No Paper Tigers!!!!: The Monk Handbook

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For a dagger monk, is jagged basically the best enchantment, or would say, static damage from frost cheese or radiant be better?

Was also curious if you think Ring of the Dragonborn Emperor (+3 item bonus to damage with close attacks) is worth it for a monk embracing the multi-target side of the class (though obviously not if using a radiant weapon of +3 or more).


Frost and Radiant will get you more damage per round than Jagged.  In Epic, stonefist monks will easily qualify for Light Blade Mastery, but even at level 30 that's only getting you 1.5ish dpr on a single target.
For a dagger monk, is jagged basically the best enchantment, or would say, static damage from frost cheese or radiant be better?

Was also curious if you think Ring of the Dragonborn Emperor (+3 item bonus to damage with close attacks) is worth it for a monk embracing the multi-target side of the class (though obviously not if using a radiant weapon of +3 or more).



Best Daggers for area users:
For Halflings: Goblin totem.
1) Radiant (in Late Paragon and Epic)
2) Frost (In Paragon and Epic Tier with feat support, otherwise skip it)
3) Jagged, Ki

Ring of the Dragonborn Emperor is a solid paragon level ring for monks that use lots of area attacks and don't get an item bonus on their weapon.  This ring with a Ki, Frost, or Jagged weapon is a nice combination.  


Subtle has been changed to item bonus now. So if you're using a dagger for starblade flurry get a subtle dagger +6. On the plus side, you don't need staff of ruin or radiant weapons for their item bonuses.
Subtle has been changed to item bonus now. So if you're using a dagger for starblade flurry get a subtle dagger +6. On the plus side, you don't need staff of ruin or radiant weapons for their item bonuses.



They also changed the property to make sure you attacked with the weapon.  With the previous wording, some DMs, and CB, allowed it to work in the off-hand. It's still a decent item for a Centered Breath monk with Deadly Draw, but it's not super by any means.

Frost and Radiant will get you more damage per round than Jagged.  In Epic, stonefist monks will easily qualify for Light Blade Mastery, but even at level 30 that's only getting you 1.5ish dpr on a single target.



Light Blade Mastery (and any of the masteries for that fact) doesn't work for Monks.  The Masteries specifically note that it is a weapon attack getting the crit range but Monks make implement attacks, so don't qualify - even though they are using weapons.




Frost and Radiant will get you more damage per round than Jagged.  In Epic, stonefist monks will easily qualify for Light Blade Mastery, but even at level 30 that's only getting you 1.5ish dpr on a single target.



Light Blade Mastery (and any of the masteries for that fact) doesn't work for Monks.  The Masteries specifically note that it is a weapon attack getting the crit range but Monks make implement attacks, so don't qualify - even though they are using weapons.






Yep, Unarmed Mastery is the only one that works for monk attacks, and even then it only works for melee attacks.  This means you need to rely on weapon propeties of paragon paths if you want an extended critical range. 
Thanks for the help and answers thus far.  I do have one more question that I can think of off the top of my head.  Does Siberys Shard of Radiance (SSoR) work with the monk burst powers?  Was looking at them and wasn't sure becaue of the different wording between it and Siberys Shard of the Mage, which specifically states implement attacks in it, where SSoR only says "attacks that use the augmented weapon."
Thanks for the help and answers thus far.  I do have one more question that I can think of off the top of my head.  Does Siberys Shard of Radiance (SSoR) work with the monk burst powers?  Was looking at them and wasn't sure becaue of the different wording between it and Siberys Shard of the Mage, which specifically states implement attacks in it, where SSoR only says "attacks that use the augmented weapon."



You use weapons as your implements, so it works.  I believe the the CB already calculates it in for you.  However, unless you plan on using a lot of radiant melee basics, you're going to do as well, or better, with the shard of the mage.
Plan was to abuse Radiant cheese from another party member provding most of the radiant stuff, though I'm thinking of going Radiant Fist (I'll be going first most of the time) so that I can apply raidiant vuln (even if just 5) with the level 11 power they get.  I'll post the full build later for thoughts and critiques, but it's getting late now :P

Plan was to abuse Radiant cheese from another party member provding most of the radiant stuff, though I'm thinking of going Radiant Fist (I'll be going first most of the time) so that I can apply raidiant vuln (even if just 5) with the level 11 power they get.  I'll post the full build later for thoughts and critiques, but it's getting late now :P




Remember that FoB and your attacks have are completely seperate.  This means that if something has radiant vulnerability, and you hit them with a radiant attack (from a Sunblade or Radiant Weapon) and a radiant FoB (from Radiant Fist), they take their vulnerable damage twice.   
I was also planning on taking radiant fist, but I think using a radiant weapon only pays off if other party members can also impose radiant vulnerability.
I'm still working on a complete comparison, but I think Ki weapons and Frost weapons are the better options, even for radiant fists

-Enaloindir 
Actually, speaking of builds, I'd love some thoughts on my Gith Centered Breath Polearm Momentum using Monk.  I'm trying to be an effective substitute for a Controller in a 4 man party (Me, some sort of Avenger, Dwarven Hammer RunePriest and a Dragonborn Shield Hammer fighter taking cues from Tank 3.0)

I'd note that my AC is 31 against Opportunity attacks before any movement technique bonuses.

Thoughts?  The Lightning Weapon and mark of the storm let me slide 2 on enemies I hit, which should let me move one completely around me before I push them 3 squares with Dragons tail, but maybe that's not necessary.

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Ferzth, level 11
Githzerai, Monk, Radiant Fist
Monastic Tradition: Centered Breath
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Spear)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Ki Focuses)
Background: Athlete (+2 to Athletics)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 11, Dex 23, Int 11, Wis 19, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 10, Dex 18, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8.


