I deactivated my Auto Renew

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Wizards, you've got until November to get the game table out.

The cover of the 1st edition Player’s Handbook by artist D.A. Trampier. A motley crew of adventurers, the bloodied bodies of lizard men, the hint of arcane malevolence surrounding the idol, the daring thieves prying the jewels from the statue. This is arguably the most iconic piece of art in all of RPGdom.
Gallery Photo

Glad to see more people are waking up to WOTC snake oil scheme.





I can envision this happening alot more. 

We're two years and two tools into DDI (three if you count the Compendium). WotC sold people on grabbing 12-month subscriptions about a year ago and this is renewal season. And there hasn't been alot to show: the Monster Builder and twelve months of deafening silence on what's next. 
The first thread on the Monster Builder forum came-out around June 30th (give or take). And since then there's been... nothing. No hints, no hype, no updates or improvements.
For all we've heard the entire DDI department could have been sacked or reassigned save one dude assigned to content updates. 
I very much doubt that's the case but we're so far out of the loop the loop looks like it's a dot. 

There's very little incentive to keep a subscription up.
The PHB3 previews have dried-up and nothing has replaced them, so it feels like there's a content gap. 
I'm running a three-month old copy of the Character Builder and Adventure Tools just fine. There's more than enough content already in the game that the few token Dragon articles have little interest for anyone but the niche audience they were written for. The few gap-filling articles are a little more essential (the ranger article on beast companions for example, or the warlock article a few issues back) but for the most part they're forgettable. 
I occasionally miss the Compendium, but since I don't have the laptop out in-game this doesn't affect me. I miss-out on the newest articles, but I'll be able to read them just fine when I re-up for a single month to snag the Monster Manual.  

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The compilation of my Worldbuilding blog series is now available: 

Jester David's How-To Guide to Fantasy Worldbuilding.

As Mith says, hasn't this topic been flogged to death a thousand times already.

Yes I wish WotC would give us all a hint of a future D&Di release.

Yes it's frustrating, but we WILL have a new tool to play with soon and I would bet 10,000gp it'll be unveiled at GenCon in 6 weeks time. It won't be the fabled VTT, but quite frankly there are those of us who are just as happy it isn't here because -

A) We'll make very little use of it.

and

B) As soon as it is released the cost of a D&Di sub will leap into orbit.

So for god sake give Wizards a break and stop moaning about the poxy VTT, it'll be here when it's ready and not before.
Glad to see more people are waking up to WOTC snake oil scheme.




Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Glad to see more people are waking up to WOTC snake oil scheme.






At what point does it become beating a dead horse to tell people that they're beating a dead horse?

Wizards, you've got until November to get the game table out.




Wait, what?  That's all we had to do?  If we just set an arbitrary deadline they'll do stuff?

Wizards, you have until Friday to get me free copies of the new Dark Sun books.
Lol, I forgot doing the same thing... so WOTC, you have me for another year, please make me happy about it.

Viva Chile mierrrr...!!!

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Oh Content, where art thou?

Wizards, you've got until November to get the game table out.





Wait, what?  That's all we had to do?  If we just set an arbitrary deadline they'll do stuff?

Wizards, you have until Friday to get me free copies of the new Dark Sun books.




If me threatening to mail-bomb Trevor Kidd's inbox with pictures of WolfStar76 in a mankini isn't going to get *me* the Dark Sun books, I highly doubt your threat will do anything.
Mudbunny SVCL for DDI Before you post, think of the Monkeysphere
If me threatening to mail-bomb Trevor Kidd's inbox with pictures of WolfStar76 in a mankini isn't going to get *me* the Dark Sun books, I highly doubt your threat will do anything.



Sorry, I'm still kind of new to extortion.
Wizards, you've got until November to get the game table out.



Just found this dated April 2008. They had to know they were having problems yet still devoted the majority of the interview to plugging the new tools (and, not the tools they eventually released) and seemed purposely vague on the release date (in that they didn't say they'd be ready, but didn't say they wouldn't). 
It's kind of impressive how far along the visualizer looked (even if the character models looked sub-par two years ago). 

