6/24/10 TD: "Fun With Hybrid Decks"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Top Decks Article, which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.
JACEJACEJACEJACEJACE
"But what happens when Noah casts Sovereigns of Lost Alara pre-combat, while his opponent is tapped?
That's right: "16" happens."
Let's see:
Gideon activates, becomes a 6/6. He attacks alone, and the exalted on Sovereigns activates, making him 7/7. Then you search up Eldrazi Conscription, and attach it to gideon, who gets +10/+10, trample, and annihilator 2.
6+1+10=17. Not 16.
People always seem to forget about the Exalted on Sovereigns of Lost Alara.
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57070368 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
Even metallix is gone now.
I'm right here.
My brain just exploded.

Taking all of the best decks in the formate and mashing them together is pretty sweet. 
Fun and diverse Standards? Did he not just say standard is devolving into "one big deck"? How is that diverse? Notice how he didn't mention any decks that DO NOT PLAY MYTHICS. The power of mythics is such that if you throw them into any deck, you have an effective, 'hybrid' strategy. This standard stinks to high heaven and the piles of t*rds have  red-colored expansion symbols.

There's another game out there that has this battle plan. It begins with a "Y" and rhymes with "Stunk-i-o"

Bennie Smith is right. The mythic problem is rampant, and these Flores-lauded 'hybrid' strategies are just the next step in the creation of the mythic black hole. Look close you can see the event horizon glowing in the distance.

Here's hoping Scars gives us something fun to play.
My latest set is in public beta! KOR - Kingdoms of Rabiah - Check it out! Like Uncle Istvan? Like Rabiah? Like Homelands? Then check out theScion's Parade of Planeswalkers Got Flavor? Throw it at me in my Gauntlet: theScion vs YMTC thread. Can the combined powers of YMTC defeat our favorite rainbow-faced card crafter?
Fun and diverse Standards? Did he not just say standard is devolving into "one big deck"? How is that diverse? Notice how he didn't mention any decks that DO NOT PLAY MYTHICS. The power of mythics is such that if you throw them into any deck, you have an effective, 'hybrid' strategy. This standard stinks to high heaven and the piles of t*rds have  red-colored expansion symbols.

There's another game out there that has this battle plan. It begins with a "Y" and rhymes with "Stunk-i-o"

Bennie Smith is right. The mythic problem is rampant, and these Flores-lauded 'hybrid' strategies are just the next step in the creation of the mythic black hole. Look close you can see the event horizon glowing in the distance.

Here's hoping Scars gives us something fun to play.




Not to mention that EVERY deck had Cheaty-Face-Vine and/or Jace, the Format-Sculptor in it.

I'm getting REALLY tired of being told that I MUST-MUST-MUST play one or both of these creatures if I want to make it to Top 8 now days.

Jace in Jund...... COME ON..... REALLY?!?!
Thirteen year old Noah Walker produced a deck that went undefeated in the Swiss before finishing an impressive second place.



This guy must have rich parents when he can afford a 400-500$ deck at 13. ;P
I gotta agree with theScion, at least partly. On the other hand, that "one big deck" isn't just one single deck like Psychatog-Upheavel or Affinity, but instead a family of similar-themed but diverse in terms of card choice. I certainly like this Standard much more than Mirrodin and Lorwyn, a bit more than Kamigawa and Time Spiral, but Ravnica was still way better.

Back when Ravnica was around, the ten guilds created a distinctly diverse metagame. There was a perfect amount of hybridization - You could play a Selesnya-Orzhov deck instead of pure Orzhov, but you wouldn't go as far as including the best card (Say Loxodon Hierarch) in every deck from Gruul to Izzet. Cards like Umezawa's Jitta, Tarmagoyf, Jace and Vengevine do exactly this, and they make the metagame more monotonous by showing up way too often.

Besides this, having power cards that too many decks would like to include makes its price go sky-rocket. Back in Ravnica I acquired over half a playset of the dual lands, because my budget allowed that to happen. Now I've decided never to touch any of those $30+ money cards, and mostly only work with the uncommons/commons and the dollar rares - I don't know about you all, but they've been getting less of my money since they started to print overpowered cards at mythic rarity. That's of course, a reason why I've been less involved in today's Standard than back then.

