, the 4 mana elves don't like the chalice at all, and you really don't want to clog up your first turn options since, in an ideal world, you want to go Tomb-chalice 1, pass, land - trinisphere, pass as often as possible. Without crucible and wasteland, I don't feel like you're playing stax anymore...especially if you want to go for a full suite of CoTs. The only reason you can get away with a CoT to turn 1 your chalice is that you can turn 2 the crucible, and wasteland...well...you like wasting lands. I feel like your version really wants lodestone golem and lotus cobra because you're trying to get in there and beatdown quickly, and I don't think 8 lock pieces plus smokestack are going to slow the game down enough for Nissa to get there. Also, even though you reliably mulligan to early mana more resiliently than many builds, you don't draw cards, so it's still got the consistency issues prevalent in stax builds. All in all, I like the idea, but it seems too elfy and not quite staxy enough to warrant all of the slots spent on lock components and mana generation. I feel like it's caught between two strategies.  
(content removed)
The wasteland and crucible was actually something I ran originally. I ended up not liking it as much since early threats that got through could still pose a problem for green due to its lack of removal. One of the things I loved is green's insane amount of token generation. The token generation of the Imperious Perfects and Nissa actually served a similar function to Crucible + Wasteland since you could just sit there and make tokens to sac instead of the lands. In addition chump blockers served a similar purpose to stall here so I didn't worry nearly as much about drawing cards. I've also had no problems ramping up the Smokestack to higher numbers here as well due to the number of permanents I generate. Status quo is incredibly easy for me to maintain while my opponent is easily sacrificing 2-3 permanents a turn (and I've kept this going for several turns). I've actually thought about cutting Elvish Spirit Guides and replacing them with Thorn of Amethyst. As for the one mana elves, I have occasionally had issues with it, but the pros of running them is higher than the lack of synergy with chalice. Hopefully I'll have firmer testing results against other opponents soon.

The green variant is definitely not as slow as other builds. It does not feel at all like Green Chalice Aggro and definitely feels somewhat different than the other versions of STAX.
My Trade Thread Control capabilities are in all the colors. The difference is in the way they say no.
As soon as you said token gen, it dawned on me: The perfect card for green stax is easily awakening zone. It's a three drop, so it fits with the chalice plan and the curve, it's a permanent in its own rite, it gives you chumps to block with in order to keep goyf from killing you, it accels nicely, and it puts dorks on the board to feed your smokestack. With AZ and crucible, you can set the stack at TWO and never actually lose anything...that's some serious nastysauce. 
(content removed)
I seriously forgot about Awakening Zone. I'll definitely look into acquiring some of those as well work on the list more.

Edit: Worked on this briefly, so this is a rough idea

 
Green Stax
Land/Mana: 24
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
10 Forest

Lock Pieces: 15
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Smokestack
3 Crucible of Worlds

Token Generators: 16
4 Awakening Zone
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Spawnwrithe

Flex slots: 5
3 Nissa Revane
2 Nissa's Chosen

Sideboard
4 Krosan Grip
4 Choke
4 Tormod's Crypt
3 to be determined

Flex slots are still things in question. It definitely plays differently and seems closer to the traditional STAX deck.  
My Trade Thread Control capabilities are in all the colors. The difference is in the way they say no.
There seem to be some interesting things to use in the Green version when M11 is released. 

Primeval Titan and Mitotic Slime look like good creature candidates for this. They are pretty high on the curve though so I'm not too sure.
My Trade Thread Control capabilities are in all the colors. The difference is in the way they say no.
Sorry I haven't been responding, I was away for a week. As to your list, it's definitely missing harmonize; drawing cards is something I advocate in a big way, and when you need to find diversity in your cards as well as consistency (as you do with stax) it's pretty critical to kicking this deck up a notch. 

Chrome mox is good, and it's probably a good call for this build, but I like diamond because it reuses lands. Combat is not your friend here...I think you need to figure out how to either (a) splash ghostly prison (or propaganda) or (b) throw in ensnaring bridge. Maze of ith works too, but it's kind of expensive, and it's not nearly as wide a net. Basically, you just need some kind of way to sweep/clog the board which I'm not seeing. With green, you might be able to get away with a bit more mana accel and just going crazy with sphere of resistance.

Really, the problem I see is that your deck works really well if you can get smokestack established because it has a permanent-generating capacity beyond any other build I've seen, but, unfortunately, you need a way to get smokestack on the board to make it count, so you either need to draw or tutor for it.

Edit: Tangle wire. You need to find some slots for it because, just like stack, tangle wire exploits your higher permanent count versus their (presumably) lower one. You've got a lot of ways to make permanents for free/cheap, so I think you should use them. If you can splash, get some savannas in there and drop a world queller as your finisher.  
(content removed)
Thanks for the comments Mori. I was looking at Sun Tower, as someone suggested to get a few ideas. It gave me an out to the card quality problem in Sylvan Library, which functions as a pseudo-top.