5 Minute WorkdayMy Webcomic Updated Tue & Thur

The compilation of my Worldbuilding blog series is now available: 

Jester David's How-To Guide to Fantasy Worldbuilding.

I forgot how long before the relase of 4th ed it was. But there is a video on you tube from WOTC showing the character maker, viewer, dungeon builder and virtual game table. They all looked very good. They guy from WOTC said without a doubt that those tools would be ready to go on the same day the 4th ed books were in the stores.
Yes when you put it like that without the details it sounds horrible, but before the launch the deal with the third party developer fell out.

Unforeseen circumstances happen and things change.

Play whatever the **** you want. Never Point a loaded party at a plot you are not willing to shoot. Arcane Rhetoric. My Blog.

Yes when you put it like that without the details it sounds horrible, but before the launch the deal with the third party developer fell out.

Unforeseen circumstances happen and things change.



Exactly.

Besides, look how long it took for us to get Pretzel M&M's!!  (editor's note: delicious, btw!)

I am actually a bit surprised that no one has created a similar 3d VTT in the spirit of the DDI version, if not an obvious clone.  Who was the developer?

Celebrate our differences.

You know what's awesome. Because I'm not upset about the VTT and Character Visualizer not being out. I'm a happy person, not twisted into a gollum like creature for carring around two years worth of anger and bitterness.

Since Fantasy Grounds incorporated the 4e ruleset, I think the Wizards VTT will hardly be good enough to convince me to drop out from it. 3D is fine and all, but will be a hell to program a single session.


A Map Builder (using all tilesets since 3e) and the Character Mini Builder, on the other hand...

[<()>]Proud Brazilian. Typos are free bonuses. 



Unforeseen circumstances happen and things change.



I understand that. I am really not upset about things changing. But WOTC did a terrible job of getting that info out to people. Plus add to that its been almost a year since WOTC said anything about any new tools makes me feel like WOTC has not learned anything about commucating with the public.


Since Fantasy Grounds incorporated the 4e ruleset, I think the Wizards VTT will hardly be good enough to convince me to drop out from it. 3D is fine and all, but will be a hell to program a single session.



A Map Builder (using all tilesets since 3e) and the Character Mini Builder, on the other hand...




This. The new 4e ruleset for FG2 has made me forget all about the DDi VTT altogether.
I think that building the GameTable on an RTS Engine like Pyrogenesis would be the most preferable with just a little bit of tweaking
I understand that. I am really not upset about things changing. But WOTC did a terrible job of getting that info out to people. Plus add to that its been almost a year since WOTC said anything about any new tools makes me feel like WOTC has not learned anything about commucating with the public.





Wizards got the information out just fine, when they had the information.  If there is trouble in paradise, they are not obligated to tell anyone. If there was any delay, it is most certain that they were trying to find a solution.  Personally, I would be more embittered if they were leaving a trail of breadcrumbs, acting like we were all going to be led to the promise land, only to realize we were lost in the woods and there was no way back.

When they realized that they had a dead product, they let us know.

Wizards does not have the problems communicating with the public that you would lead others to believe. You have a jaded vision of them to begin with. and anyone that has read a half-dozen of your posts would easily make that assessment.  Are they perfect?  Nope, no company is. But they do their best, and that's really all we can sincerely ask for as consumers.

Celebrate our differences.



Unforeseen circumstances happen and things change.




I understand that. I am really not upset about things changing. But WOTC did a terrible job of getting that info out to people. Plus add to that its been almost a year since WOTC said anything about any new tools makes me feel like WOTC has not learned anything about commucating with the public.




I disagree. They posted it in the news section, and within minutes, there was an uproar on the forums, with so many new threads being created it became a mess.

Regardless of HOW people found out, they ultimatly found out because WOTC said something. Just like when a celebrity dies, and a friend tells me, that doesn't mean the news services failed, but that I found out from a different source.