AC: 27 Fort: 22 Reflex: 25 Will: 23
HP: 81 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 20

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +10, Insight +14, Perception +14, Acrobatics +18, Athletics +18

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +5, Bluff +4, Diplomacy +4, Dungeoneering +9, Endurance +5, Heal +9, History +5, Intimidate +4, Nature +9, Stealth +11, Streetwise +4, Thievery +11

FEATS
Radiant Fist: Solar Enemy
Level 1: Versatile Expertise
Level 2: Mark of Storm
Level 4: Cyclone Warrior
Level 6: Polearm Momentum
Level 8: Deadly Draw
Level 10: Miryath's First Strike (retrained to Zuoken's Centering at Level 11)
Level 11: Starblade Flurry

POWERS
Monk at-will 1: Crane's Wings
Monk at-will 1: Five Storms
Monk encounter 1: Drunken Monkey
Monk daily 1: Masterful Spiral
Monk utility 2: Supreme Flurry
Monk encounter 3: Fallen Hammer in Repose (Monk Attack 3 Dragon 389 pg. 77)
Monk daily 5: Supreme Avalanche Combination
Monk utility 6: Centered Defense
Monk encounter 7: Strike the Avalanche
Monk daily 9: Twilight Touch
Monk utility 10: Iron Dragon Defense

ITEMS
Monk Unarmed Strike, Rushing Cleats (heroic tier), Gauntlets of the Ram (heroic tier), Summoned Githweave Armor +3, Periapt of Cascading Health +2, Pelor's Sun Blessing (level 3), Belt of Vim (heroic tier), Bracers of Enforced Regret (heroic tier), Lightning Spear +2, Rhythm Blade Accurate dagger +1, Eager Hero's Tattoo (heroic tier), Elusive Action Ki Focus +1
====== Copy to Clipboard and Press the Import Button on the Summary Tab ======
 




Okay, here's some math results. The comparison is between a ki weapon and a frost weapon with Lasting Frost.

This is all done for a Githzerai Centered Breath Monk with a focus on single-target damage. I'm sure there might be a more optimal build, but this is what I play at the table (currently at lvl 8)
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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Monk, level 15
Githzerai, Monk
Monastic Tradition: Centered Breath
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Ki Focuses)
Background: Geography - Mountains, Occupation - Scholar, Parentage - Monk Business, Early Life - Well-Loved (+2 to Athletics)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 15, Con 11, Dex 22, Int 11, Wis 19, Cha 9.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 14, Con 10, Dex 17, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8.


AC: 29 Fort: 22 Reflex: 25 Will: 22
HP: 101 Surges: 11 Surge Value: 25

TRAINED SKILLS
Stealth +18, Perception +16, Athletics +20, Religion +12

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +15, Arcana +7, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Dungeoneering +11, Endurance +9, Heal +11, History +7, Insight +11, Intimidate +6, Nature +11, Streetwise +6, Thievery +13

FEATS
Level 1: Unarmored Agility
Level 2: Githzerai Blade Master
Level 4: Melee Training (Dexterity)
Level 6: Deadly Draw
Level 8: Weapon Proficiency (Parrying dagger)
Level 10: Powerful Charge OR Lasting Frost
Level 11: Effortless Motion
Level 12: Zuoken's Centering
Level 14: Versatile Expertise

POWERS
Monk at-will 1: Crane's Wings
Monk at-will 1: Five Storms

ITEMS
Monk Unarmed Strike, Rhythm Blade Parrying dagger +1, Iron Armbands of Power (paragon tier), Gloves of Ice (paragon tier), Ki Bastard sword +3, Frost Bastard sword +3, Horned Helm (heroic tier), Siberys Shard of the Mage (paragon tier)
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I focus on the damage against frontline enemies (Brute, Soldier, Controller), and use the average defenses listed a few pages back as a reference.

Single-round damage:
  • Single target (charging always outdamages Five Storms, even if you can attack two targets for better odds at landing your Flurry of Blows)
    • vs. brute: 22.06 DPR for frost weapon, 24.90 DPR for ki weapon (25.16 & 28.40 with CA)

    • vs. soldier: 16.88 DPR for frost weapon, 19.06 DPR for ki weapon (19.98 & 22.56 with CA)

    • vs. controller: 19.39 DPR for frost weapon, 21.89 DPR for ki weapon (22.49 & 25.39 with CA)


  • Two targets, total damage
    • vs. brute: 35.36 DPR for frost weapon, 38.84 DPR for ki weapon (40.00 & 43.73 with CA)

    • vs. soldier: 31.47 DPR for frost weapon, 34.69 DPR for ki weapon (36.31 & 39.84 with CA)

    • vs. controller: 32.16 DPR for frost weapon, 35.43 DPR for ki weapon (36.96 & 40.54 with CA)


  • Two targets, weighted damage (second enemy counts only half)
    • vs. brute: 26.52 DPR for frost weapon, 29.13 DPR for ki weapon (30.00 & 32.80 with CA)

    • vs. soldier: 23.60 DPR for frost weapon, 26.02 DPR for ki weapon (27.23 & 29.88 with CA)

    • vs. controller: 24.12 DPR for frost weapon, 26.57 DPR for ki weapon (27.72 & 30.40 with CA)


The fact that the frost weapon deals less damage is quite normal here, as the monk started with a "fresh" enemy, without cold vulnerability.
Therefore, I also looked at a 3-round scenario. The first round is an attack against a fresh enemy. On the following rounds, the odds of having CA and cold vulnerability are determined by the results of the previous round. This gives these results:

Three-round damage:
  • Single target
    • vs. brute: 25.62 DPR for frost weapon, 26.65 DPR for ki weapon

    • vs. soldier: 19.29 DPR for frost weapon, 20.39 DPR for ki weapon

    • vs. controller: 22.34 DPR for frost weapon, 23.42 DPR for ki weapon


  • Two targets, total damage
    • vs. brute: 39.82 DPR for frost weapon, 41.76 DPR for ki weapon

    • vs. soldier: 35.48 DPR for frost weapon, 37.56 DPR for ki weapon

    • vs. controller: 36.25 DPR for frost weapon, 38.32 DPR for ki weapon


  • Two targets, weighted damage
    • vs. brute: 30.28 DPR for frost weapon, 31.32 DPR for ki weapon

    • vs. soldier: 26.94 DPR for frost weapon, 28.17 DPR for ki weapon

    • vs. controller: 27.53 DPR for frost weapon, 28.74 DPR for ki weapon



Again, the Ki weapon outdamages the Frostcheese, any way you cut it.
You can also add more/better charge-enhancing items or higher static modifiers. this does not influence the gap between both builds.

I have also done the analysis for a Vanguard weapon instead of a Ki weapon. In that case, Frost is better when you deal with multiple targets at once (logical, as you can't charge in that case).

So, the way I see it, you're better off going with a Ki weapon: your single-target damage over three rounds is better, and you have a bit better crowd control.


-Enaloindir

*EDIT* The sample ki weapon build used Powerful Charge instead of TWF in my computations
Did you add gloves of ice and Siberys shard of merciless cold in there for an additional  +5 damage per target per round regardless of vulerability.
I gave both builds the same magic items, so no. I'll check the results with these items.

*EDIT: here are the results*

In my original analysis, I used a Syberis Shard of the Mage (paragon) for both builds. Now, I use a Syberis Shard of Merciless Cold and Gloves of Ice for the frost build instead. The frost build has spent 5,000 more gp on items, so there results are a bit skewed...