So here are the latest changes

Green Stax
Land/Mana: 24
4 Chrome Mox
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Wasteland
10 Forest

Lock Pieces: 17
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Smokestack
3 Crucible of Worlds
2 Tangle Wire

Token Generators: 12
4 Awakening Zone
4 Imperious Perfect
2 Garruk Wildspeaker
2 Spawnwrithe

Card selection and Ramp: 7
4 Sylvan Library
3 Wood Elves 

Sideboard
4 Krosan Grip
3 Choke
3 Tormod's Crypt
4 Natural Order
1 Progenitus

I cut down a bit on the token generation, which was possibly a little excessive, which freed up some room for Tangle Wire. The Wood Elves slot will probably become something else or move them back change them back as Garruks and Spawnwrithe or to Harmonize.
My Trade Thread Control capabilities are in all the colors. The difference is in the way they say no.
Umm how about Grim Monolith?
Grim should probably make the list somewhere; I'm just waiting until I have results (either personal or from the greater tournament community) so that I can write more comprehensively on recommended numbers, specific uses, what decks should/shouldn't use it, what to play along side it, and, you know, everything else. Grim is clearly busted, but I don't think we've quite figured out what to do with it yet, so I'm holding off a grim subsection until I can write on it with some kind of authority (I've actually played with almost every card I've listed and recommended...not true with grim though I've used it twice in playtests)

Edit: It should also be noted that while grim is fun, it hasn't been all that exciting. The 'awesome' move I pulled was a turn 1 crucible... 
(content removed)
Exalted Angel > BSA, in my experience. That extra swing takes four turns to level out, at which point it shouldn't really matter.
The Pony Co. Because none of us are as loving as all of us.
Contact info
In case contacting me over the forums is not possible for some reason or another, my email is morten.c.k.olsen@gmail.com. Please state who you are, because I will most likely end up ignoring people that I don't know at least somewhat.
Alwaaaaays, I wanna be with you!
56287226 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
You clearly overestimate my cognitive skills by assuming that I could have accumulated that knowledge independently.
Okay, I'll be sure not to make that kind of assumption in the future. Now, if you'd like to go back to the main Magic General 'forum' page (that's the one that lists all the different 'discussion threads' that people have 'posted') from this page, just press the up-arrow key on your keyboard until you reach the top of the page, then click the link that says "Magic General"--it should be in fairly small font, just above the buttons labeled "Post Reply" and "Subscribe" and the box labeled "Jump Menu", but below the blue link labeled "Preferences". It'll be in a line with a number of other small-font links with different names. From the 'forum' page you will be able to select another 'thread' to view; 'threads' that people have 'posted' to since you last looked at them will have their names listed in bold font and have the number of unread replies listed just to the right of the name. If you click that unread replies number, it will take you right to the last reply you viewed in the 'thread' so that you can continue reading all the new replies from there. To get back to the main Magic General 'forum' page, just repeat the process from the previous paragraph--don't worry if you're on a different page, all 'thread' pages will have the same basic layout, so it should work exactly the same on any page in the Magic General 'forum'.\ And remember, if you accidentally click on the wrong link and find yourself on a page you're not familiar with, there's no need to panic; you can always press the 'back' button in your browser to go back to whatever you were looking at before. It should be on the left-hand side near the top of the screen, just below the menu bar, and will probably have a picture of some kind of arrow pointing to the left on it. Hope that helps!
56957928 wrote:
56914748 wrote:
The explanation given was that since land cards represent mystical bonds to far-off places rather than actual tangible things like creatures and other permanents, a person might have more than one memory of an area, or different mages could forge a bond to different parts of a place, etc. and that simply being a unique location doesn't necessarily mean that a land card has to be legendary.
"I remember my days as a schoolboy at the Tolarian Academy..." "Really? I went there too-" "Wait don't- Well ****, there goes my childhood."
56816728 wrote:
I was clearly wrong about Dragon_Whelp, he clearly is a jerk.
57471038 wrote:
Allow me to extrapolate—regular game play, as defined by WotC, is tournament play. As such, Casual, EDH, Planechase, and all that other stuff is irregular Magic; if Magic at all. So the next time someone says Competitive Constructed decks are not the only decks that count in Constructed (Casual Constructed), then I can gleefully point to the definition set forth by WotC and say that Competitive Constructed is in deed the only ones that count, and that they are playing some irregular form of Magic.
56792158 wrote:
Dragon, just don't argue with Hovercraft. He's his own Legacy metagame.
57471038 wrote:
One with Nothing is the third iteration in an attempt to make Black Lotus fair: Black Lotus: That's too good, we need to tone it down. Lion's Eye Diamond: Dammit, players are still using it in a very broken manner! One with Nothing: Alright! We got it now.
Twin2;15476002 wrote:
What happened to the really fun cards? Well you see a long long time ago the earth was ruled by dinosaurs. They were big so not a lot of people went around hassling them. Then a giant meteorite struck the earth, good bye dinosaurs. But what if the dinosaurs weren't all destroyed? What if the impact of that meteorite created a parallel dimension where the dinosaurs continue to thrive and evolve into intelligent vicious aggressive beings? What if they found a way back? ....wait that's not what happened to the fun cards that's the intro to the mario brothers movie. Get those two confused all the time, my bad.
56981618 wrote:
It's a folllow-up on the Priceless Treasures, Deadly Perils idea. See, what happened was, you got the packs that the Eldrazi had already gotten to--the had annihilated everything but the land itself. In fall, expect to open some packs and find cards covered in goopy, black oil. It's all about the marketing angle, people.
Any thoughts on the viability of mono brown stax in Legacy?
Has anyone experimented with Crystal Ball here? I've heard from a few on the Source that it actually has been a godsend to the more controllish version of STAX since it smooths out draws.
My Trade Thread Control capabilities are in all the colors. The difference is in the way they say no.
Phyrexian Revoker is looking really good for mono brown stax. One of that decks biggest problems was vial. Now we can shut it off without antisynergy with chalice.