Edit: Btw, I got to say that the thirteen-year-old impressed me. Admit it or not, but it is a heck of a mental challenge competing at a high level.
Coming Soon.... NEXT LEVEL MYTHIC CONSCRIJACEJUNDREDGEVOPTERDEPTHS!!!

In an Extandard near you.
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Quotes
57051078 wrote:
I just love how focused the YMtC community is.
56901828 wrote:
That's what I love about posting on these forums. Everyone's an expert(except for me).
57031358 wrote:
really no need to be so bitchy.
58021268 wrote:
@Edacade: Awright kid you go on ahead and do your thing and don't let anyone tell you different y'hear
58335208 wrote:
City of Asymmetrical Beings Land :T:, sacrifice a creature: Destroy target creature with the same converted mana cost as the sacrificed creature.
56957928 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
Might I just interject that making this a meme is the worst idea in magic in my opinion. It is too overpowered. It encourages cheating it in play. Essentially 99/100 times it is cheated in play instead of hardcast. Not only that, but you essentially win when it comes into play.
74943291 wrote:
82512575 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Make five-color hybrid tribal instant with buyback, kicker, cycling, card draw, token production, a steal effect, alternate casting cost and landfall that embodies the love that your mom and I share.
I think you just killed all chances of my card being elegant. Ardency :1mana::symwu::symbr: Tribal Instant - Soldier You may have target opponent gain control of 3 permanents you control rather than pay ~'s mana cost. As an additional cost to cast ~, choose two creatures you control, and sacrifice the rest. If you control a soldier, you can't sacrifice permanents this turn. Landfall - If you had a land enter the battlefield under your control this turn, instead choose 4 creatures. Kicker You get an emblem with "As long as you control both chosen creatures, they have protection from everything." If ~ was kicked, creatures you control get +1/+1 for each creature card in your graveyard until end of turn. Cycling :2mana: When you cycle ~, put two 2/2 Soldier creatures onto the battlefield. Would this EVER fit on a card?~
Aside from a few wording mishaps (should say "each chosen creature" because it's not necessarily two) this is nice. Very simple and elegant. I like the alternate cost a lot, and the kicker goes nicely with the sacrifice. However, the cycling seems a bit powerful (4 power and a card for 3? Cycling is supposed be bad. 8/10 EDIT: Just looked up "ardency". Lol.
58347268 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
58325628 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I'm immortalized too as long as no one deletes this post!
But in the shadow of the great one lurked many who sought to partake of his eternal glory.
Since when am I "many"?
You're a whole damn city.
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
83237429 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
Ahem.
58021268 wrote:
Vivisect Sorcery As an additional cost to cast Vivisect, sacrifice a creature. Draw three cards. "For the sake of humanity," the surgeon whispered. The knife had never felt heavier in his hand.
I don't think a world that sacrifices so much would want to stop the making of children .
Vivisect =/= vasectomy
Now I just feel silly.
56287226 wrote:
I read over two hundred webcomics on a regular basis. "Terrible" doesn't even begin to describe me.
70246459 wrote:
74943291 wrote:
I think that this is the first wizards-community thread that actually made me laugh out loud. Maraxas, I love you.
IMAGE(http://www.free-smiley-faces.de/free-animated-smileys_Smileys-animiert-kostenlos/free-animated-smiley-love_smiley-herz-animiert-kostenlos_250x250.gif)
58347268 wrote:
batman is a jerk in all of my dreams
mafia is fun so play it
The Deck:

Mythic (mana accel)- lotus cobra and noble hierarch
UW Control (planesewalkers)- jace, gideon, elspeth
Naya (creatures)- vengevine, baneslayer angel, knight of the reliquary + 8 fetchlands
Conscription (combo)- sovereigns and conscription

Put them all in a blender along with your wallet and puree until you win the most expensive and boring standard ever. 
Just to add some statistics to the sentiment expressed above.

There are 89 mythics in standard, compared with a total pool of 1,282 nonland cards (i'm ignoring the land for the moment). That's 7% of the total card pool.

The "Big Five" (to borrow a safari term), those mythics costing £30 ($40) or more, being Baneslayer Angel (£40/$55), Jace, The Mind Sculptor (£60/$80), Vengevine (£30/$40), Gideon Jura (£45/$60) and Elspeth, Knight-Errant (£30/$40), represent a mere 0.4% of the nonland card pool. On average a "Big Five" card will cost you £40 ($55).

