Venom Hand Master vs. Resist All

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Hi, I had a question regarding Venom Hand Master (feat) - Your attacks ignore poison resistance and poison immunity.


I was wondering if Resist All counts as it's own resistance, or if it's just shorthand for saying (Resist Poison, Fire, Ice, Psychic, etc.)  The reason I ask would probably be best explained in the given situation:

I have an Assassin with Venom Hand Master and a Spider-kissed Spiked Chain +4.  He strikes a creature with the Spiked Chain (with the poison-damage effect active) that has Resist All 5.  Due to the way Venom Hand Master works, would the creature still Resist 5 off the damage, or does Venom Hand Master take precedent?

Edit: Copied the exact text from the VHM feat. 
Resist All is different from Resist Poison.  The creature would take reduced damage.
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I agree, otherwise you would get something like "Your attacks with the Poison Keyword ignores all resistances and immunities." I think there's stuff like that floating around.
Resist All is different from Resist Poison.  The creature would take reduced damage.


Ok, and what book does this rule appear in exactly?

Resist All is different from Resist Poison.  The creature would take reduced damage.



Ok, and what book does this rule appear in exactly?




Venom Hand Master says you ignore Resist Poison and Immune To Poison.

"Resist All" is not "Resist Poison", because "All" is not "Poison".
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
On another hand, not because you can Resist 5 for All damage type that one of them included in the All would be resisted if you have a way to bypass such resistance.

Vulnerable 5 ALL would mean that dealing 5 Poison would not deal an extra 5 damage because a 5 Vulnerable 5 ALL is not a Vulnerable 5 Poison because ALL is not Poison. Non-sense here.

ALL is not a type of damage and only Resist if meaning every single damage type is referred by it inclusively. Poison included.

So Is Resist All a Resistance to Poison ? Yes, among other things.  If you have for exemple a Resist 5 All and Resist 10 Poison, would you Resist 10 or 15 Poison damage ? I'd say 10 by only taking the highest value.

You need to Resist all the damage type to fully Resist a damage source, but that doesn't mean you need all type of damage type in order to ignore a Resist All. Does it Resist any Poison damage with Resist All ? Yes. Then it doesn't with VHM.

He'd ignore the creature's Resistance portion from Poison included in his Resist 5 All.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Vulnerable 5 ALL would mean that dealing 5 Poison would not deal an extra 5 damage because a 5 Vulnerable 5 ALL is not a Vulnerable 5 Poison because ALL is not Poison. Non-sense here.


You are correct.  That is nonsense.  Vulnerable 5 to all damage would trigger from any kind of damage.

However, VHM ignores poison resistance.  Resist All is not Posion Resistance, it is Resist All. 

You are basically saying that because it ignores Poison Resist, it should ignore any Resist that reduces Poison damage.  However, that is not the case.  Poison Resistance is a specific, named thing.  VHM only ignores that specific, named thing (well, and the other specific thing named Poison Immunity).

An exclusive club named "Poison" won't let men in unless they're wealthy.  Bob is not wealthy.  He cannot get into Poison.  However, one day, Bob meets the owner of Poison.  They become friends.  Bob can now ignore Poison's rule about being wealthy, because he knows the owner.

Another exclusive club named "All" won't let men in, period.  Bob is a man.  He cannot get into All.  Bob still knows the owner of Poison, but it doesn't make a difference here, because All is not Poison.

I love convoluted parallels.
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Resist all is not the same as poison resistance. Your feat does nothing to resist all.
"Resist All" is not "Resist Poison", because "All" is not "Poison".


Ok, and what book does this rule appear in exactly?

So you guys say Resist 5 All is not a Poison Resistance, among other things ? Then how does it manage to reduce damage from that type ? By Resisting it effectively.

Resist 5 All = Resist 5 Fire, Resist 5 Cold, Resist 5 Acid , Resist 5 Poison, etc...That's where the All come from. It's not an absolute value, it's an inclusive one, including every existing damage type. It was there to save space i'd imagine.

So Resist 5 All and Resist 10 Poison would Resist 15 vs Poison ? I don't know i don't think so.

Resist All is a Poison Resistance. If it Resist it, it's a Resistance against it, among other things, you guys seem to pick on the wording and not thinking outside the box.

Why Resist All reduce Poison damage exactly ?

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

"Resist All" is not "Resist Poison", because "All" is not "Poison".



Ok, and what book does this rule appear in exactly?