Because you can apply the benefits of the cold shard to your charge attacks, the frost build becomes better for single-target damage. If you don't have Gloves of Ice, the Ki weapon is still better when you spread the damage around.

Only Shard of Merciless cold (over 3 rounds)
  • Single target
    • vs. brute: 27.91 DPR for frost weapon, 26.65 for ki weapon

    • vs. soldier: 21.04 DPR for frost weapon, 20.39 for ki weapon

    • vs. controller: 24.34 DPR for frost weapon, 23.42 for ki weapon


  • Two targets, total damage
    • vs. brute: 39.82 DPR for frost weapon, 41.76 DPR for ki weapon

    • vs. soldier: 35.48 DPR for frost weapon, 37.56 DPR for ki weapon

    • vs. controller: 36.25 DPR for frost weapon, 38.32 DPR for ki weapon


  • Two targets, weighted damage (second enemy counts only half)
    • vs. brute: 30.28 DPR for frost weapon, 31.32 DPR for ki weapon

    • vs. soldier: 26.94 DPR for frost weapon, 28.17 DPR for ki weapon

    • vs. controller: 27.53 DPR for frost weapon, 28.74 DPR for ki weapon



If you also add Gloves of Ice:
  • Single target
    • vs. brute: 29.43 DPR for frost weapon, 26.65 for ki weapon

    • vs. soldier: 22.20 DPR for frost weapon, 20.39 for ki weapon

    • vs. controller: 25.68 DPR for frost weapon, 23.42 for ki weapon


  • Two targets, total damage
    • vs. brute: 42.61 DPR for frost weapon, 41.76 DPR for ki weapon

    • vs. soldier: 37.94 DPR for frost weapon, 37.56 DPR for ki weapon

    • vs. controller: 38.77 DPR for frost weapon, 38.32 DPR for ki weapon


  • Two targets, weighted damage (second enemy counts only half)
    • vs. brute: 32.38 DPR for frost weapon, 31.32 DPR for ki weapon

    • vs. soldier: 28.79 DPR for frost weapon, 28.17 DPR for ki weapon

    • vs. controller: 29.42 DPR for frost weapon, 28.74 DPR for ki weapon



This last case clearly pushes the odds in favor of the frost build...


-Enaloindir
 
So you have a slide 1+slide2+push+3+prone, which is really nice.  However, you need to remember that unless you push something outside of charge range or have some other kind of hindrance set up (like a fighter OA), you're only limiting the kind of attacks the enemy is making.  As you're going for radiant vulnerability, I'd aim for a Crown of the Brilliant Sun to convert your lightning damage to radiant if it is advantageous for you.  It also looks like you have a good party for radiant optimization

Also, with this setup, you might seriously consider taking melee training+repel charge to make it difficult for creatures without reach to charge you after you slide them away.

Actually, speaking of builds, I'd love some thoughts on my Gith Centered Breath Polearm Momentum using Monk.  I'm trying to be an effective substitute for a Controller in a 4 man party (Me, some sort of Avenger, Dwarven Hammer RunePriest and a Dragonborn Shield Hammer fighter taking cues from Tank 3.0)

I'd note that my AC is 31 against Opportunity attacks before any movement technique bonuses.

Thoughts?  The Lightning Weapon and mark of the storm let me slide 2 on enemies I hit, which should let me move one completely around me before I push them 3 squares with Dragons tail, but maybe that's not necessary.



I gave both builds the same magic items, so no. I'll check the results with these items.

*EDIT: here are the results*
Because you can apply the benefits of the cold shard to your charge attacks, the frost build becomes better for single-target damage. If you don't have Gloves of Ice, the Ki weapon is still better when you spread the damage around.

This last case clearly pushes the odds in favor of the frost build...



Thanks for the analysis!

This conclusion assumied that the creatures have no cold resistance, which is a relatively common resist at paragon and epic tier.  If a creature has resist cold, the Ki Weapon will do more damage.  Ki Weapon users also have Gauntlets of Blood, which are a decent substitute for Gloves of Ice. 

One other thing, Centered Breath have CA readily available via Deadly Draw.  Stone Fist don't have this easy access to CA.  For Stone Fist, Wintertouched would therefore be a good feat.

In short, Frost Weapons seem to be a bit better for Stone Fist.  Ki Weapons are probably a bit better for Centered Breath. 

 
I gave both builds the same magic items, so no. I'll check the results with these items.

*EDIT: here are the results*
Because you can apply the benefits of the cold shard to your charge attacks, the frost build becomes better for single-target damage. If you don't have Gloves of Ice, the Ki weapon is still better when you spread the damage around.

This last case clearly pushes the odds in favor of the frost build...



Thanks for the analysis!

This conclusion assumied that the creatures have no cold resistance, which is a relatively common resist at paragon and epic tier.  If a creature has resist cold, the Ki Weapon will do more damage.  Ki Weapon users also have Gauntlets of Blood, which are a decent substitute for Gloves of Ice. 

One other thing, Centered Breath have CA readily available via Deadly Draw.  Stone Fist don't have this easy access to CA.  For Stone Fist, Wintertouched would therefore be a good feat.

In short, Frost Weapons seem to be a bit better for Stone Fist.  Ki Weapons are probably a bit better for Centered Breath. 

 


I'm don't really agree -- the gauntlets of ice can push through 5 resistance at paragon, 10 at epic (at the cost of 2 and 4 damage)... the number of creatures that have more than that ice restistance are minimal. So I would guess you probably have frost weapon being noticably better against non ice resitsant creatures  and about equal against ice resitant creatures.

I think the limiting factor is feat expenditure... if you have 2 feats lying around for frostcheese and don't mind using your glove slot, I think it's strictly superior for all builds.



Basic Nova Tactic of this Build:


-Step 1 (Move Action): I shift 2 Squares (Five Storm movement technique) in the center of 7 opponents. Alternatively, I can allow myself to be surrounded by targets and wait for them to come at me (use Full Defense in the meantime, Personal Buffs like Centered Defense and/or use Magic Items). Ultimately, I'm surrounded by 7 adjacent targets, left with 1 unoccupied adjacent square and have an extra target 2 squares away who is also adjacent to the unoccupied square next to me.

-Step2 (Standard Action): I use Watchful Hydra Stance, Monk Daily Power, on all 8 targets. Damage here is calculated considering I hit all targets normally (which is most likely scenario since I don't have an improved crit range with Monk Implement Powers).