WoTC is doing just what you asked them too. Follow through on everything they say are going to do from now on.

What you don't like is that you got played. They don't have to follow through if they don't say it. I don't see any laws or regulations or rules about a company has to tell us everything they are working on. Oh sure it's nice. But hey, reap what you sow.
They posted in the news section. IIRC it was about a month before 4th ed hit that it was posted. So during that month that news story got buried. The info was not even made a sticky on the fourms. Everyone on the fourms calmed down.

WOTC needed to have made the info very clear on the main DnD page.  WOTC knew the story would get buried by the relase date. Then it was not until 2 months later that anyone from WOTC offically said anything. In that time the fourms got flooded with new players asking where the tools that were promised in the back of the core books are.


I never said I was tactful. I am honest and direct and people here can't handle that so they are scared.
I ask WOTC a direct question: "are the other 3 orginal tools going to come out at some point". They don't want to answer yes or no. They change the subject of the question by either not answering or telling me about all the tools they have out now.  That does not answer the question I asked. When WOTC does not answer a question I ask, it shows they have no respect for me. So they don't deserve respect back.

Paizo is so much better. I ask questions there and the staff, CEO responds to the customers. I may not like what the answer is. But at least they respect the customers enough to be honest and upfront with them. They don't dodge questions like WOTC does.

So maybe WOTC can learn how to be honest and direct from me thou.
Did they not, 5 weeks before the launch of 4E announce that the ddi tools would not be ready at launch. And was this news not on the front page of the website, for a whole week?
I've deactivated autorenew as well.  It's fine to continue beating the horse if it's a valid point.  People should remain vocal until their grievances are at least addressed.

I subscribed to DDI entirely for the Assassin and Shadow power source.  After not seeing a 3rd build and finding there will be a print book, I no longer require DDI.  There are more than enough small things about the product that bug me and without what I mainly derived value from, there is no reason to continue subscribing.

The completely negative attitude (even from some VCLs) to anyone who dares to question has become too much for me.  I am no longer confident that positive progress can be made in an atmosphere like this.
Well said, Gargoyle117.
I've deactivated autorenew as well.  It's fine to continue beating the horse if it's a valid point.  People should remain vocal until their grievances are at least addressed.

I subscribed to DDI entirely for the Assassin and Shadow power source.  After not seeing a 3rd build and finding there will be a print book, I no longer require DDI.  There are more than enough small things about the product that bug me and without what I mainly derived value from, there is no reason to continue subscribing.

The completely negative attitude (even from some VCLs) to anyone who dares to question has become too much for me.  I am no longer confident that positive progress can be made in an atmosphere like this.



I've got nothing against the idea of continuing to protest a bad decision.  And deactivating your autorenew is your choice to make.  Protesting through not participating is one of the strongest statements you can make.

But I'd like to speak on the negative attitude issue, if I may.  That's a really tricky topic.  I tend to think of the people who highlight the good points, or who are trying to be constructive in their criticism as having a positive attitude.  I view people who throw personal insults, or make nothing but shallow complaints that highlight the programs shortcomings as having a more negative attitude.  I'm not accusing anyone here of having a negative attitude.  I'm just laying out how I define it.

The problem with having a negative attitude is that it doesn't do anything to help the situation.  It doesn't fix anything, and it doesn't get the attention or influence the decisions of the people who can fix the situation.  So, I try to stay positive.  When I offer critisism, I try to make it constructive.  I don't always succeed, but I make the effort. 

When someone makes a complaint, the VCLs should try to solve the problem, or at least point the person having trouble in the right direction.  They should not respond with a negative attitude.  If you've seen a VCL who isn't doing that, and who is acting inappropriately, you should let one of the other VCLs know, or send a message to WotC_Trevor directly.

I don't think I've ever spoken with you before, so I don't think I ws the one who responded negatively to your complaints, but I'd like to appologize for myself and the entire Volunteer staff for your mistreatment.  If there is anything I can do to help fix it, please let me know.
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Did they not, 5 weeks before the launch of 4E announce that the ddi tools would not be ready at launch. And was this news not on the front page of the website, for a whole week?