Of the decks Mike listed, on average each one had 13 Mythics, or 21% of the 61 nonland cards (including sidboard).

Worse, in my view, on average each of those decks runs 8 copies of a "Big Five" card, or 13% of the nonland cards.

What is amazing to me is that as each week passes, this Standard format seems to give us more and more different ways of competing effectively. I honestly feel like this is one of the most diverse and fun Standard formats I have ever played.




I am afraid I would have to respectfully disagree Mike. It seems in most instances you need nuermous copies of the Big Five to optimize whatever deckstrategy you intend to play, otherwise you are simply going to get run out of town by someone who does. Oh yes, and don't forget to run your four lotus cobra as a mana source.

I do agree that there is a lot of potential deck strategies out there right now, but I have never known a standard environment that was so prohibitive to playing them.

a quick aside on the mana base

Whilst I'm at it, the average (land) mana base listed here would have

7 fetchlands (£77 / $100)
4 Manduals (£20 / $27)
2 M10 duals (£18 / $25)

total £113 / $150

and that's not including four lotus cobra at £60 / $80

Funnily enough the land mana base hasn't been so much a problem - I've always managed to trade for them. The chase mythics? No chance. But to have a mana base costing upwards of $150 not be the problem really does underline for me the scale of the mythic problem.



and Mike - do read Bennie Smith's excellent article here (you even get a name check):

www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/1...
Coming Soon.... NEXT LEVEL MYTHIC CONSCRIJACEJUNDREDGEVOPTERDEPTHS!!!

In a Extandard near you.



This was sooo funny! Cool
Just a rules question: I assume that using Unearth abilities count as 'playing creatures' for the purposes of Vengevine?  Or are the decks mixing together Unearth with tossing down a few cheap creatures?  That sounds kinda JV, so I'm guessing my first assumption is correct.

For that matter, does bringing back a Vengvine count as playing a creature?  Kinda moot, as you'd have fulfilled the condition for all Vengevines in your graveyard if you're already bringing them back...
Just a rules question: I assume that using Unearth abilities count as 'playing creatures' for the purposes of Vengevine?


No. Unearth is an activated ability that moves the creature from the graveyard to the battlefield. It does not allow you to re-cast the creature.

Standard Answer to all 5E rules questions: "Ask your DM."

No. Unearth is an activated ability that moves the creature from the graveyard to the battlefield. It does not allow you to re-cast the creature.


Yeah, it didn't sound right to me, but I thought that was part of the combo under discussion and I just didn't understand the rules.  So, are small creatures being used to pull back out the Vengevines, most likely?

Thanks for the clarification.

Edit: messed up the quote.
Yet another sign of how expensive things are: all the multicolor. Every single standard deck in this article was three or four colors. (Admittedly, that's counting the Vengevine/Unearth deck with no green mana producers, but Vengevine is Vengevine.) With a multicolored-themed block in Standard, I guess that's not all that big a surprise, but all the chase rares are monocolored mythics from Zendikar block and and most of the fetchlands and dual man lands are too. Those mythics are so good that people splash them into decks that are already three colors and win. Wow. WTB common colorless planeswalker hosers in the next block. (OK, we probably don't need something that extreme, but still.)

No. Unearth is an activated ability that moves the creature from the graveyard to the battlefield. It does not allow you to re-cast the creature.




Yeah, it didn't sound right to me, but I thought that was part of the combo under discussion and I just didn't understand the rules.  So, are small creatures being used to pull back out the Vengevines, most likely?

Thanks for the clarification.




Looks that way to me. The deck has eight creatures with a casting cost of one mana, 11 with a CC of two and three with a CC of three. It also has a ton of draw-and-discard effects, so he can filter through his deck pretty easily to get the cheap creatures and get Vengevines and cards with Unearth into his graveyard.
i remember when it was hard to get arcbound ravagers back at onslaught-mirrodin standard, and they were only $20 a pop. i sincerely don't understand how competitive standard players can manage to dump $200 on a playset of any mythic.

This standard sure seemed to shape up as the most prohibitive, money-wise, to play, ever.
This standard sure seemed to shape up as the most prohibitive, money-wise, to play, ever.

...which will bite wizards directly on the ass very soon.