I'm excited. 
Hey,
I've been thinking of getting into Legacy recently, and I decided that STAX would be a competative, relitively cheap way to do so. I already have a prison deck, but a lot of the cards in it are banned(Sol Ring, Mana Vault, Tinker). So I was lloking for a legal Prison deck, and I came accross STAX.

My budget isn't very large, can't afford City of Traitors or Wasteland, so I was wondering how people felt about Ghost Quarter as a replacement for Wasteland, and what could replace City of Traitors.

Also, is there a reason people aren't playing with Winter Orb?
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
Show
but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
Show
97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
You don't say you want to play fo' cheap and then say you want to play StaxXx. 
@Budget:
You need a set of Wastelands to play Legacy. Sad but true. You won't regret getting them though; they're incredibly useful, moreso than Force of Will. And Ghost Quarter will just make people laugh, seeing as you only need 2-4 lands to be happily humming along in Legacy, and people typically pack that many basics or more. Crystal Vein could serve as a temp. replacement for City.
@Orb:
Not that good anymore, because people have too many outs, and decks are far more aggressive. 
You don't say you want to play fo' cheap and then say you want to play StaxXx. 
@Budget:
You need a set of Wastelands to play Legacy. Sad but true. You won't regret getting them though; they're incredibly useful, moreso than Force of Will. And Ghost Quarter will just make people laugh, seeing as you only need 2-4 lands to be happily humming along in Legacy, and people typically pack that many basics or more. Crystal Vein could serve as a temp. replacement for City.
@Orb:
Not that good anymore, because people have too many outs, and decks are far more aggressive. 

It's budget for me because, aside from the cities and Wastelands, I have all the other cards needed for it. I'll be able to drop about $60-$90 a month on this deck, so it's not all that bad, but I just wish that Ghost Quarter was better.