Average Damage per target: 18(Power)+15(Bonuses)+9(FoB)= 42 damage
Total Average (all 8 targets together): 42*8= 336 damage

Max Damage per target (no Crit): 36(Power)+15(Bonuses)+9(FoB)= 60 damage
Total Max Damage (no Crit, all 8 targets together): 480 damage

-Step 3 (Free Action): I slide each adjacent target (8 targets total) 1 square to a square adjacent to me and gain CA against them until the end of my next turn (so 2 rounds total).

*Here is an illustration of how I would slide the targets:

 Starting with target #5, I slide all targets Clockwise and then move target 8 into the empty square.

Step1:  1 2 3              Step2:  4 1 2
              4 X 5                           6 X 3
              6 7 E                           7 8 5
                 8                                         

X: Me
E: Empty Space
1-8: targets 1 to 8



i have not read all the posts since this was posted so apologies if someone has already mocked this...
but there is no way this would EVER happen at any gaming table i have ever played at in 15 years of gaming.

if a pc runs to a group of monsters uses total defence the monsters would not surround them unless their wisdom is what....8 or lower as it so obviously a trap!
maybe with a fighter/monk using come and get it this would work.
secondly you're giving at least 7 enemies attacks on you first, most with CA..better hope they are not brutes or CA bonus damage enemies
prancing in front of them doing total defence is giving them a free go, why would they attack the one pc not attacking them first?

however if you've got a group tailoring all their powers to slides/pushes and pulls then maybe this hugely theoretical plan could work.

however all those other pcs could focus on their own damage instead whereupon the group will do more damage rather than the above, which i note  uses two daily powers out of the 3 available at the time.

finally an encounter with 8 enemies of which none are minions??? plus others presumably engaging the rest of the party or in some other way not being involved in this "vacuum" encounter where everything happens to work exactly the way you  want it to
I think the limiting factor is feat expenditure... if you have 2 feats lying around for frostcheese and don't mind using your glove slot, I think it's strictly superior for all builds.


A Centered Breath monk probably already has Deadly Draw, so you don't need Wintertouched, only Lasting Frost. The damage bump from Lasting Frost is higher than from Powerful Charge or Two-Weapon Fighting, so it's one of the better offensive feats.

I'll do the analysis again later on to see how the alternate use of the Gloves of Ice affects the balance.

-Enaloindir 

Basic Nova Tactic of this Build:


-Step 1 (Move Action): I shift 2 Squares (Five Storm movement technique) in the center of 7 opponents. Alternatively, I can allow myself to be surrounded by targets and wait for them to come at me (use Full Defense in the meantime, Personal Buffs like Centered Defense and/or use Magic Items). Ultimately, I'm surrounded by 7 adjacent targets, left with 1 unoccupied adjacent square and have an extra target 2 squares away who is also adjacent to the unoccupied square next to me.

-Step2 (Standard Action): I use Watchful Hydra Stance, Monk Daily Power, on all 8 targets. Damage here is calculated considering I hit all targets normally (which is most likely scenario since I don't have an improved crit range with Monk Implement Powers).

Average Damage per target: 18(Power)+15(Bonuses)+9(FoB)= 42 damage
Total Average (all 8 targets together): 42*8= 336 damage

Max Damage per target (no Crit): 36(Power)+15(Bonuses)+9(FoB)= 60 damage
Total Max Damage (no Crit, all 8 targets together): 480 damage

-Step 3 (Free Action): I slide each adjacent target (8 targets total) 1 square to a square adjacent to me and gain CA against them until the end of my next turn (so 2 rounds total).

*Here is an illustration of how I would slide the targets:

 Starting with target #5, I slide all targets Clockwise and then move target 8 into the empty square.

Step1:  1 2 3              Step2:  4 1 2
              4 X 5                           6 X 3
              6 7 E                           7 8 5
                 8                                         

X: Me
E: Empty Space
1-8: targets 1 to 8



i have not read all the posts since this was posted so apologies if someone has already mocked this...
but there is no way this would EVER happen at any gaming table i have ever played at in 15 years of gaming.

if a pc runs to a group of monsters uses total defence the monsters would not surround them unless their wisdom is what....8 or lower as it so obviously a trap!
maybe with a fighter/monk using come and get it this would work.
secondly you're giving at least 7 enemies attacks on you first, most with CA..better hope they are not brutes or CA bonus damage enemies
prancing in front of them doing total defence is giving them a free go, why would they attack the one pc not attacking them first?

however if you've got a group tailoring all their powers to slides/pushes and pulls then maybe this hugely theoretical plan could work.

however all those other pcs could focus on their own damage instead whereupon the group will do more damage rather than the above, which i note  uses two daily powers out of the 3 available at the time.

finally an encounter with 8 enemies of which none are minions??? plus others presumably engaging the rest of the party or in some other way not being involved in this "vacuum" encounter where everything happens to work exactly the way you  want it to


 It's not perfect, but the monk is pretty likely go first (high dex and other initive bonuses), while enemies may still be clumped up to at least get the most number of targets hit.  Also, because the monk moves by shifting, no OA's are granted to the enemies, since shifting doesn't provoke an OA.

If the party in general is optimzed enough, having 8 non minions might be pretty common actually, just in order to give the party something to actually worry about :P  Even if it's not, monks are good minion killers anyway because their mutliple target abilites. It does eat up a daily, but the Close Burst on WAtchful Hydra Stance is actually 3, so they can hit quite a few more targets potenially, but only 8 will take the FoB damage.
The build I've been working on.  A few notes before I post it:
1) We get Versatile Expertise as a free feat at level 5.
2) I went defense crazy (short of being Gith because it's not allowed) because the party doesn't have a true defender, just this monk with the high defenses.
3) I'm trying to take advantage of some radient maffia stuff, as we have a cleric who is going to provide a good chunk of it starting at level 3, and scaling up through Morninglord eventually.
4) I don't have a feat selected for level 30.  I really don't know what to take, nothing really pops out at me.

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
radient monk, level 30
Human, Monk, Radiant Fist, Diamond Soul
Build: Centered Breath Monk
Monastic Tradition: Centered Breath
Background: Auspicious Birth (Auspicious Birth Benefit)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 12, Con 13, Dex 30, Int 12, Wis 22, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 11, Dex 18, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8.