When New Extended and Standard are both dominated by Golden Tickets, and Legacy and Vintage are left out to rot, attendance for anything that isn't a draft is going to drop like a rock.
Of course, that could have been the goal all along.

Okay, I will add something constructive.  I really think the builder of that Dredgevine deck was a genius.  Outside of the 4 Vengevines (shudder shudder shudder), most of the cards in that deck are reasonable.  It also get competitive mileage out of limited favorites like Sedraxis Alchemist, Renegade Doppelganger, and Enclave Cryptologist.  It also makes very creative use of Eldrazi Monument. 

Now, I'm completely conflicted on Jace Jund.  I think it takes serious balls to put Jace into a Jund deck (although as Mike has said before, this style of deck is particularly reslilient to the effects of Spreading Seas).  However... I'm reminded of Lorwyn-era 5-color control.  Did someone reprint Reflecting Pool?!  Are we really back to the days of mana bases that splash the most broken cards from every color?  Well, except this time they're all mythic rares. 

Next week on Top Decks: we examine how healthy the environment is when a new breakout RDW deck playing 4 Jace the Mind Sculptors makes the top 8! 
Article: Here's cool stuff being done in Standard.

Response: *whine*

Wow, that was intellectually stimulating. 

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGS1AL.png) Sig by zpikduM.

Outside of Standard, I'm still trying to figure out a Stasis + Trix mashup.
Article: Here's cool stuff being done in Standard.

Response: *whine*

Wow, that was intellectually stimulating. 





As was your retort.

Look, I'm not so wrapped up in what I have to say that I can't see that others might be bored to hear the same issues come up...

but...

this is a column about the state and health of standard and he NEVER mentions the issue vented in these forums. ever. Just like he wrote an article extoling the great utility of lotus cobra and never spoke to the fact that it was mythic, supposedly where utility cards don't live.

Instead, Mike makes some pretty bold statements that standard is so darn great and diverse right now whilst stepping around this elephant in the room. All these decks that set his world alight (and I'll admit - look pretty darn great) have the same small pool of prohibitively expensive mythic rares in them. It wouldn't be off-topic if he spoke to that, but instead his articles are prominent by absence of comment.

All I mean to say is that the response here is relevant to the article and the column, and instead of berating those who make the comment, it would be great if you solicted Wizards to speak to the issue rather than this deafening silence. If Mike put in his article "look guys, I realise that week after week I keep saying that standard is so great but really you are nothing in standard without a playset of the best mythics. But the fact is I don't give a sh&t about whether a format is accessible; to me that's just your problem" i would despise his attitude but respect that he spoke to the point, and probably after a quick rant I'd have nothing more I could really say.
If Mike put in his article "look guys, I realise that week after week I keep saying that standard is so great but really you are nothing in standard without a playset of the best mythics...


See also: This JMS article from 2006

I take an opposite view.  Instead of cheering the "innovation" of moving mashing decks together, I worry about the lack of completely new decks being created.  I am all for building stuff from legos, but I much more welcome building something from scratch.
If Mike put in his article "look guys, I realise that week after week I keep saying that standard is so great but really you are nothing in standard without a playset of the best mythics...



See also: This JMS article from 2006






good article - thanks Q

I made a PS in my previous point about the cost of land bases (being around $150 on average, not including nonland mana sources such as lotuscobra). And the mythic problem dwarfs this. The average number of Golden Tickets (the chase mythics) in each of mikes spotlight decks is 8, at an average cost of $440.
Aside from having general problems with current standard, I posted on this forum to call out Mike for completely ignoring this issue. To me, Mike Flores is (arguably) the best magic writer of all time (personal favorite being Jamie Wakefield but he's behind a paywall now so), so to see him contradict himself while slathering advertising-style glitz onto the current standard is odd at best.