IIRC, the news was made in the fourms and in the news feed section about that time. But it was not on the main page of the site for a week. Then because of the nature of fourms and the news feed, the info got buried over the next 4-5 weeks before 4th ed hit. Making the info very hard to find for new players and players looking to come back to play online with old gaming friends.  WOTC did not put a link to the info that the tools were not ready until they offically said something in the fourms about 2 months after 4th ed  was out.  The whole thing looked like a bait a switch from WOTC to get people to buy the books when WOTC had no intention of puttting out the promised tools. I am not saying that what it was. But this was handled very poorly by WOTC.


Did they not, 5 weeks before the launch of 4E announce that the ddi tools would not be ready at launch. And was this news not on the front page of the website, for a whole week?



IIRC, the news was made in the fourms and in the news feed section about that time. But it was not on the main page of the site for a week. Then because of the nature of fourms and the news feed, the info got buried over the next 4-5 weeks before 4th ed hit. Making the info very hard to find for new players and players looking to come back to play online with old gaming friends.  WOTC did not put a link to the info that the tools were not ready until they offically said something in the fourms about 2 months after 4th ed  was out.  The whole thing looked like a bait a switch from WOTC to get people to buy the books when WOTC had no intention of puttting out the promised tools. I am not saying that what it was. But this was handled very poorly by WOTC.



I didn't think you would be honest. Your facts are wrong and you know it. But again, no one takes you seriously.
Could we please refrain from personal attacks and arguing about the past actions in specifics?  This thread does have some good points about how the consumers feel about the product.

Suffice it to say that my confidence is low, based on my past experiences with DDI and its handling.  This is just how I feel about it.

Now that I see I am not getting what I expected to get out of the product since I subscribed for 1 year, it is time for me to let my subscription lapse until the product is more in line with what I am looking for.

There is no anger, and no accusations at all.  All I can say is that the bulk of the articles have not been useful or interesting to me.  The support for the Shadow Power source, that I specifically subscibed in order to receive, has been light and not lived up to my expectations.  There is far too much lag between an article's publishing date and its entrance into the compendium and CB.  Many glossary items are missing entirely as are Skill Powers, Backgrounds, etc.

Should DDI grow into a more robust suite with more reliable quality in the tools, I would most likely come back and check it out again.
Could we please refrain from personal attacks and arguing about the past actions in specifics?  This thread does have some good points about how the consumers feel about the product.

Suffice it to say that my confidence is low, based on my past experiences with DDI and its handling.  This is just how I feel about it.

Now that I see I am not getting what I expected to get out of the product since I subscribed for 1 year, it is time for me to let my subscription lapse until the product is more in line with what I am looking for.

There is no anger, and no accusations at all.  All I can say is that the bulk of the articles have not been useful or interesting to me.  The support for the Shadow Power source, that I specifically subscibed in order to receive, has been light and not lived up to my expectations.  There is far too much lag between an article's publishing date and its entrance into the compendium and CB.  Many glossary items are missing entirely as are Skill Powers, Backgrounds, etc.

Should DDI grow into a more robust suite with more reliable quality in the tools, I would most likely come back and check it out again.



If someone has an issue with WoTC, they need to be honest about those issues. WoTC can't address a problem if the problem is a lie. They can't respond to an unhappy customer that isn't being honest.

It does everyone a diservice when someone lies to make a point.
Could we please refrain from personal attacks and arguing about the past actions in specifics?  This thread does have some good points about how the consumers feel about the product.

Suffice it to say that my confidence is low, based on my past experiences with DDI and its handling.  This is just how I feel about it.

Now that I see I am not getting what I expected to get out of the product since I subscribed for 1 year, it is time for me to let my subscription lapse until the product is more in line with what I am looking for.