Player's Handbook 1, where it talks about the exception-based rules system.

Rules do EXACTLY WHAT THEY SAY THEY DO, nothing more, nothing less.  Something that lets you ignore Resist Poison lets you ignore Resist Poison and Resist Poison *alone*.  "Resist All" is not "Resist Poison", so ignoring "Resist Poison" does not affect it, at all.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
So you guys say Resist 5 All is not a Poison Resistance, among other things ? Then how does it manage to reduce damage from that type ? By Resisting it effectively.



It is Resist All.  It is not Resist Poison.

Resist 5 All = Resist 5 Fire, Resist 5 Cold, Resist 5 Acid , Resist 5 Poison, etc...That's where the All come from. It's not an absolute value, it's an inclusive one, including every existing damage type. It was there to save space i'd imagine.



Completely wrong.  "Resist All" resists *all* damage, even untyped damage.  It manifestly is *not* the same as having every other Resistance.

So Resist 5 All and Resist 10 Poison would Resist 15 vs Poison ? I don't know i don't think so.



No, because resistances don't stack.

Resist All is a Poison Resistance. If it Resist it, it's a Resistance against it, among other things, you guys seem to pick on the wording and not thinking outside the box.



There is no "box" to think out of.

"You can have any blue car you want!"
"What about that black car?"
"Is the black car blue?"
"No, it's black."
"So no, you can 't have it, it's not blue."

If a Feat said you increased the distance you Push with a power, would you argue that it should also increase your Slides, because a Slide *can* be used to move someone away?

Why Resist All reduce Poison damage exactly ?



Resist All reduces poison damage because it reduces ALL damage.  It is NOT "Resist Poison" for the purpose of things that affect Resist Poison, because those things affect "Resist Poison", and "All" is not the same as "Poison".
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
So Resist 5 All and Resist 10 Poison would Resist 15 vs Poison ? I don't know i don't think so.







No, because resistances don't stack.






Correct, and why they don't stack ? Beacuse they would Resist the same damage type more than once. You can't stack the same Resists. Resist all is a Resistance to Poison and everything else inclusively. It's not a Resist Poison alone, but it's a Resistance to Poison.

What's the exact wording of HMV i am away from my books ? I don't remember if the call for Resist X or simply say you ignore Resistance to Poison.

Also do we have a definition for Resist All somewhere ? It doesn't say Resist everything, but Resist All like All damage type, and not All damage for the quantity, becuase the value is the number preceeding the resisted source. All of them....I always saw it as a All source. If they'd ever creature a Heat damage type, Resist 5 All would reduce them for exemple. And if you have Resist 5 All and take 5 Poison and Acid damage, you'll Resist them entirely.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Hi, I had a question regarding Venom Hand Master (feat) - Your attacks ignore poison resistance and poison immunity.


I was wondering if Resist All counts as it's own resistance, or if it's just shorthand for saying (Resist Poison, Fire, Ice, Psychic, etc.)  The reason I ask would probably be best explained in the given situation:

I have an Assassin with Venom Hand Master and a Spider-kissed Spiked Chain +4.  He strikes a creature with the Spiked Chain (with the poison-damage effect active) that has Resist All 5.  Due to the way Venom Hand Master works, would the creature still Resist 5 off the damage, or does Venom Hand Master take precedent?

Edit: Copied the exact text from the VHM feat. 

I would allow it. In this game I think it's more fun for the player to be able to do their cool thing than for the monster to resist another 5 points of damage.

Is it even possible to bypass resist all?

Unless something says " ignore any resistances or immunities", I can't see a way that it would. But you are unlikely to find this on anything other than a specific power.

It's just suprising that it can be stronger than immunity to a type of damage as far as anti-resistance powers/feats are concerned.


Is it even possible to bypass resist all?

Unless something says " ignore any resistances or immunities", I can't see a way that it would. But you are unlikely to find this on anything other than a specific power.

It's just suprising that it can be stronger than immunity to a type of damage as far as anti-resistance powers/feats are concerned.




There are a number of "reduce/bypass/ignore any resistances to this damage" effects out there, as well as a number of "this damage cannot be reduced or prevented in any way" powers.

But Resist All most often is not coming because you're resistant to a damage type - it's a more fundamental expression of sheer toughness.

