7/06/2010 LI: "Axing Questions"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Limited Information, which goes live Tuesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
That equipement is kind of an insult given Trusty Machete.  I understand, and approve of, Counterspell -> Cancel.

But Trusty Machete -> Warlord's Axe?

Really?

Ugh.
I like the first few paragraphs of the article, where he says that with Core, you cant just level some guys and win, or play Spawn and win. Instead you have to fly over, figure out how to stay alive long enough, control the board for much longer, and think through many complex situations... etc.

Basically it sounds like he is saying Core is harder to play than a normal set. Yet isn't Core designed for new comers? That's a little confusing.

New to Magic? Start with our Beginners set, Magic 2011 - It's harder to play than our "Pro" sets!!!

o.0
98% of people use statistics in their sigs, or have used them in the past. If you are one of the 2% that haven't or don't, place this into your signature. New Magic Forums, Im'a let you finish, but the old Magic Forums were one of the greatest boards of all time!
The rules and complexity of the core set are meant to be easier than in expert sets. I don't recall seeing anything saying that the play decisions of the core set are meant to be easier, though.

Warlord's Axe is also somewhat disappointing given Vulshok Battlegear. But I guess I don't really mind - certain of the Mirrodin-block equipment were just too good, and I'd certainly include Vulshok Morningstar in that, so you certainly could include the Battlegear too.

The Vandal is particularly interesting given Warpriest of Thune. I'd thought that the conversion of Monk Realist -> Warpriest of Thune indicated Wizards were getting rid of mandatory potentially-undesirable ETB triggers, which would be very disappointing because the risk of such situations was always part of what you had to take into consideration playing such cards. But Manic Vandal does have the forced trigger, as Steve points out. Odd.
The Vandal is particularly interesting given Warpriest of Thune. I'd thought that the conversion of Monk Realist -> Warpriest of Thune indicated Wizards were getting rid of mandatory potentially-undesirable ETB triggers, which would be very disappointing because the risk of such situations was always part of what you had to take into consideration playing such cards. But Manic Vandal does have the forced trigger, as Steve points out. Odd.



Then you thought wrong.  White is orderly and wants to be in control, but Red is chaotic and doesn't care what it smashes, so long as it gets to smash something.  Red wouldn't lose mandatory CIPs if every other colour did, for the same reason it's the home of all the spells that backlash on their caster.

Also, nobody's mentioned that Manic Vandal is just a colour-shifted Viridian Shaman.

Wow, what a boring card. :/
I like the art though. As for its usefulness... I'm still getting the hang of limited in general, so I can't really say.
Whut

On a side note, they better reprint Burning Inquiry so I can draft my Megrim deck. Especially now that Megrim is a two-drop...
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Pac-Man
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Worldprism
Quotes
57051078 wrote:
I just love how focused the YMtC community is.
56901828 wrote:
That's what I love about posting on these forums. Everyone's an expert(except for me).
57031358 wrote:
really no need to be so bitchy.
58021268 wrote:
@Edacade: Awright kid you go on ahead and do your thing and don't let anyone tell you different y'hear
58335208 wrote:
City of Asymmetrical Beings Land :T:, sacrifice a creature: Destroy target creature with the same converted mana cost as the sacrificed creature.
56957928 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
Might I just interject that making this a meme is the worst idea in magic in my opinion. It is too overpowered. It encourages cheating it in play. Essentially 99/100 times it is cheated in play instead of hardcast. Not only that, but you essentially win when it comes into play.
74943291 wrote:
82512575 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Make five-color hybrid tribal instant with buyback, kicker, cycling, card draw, token production, a steal effect, alternate casting cost and landfall that embodies the love that your mom and I share.
I think you just killed all chances of my card being elegant. Ardency :1mana::symwu::symbr: Tribal Instant - Soldier You may have target opponent gain control of 3 permanents you control rather than pay ~'s mana cost. As an additional cost to cast ~, choose two creatures you control, and sacrifice the rest. If you control a soldier, you can't sacrifice permanents this turn. Landfall - If you had a land enter the battlefield under your control this turn, instead choose 4 creatures. Kicker You get an emblem with "As long as you control both chosen creatures, they have protection from everything." If ~ was kicked, creatures you control get +1/+1 for each creature card in your graveyard until end of turn. Cycling :2mana: When you cycle ~, put two 2/2 Soldier creatures onto the battlefield. Would this EVER fit on a card?~
Aside from a few wording mishaps (should say "each chosen creature" because it's not necessarily two) this is nice. Very simple and elegant. I like the alternate cost a lot, and the kicker goes nicely with the sacrifice. However, the cycling seems a bit powerful (4 power and a card for 3? Cycling is supposed be bad. 8/10 EDIT: Just looked up "ardency". Lol.
58347268 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
58325628 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I'm immortalized too as long as no one deletes this post!
But in the shadow of the great one lurked many who sought to partake of his eternal glory.
Since when am I "many"?
You're a whole damn city.
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Ahem.
58021268 wrote:
Vivisect Sorcery As an additional cost to cast Vivisect, sacrifice a creature. Draw three cards. "For the sake of humanity," the surgeon whispered. The knife had never felt heavier in his hand.
I don't think a world that sacrifices so much would want to stop the making of children .
Vivisect =/= vasectomy
Now I just feel silly.
56287226 wrote:
I read over two hundred webcomics on a regular basis. "Terrible" doesn't even begin to describe me.
70246459 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I think that this is the first wizards-community thread that actually made me laugh out loud. Maraxas, I love you.
IMAGE(http://www.free-smiley-faces.de/free-animated-smileys_Smileys-animiert-kostenlos/free-animated-smiley-love_smiley-herz-animiert-kostenlos_250x250.gif)
58347268 wrote:
batman is a jerk in all of my dreams
mafia is fun so play it
How about the sword in the same set which totally trumps this overcosted axe. However, this is a useful card in limited. Every set has one of these cards which is just totally over costed but still pretty decent as a limited only card.
Don't be too smart to have fun
I love Manic Vandal. I was disapointed when R&D rejected 10th edition's choice of Smash as the common artifact removal and instead put back Shatter in M10, a weak card that doesn't even have the versatility of Naturalize going for it. Luckily, there were very few threatening artifacts in this year's Standard metagame, so we didn't need artifact destruction in sideboards anyway... But now, Mirrodin 2 is at the door, and red gets a new card advantage-granting answer to artifacts, just in time. Thank you guys.