There is no anger, and no accusations at all.  All I can say is that the bulk of the articles have not been useful or interesting to me.  The support for the Shadow Power source, that I specifically subscibed in order to receive, has been light and not lived up to my expectations.  There is far too much lag between an article's publishing date and its entrance into the compendium and CB.  Many glossary items are missing entirely as are Skill Powers, Backgrounds, etc.

Should DDI grow into a more robust suite with more reliable quality in the tools, I would most likely come back and check it out again.



Well said.

I posted in another thread that my sub just lapsed today. I just can't justify renewing right now, even though I really want the MM3 updates in the Monster Builder. I won't pay for a new subscription for just one digital update to the tool. I know, I could just buy a month, grab the update, and run, but I don't really want to do that.

First off, it gives the product another subscriber for at least one more month. I make a much bigger statement by saying that even MM3 isn't enough to entice me again. Second, I kind of feel like I'm stealing it by doing a hit-and-run for one month.

I'd rather not get started on the Assassin being in a print product. I already talked about that in my blog.

As for the VTT, I don't even think about it anymore. It's dead. There are other tools to use out there for the same purpose, and they're free. If WotC chooses to make one, it's just a "nice to have" at this point. I'm more concerned with the empty buttons in the Adventure Tools screen now.

If someone has an issue with WoTC, they need to be honest about those issues. WoTC can't address a problem if the problem is a lie. They can't respond to an unhappy customer that isn't being honest.

It does everyone a diservice when someone lies to make a point.



You seem to be implying that Gargoyle is lying about something. Rather than being vague, why don't you state what you mean? Personally, I see no lies in there, especially considering that person mirrors me so closely (except that my sub actually has lapsed as of today.)

Perhaps you mean the items listed as being absent from the Compendium? Honestly, I have no idea what is or isn't in the Compendium. The few times I've used it, I've found what I was looking for. My use is not very comprehensive though.
Long Live the Lance! Give us 4e DL!
Did they not, 5 weeks before the launch of 4E announce that the ddi tools would not be ready at launch. And was this news not on the front page of the website, for a whole week?





IIRC, the news was made in the fourms and in the news feed section about that time. But it was not on the main page of the site for a week. Then because of the nature of fourms and the news feed, the info got buried over the next 4-5 weeks before 4th ed hit. Making the info very hard to find for new players and players looking to come back to play online with old gaming friends.  WOTC did not put a link to the info that the tools were not ready until they offically said something in the fourms about 2 months after 4th ed  was out.  The whole thing looked like a bait a switch from WOTC to get people to buy the books when WOTC had no intention of puttting out the promised tools. I am not saying that what it was. But this was handled very poorly by WOTC.





This is what I encountered as well. KM is right on this one.


This is what I encountered as well. KM is right on this one.



This is not what I encountered.  Maybe some people are more proficient with knowing where to look for the announcements when they are provided.  Wizards was very forthright with providing us information when they had it to provide.  I know that I had knowledge of DDI not being ready and the VTT table was likely going vapor prior to release, as it was the sole reason why I did not buy 4E when it launched.

Celebrate our differences.

the person that has never played DnD before or is coming back to DnD because of these tools that WOTC said would be ready could not find the info easy on the DnD site. WOTC did a poor job of making the info clear. If you never been to the DnD sute befor you would not have known where to look. At the time i was pretty active here and I almost missed the info. WOTC should have put the info on the page that was the link they told people in the ads in the core books. 
the person that has never played DnD before or is coming back to DnD because of these tools that WOTC said would be ready could not find the info easy on the DnD site. WOTC did a poor job of making the info clear. If you never been to the DnD sute befor you would not have known where to look. At the time i was pretty active here and I almost missed the info. WOTC should have put the info on the page that was the link they told people in the ads in the core books. 




I'm not sure that is a fair argument to make. 





Not only is it not fair, but it is completely presumptuous.  But there is nothing quite like coming to the boards every day or two, dropping a fresh steamy load, and wallowing in it...  for two years straight.

Besides, there is such a thing as forgiveness.  But some people choose to hold a grudge.