On Winter Orb:
What outs do decks have to winter orb? Is there something I'm not seeing?
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
Show
but where DID the other fork come from?
Show
Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
Show
97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
Well, to be honest, I'd advocate spending it elsewhere. This deck doesn't put up strong numbers and hasn't had it's number one problem solved: consistency. Buy Wastelands, but unless you want to build another deck reliant on Sol lands, don't buy cities. The only recent deck that put up numbers with any kind of a similar gameplan is the recent MUD deck featuring Welder, and that's hardly StaxXx.
Has anyone considered Humility as a budget Moat? It does the same thing in-game (Stopping attacks) with only a few differences and allows Elspeth, Knight-Errant to be an even better finisher than she already is. Might also work with Jitte.
The Pony Co. Because none of us are as loving as all of us.
Contact info
In case contacting me over the forums is not possible for some reason or another, my email is morten.c.k.olsen@gmail.com. Please state who you are, because I will most likely end up ignoring people that I don't know at least somewhat.
Alwaaaaays, I wanna be with you!
56287226 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
You clearly overestimate my cognitive skills by assuming that I could have accumulated that knowledge independently.
Okay, I'll be sure not to make that kind of assumption in the future. Now, if you'd like to go back to the main Magic General 'forum' page (that's the one that lists all the different 'discussion threads' that people have 'posted') from this page, just press the up-arrow key on your keyboard until you reach the top of the page, then click the link that says "Magic General"--it should be in fairly small font, just above the buttons labeled "Post Reply" and "Subscribe" and the box labeled "Jump Menu", but below the blue link labeled "Preferences". It'll be in a line with a number of other small-font links with different names. From the 'forum' page you will be able to select another 'thread' to view; 'threads' that people have 'posted' to since you last looked at them will have their names listed in bold font and have the number of unread replies listed just to the right of the name. If you click that unread replies number, it will take you right to the last reply you viewed in the 'thread' so that you can continue reading all the new replies from there. To get back to the main Magic General 'forum' page, just repeat the process from the previous paragraph--don't worry if you're on a different page, all 'thread' pages will have the same basic layout, so it should work exactly the same on any page in the Magic General 'forum'.\ And remember, if you accidentally click on the wrong link and find yourself on a page you're not familiar with, there's no need to panic; you can always press the 'back' button in your browser to go back to whatever you were looking at before. It should be on the left-hand side near the top of the screen, just below the menu bar, and will probably have a picture of some kind of arrow pointing to the left on it. Hope that helps!
56957928 wrote:
56914748 wrote:
The explanation given was that since land cards represent mystical bonds to far-off places rather than actual tangible things like creatures and other permanents, a person might have more than one memory of an area, or different mages could forge a bond to different parts of a place, etc. and that simply being a unique location doesn't necessarily mean that a land card has to be legendary.
"I remember my days as a schoolboy at the Tolarian Academy..." "Really? I went there too-" "Wait don't- Well ****, there goes my childhood."
56816728 wrote:
I was clearly wrong about Dragon_Whelp, he clearly is a jerk.
57471038 wrote:
Allow me to extrapolate—regular game play, as defined by WotC, is tournament play. As such, Casual, EDH, Planechase, and all that other stuff is irregular Magic; if Magic at all. So the next time someone says Competitive Constructed decks are not the only decks that count in Constructed (Casual Constructed), then I can gleefully point to the definition set forth by WotC and say that Competitive Constructed is in deed the only ones that count, and that they are playing some irregular form of Magic.
56792158 wrote:
Dragon, just don't argue with Hovercraft. He's his own Legacy metagame.
57471038 wrote:
One with Nothing is the third iteration in an attempt to make Black Lotus fair: Black Lotus: That's too good, we need to tone it down. Lion's Eye Diamond: Dammit, players are still using it in a very broken manner! One with Nothing: Alright! We got it now.
Twin2;15476002 wrote:
What happened to the really fun cards? Well you see a long long time ago the earth was ruled by dinosaurs. They were big so not a lot of people went around hassling them. Then a giant meteorite struck the earth, good bye dinosaurs. But what if the dinosaurs weren't all destroyed? What if the impact of that meteorite created a parallel dimension where the dinosaurs continue to thrive and evolve into intelligent vicious aggressive beings? What if they found a way back? ....wait that's not what happened to the fun cards that's the intro to the mario brothers movie. Get those two confused all the time, my bad.
56981618 wrote:
It's a folllow-up on the Priceless Treasures, Deadly Perils idea. See, what happened was, you got the packs that the Eldrazi had already gotten to--the had annihilated everything but the land itself. In fall, expect to open some packs and find cards covered in goopy, black oil. It's all about the marketing angle, people.
Has anyone considered Black stax?  With cards like Sinkhole and Bloodghast I'm not seeing a downside to this......I have been out of the metagame for years now but I am going to mill over a few ideas over the next few days.
No downside? Chalice of the Void?
The Pony Co. Because none of us are as loving as all of us.
Contact info
In case contacting me over the forums is not possible for some reason or another, my email is morten.c.k.olsen@gmail.com. Please state who you are, because I will most likely end up ignoring people that I don't know at least somewhat.
Alwaaaaays, I wanna be with you!
56287226 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
You clearly overestimate my cognitive skills by assuming that I could have accumulated that knowledge independently.
Okay, I'll be sure not to make that kind of assumption in the future. Now, if you'd like to go back to the main Magic General 'forum' page (that's the one that lists all the different 'discussion threads' that people have 'posted') from this page, just press the up-arrow key on your keyboard until you reach the top of the page, then click the link that says "Magic General"--it should be in fairly small font, just above the buttons labeled "Post Reply" and "Subscribe" and the box labeled "Jump Menu", but below the blue link labeled "Preferences". It'll be in a line with a number of other small-font links with different names. From the 'forum' page you will be able to select another 'thread' to view; 'threads' that people have 'posted' to since you last looked at them will have their names listed in bold font and have the number of unread replies listed just to the right of the name. If you click that unread replies number, it will take you right to the last reply you viewed in the 'thread' so that you can continue reading all the new replies from there. To get back to the main Magic General 'forum' page, just repeat the process from the previous paragraph--don't worry if you're on a different page, all 'thread' pages will have the same basic layout, so it should work exactly the same on any page in the Magic General 'forum'.\ And remember, if you accidentally click on the wrong link and find yourself on a page you're not familiar with, there's no need to panic; you can always press the 'back' button in your browser to go back to whatever you were looking at before. It should be on the left-hand side near the top of the screen, just below the menu bar, and will probably have a picture of some kind of arrow pointing to the left on it. Hope that helps!
56957928 wrote:
56914748 wrote:
The explanation given was that since land cards represent mystical bonds to far-off places rather than actual tangible things like creatures and other permanents, a person might have more than one memory of an area, or different mages could forge a bond to different parts of a place, etc. and that simply being a unique location doesn't necessarily mean that a land card has to be legendary.
"I remember my days as a schoolboy at the Tolarian Academy..." "Really? I went there too-" "Wait don't- Well ****, there goes my childhood."
56816728 wrote:
I was clearly wrong about Dragon_Whelp, he clearly is a jerk.
57471038 wrote:
Allow me to extrapolate—regular game play, as defined by WotC, is tournament play. As such, Casual, EDH, Planechase, and all that other stuff is irregular Magic; if Magic at all. So the next time someone says Competitive Constructed decks are not the only decks that count in Constructed (Casual Constructed), then I can gleefully point to the definition set forth by WotC and say that Competitive Constructed is in deed the only ones that count, and that they are playing some irregular form of Magic.
56792158 wrote:
Dragon, just don't argue with Hovercraft. He's his own Legacy metagame.
57471038 wrote:
One with Nothing is the third iteration in an attempt to make Black Lotus fair: Black Lotus: That's too good, we need to tone it down. Lion's Eye Diamond: Dammit, players are still using it in a very broken manner! One with Nothing: Alright! We got it now.
Twin2;15476002 wrote:
What happened to the really fun cards? Well you see a long long time ago the earth was ruled by dinosaurs. They were big so not a lot of people went around hassling them. Then a giant meteorite struck the earth, good bye dinosaurs. But what if the dinosaurs weren't all destroyed? What if the impact of that meteorite created a parallel dimension where the dinosaurs continue to thrive and evolve into intelligent vicious aggressive beings? What if they found a way back? ....wait that's not what happened to the fun cards that's the intro to the mario brothers movie. Get those two confused all the time, my bad.
56981618 wrote:
It's a folllow-up on the Priceless Treasures, Deadly Perils idea. See, what happened was, you got the packs that the Eldrazi had already gotten to--the had annihilated everything but the land itself. In fall, expect to open some packs and find cards covered in goopy, black oil. It's all about the marketing angle, people.
I think humility wont see play because the little dudes accumulate. What i dont understand is why people dont play magus of the moat , its the same card but with a body . And there is as much creature hate as there is permanent hate , so if i would make a deck with moat , il just buy magus and save myself 249$
Amidst the darkest ashes grow the strongest seeds. Life must die, and death must live. -Creed of Necromancy by Vanisher
It's not little dudes. Elspeth sends big fliers against the opponent and manlands retain their printed size.