I'm not sure how to evaluate Warlord's Axe right now. The equipment cards in RoE, which is supposed to be a slow format, proved subpar to me in general because it seemed I always had better things to do with my mana. However, without a lot of expansive creatures and activated abilities like Level Up, M11 may prove very different. It's probably as Steve says, not a bomb like the ridiculously cheap equipement of Mirrodin block, but a strong playable in at least a few types of limited decks.

On a side note, they better reprint Burning Inquiry so I can draft my Megrim deck. Especially now that Megrim is a two-drop...

Show
The full spoiler is up on third-party sites, and sorry, Burning Inquiry didn't get reprinted.

Magic The Gathering DCI Lvl 1 Judge Don't hesitate to post rules question in the Rules Q&A forum for me and other competent advisors to answer : http://community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/75842/134778/Rules_Q38A
I love Manic Vandal. I was disapointed when R&D rejected 10th edition's choice of Smash as the common artifact removal and instead put back Shatter in M10, a weak card that doesn't even have the versatility of Naturalize going for it.

Pillage needs reprinted, badly.

I like both of these cards.  Remember, going from Vulshok Battlegear to Warlord's Axe doesn't indicate an overall drop in power level for equipment.  They include the card that's best for the specific set or best for Standard over the next 1.25 years.  Those are really the two biggest criteria (unless it's a heavily top-down card or Baneslayer Angel).

As for Manic Vandal, my only issue is the art.  He doesn't look particularly manic, or like he's having fun.  He looks like he's smashing things because he's angry with their owner.

Flavor-wise, where is passive aggression on the color pie? 
"We will all be purified in Wurm. What is good will be used to heal Wurm, or grow Wurm, or to fuel Wurm's path. What is vile will be extruded, and we will be free of it forever." --Prophet of the Cult of Wurm
I love Manic Vandal. I was disapointed when R&D rejected 10th edition's choice of Smash as the common artifact removal and instead put back Shatter in M10, a weak card that doesn't even have the versatility of Naturalize going for it.

Pillage needs reprinted, badly.




3-mana land destruction cards are on a very very low profile lately
With solid Equipment like Warlord's Axe running around, you want to have access to some good answers.



Just to clarify, according to the Visual Spoiller there are exactly three pieces of equipment in M11:  this, Whispersilk Cloak, and Sword of Vengeance.  Two of those are uncommon, and one is rare.

Other things to consider:

  • There are 15 non-creature artifacts.  Of those, 5 are the newer "lucky charms",  3 can leave the battlefield at instant speed, and 4 are Rare.  There are no Common artifacts.

  • Of the seven artifact creatures, 3 are Rare or Mythic Rare, and 4 can be killed with Lightning Bolt.  They can all be killed by Chandra's Outrage, which is also common.

  • There are 4 Uncommon artifacts that cannot be dealt with using creature removal, can be dealt with using artifact removal, and are likely to have a significant impact on the game.  One of these is Voltaic Key, which is useful for untapping 5 Uncommon artifacts (and also Ornithopter).

With this in mind, the decision to run main-deck artifact removal is up to you, but I feel this breakdown should help you make a more informed decision.  All-in-all, I would probably still run the vandal if I'm in red, but it is probably not going to be a useful addition to every limited deck.
"We will all be purified in Wurm. What is good will be used to heal Wurm, or grow Wurm, or to fuel Wurm's path. What is vile will be extruded, and we will be free of it forever." --Prophet of the Cult of Wurm
With solid Equipment like Warlord's Axe running around, you want to have access to some good answers.