I would love to read his article on how Golden Ticket cards are a problem. I want to see him acknowledge how you can hitch whatever junky cards you want next to Jace or Vengevine and they'll be competitive.
My latest set is in public beta! KOR - Kingdoms of Rabiah - Check it out! Like Uncle Istvan? Like Rabiah? Like Homelands? Then check out theScion's Parade of Planeswalkers Got Flavor? Throw it at me in my Gauntlet: theScion vs YMTC thread. Can the combined powers of YMTC defeat our favorite rainbow-faced card crafter?
Just want to throw this out there, in case people state that people shouldn't complain about standard in every forum:
That may be the case, but it doesn't change the fact that the problem exists, and that Mike Flores has said literally NOTHING about it. If Wizards were to say they were making changes to address the problem, then I for one would stop complaining. But to stop pointing out problems when no change is in sight is stupid.
I end with 2 things: First is a quote from Aaron Forsythe on the banning of Skullclamp:
Let's talk about Standard first. Skullclamp was banned in Standard, frankly, because it was everywhere. Every competitive deck either had four in the main deck, had four in the sideboard, or was built to try and defend against it. And there were a lot more successful decks in the first two categories than in the third. Such representation is completely unhealthy for the format.
Second is the top 10 most popular cards in standard measured by TCGplayer.com, as of 5/21/2010, and their prices:




























































1Verdant CatacombsZendikar $14.99$12.36$9.72
2Celestial ColonnadeWorldwake $8.01$5.83$3.64
3Jace, the Mind SculptorWorldwake $94.49$81.99$69.49
4Lightning BoltMagic 2010 $2.99$2.18$1.37
5Bloodbraid ElfAlara Reborn $7.49$5.97$4.45
6BlightningShards of Alara $2.06$1.57$1.07
7Baneslayer AngelMagic 2010 $54.99$48.40$41.80
8Spreading SeasZendikar $0.52$0.30$0.08
9Raging RavineWorldwake $7.49$5.70$3.91
10Glacial FortressMagic 2010 $10.99$9.44$7.88
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WHAT DID YOU THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?
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Soul Stealer Angeltap Bloodchief Ascension Black Knights Infect Knights Mono-Green Control Turbo Bant The Solution
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Tight Sight 2010 Dralnu Fog Extended Knights Kor Dad Bolas Ramp
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Wins I have Witnessed[sblock]
57070368 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
Even metallix is gone now.
I'm right here.
Wow every decklist had @ least 3 Jace which cost how much? NOT FUN!!! I forsee myself not playing much Standard any time soon. At least not until Zendikar/JaceWWK cycles out. EDH is where my money is going from here out. My biggest dissappointment is the fact that I have spent around $1200.00 the last year for M10, Zendikar, WWK & ROE sets. This was the first block I invested in & I cannot compete in Standard.

Does anybody think there could be another fallout in competitive mtg scene?



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Over in the future set speculation they have just confirmed mana leak in m11 and a fixed timetwister reprint. so I guess every other deck will now look something like this:

fetchlands
4 celestial colonnade
1 dual land
1 Evolving Wilds
11 to 12 other lands

3 to 4 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 to 2 Gideon Jura
2 Baneslayer Angel and/or 4 Vengevine

4 mana leak
1 to 2 Day of Judgment
1 Time Reversal

4 wall of omens

3 to 4 negate or deprive in the sideboard

then add "your" bit to this $600 to $700 base and you have a deck.

The title of this article is Top Decks, so he obviously wouldn't tell us of any inferior non- Mythic rare deck. 

As Scars of Mirrodin releases, I will buy a playset of every mythic rare that costs 5 mana or less.

[/sarcasm]
The title of this article is Top Decks, so he obviously wouldn't tell us of any inferior non- Mythic rare deck. 

As Scars of Mirrodin releases, I will buy a playset of every mythic rare that costs 5 mana or less.

[/sarcasm]





of course he should. I don't expect him to do otherwise. In fact, as a writer, I'm rather fond of Mike's endearing fanatcism with his subject matter.

But his article is also (by his own pen) a commentary on the health of constructed formats, and he paints a picture of a standard dominated by golden tickets, but curiously avoids saying it out loud or commenting on whether that is a good or bad thing. Mike is too 'deliberately nerdy' (in all the best senses of that phrase) not to have noticed - it's a deliberate omission and one that, in my view, is beneath his standing as a writer.


As was your retort.


Got you to respond, though =P.

Look, I'm not so wrapped up in what I have to say that I can't see that others might be bored to hear the same issues come up...

but...

this is a column about the state and health of standard and he NEVER mentions the issue vented in these forums. ever. Just like he wrote an article extoling the great utility of lotus cobra and never spoke to the fact that it was mythic, supposedly where utility cards don't live.


