6/17/10 Top Decks: New Toys

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Top Decks Article, which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.
erdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shaheen makes a fun deck. And also, first
LSV's turbo land looks sick.


I'm thinking of putting a list together.   
so i got second place with a home brew at the same ptq that shaheen won and i did not get a plug in this article.  i was just curious why that is, i mean there have been several times that mike had featured decks that did not do well in a tournament but was neat and mine did both and i dont get a shout out?  dont want to sound like im begging but what u gotta do now a days to get noticed?
I really liked turboland, a deckstrat I had been *reasonably* close to discovering all by myself. except...

I. DON'T. OWN. FOUR. FREEKIN. JACES.

and I probably never will. They're up to about $90 here.

so building an optimum turboland is out... same goes for next level bant... mythic conscription.... brilliant ultimatum.... U/G polymorph... and a greater proportion of other white / blue control.

such a shame that competitive standard has become so inaccessible by virtue of a handful of over-the-curve mythics

I like how Standard is considered "Open" but really it's still Jund VS "Decks w/Jace."

Also, yes, Emeria Angel is the awesome.  Hence the GW Brave Angel deck I helped a friend with.  Funny it took other people so long to figure that out.
I doubt many of the pro players or people in large playgroup with enough $ or luck realize how bad Mythics (and Jace V2 in general) are affecting the game. If you don't want to play some scrub deck and get rolled over by everyone you pretty much *have* to play Jace if you want to play anything with blue in it. Even if you would want to spend the 300+ $ to get a playset its hard to get because the supply can not keep up with the demand because of the mythic rarity.
emeria angel is teh worst
when the field is open ie. half jund, you have a creature that is only 1/2 of a cascade card
chumps to leech, raging ravine,
trades down to thrinax, bloodbraid, siege gang

dont skimp on the siege gang kiddies he's 8 to the dome vs next level
bloodwitch, sparkmage, necrogenesis, duress to taste
emeria angel is teh worst
when the field is open ie. half jund, you have a creature that is only 1/2 of a cascade card
chumps to leech, raging ravine,
trades down to thrinax, bloodbraid, siege gang

dont skimp on the siege gang kiddies he's 8 to the dome vs next level
bloodwitch, sparkmage, necrogenesis, duress to taste



I hear theorycraft is what gets you multiple high level event t8s.

But I guess it is only fitting that you are spouting completely unproven (in results!) theorycraft and championing Jund, of all decks.
"Stop *****ing, start brewing" -YoMTGTaps Trying to talk Magic players off ledges since 2001. Sharing my knowledge of rumor history, and how to discuss rumors effectively.
Necrogenesis? I mean i guess its a good card against vengevine...but then if that is all it fights is it really worth it?
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.


I hear theorycraft is what gets you multiple high level event t8s.

But I guess it is only fitting that you are spouting completely unproven (in results!) theorycraft and championing Jund, of all decks.



this is where you quote multiple high level event t8s with emeria angels
oh wait...
I doubt many of the pro players or people in large playgroup with enough $ or luck realize how bad Mythics (and Jace V2 in general) are affecting the game. If you don't want to play some scrub deck and get rolled over by everyone you pretty much *have* to play Jace if you want to play anything with blue in it. Even if you would want to spend the 300+ $ to get a playset its hard to get because the supply can not keep up with the demand because of the mythic rarity.



Bohoo. Cards are expensive.  Go cry in one of the 1,000,000 other threads.

Necrogenesis? I mean i guess its a good card against vengevine...but then if that is all it fights is it really worth it?



I kinda like it, it hoses vengevine, and provides chumps against beaters like KotR.

Also provides you with good Sarkan sac targets.   
I doubt many of the pro players or people in large playgroup with enough $ or luck realize how bad Mythics (and Jace V2 in general) are affecting the game. If you don't want to play some scrub deck and get rolled over by everyone you pretty much *have* to play Jace if you want to play anything with blue in it. Even if you would want to spend the 300+ $ to get a playset its hard to get because the supply can not keep up with the demand because of the mythic rarity.




I mean if it where hurting standard people wouldnt be paying 80. If it where in low supply SCG wouldnt have 90. It might be hurting your ability(and mine) to play blue, but I think its a little incorrect to say that reflects the larger market.
Owner of TheCardNexus chain on mtgo.
I doubt many of the pro players or people in large playgroup with enough $ or luck realize how bad Mythics (and Jace V2 in general) are affecting the game. If you don't want to play some scrub deck and get rolled over by everyone you pretty much *have* to play Jace if you want to play anything with blue in it. Even if you would want to spend the 300+ $ to get a playset its hard to get because the supply can not keep up with the demand because of the mythic rarity.





Bohoo. Cards are expensive.  Go cry in one of the 1,000,000 other threads.




I can understand your frustration that myself and others jump on any chance to voice this concern, I really do, but I don't think its fair to dismiss the point. As you imply, there are a lot of threads where this is raised. And yet Wizards chooses not to respond to this quite legitimate customer concern. Its interesting because they address other feedback, but so far never this issue. It creates more frustration, where those making the point feel unheard and - feeling, as I do, it is an important issue - choose to make the point again.

This thread is in response to an article about the state of standard, so surely it is appropriate to comment on the increasing inaccessability of standard: viz, a greater proportion of standard is dominated by one card that, I think is fair to say, you would be unlikely to be able to trade for, and currently sells for $80 to $90 each. It isn't that cards are expensive, as you say, its that this is prohibitively so as a result of the change in the way the product is designed (ie. that mythics seem to be designed to be better-than-rares).