Just to clarify, according to the Visual Spoiller there are exactly three pieces of equipment in M11:  this, Whispersilk Cloak, and Sword of Vengeance.  Two of those are uncommon, and one is rare.

Other things to consider:

  • There are 15 non-creature artifacts.  Of those, 5 are the newer "lucky charms",  3 can leave the battlefield at instant speed, and 4 are Rare.  There are no Common artifacts.

  • Of the seven artifact creatures, 3 are Rare or Mythic Rare, and 4 can be killed with Lightning Bolt.  They can all be killed by Chandra's Outrage, which is also common.

  • There are 4 Uncommon artifacts that cannot be dealt with using creature removal, can be dealt with using artifact removal, and are likely to have a significant impact on the game.  One of these is Voltaic Key, which is useful for untapping 5 Uncommon artifacts (and also Ornithopter).

With this in mind, the decision to run main-deck artifact removal is up to you, but I feel this breakdown should help you make a more informed decision.  All-in-all, I would probably still run the vandal if I'm in red, but it is probably not going to be a useful addition to every limited deck.


I'd probably maindeck it as well, but it depends on what you passed. If something needed to get cut, he'd probably be one of the first.
Contest Winners
Random Words
Round 1: Maraxas-of-Keld, Cryos_Icy_Manipulator Round 2: Dr_Demento, UltraMaximum Round 3: Dr_Demento, Keino Round 4: KunouNoHana Round 5: Maraxas-of-Keld, Stigma_Lasher Round 6: royinator Round 7: forty2j Round 8: Qazior Round 9: Qazior Round 10: Could be you link
Split Cards
Winner: dberry02
Pac-Man
Round 1: Fallingman
Worldprism
Quotes
57051078 wrote:
I just love how focused the YMtC community is.
56901828 wrote:
That's what I love about posting on these forums. Everyone's an expert(except for me).
57031358 wrote:
really no need to be so bitchy.
58021268 wrote:
@Edacade: Awright kid you go on ahead and do your thing and don't let anyone tell you different y'hear
58335208 wrote:
City of Asymmetrical Beings Land :T:, sacrifice a creature: Destroy target creature with the same converted mana cost as the sacrificed creature.
56957928 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
Might I just interject that making this a meme is the worst idea in magic in my opinion. It is too overpowered. It encourages cheating it in play. Essentially 99/100 times it is cheated in play instead of hardcast. Not only that, but you essentially win when it comes into play.
74943291 wrote:
82512575 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Make five-color hybrid tribal instant with buyback, kicker, cycling, card draw, token production, a steal effect, alternate casting cost and landfall that embodies the love that your mom and I share.
I think you just killed all chances of my card being elegant. Ardency :1mana::symwu::symbr: Tribal Instant - Soldier You may have target opponent gain control of 3 permanents you control rather than pay ~'s mana cost. As an additional cost to cast ~, choose two creatures you control, and sacrifice the rest. If you control a soldier, you can't sacrifice permanents this turn. Landfall - If you had a land enter the battlefield under your control this turn, instead choose 4 creatures. Kicker You get an emblem with "As long as you control both chosen creatures, they have protection from everything." If ~ was kicked, creatures you control get +1/+1 for each creature card in your graveyard until end of turn. Cycling :2mana: When you cycle ~, put two 2/2 Soldier creatures onto the battlefield. Would this EVER fit on a card?~
Aside from a few wording mishaps (should say "each chosen creature" because it's not necessarily two) this is nice. Very simple and elegant. I like the alternate cost a lot, and the kicker goes nicely with the sacrifice. However, the cycling seems a bit powerful (4 power and a card for 3? Cycling is supposed be bad. 8/10 EDIT: Just looked up "ardency". Lol.
58347268 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
58325628 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I'm immortalized too as long as no one deletes this post!
But in the shadow of the great one lurked many who sought to partake of his eternal glory.
Since when am I "many"?
You're a whole damn city.
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Ahem.
58021268 wrote:
Vivisect Sorcery As an additional cost to cast Vivisect, sacrifice a creature. Draw three cards. "For the sake of humanity," the surgeon whispered. The knife had never felt heavier in his hand.
I don't think a world that sacrifices so much would want to stop the making of children .
Vivisect =/= vasectomy
Now I just feel silly.
56287226 wrote:
I read over two hundred webcomics on a regular basis. "Terrible" doesn't even begin to describe me.
70246459 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I think that this is the first wizards-community thread that actually made me laugh out loud. Maraxas, I love you.
IMAGE(http://www.free-smiley-faces.de/free-animated-smileys_Smileys-animiert-kostenlos/free-animated-smiley-love_smiley-herz-animiert-kostenlos_250x250.gif)
58347268 wrote:
batman is a jerk in all of my dreams
mafia is fun so play it
Agreed.
 
"We will all be purified in Wurm. What is good will be used to heal Wurm, or grow Wurm, or to fuel Wurm's path. What is vile will be extruded, and we will be free of it forever." --Prophet of the Cult of Wurm
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