AC: 48 Fort: 45 Reflex: 51 Will: 49
HP: 187 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 46

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +30, Perception +26, Athletics +21, Religion +21, Stealth +30

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +16, Bluff +15, Diplomacy +15, Dungeoneering +21, Endurance +16, Heal +21, History +16, Insight +21, Intimidate +15, Nature +21, Streetwise +15, Thievery +25

FEATS
Radiant Fist: Solar Enemy
Human: Deadly Draw
Level 1: Unarmored Agility
Level 2: Superior Implement Training (Accurate dagger)
Level 4: Weapon Proficiency (Parrying dagger)
Level 6: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 8: Two-Weapon Defense
Level 10: Nimble Blade
Level 11: Starblade Flurry
Level 12: Paragon Defenses (retrained to Robust Defenses at Level 21)
Level 14: Weapon Focus (Light Blade)
Level 16: Defensive Advantage
Level 18: Mark of Passage
Level 20: Melee Training (Dexterity)
Level 21: Centered Master
Level 22: Epic Fortitude
Level 24: Epic Will
Level 26: Epic Reflexes
Level 28: Superior Initiative

POWERS
Bonus At-Will Power: Five Storms
Monastic Perfection: Whirlwind Kick
Monastic Perfection: Celestial Drunken Boxer
Monk at-will 1: Crane's Wings
Monk at-will 1: Dragon's Tail
Monk encounter 1: Drunken Monkey
Monk daily 1: Masterful Spiral
Monk utility 2: Supreme Flurry
Monk encounter 3: Eternal Mountain
Monk daily 5: Spinning Leopard Maneuver
Monk utility 6: Centered Defense
Monk encounter 7: Strike the Avalanche
Monk daily 9: Twilight Touch
Monk utility 10: Iron Dragon Defense
Monk encounter 13: Furious Bull (replaces Drunken Monkey)
Monk daily 15: Dancer on the Sea of Battle (replaces Spinning Leopard Maneuver)
Monk utility 16: Stance of the Still Sword
Monk encounter 17: Steps of Grasping Fire (replaces Eternal Mountain)
Monk daily 19: Rising Dragon Fire (replaces Twilight Touch)
Monk utility 22: Diamond Body
Monk encounter 23: Legion of One (replaces Strike the Avalanche)
Monk daily 25: Watchful Hydra Stance (replaces Masterful Spiral)
Monk encounter 27: Heart-Sundering Strike (replaces Steps of Grasping Fire)
Monk daily 29: Mist on the Storm (replaces Dancer on the Sea of Battle)

ITEMS
Monk Unarmed Strike, Adventurer's Kit, Radiant Accurate dagger +6, Battle Harness Mindpatterned Armor +6, Periapt of Cascading Health +6, Rhythm Blade Dagger +1, Ring of the Radiant Storm (paragon tier), Bracelet of the Radiant Storm (paragon tier), Eye of Awareness (epic tier), Gauntlets of Blood (epic tier), Ring of Protection (paragon tier), Siberys Shard of Radiance (epic tier), Tattoo of Vengeance (paragon tier), Diamond Cincture (paragon tier), Dice of Auspicious Fortune (paragon tier), Stone of Light (paragon tier), Phantom Chaussures (paragon tier), Queen's Staff +3, Spark Slippers (paragon tier), Crown of the Brilliant Sun (paragon tier)
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Defenses are slightly higher than listed due to Defensive Advantage and Phantom Chausers + Mark of Passage (use the move part of Five Storms, but hit with something else). AC 52 if I have combat advantage and concealment, fort 47, ref 53, will 51 with concealment. If people think my defenses are high enough without using the Phantom Chausers I would instead pick up a few +1 Staffs of the Traveler and the Boots of Caiphon for minor action, hp free teleporting. Doing this frees up another feat (no longer need Mark of Passage, which could already be retrained out at 24, but other than moving a feat up a level, I don't know what else I would take) and gives me teleport 8 as a minor action.

I have a +38 to attack (assuming CA).  Five Storms hits for 2d8 +10(dex) +5(SSoR) +6(ench) +6(item) +5(Set bonus from Gifts for the Queen), and +5(radient vulnerability from just my Solar Enemy power) = +37.  (DPR calc says this is 40.50 DPR for a single target, though hopefully I'm hitting more). I can also reroll the 2d8 and take the higher result (ring). If an enemy is bloodied, I do another +6 (gloves). If an enemy crits me, I get another +6 against that enemy for the rest of the encounter (tattoo).

I did have a question about how set bonuses work.  Do the items actually have to be worn, or can they just be carried in a backpack? If they must be worn, my damage drops by 3.

I'm not entirely sure if my feats are in a playable or optimized order and would really appreciate feedback on them. I'm also not sure about taking Melee Training. I know it's good, but OA's are pretty rare with this GM and the party warlord has the one at will (and most of his other powers) that give just basic attacks, either ranged or melee, and I have a good RBA.

Also interested if you see anything anything else I can do to up my damage/accuracy more :P



so not to nitpick much...the combat starts 2 squares away from an perfect circle of non-minions and then the build does good damage using 2 dailies(monk one then rogue one).

typically first round pc's would be further than 2 squares away from bunched monsters like that i find and at high enough levels enemies tend to be large which reduces the amount of monsters you can attack at one time

using two dailies i would expect most classes to dish out significant hurt to be honest

so not to nitpick much...the combat starts 2 squares away from an perfect circle of non-minions and then the build does good damage using 2 dailies(monk one then rogue one).

typically first round pc's would be further than 2 squares away from bunched monsters like that i find and at high enough levels enemies tend to be large which reduces the amount of monsters you can attack at one time

using two dailies i would expect most classes to dish out significant hurt to be honest



In the section of it you quoted, at least for me, I only saw 1 daily, which was the monk one.  What is the other power they use?  Is it Steel Entrapment?  If so, that's an encounter power.

Depending on party make up, a warlord could close the gap pretty easily for the monk such that a shift 2 might just work to get you into position.

I do agree that the above example is a tofu example, and that it's not likely to happen, but it's still an entertaining thought to think about.  Also, if the powers are Steel Entrapment and Watchful Hydra Stance, you will likely get your 8 targets, just not all of them will be FoB. It does show a realtive weakness of monks (though really, could be said for any AoE damage class).  Damage spread out isn't generally as good as just a monster being dead.  That said, I'm now going to make a party of 4 who has nothing but AoE attacks, just to see what it could do :P
The build I've been working on.  A few notes before I post it:
1) We get Versatile Expertise as a free feat at level 5.
2) I went defense crazy (short of being Gith because it's not allowed) because the party doesn't have a true defender, just this monk with the high defenses.
3) I'm trying to take advantage of some radient maffia stuff, as we have a cleric who is going to provide a good chunk of it starting at level 3, and scaling up through Morninglord eventually.
4) I don't have a feat selected for level 30.  I really don't know what to take, nothing really pops out at me.



Given your situation, I think your build is solid overall. 