And if the clamour seems particularly acute its possibly because these concerns about the super-chase card were voiced from day one. The thread dealing with the announcement of mythics focused almost entirely on this matter, before there was a Jace, BSA, Elspeth, Vengevine or Gideon. I think with Jace the annoyance is particularly acute because its main use is as a super-utility spell, your choice of a reusable brainstorm, a number of unsummons and a limited sensei's divining top. The assurance given by Mark Rosewater that mythics would "not just be a list of each set's most powerful tournament-level cards" seems very hollow now.


I doubt many of the pro players or people in large playgroup with enough $ or luck realize how bad Mythics (and Jace V2 in general) are affecting the game. If you don't want to play some scrub deck and get rolled over by everyone you pretty much *have* to play Jace if you want to play anything with blue in it. Even if you would want to spend the 300+ $ to get a playset its hard to get because the supply can not keep up with the demand because of the mythic rarity.




I mean if it where hurting standard people wouldnt be paying 80. If it where in low supply SCG wouldnt have 90. It might be hurting your ability(and mine) to play blue, but I think its a little incorrect to say that reflects the larger market.




I take your point, although it doesn't quite follow that because people are currently paying this amount that it isn't hurting standard. I feel we are in a transition period. There's a lot of people who are invested in Magic, socially, emotionally, by dint of their collections, by habit, whatever, who may very well be hanging in there by the tips of their fingers.

But there is evidence of a disenfranchisement of players towards standard, which is troubling becuase I still understand it to be key to Magic's long-term future.
From the winning decklist it looks like it is about the time that WotC gave Jace the same treatment as Skullclamp got. There were different archetypes back in the days of clamp, and the reason it got banned then was it was used practically in almost every deck. Looks like Jace is getting here. 


Bohoo. Cards are expensive.  Go cry in one of the 1,000,000 other threads.
 



Dude, I played T1 and did spend quite a bit of money on single cards. You completely missed the point here. First its not about card prices per se that people are upset, its mostly because these are standard players. There is something wrong when people who play one of the supposed more "new player friendly" formats have pretty much to either spend a very high amount on Jace or can't play many of the current best decks to the best of their ability. Second, MTG Daily is not a column for "pros" (they know of all the decks and "techs" that get discussed here already). What is the point of talking about the incredible game plan "put Jace and some other mythics everywhere" for such an audience?
Third, as other people pointed out it gets stupid how this card dominates the deck lists. If the T8 of several tournaments has 6 of 8 decks playing with 3-4 of this card there is something wrong.


From the winning decklist it looks like it is about the time that WotC gave Jace the same treatment as Skullclamp got. There were different archetypes back in the days of clamp, and the reason it got banned then was it was used practically in almost every deck. Looks like Jace is getting here. 





I would entirely support banning Jace, but unfortunately I think my motives would be less than pure. I'm sick of the card appearing in every other standard deck list, 3-4 copies, for all the reasons given above. However I think this doesn't fully meet the criteria for ban-worthiness. I would much rather that Wizards recognized that the super-chase-mythic experiment is having an overwhelmingly negative effect and reversed it (fat chance I know), rather than use the ban-hammer to trim it every now and then.

Believe me, I want jace to be banned, but its probably not the right remedy. And even it were, having unleashed the $90 new card on the world, I doubt they would have the cojones to do that.


I hear theorycraft is what gets you multiple high level event t8s.

But I guess it is only fitting that you are spouting completely unproven (in results!) theorycraft and championing Jund, of all decks.




this is where you quote multiple high level event t8s with emeria angels
oh wait...



I was talking about you trying to say that Emeria Angel was a poor choice without even knowing why it was in the deck.

Not sure if you noticed, but Mike Flores publicly shamed your poor logic on twitter...
"Stop *****ing, start brewing" -YoMTGTaps Trying to talk Magic players off ledges since 2001. Sharing my knowledge of rumor history, and how to discuss rumors effectively.


Bohoo. Cards are expensive.  Go cry in one of the 1,000,000 other threads.
 





Dude, I played T1 and did spend quite a bit of money on single cards. You completely missed the point here. First its not about card prices per se that people are upset, its mostly because these are standard players. There is something wrong when people who play one of the supposed more "new player friendly" formats have pretty much to either spend a very high amount on Jace or can't play many of the current best decks to the best of their ability. Second, MTG Daily is not a column for "pros" (they know of all the decks and "techs" that get discussed here already). What is the point of talking about the incredible game plan "put Jace and some other mythics everywhere" for such an audience?
Third, as other people pointed out it gets stupid how this card dominates the deck lists. If the T8 of several tournaments has 6 of 8 decks playing with 3-4 of this card there is something wrong.






It's not that I don't agree with you (I do), but there are much better places to voice your opinion.  I'd prefer to discuss viability/card choices/matchups of these decks than for every thread to be a complaint about how decks run Jace.  I think we have 2 or 3 Jace threads running around in the standard fourms right now, so feel free to complain away.


As it is, I've tested out the turboland build and I like it a lot.  You strait up die to any form of RDWs, but if you can make it past the early rounds where RDWs becomes less present, you have a pretty good matchup against the rest of the field.