As for the Maguc, he dies to bolt. 
The Pony Co. Because none of us are as loving as all of us.
Contact info
In case contacting me over the forums is not possible for some reason or another, my email is morten.c.k.olsen@gmail.com. Please state who you are, because I will most likely end up ignoring people that I don't know at least somewhat.
Alwaaaaays, I wanna be with you!
56287226 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
You clearly overestimate my cognitive skills by assuming that I could have accumulated that knowledge independently.
Okay, I'll be sure not to make that kind of assumption in the future. Now, if you'd like to go back to the main Magic General 'forum' page (that's the one that lists all the different 'discussion threads' that people have 'posted') from this page, just press the up-arrow key on your keyboard until you reach the top of the page, then click the link that says "Magic General"--it should be in fairly small font, just above the buttons labeled "Post Reply" and "Subscribe" and the box labeled "Jump Menu", but below the blue link labeled "Preferences". It'll be in a line with a number of other small-font links with different names. From the 'forum' page you will be able to select another 'thread' to view; 'threads' that people have 'posted' to since you last looked at them will have their names listed in bold font and have the number of unread replies listed just to the right of the name. If you click that unread replies number, it will take you right to the last reply you viewed in the 'thread' so that you can continue reading all the new replies from there. To get back to the main Magic General 'forum' page, just repeat the process from the previous paragraph--don't worry if you're on a different page, all 'thread' pages will have the same basic layout, so it should work exactly the same on any page in the Magic General 'forum'.\ And remember, if you accidentally click on the wrong link and find yourself on a page you're not familiar with, there's no need to panic; you can always press the 'back' button in your browser to go back to whatever you were looking at before. It should be on the left-hand side near the top of the screen, just below the menu bar, and will probably have a picture of some kind of arrow pointing to the left on it. Hope that helps!
56957928 wrote:
56914748 wrote:
The explanation given was that since land cards represent mystical bonds to far-off places rather than actual tangible things like creatures and other permanents, a person might have more than one memory of an area, or different mages could forge a bond to different parts of a place, etc. and that simply being a unique location doesn't necessarily mean that a land card has to be legendary.
"I remember my days as a schoolboy at the Tolarian Academy..." "Really? I went there too-" "Wait don't- Well ****, there goes my childhood."
56816728 wrote:
I was clearly wrong about Dragon_Whelp, he clearly is a jerk.
57471038 wrote:
Allow me to extrapolate—regular game play, as defined by WotC, is tournament play. As such, Casual, EDH, Planechase, and all that other stuff is irregular Magic; if Magic at all. So the next time someone says Competitive Constructed decks are not the only decks that count in Constructed (Casual Constructed), then I can gleefully point to the definition set forth by WotC and say that Competitive Constructed is in deed the only ones that count, and that they are playing some irregular form of Magic.
56792158 wrote:
Dragon, just don't argue with Hovercraft. He's his own Legacy metagame.
57471038 wrote:
One with Nothing is the third iteration in an attempt to make Black Lotus fair: Black Lotus: That's too good, we need to tone it down. Lion's Eye Diamond: Dammit, players are still using it in a very broken manner! One with Nothing: Alright! We got it now.
Twin2;15476002 wrote:
What happened to the really fun cards? Well you see a long long time ago the earth was ruled by dinosaurs. They were big so not a lot of people went around hassling them. Then a giant meteorite struck the earth, good bye dinosaurs. But what if the dinosaurs weren't all destroyed? What if the impact of that meteorite created a parallel dimension where the dinosaurs continue to thrive and evolve into intelligent vicious aggressive beings? What if they found a way back? ....wait that's not what happened to the fun cards that's the intro to the mario brothers movie. Get those two confused all the time, my bad.
56981618 wrote:
It's a folllow-up on the Priceless Treasures, Deadly Perils idea. See, what happened was, you got the packs that the Eldrazi had already gotten to--the had annihilated everything but the land itself. In fall, expect to open some packs and find cards covered in goopy, black oil. It's all about the marketing angle, people.
You're going to have to set it at 2 and Chalice doesn't touch Bloodghast's recursion, which works quite nicely with Tanglewire, Wastelands and Crucible combo and not to mention blacks nature of life for card draw which Stax desperately needs.
You go make it, then.