Defenses are slightly higher than listed due to Defensive Advantage and Phantom Chausers + Mark of Passage (use the move part of Five Storms, but hit with something else). AC 52 if I have combat advantage and concealment, fort 47, ref 53, will 51 with concealment. If people think my defenses are high enough without using the Phantom Chausers I would instead pick up a few +1 Staffs of the Traveler and the Boots of Caiphon for minor action, hp free teleporting. Doing this frees up another feat (no longer need Mark of Passage, which could already be retrained out at 24, but other than moving a feat up a level, I don't know what else I would take) and gives me teleport 8 as a minor action.


A Cloak of Translocation would also raise you defenses if you went the teleport route.  If you decide to get rid of the Phantom Chausers, you could get a Shadow Band, which is expensive but very nice.  I also didn't see any item bonuses to defenses, but I didn't have time to look at all of your items.


I have a +38 to attack (assuming CA).  Five Storms hits for 2d8 +10(dex) +5(SSoR) +6(ench) +6(item) +5(Set bonus from Gifts for the Queen), and +5(radient vulnerability from just my Solar Enemy power) = +37.  (DPR calc says this is 40.50 DPR for a single target, though hopefully I'm hitting more). I can also reroll the 2d8 and take the higher result (ring). If an enemy is bloodied, I do another +6 (gloves). If an enemy crits me, I get another +6 against that enemy for the rest of the encounter (tattoo).


I think you might have forgotten to add in your FoB into the character builder.  You also forgot Weapon Focus and TWF.  Radiant Fist FoB is also radiant, so you will get another dose of radiant vulnerability there.  So that is 17 damage that wasn't added in given your conditions.  You single target damage is probably a around 54.  This isn't wonderful, but as a multi-attacker with great defenses, this should do just fine. 


I did have a question about how set bonuses work.  Do the items actually have to be worn, or can they just be carried in a backpack? If they must be worn, my damage drops by 3.



I saw some cust serv response saying that shealthed weapons counted toward the item set, but I don't remember anything about items that need to be worn. 


I'm not entirely sure if my feats are in a playable or optimized order and would really appreciate feedback on them. I'm also not sure about taking Melee Training. I know it's good, but OA's are pretty rare with this GM and the party warlord has the one at will (and most of his other powers) that give just basic attacks, either ranged or melee, and I have a good RBA.

Also interested if you see anything anything else I can do to up my damage/accuracy more :P



If you're starting from level 1, I'd switch Deadly Draw with Superior Implement.  Any melee character playing with a warlord should take melee training if they already lack a nice melee basic.  I'd play it by ear once you see what your warlord is doing, but you probably should be taking melee training earlier.  However, if you have some other nice damage dealers, taking it earlier might not be necessary.

For epic Destiny, I'd look at the Raven Knight.  It probably isn't the flavor you want, but it has some nice powers. 
@Furious_Kender:  Taking a look at your suggestions, reworked feats so that I get melee training at level 4, Implement at level 1.  Decided to go with the teleporting option with boots, so droped Mark of Passage and got Improved Init (retrain it epic version at 22).  I grabed Brutal Flurry and Long Step at 28 and 30 respectivly. Since I went teleport route, changed my neck to the one you suggested.

CB might not be right, but set items don't give a bonus if they arn't worn/sheathed, so my damage drops 2 from that set.

Read a bunch of posts about expected character wealth, convinced GM those were more or less accurate, and was then able to afford the Ring of Shadows.

Checked out Raven Knight, and yeah, it's pretty sweet, but I think I'm going to stick with Diamond Soul, or do Chosen/Demigod.  Very quick look at the other people in the party seems to show that we will (after 16th level) often have radiant vulnerabilty 15ish going, but can burst it up to 25 or so if we all use Solar Enemy, so I'll probably stick with Pelor as my deity over Raven Queen.

Nice catch on my damage with Five Storms, can't believe I forgot those somehow Frown

tl;dr:  Thanks a bunch and your comments and suggestions helped alot Smile
I have a quick general question. I'm building a monk for a 15-30 adventure and I was curious about how spiked gauntlets enchanted with weapon enhancments effect my attacks. One of the other players, who frequently keeps up with errata says if a weapon doesnt explicitly require you to attack with the weapon you can still add its "power" to your attack, for example:

Weapon (MH) : Ki Dagger +1
Weapon (OH) : Ki Dagger +1
Hand Slot : Ki Spiked Gauntlet +1

does this imply that I would get +6 on flurry of blows?

here are the exact wordings from CB

Spiked Gauntlet - "unlike weapons, the spiked gauntlet occupies your magic item hand slot while enchanted."

Ki Weapon - "Once per turn when you use your flurry of blows power, it deals 2 extra damage to it's targets."

Seems pretty straightforward but I got called out on it and I just wanted to see if anyone knew FOR SURE if this works, and if there are any better glove slots than +6 damage per round on non bloodied creatures at level 11

-Thanks!



In the section of it you quoted, at least for me, I only saw 1 daily, which was the monk one.  What is the other power they use?  Is it Steel Entrapment?  If so, that's an encounter power.

Depending on party make up, a warlord could close the gap pretty easily for the monk such that a shift 2 might just work to get you into position.

I do agree that the above example is a tofu example, and that it's not likely to happen, but it's still an entertaining thought to think about.  Also, if the powers are Steel Entrapment and Watchful Hydra Stance, you will likely get your 8 targets, just not all of them will be FoB. It does show a realtive weakness of monks (though really, could be said for any AoE damage class).  Damage spread out isn't generally as good as just a monster being dead.  That said, I'm now going to make a party of 4 who has nothing but AoE attacks, just to see what it could do :P



the original post from page 8 had a monk daily followed by AP and then rogue daily. i did not quote it allthough as it was a huge post.

i noted above that with some help from allies it was possible to set up something like this fairly easily, although then you've got a party using their powers to put together a double daily attack use like this instead of focusing on doing their own damage as slides/pushes etc tend to mean lower damage attacks too.

my point was merely that an encounter like that is hardly a regular occurance as it is suggested in the original post.
I have a quick general question. I'm building a monk for a 15-30 adventure and I was curious about how spiked gauntlets enchanted with weapon enhancments effect my attacks. One of the other players, who frequently keeps up with errata says if a weapon doesnt explicitly require you to attack with the weapon you can still add its "power" to your attack, for example:

Weapon (MH) : Ki Dagger +1
Weapon (OH) : Ki Dagger +1
Hand Slot : Ki Spiked Gauntlet +1

does this imply that I would get +6 on flurry of blows?

here are the exact wordings from CB

Spiked Gauntlet - "unlike weapons, the spiked gauntlet occupies your magic item hand slot while enchanted."