Celebrate our differences.

the person that has never played DnD before or is coming back to DnD because of these tools that WOTC said would be ready could not find the info easy on the DnD site. WOTC did a poor job of making the info clear. If you never been to the DnD sute befor you would not have known where to look. At the time i was pretty active here and I almost missed the info. WOTC should have put the info on the page that was the link they told people in the ads in the core books. 




WotC screwed up the information management.  They have offered reduced subscription prices.  They have expanded demo timeframes.  They offered a week of free access last year.  Most importantly, they have appologized for it. And they have made efforts to try and make it up to their customers.

I understand that you aren't satisfied with that.  Fair enough.   No one can force you to change your mind.  But would you be kind enough to offer some suggestions about what could reasonably be done to correct the situation at this point?
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KM is not right about them not putting anything on the front page. Or when they released information He's trying to make it seem like they hide it and that's simply not true.

5 weeks before the launch of 4E they said the digital tools would be delayed and not part of the launch, and that they would be bringing the tools out one at a time over several months.

Back then, the front page wasn't the best design, but the main feature was always the last product they had put out. Under that were 4 standard boxes that always linked to the same feature. One was news, and this was were the announcement of the delay in the digital side of 4e was to be found.

Back then, each Monday that news feature would be updated with a new article. When you clicked on the link, it took you to the page with the full news article, and an archieve above it, listing past aricles in order of date, with a link to them.

It was also linked to the ampersand article for that MONTH, which was always accessable through the front page.

The post in the forums got buried under everyone having to make their own thread about it.

Nothing was buried, nothing was hidden. As people have said, how they learned about the delay was just as I have said. Which means his verison of the facts don't match up to what people actually experienced, and the whole tone and anger in his posts pretty much shows his bias.

No one is denying that WoTC could have done a better job. If that's his only concern, fine, but it's two years later, and they have gotten way better. So there is no point in going on is there? Lesson learned.

WoTC or any company can only put out info, the cant force people to read it. They can't make people understand it. They set up a system on how to put that info out there, and stuck to that system for everything so that it would be easy for anyone looking for info to be able to come and go to the news and find just that News.

KM seems to think that WoTC should have changed the whole front page to say, "NO VTT".

So far, he's claiming thousands of people being duped into buying DnD with a bait and switch. Not possible. Anyone that bought the book, solely on the back page (Which was sent to the printer 6 months before launch, when they thought the digital side was going to happen), and went to find there wasn't anything to subscribe to, could easily return the book to the store they bought it from. They got to the store in the first place, getting back is possible to.

But so far there seems to be a lack of these thousands of people that were duped. A few have claimed they only got into 4E for this and when questioned about keeping the book or not, they clammed up.

WoTC was slow to update some of the pages, but that's life in a corporation. What would seem to take a few minutes to use takes days at any company.
  But would you be kind enough to offer some suggestions about what could reasonably be done to correct the situation at this point?




   Well I also need to say I feel the WOTC did the same thing with the Etools/ Master Tools botch with 3rd ed. Then IMO they totally mishandled these 4th ed tools. Shows me WOTC did not learn anthing from what happened with the software they promised from 3rd ed.. So when the same thing happened with the computer tools for 4th ed, I had a very intense reaction.

  I feel this is pretty reasonable. But that is option, too.

 I would like someone from the WOTC DDi production line, not a mod or VCL or anyone like that answer yes or no to if WOTC is still planning at some point to come out with the other three orginal tools that were promised. The viewer, dungeon maker and virtual game table. Yes or no to each item. Also a very rough ETA on them if WOTC is still planning to put them out. I am not expecting a date or even a month. But WOTC should have a plan and timetable on them if WOTC still wants to put them out. 
 
  I do not want to hear nothing, or how about all these other tools they have out now or are in the works. Those responses do not answer the question.  If they do not answer the question yes or no, then it shows me WOTC is not interested in answering customers questions or treating customers with respect.



Dane, as you see from Mauss' post, I was not the only one that saw it like how I said. I must have made it all up then.

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