I doubt it'll be succesful. I just don't see it. There's too little that black can offer more than white, and too much the other way. 
The Pony Co. Because none of us are as loving as all of us.
Contact info
In case contacting me over the forums is not possible for some reason or another, my email is morten.c.k.olsen@gmail.com. Please state who you are, because I will most likely end up ignoring people that I don't know at least somewhat.
Alwaaaaays, I wanna be with you!
56287226 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
You clearly overestimate my cognitive skills by assuming that I could have accumulated that knowledge independently.
Okay, I'll be sure not to make that kind of assumption in the future. Now, if you'd like to go back to the main Magic General 'forum' page (that's the one that lists all the different 'discussion threads' that people have 'posted') from this page, just press the up-arrow key on your keyboard until you reach the top of the page, then click the link that says "Magic General"--it should be in fairly small font, just above the buttons labeled "Post Reply" and "Subscribe" and the box labeled "Jump Menu", but below the blue link labeled "Preferences". It'll be in a line with a number of other small-font links with different names. From the 'forum' page you will be able to select another 'thread' to view; 'threads' that people have 'posted' to since you last looked at them will have their names listed in bold font and have the number of unread replies listed just to the right of the name. If you click that unread replies number, it will take you right to the last reply you viewed in the 'thread' so that you can continue reading all the new replies from there. To get back to the main Magic General 'forum' page, just repeat the process from the previous paragraph--don't worry if you're on a different page, all 'thread' pages will have the same basic layout, so it should work exactly the same on any page in the Magic General 'forum'.\ And remember, if you accidentally click on the wrong link and find yourself on a page you're not familiar with, there's no need to panic; you can always press the 'back' button in your browser to go back to whatever you were looking at before. It should be on the left-hand side near the top of the screen, just below the menu bar, and will probably have a picture of some kind of arrow pointing to the left on it. Hope that helps!
56957928 wrote:
56914748 wrote:
The explanation given was that since land cards represent mystical bonds to far-off places rather than actual tangible things like creatures and other permanents, a person might have more than one memory of an area, or different mages could forge a bond to different parts of a place, etc. and that simply being a unique location doesn't necessarily mean that a land card has to be legendary.
"I remember my days as a schoolboy at the Tolarian Academy..." "Really? I went there too-" "Wait don't- Well ****, there goes my childhood."
56816728 wrote:
I was clearly wrong about Dragon_Whelp, he clearly is a jerk.
57471038 wrote:
Allow me to extrapolate—regular game play, as defined by WotC, is tournament play. As such, Casual, EDH, Planechase, and all that other stuff is irregular Magic; if Magic at all. So the next time someone says Competitive Constructed decks are not the only decks that count in Constructed (Casual Constructed), then I can gleefully point to the definition set forth by WotC and say that Competitive Constructed is in deed the only ones that count, and that they are playing some irregular form of Magic.
56792158 wrote:
Dragon, just don't argue with Hovercraft. He's his own Legacy metagame.
57471038 wrote:
One with Nothing is the third iteration in an attempt to make Black Lotus fair: Black Lotus: That's too good, we need to tone it down. Lion's Eye Diamond: Dammit, players are still using it in a very broken manner! One with Nothing: Alright! We got it now.
Twin2;15476002 wrote:
What happened to the really fun cards? Well you see a long long time ago the earth was ruled by dinosaurs. They were big so not a lot of people went around hassling them. Then a giant meteorite struck the earth, good bye dinosaurs. But what if the dinosaurs weren't all destroyed? What if the impact of that meteorite created a parallel dimension where the dinosaurs continue to thrive and evolve into intelligent vicious aggressive beings? What if they found a way back? ....wait that's not what happened to the fun cards that's the intro to the mario brothers movie. Get those two confused all the time, my bad.
56981618 wrote:
It's a folllow-up on the Priceless Treasures, Deadly Perils idea. See, what happened was, you got the packs that the Eldrazi had already gotten to--the had annihilated everything but the land itself. In fall, expect to open some packs and find cards covered in goopy, black oil. It's all about the marketing angle, people.
The big upside I can see right now would be card draw.  In white it is non existent and black causes you to sacrifice your life total at the expense of it.  A quote I have lived by in this game is your life total doesn't matter until you are at 0.

To each their own I guess but I will give it a try and hope to figure this out.  Everyone knows that Stax's big drawback is the fact that you are top decking every turn.

The point is to keep an advantage going the whole game, thus Sinkhole targets your opponent rather than holding off for a geddon and playing reset on your manabase too.  Bloodghast has a ton of synergy with staple cards of the deck and is a constant threat regardless of where he is.

Not to mention the plethora of draw cards black has. 
Sinkhole still messes with Chalice.