1) People misread Rosewater's article on Mythics. It didn't say there would NEVER be utility cards at Mythic, but rather that they would be rare, and they wouldn't be utility staples (like land). In comparison to, say, BoP, Cobra actually makes sense as a Mythic.
2) Flores writes about the health of the format itself, not the singles market. That's an entirely different issue that his articles just don't address. I don't see why this is a surprise.

Instead, Mike makes some pretty bold statements that standard is so darn great and diverse right now whilst stepping around this elephant in the room. All these decks that set his world alight (and I'll admit - look pretty darn great) have the same small pool of prohibitively expensive mythic rares in them. It wouldn't be off-topic if he spoke to that, but instead his articles are prominent by absence of comment.


Again, it's not relevant to the topic of his article.

All I mean to say is that the response here is relevant to the article and the column, and instead of berating those who make the comment, it would be great if you solicted Wizards to speak to the issue rather than this deafening silence. If Mike put in his article "look guys, I realise that week after week I keep saying that standard is so great but really you are nothing in standard without a playset of the best mythics. But the fact is I don't give a sh&t about whether a format is accessible; to me that's just your problem" i would despise his attitude but respect that he spoke to the point, and probably after a quick rant I'd have nothing more I could really say.


As above, the reality of it is that his article is COMPLETELY unrelated to the secondary market. It's a simple analysis/observation of the meta.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would love to read his article on how Golden Ticket cards are a problem. I want to see him acknowledge how you can hitch whatever junky cards you want next to Jace or Vengevine and they'll be competitive.


This is not true, so it won't happen.
 

IMAGE(http://i1101.photobucket.com/albums/g424/syreal94/SIGS1AL.png) Sig by zpikduM.

I tend to agree with S1AL; I don't think anyone can seriously expect Mike Flores to go out on a limb an comment on Wizard's policies at a higher level or what the secondary market is like. In the first case, what do you want him to say? 'Oh my, we've made a catastrophic error in printing over-powered cards at mythic rarity, and it's threatening to tear the customer base in two! Holy cow!' For all we know, he might be campaigning behind the scenes for something to be done about this (I doubt it, but who knows?). 

I think we can agree that there is a problem here; Standard has reached the point where you need to spend $400 minimum on a deck to even begin to compete. The game is not, I take it, supposed to be about who has the most disposable income. The interesting question, then, is what can be done to fix it?

Well, I don't think an anti-planeswalker card is going to cut it (as was suggested by someone above); if it's good, it will rocket towards an astronomical price tag just as quickly as Jace and co. It would also devalue the most expensive cards in the pool, and there's no way they'll want to do that. Also, planeswalkers are only part of the problem; there's Cobra, Vengevine and BSA as well.

The obvious next option would be not to print any more ridiculous mythics; but this would just drive the price of the already-extant cards through the roof- at least until they rotate out of Extended. The recent castration of that format makes me wonder if this is exactly what they intend... If so, either sell your car or give up on tournament play.

What about going the other way, and printing loads of the mythics that are causing the problem, to artificially lower the price? I can't see this happening; the more money there is in the game, the better Wizards are doing. It would also be criminal short term-ism; once every starter set has a full set of mythics in it, where is there to go?




Conclusion: we should all start petitioning for Pauper to become a sanctioned format.



No, really.
No we should not. It's bad enough that WOTC actually supports it online and even made a banned list. Pet formats should never be sanctioned.
Oddly enough as everyone is lamenting the price of standard, RDW finally scored it's first major win all season.

Primarily ridding the wave of polymorph, and Mythic variants. Lotus Cobra is loads of free tempo to a deck that can take it out.

There's a vulnerability there that can be exploited, the other is how obsessed with Board control PW heavy decks are, leaving them cripplingly vulnerable to things like Time Sieve and Open the Vaults. 
No we should not. It's bad enough that WOTC actually supports it online and even made a banned list. Pet formats should never be sanctioned.


I feel we've been disagreeing a lot lately Haci (this most likely suprises you for good reason, I've been keeping my posting low) but on this we can absolutely agree.

I agree with MaRo on various things from time to time...perhaps the largest is the following:

Restriction breeds creativity.

AKA, I see more game-breaking combos in pet formats like EDH and Pauper than in normal formats...and it ruins them for me and many other players.

Please, do not sanction such things.
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