Ki Weapon - "Once per turn when you use your flurry of blows power, it deals 2 extra damage to it's targets."

Seems pretty straightforward but I got called out on it and I just wanted to see if anyone knew FOR SURE if this works, and if there are any better glove slots than +6 damage per round on non bloodied creatures at level 11

-Thanks!




do not think it works as all the bonuses are from the property ki focus and bonuses from the same source do not stack (even though 2 are weapons and one is a hands slot item i think this would still stand)
I have a quick general question. I'm building a monk for a 15-30 adventure and I was curious about how spiked gauntlets enchanted with weapon enhancments effect my attacks. One of the other players, who frequently keeps up with errata says if a weapon doesnt explicitly require you to attack with the weapon you can still add its "power" to your attack, for example:

Weapon (MH) : Ki Dagger +1
Weapon (OH) : Ki Dagger +1
Hand Slot : Ki Spiked Gauntlet +1

does this imply that I would get +6 on flurry of blows?

here are the exact wordings from CB

Spiked Gauntlet - "unlike weapons, the spiked gauntlet occupies your magic item hand slot while enchanted."

Ki Weapon - "Once per turn when you use your flurry of blows power, it deals 2 extra damage to it's targets."

Seems pretty straightforward but I got called out on it and I just wanted to see if anyone knew FOR SURE if this works, and if there are any better glove slots than +6 damage per round on non bloodied creatures at level 11

-Thanks!



I'm not an expert, but it seems to me that the gloves themselves only give you 2 extra damage, though your total is 6 extra per round from FoB because you have 3 ki weapons. 

Edited in later: but for some reason (probably due to me being very tired) I totally forgot that you'd be doing FoB to up to 3 targets, so yeah, the glvoes are +6, which is pretty nice.

the original post from page 8 had a monk daily followed by AP and then rogue daily. i did not quote it allthough as it was a huge post.

i noted above that with some help from allies it was possible to set up something like this fairly easily, although then you've got a party using their powers to put together a double daily attack use like this instead of focusing on doing their own damage as slides/pushes etc tend to mean lower damage attacks too.

my point was merely that an encounter like that is hardly a regular occurance as it is suggested in the original post.



I went back and read the enitre post.  It does "Average Total DPR: 801+28= 829 damage" and does indeed use 2 dailies.  In which case, you are pretty much right on all accounts.  However, a (I think) fairly similar build could be done using Steel Entrapment, which is only an encounter power on the rogue end and get similar results.  Potentially better actually because you may hit targets in the extra area you get.
I have a quick general question. I'm building a monk for a 15-30 adventure and I was curious about how spiked gauntlets enchanted with weapon enhancments effect my attacks. One of the other players, who frequently keeps up with errata says if a weapon doesnt explicitly require you to attack with the weapon you can still add its "power" to your attack, for example:

Weapon (MH) : Ki Dagger +1
Weapon (OH) : Ki Dagger +1
Hand Slot : Ki Spiked Gauntlet +1

does this imply that I would get +6 on flurry of blows?



Your example has two issues.  1) do offensive off-hand weapon properties ever apply if they aren't used to attack? 2) do bonuses from the same source stack 


The typical answer regarding weapon propoerties is that you only get weapon properties if you attack with the weapon.  This reading is from a section from the AV on weapon properties.  However, not everyone agrees with this and for a good long while the CB allowed off-hand weapon properties to work if they didn't need to be used in the attack.  They've errated most of the main offenders, such as Subtle Weapons. 

Strangely enough, implement properties do work in the off-hand, as per the FAQ.  For weapliments, like the monk uses, it's pretty much up the DM.  

Regarding whether bonuses from the same source stack, the answer is clearly no.  The errata specifies that bonuses from the "same named game element" never stack.  A Ki Weapon is a named game element.   
 


@Furious_Kender:   Thanks a bunch and your comments and suggestions helped alot



No problem.  I'm glad I could help. 

Thanks a ton for the help guys, now onward to my search for some good gloves lol!
Thanks a ton for the help guys, now onward to my search for some good gloves lol!



Gauntles of Blood are +2/4/6 to bloodied enemies.  If frostcheese is a vialbe option (remembering that you only need Lasting Frost, becuase you will likey have Deadly Draw fairly earlier for CA) then Gloves of Ice are +2/+4.  Think those are about as good as they get for bonus damage from glove slots.
So I finally finished my build, constructive criticism welcome.

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Ni'Mochai Ethosbourne, level 30
Elf, Monk, Kensei, Demigod
Monastic Tradition: Centered Breath
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Light Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Ki Focuses)
Kensei Focus: Kensei Focus Dagger
Divine Spark: Divine Spark Dexterity
Divine Spark: Divine Spark Wisdom

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 12, Dex 29, Int 12, Wis 26, Cha 10.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 13, Con 10, Dex 17, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 8.


AC: 46 Fort: 40 Reflex: 44 Will: 47
HP: 169 Surges: 8 Surge Value: 42

TRAINED SKILLS
Insight +28, Perception +30, Acrobatics +29, Athletics +23, Heal +28

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +16, Bluff +15, Diplomacy +15, Dungeoneering +23, Endurance +16, History +16, Intimidate +15, Nature +25, Religion +16, Stealth +24, Streetwise +15, Thievery +24

FEATS
Level 1: Nimble Blade
Level 2: Deadly Draw
Level 4: Cyclone Warrior
Level 6: Versatile Expertise
Level 8: Weapon Focus (Light Blade)
Level 10: Melee Training (Dexterity)
Level 11: Elven Precision
Level 12: Unarmored Agility
Level 14: Starblade Flurry
Level 16: Superior Implement Training (Accurate dagger)
Level 18: Mark of Passage
Level 20: Two-Weapon Fighting
Level 21: Power Attack
Level 22: Centered Master
Level 24: Slashing Storm
Level 26: Robust Defenses
Level 28: Defensive Advantage
Level 30: Hawkeye Warrior