As for card draw for life, Stax is actually one of the few decks where the life actually matters. You see, between Ancient Tomb and trying to stabilise, it's gonna drop really, really fast. You need to stabilise, and that takes a bit. Not like Dragon Stompy where you usually do it on the first or second turn, and where your Tombs eventually become Mountains. Stax is just slower at that, so it needs to extend its life for as long as possible.
The Pony Co. Because none of us are as loving as all of us.
Contact info
In case contacting me over the forums is not possible for some reason or another, my email is morten.c.k.olsen@gmail.com. Please state who you are, because I will most likely end up ignoring people that I don't know at least somewhat.
Alwaaaaays, I wanna be with you!
56287226 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
You clearly overestimate my cognitive skills by assuming that I could have accumulated that knowledge independently.
Okay, I'll be sure not to make that kind of assumption in the future. Now, if you'd like to go back to the main Magic General 'forum' page (that's the one that lists all the different 'discussion threads' that people have 'posted') from this page, just press the up-arrow key on your keyboard until you reach the top of the page, then click the link that says "Magic General"--it should be in fairly small font, just above the buttons labeled "Post Reply" and "Subscribe" and the box labeled "Jump Menu", but below the blue link labeled "Preferences". It'll be in a line with a number of other small-font links with different names. From the 'forum' page you will be able to select another 'thread' to view; 'threads' that people have 'posted' to since you last looked at them will have their names listed in bold font and have the number of unread replies listed just to the right of the name. If you click that unread replies number, it will take you right to the last reply you viewed in the 'thread' so that you can continue reading all the new replies from there. To get back to the main Magic General 'forum' page, just repeat the process from the previous paragraph--don't worry if you're on a different page, all 'thread' pages will have the same basic layout, so it should work exactly the same on any page in the Magic General 'forum'.\ And remember, if you accidentally click on the wrong link and find yourself on a page you're not familiar with, there's no need to panic; you can always press the 'back' button in your browser to go back to whatever you were looking at before. It should be on the left-hand side near the top of the screen, just below the menu bar, and will probably have a picture of some kind of arrow pointing to the left on it. Hope that helps!
56957928 wrote:
56914748 wrote:
The explanation given was that since land cards represent mystical bonds to far-off places rather than actual tangible things like creatures and other permanents, a person might have more than one memory of an area, or different mages could forge a bond to different parts of a place, etc. and that simply being a unique location doesn't necessarily mean that a land card has to be legendary.
"I remember my days as a schoolboy at the Tolarian Academy..." "Really? I went there too-" "Wait don't- Well ****, there goes my childhood."
56816728 wrote:
I was clearly wrong about Dragon_Whelp, he clearly is a jerk.
57471038 wrote:
Allow me to extrapolate—regular game play, as defined by WotC, is tournament play. As such, Casual, EDH, Planechase, and all that other stuff is irregular Magic; if Magic at all. So the next time someone says Competitive Constructed decks are not the only decks that count in Constructed (Casual Constructed), then I can gleefully point to the definition set forth by WotC and say that Competitive Constructed is in deed the only ones that count, and that they are playing some irregular form of Magic.
56792158 wrote:
Dragon, just don't argue with Hovercraft. He's his own Legacy metagame.
57471038 wrote:
One with Nothing is the third iteration in an attempt to make Black Lotus fair: Black Lotus: That's too good, we need to tone it down. Lion's Eye Diamond: Dammit, players are still using it in a very broken manner! One with Nothing: Alright! We got it now.
Twin2;15476002 wrote:
What happened to the really fun cards? Well you see a long long time ago the earth was ruled by dinosaurs. They were big so not a lot of people went around hassling them. Then a giant meteorite struck the earth, good bye dinosaurs. But what if the dinosaurs weren't all destroyed? What if the impact of that meteorite created a parallel dimension where the dinosaurs continue to thrive and evolve into intelligent vicious aggressive beings? What if they found a way back? ....wait that's not what happened to the fun cards that's the intro to the mario brothers movie. Get those two confused all the time, my bad.
56981618 wrote:
It's a folllow-up on the Priceless Treasures, Deadly Perils idea. See, what happened was, you got the packs that the Eldrazi had already gotten to--the had annihilated everything but the land itself. In fall, expect to open some packs and find cards covered in goopy, black oil. It's all about the marketing angle, people.
It's not little dudes. Elspeth sends big fliers against the opponent and manlands retain their printed size.

As for the Maguc, he dies to bolt. 




Magus is a 2/6.  He isn't dying to a bolt.
It's not little dudes. Elspeth sends big fliers against the opponent and manlands retain their printed size.

As for the Maguc, he dies to bolt. 




Magus is a 2/6.  He isn't dying to a bolt.



Someone was suggesting Magus of the Moat.