POWERS
Monk at-will 1: Five Storms
Monk at-will 1: Dancing Cobra
Monk encounter 1: Rising Storm
Monk daily 1: Harmonious Thunder
Monk utility 2: Harmonious Discipline
Monk encounter 3: Eternal Mountain
Monk daily 5: One Hundred Leaves
Monk utility 6: Purifying Meditation
Monk encounter 7: Strike the Avalanche
Monk daily 9: Crane Dance
Monk utility 10: Iron Dragon Defense
Monk encounter 13: Step Between the Worlds (replaces Rising Storm)
Monk daily 15: Way of the Autumn Wind (replaces Harmonious Thunder)
Monk utility 16: Meditative Solace
Monk encounter 17: Steps of Grasping Fire (replaces Strike the Avalanche)
Monk daily 19: Duel in the Heavens (replaces Crane Dance)
Monk utility 22: Wind Walker
Monk encounter 23: Legion of One (replaces Step Between the Worlds)
Monk daily 25: Watchful Hydra Stance (replaces Duel in the Heavens)
Monk encounter 27: Heart-Sundering Strike (replaces Eternal Mountain)
Monk daily 29: Mist on the Storm (replaces Way of the Autumn Wind)

ITEMS
Monk Unarmed Strike, Floating Lantern (heroic tier), Battle Harness Mindpatterned Armor +6, Radiant Accurate dagger +6, Periapt of Cascading Health +6, Eladrin Boots (paragon tier), Bracelet of the Radiant Storm (paragon tier), Ring of the Radiant Storm (paragon tier), Waistband of the Grappler (paragon tier), Rhythm Blade Dagger +1, Ki Spiked gauntlet +1, Strongheart Dagger +1, Tattoo of Vengeance (epic tier), Solitaire (Violet) (epic tier), Ring of Dimensional Escape (paragon tier), Accurate staff of the Traveler +1, Circlet of Indomitability (epic tier), Stone of Spirit (paragon tier), Dice of Auspicious Fortune (paragon tier), Quickening Waters (epic tier)
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One of the things that i've found that I enjoy while I play is the free action draw staff of the traveler and teleport 6 with eladrin boots and ring of dimensional escape. Please give me your feedback.

(PS: The Radiant Storm set bonus doesn't list as item bonus to damage rolls so I'm assuming it stacks, if there is errata to this please let me know and Ill swap my bracers to the free action stow weapon once a round ones.) Thanks.
I just wanted to get your input on the feats section.  I still need to add in racial feats, but I should be able to do that tomorrow.
I just wanted to get your input on the feats section.  I still need to add in racial feats, but I should be able to do that tomorrow.



Looks good - I kind of like the seperation into the three classes.

I don't think you need to take weapon proficiency:parrying daggar -- just find a mage's weapon (unless you want a different enchantment on the parrying daggar -- but I believe you could even use a ki focus in addition to the mage's weapon).

And I'm not sure how polearm gamble combines with things like spear push and polearm gamble without mark of storms... how do you get an initial push with the MBA? I will say this, polearm gamble is actually an incredible defensive power from my actual gaming experience. I get into problems when additional enemies swarm me -- polearm gamble usually disuades most enemies from charging in -- and if they do, it seriously ramps up the damage output. It also synnergizes very well with both crane's wing which allows you to get distance after an attack, and Centered Breath, which allows you to position enemies so you can shift away to get distance on everyone.

Basic Nova Tactic of this Build:


-Step 1 (Move Action): I shift 2 Squares (Five Storm movement technique) in the center of 7 opponents. Alternatively, I can allow myself to be surrounded by targets and wait for them to come at me (use Full Defense in the meantime, Personal Buffs like Centered Defense and/or use Magic Items). Ultimately, I'm surrounded by 7 adjacent targets, left with 1 unoccupied adjacent square and have an extra target 2 squares away who is also adjacent to the unoccupied square next to me.

-Step2 (Standard Action): I use Watchful Hydra Stance, Monk Daily Power, on all 8 targets. Damage here is calculated considering I hit all targets normally (which is most likely scenario since I don't have an improved crit range with Monk Implement Powers).

Average Damage per target: 18(Power)+15(Bonuses)+9(FoB)= 42 damage
Total Average (all 8 targets together): 42*8= 336 damage

Max Damage per target (no Crit): 36(Power)+15(Bonuses)+9(FoB)= 60 damage
Total Max Damage (no Crit, all 8 targets together): 480 damage

-Step 3 (Free Action): I slide each adjacent target (8 targets total) 1 square to a square adjacent to me and gain CA against them until the end of my next turn (so 2 rounds total).

*Here is an illustration of how I would slide the targets:

 Starting with target #5, I slide all targets Clockwise and then move target 8 into the empty square.

Step1:  1 2 3              Step2:  4 1 2
              4 X 5                           6 X 3
              6 7 E                           7 8 5
                 8                                         

X: Me
E: Empty Space
1-8: targets 1 to 8



i have not read all the posts since this was posted so apologies if someone has already mocked this...
but there is no way this would EVER happen at any gaming table i have ever played at in 15 years of gaming.

if a pc runs to a group of monsters uses total defence the monsters would not surround them unless their wisdom is what....8 or lower as it so obviously a trap!
maybe with a fighter/monk using come and get it this would work.
secondly you're giving at least 7 enemies attacks on you first, most with CA..better hope they are not brutes or CA bonus damage enemies
prancing in front of them doing total defence is giving them a free go, why would they attack the one pc not attacking them first?

however if you've got a group tailoring all their powers to slides/pushes and pulls then maybe this hugely theoretical plan could work.

however all those other pcs could focus on their own damage instead whereupon the group will do more damage rather than the above, which i note  uses two daily powers out of the 3 available at the time.

finally an encounter with 8 enemies of which none are minions??? plus others presumably engaging the rest of the party or in some other way not being involved in this "vacuum" encounter where everything happens to work exactly the way you  want it to


 It's not perfect, but the monk is pretty likely go first (high dex and other initive bonuses), while enemies may still be clumped up to at least get the most number of targets hit.  Also, because the monk moves by shifting, no OA's are granted to the enemies, since shifting doesn't provoke an OA.

If the party in general is optimzed enough, having 8 non minions might be pretty common actually, just in order to give the party something to actually worry about :P  Even if it's not, monks are good minion killers anyway because their mutliple target abilites. It does eat up a daily, but the Close Burst on WAtchful Hydra Stance is actually 3, so they can hit quite a few more targets potenially, but only 8 will take the FoB damage.



The higher  you go the higher the monster initiave go.  I think most people agree that it is out of portion comapred to the PCs.  You will have to invest in some feats to go first
I may be wrong, but I'm fairly certain that the Dragonmark feats don't have racial requirements. The Character Builder didn't complain when my Githzerai took Mark of Storms. You have (Human) and (Half-elf) listed under the two dragonmark feats rather than the Eberron abbreviation.

I don't think you need to take weapon proficiency:parrying daggar -- just find a mage's weapon (unless you want a different enchantment on the parrying daggar -- but I believe you could even use a ki focus in addition to the mage's weapon).




rhythm blade > mage's weapon

 
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