Yeah, I know, boggles my mind too. 
The Pony Co. Because none of us are as loving as all of us.
Contact info
In case contacting me over the forums is not possible for some reason or another, my email is morten.c.k.olsen@gmail.com. Please state who you are, because I will most likely end up ignoring people that I don't know at least somewhat.
Alwaaaaays, I wanna be with you!
56287226 wrote:
58331438 wrote:
You clearly overestimate my cognitive skills by assuming that I could have accumulated that knowledge independently.
Okay, I'll be sure not to make that kind of assumption in the future. Now, if you'd like to go back to the main Magic General 'forum' page (that's the one that lists all the different 'discussion threads' that people have 'posted') from this page, just press the up-arrow key on your keyboard until you reach the top of the page, then click the link that says "Magic General"--it should be in fairly small font, just above the buttons labeled "Post Reply" and "Subscribe" and the box labeled "Jump Menu", but below the blue link labeled "Preferences". It'll be in a line with a number of other small-font links with different names. From the 'forum' page you will be able to select another 'thread' to view; 'threads' that people have 'posted' to since you last looked at them will have their names listed in bold font and have the number of unread replies listed just to the right of the name. If you click that unread replies number, it will take you right to the last reply you viewed in the 'thread' so that you can continue reading all the new replies from there. To get back to the main Magic General 'forum' page, just repeat the process from the previous paragraph--don't worry if you're on a different page, all 'thread' pages will have the same basic layout, so it should work exactly the same on any page in the Magic General 'forum'.\ And remember, if you accidentally click on the wrong link and find yourself on a page you're not familiar with, there's no need to panic; you can always press the 'back' button in your browser to go back to whatever you were looking at before. It should be on the left-hand side near the top of the screen, just below the menu bar, and will probably have a picture of some kind of arrow pointing to the left on it. Hope that helps!
56957928 wrote:
56914748 wrote:
The explanation given was that since land cards represent mystical bonds to far-off places rather than actual tangible things like creatures and other permanents, a person might have more than one memory of an area, or different mages could forge a bond to different parts of a place, etc. and that simply being a unique location doesn't necessarily mean that a land card has to be legendary.
"I remember my days as a schoolboy at the Tolarian Academy..." "Really? I went there too-" "Wait don't- Well ****, there goes my childhood."
56816728 wrote:
I was clearly wrong about Dragon_Whelp, he clearly is a jerk.
57471038 wrote:
Allow me to extrapolate—regular game play, as defined by WotC, is tournament play. As such, Casual, EDH, Planechase, and all that other stuff is irregular Magic; if Magic at all. So the next time someone says Competitive Constructed decks are not the only decks that count in Constructed (Casual Constructed), then I can gleefully point to the definition set forth by WotC and say that Competitive Constructed is in deed the only ones that count, and that they are playing some irregular form of Magic.
56792158 wrote:
Dragon, just don't argue with Hovercraft. He's his own Legacy metagame.
57471038 wrote:
One with Nothing is the third iteration in an attempt to make Black Lotus fair: Black Lotus: That's too good, we need to tone it down. Lion's Eye Diamond: Dammit, players are still using it in a very broken manner! One with Nothing: Alright! We got it now.
Twin2;15476002 wrote:
What happened to the really fun cards? Well you see a long long time ago the earth was ruled by dinosaurs. They were big so not a lot of people went around hassling them. Then a giant meteorite struck the earth, good bye dinosaurs. But what if the dinosaurs weren't all destroyed? What if the impact of that meteorite created a parallel dimension where the dinosaurs continue to thrive and evolve into intelligent vicious aggressive beings? What if they found a way back? ....wait that's not what happened to the fun cards that's the intro to the mario brothers movie. Get those two confused all the time, my bad.
56981618 wrote:
It's a folllow-up on the Priceless Treasures, Deadly Perils idea. See, what happened was, you got the packs that the Eldrazi had already gotten to--the had annihilated everything but the land itself. In fall, expect to open some packs and find cards covered in goopy, black oil. It's all about the marketing angle, people.
So what about x4 Umbilicus? the abillity to make them lose an additional 2 life every turn or take another permanant off the field, not to mention to help bounce your own tanglewire if it's running low on fading counters. and use x4 Crystal vein for land. for that extra boost of 1 turn drops.

My issue with Ensnaring Bridge how do u use your finishers like karn or baneslayer when u have no cards in hand? i think ghostly prison mixed with magus of the tabernacle is a better suit.
I Love Stax always have, and this thread got me thinking what other way besides black, white, and blue variants I can use to abuse this deck, i was rummaging through my decks for ideas when i came across kai budde's wildfire decked it occured to me with the fast mana accleration, lock pieces with the addition of (Umbilicus I can reset my tangle wires or bounce my stax to save my own hide) + getting a Covetous Dragon or Karn, Silver Golem for artifact beat down with a slice of Wildfire to wipe the board and seal the deal. I honestly think that red is the best suit for stax. I present to you all

WILD STAX

Land/Mana: 34
4 Crystal Vein
 
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Gilded Lotus
2 Grim Monolith
2 Metalworker
3 Seething Song

11 Mountains

Lock Pieces: 17

Trinisphere
4 Tanglewire
Chalice of the Void
3 Umbilicus
4 Smokestack

Win: 9
4 Wildfire
4 Covetous Dragon
1 Karn, Silver Golem


With artifacts used for mana you won't need the usage of Crucible of Worlds, you'll have total board control and a flying 6/5 dragon who can survive a wildfire or Karn for beats Please let me know what u guys think and try it out!

There was a lot of talk about splashing green, has anyone been successful with a G/W build? Awakening Zone is amazing in the deck but I haven't justified main decking anything else yet. Want to try out Explore maybe
I think this deck wants some Sundial of the Infinite. Your upkeep, put the Stax triggers on the stack so that you put the counter on first, then end your turn before the sac trigger resolves. Eventually they deck themselves with absolutely no way to regain board position.
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
While that is crafty it's completely unnecessary and just adds complexity to an already good thing.
And it's said that youth's ,well only tragedy Is being unoriginal
89522235 wrote:
niche's solution to everything is always MOAR BLACK! "ok, my legacy mono black control deck is getting hated out by light of day..." "MOAR BLACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
It isn't complex. It's a powerful, easy to use synergy that can either win the game in two cards (which is never unecessary), or another out to make Stax one-sided (which is never unecessary). It doesn't add complexity, it adds a layer of redundancy and synergy.
Etiamnunc sto, etiamsi caelum ruat.
My Decks
Standard: BR Aggro Burn RDW Modern: Dragon Stompy Burn Fae Tempo Zoo Cherrios Legacy: Zoo Dragon Stompy Pauper: Slivers Landfall EDH: Sliver Overlord
1000th post on 2-1-10. 5000th post on 1-21-13.