(Venom Hand Master doesn't let you ignore Insubstantial, either, despite *it* also reducing the damage of the power.  And why?  Because VHM lets you ignore "Resist Poison" and "Immune: Poison", it does not let you ignore "anything that reduces the poison damage I am doing")
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
Wow. I think some of you are way over thinking this. "All" is is not a damage type. Resist All and Vunerable All are simply shorthand instead of listing a resist to every damage type. VHM, Hellbringer, Prince of Hell, et al ignore resists for attacks that deal their respective damage type. Even if you do Fire/Poison damage, and only have VHM, the resists would get ignored with those feats/abilities. Anything other interpretation IMO is just silly. Can someone find a 4e definition of the All keyword as it applies to resistances? That would certainly clear up this confusion.

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Sure Insubstantial won't be affected, Insubstantial is not a Resistance even though it's listed under Resist in the Monster template. It's an different ability entirely, letting you reduce damage by half.

I don't think Resist All is defined anywhere. But when i see it, i see:

Factor  Value  Type
Vulnerable 5 Poison
Resist 5 Acid
Resist 5 All,

What always come after the resisted value is the type of damage affected by sais value, preceeded by the Factor, if it Resist or Vul.  I don't see it as a sign of thoughness, but i recognize that it's strenght lies in the fact that it can Resist all type of damage and including, untyped, which is the only way to Resist Untyped damage IIRC. There's no Resist 5 Untyped anywhere i think. Plus it save spaces considerably.

Now, does that really sound over thought ? Looks the simplest theory outhere to me. And the most logical.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

it's strenght lies in the fact that it can Resist all type of damage and including, untyped, which is the only way to Resist Untyped damage IIRC. There's no Resist 5 Untyped anywhere i think.



The Stone Band ring gives you Resist 5/10 "Critical Hits".

I'm not aware of any monster in the game currently having "Resist Untyped", but there's no reason you couldn't do it.

The point is, "Resist All" is not "Poison Resistance", and venom hand master only gets rid of ONE KIND OF RESISTANCE.

That "resist all" can resist poison damage is not relevant.  What matters is that VHM eliminates *people who are strong specifically against poison*, it doesn't help with people who are strong against EVERYTHING.

Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
Resist All:  If you would take damage, you take less damage.


Resist Poison:  If you would take poison damage, you take less damage.


Resist All is not every individual resistance stacked together.  It is a more general statement. 

MM2, Resistance:

A creature that has resistance takes less damage from a specific damage type.


(emphasis mine)

"All" is a specific damage type, encompassing any damage.  "Poison" is a specific damage type, meaning poison damage.  "All" does not include "poison".
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That's not how i had understood it But then yeah it appears only those specifically Resistant to Poison will see it bypassed by HMV. I subscribe. Wink 

.
Resist Critical ? I didn't know that one very unusual LOL

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Resist All:  If you would take damage, you take less damage.


Resist Poison:  If you would take poison damage, you take less damage.


Resist All is not every individual resistance stacked together.  It is a more general statement. 

MM2, Resistance:

A creature that has resistance takes less damage from a specific damage type.



(emphasis mine)

"All" is a specific damage type, encompassing any damage.  "Poison" is a specific damage type, meaning poison damage.  "All" does not include "poison".



I'm not a rules lawyer and perhaps that's why I'm missing something, because I just don't get this.

How is "All" a specific damage type?  Are there any powers that deal "All" damage?  I'm inclined to believe that the intent, as was noted earlier in the thread, that "All" is not meant to refer to a specific damage type but as an inclusive adjective--meaning that this resistance is versus any specific damage type.  Consequently, since VHM ignores resist and immunity to poison damage, Resist All would be ineffectual against it.

As I said above, I'm no rules lawyer.  I'm often wrong about rules.  But I'm just not getting how any other interpretation could be correct.  The quote from the MM2, in my opinion, is not meant to suggest that Resist All means that "All" is, therefore, a specific damage type.  Yes, taken at face value, that would be the literal interpretation.  But is that really what we think they meant?

Please don't rip me to shreds if I'm speaking from ignorance. 
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Yea...

None of my attacks to the All damage type...

None are reduced by Resist All!


Now that we have gotten that out of our systems...

This is an issue that will not be answered by bickering on the forums... there are two legitimate readings, and both are equally likely intents.


This is one of the cases where it will take a higher up to answer the question.
My two cents:

Some abilities are phrased as "ignore Resistance to X" and some are phrased "ignore Resist X".  I don't think anyone would complain about the former applying to Resist All yet the other is considered the be affected by it.  That said, I really doubt that powers and effects were statted with the difference in phrasing in mind; the designers likely did not consider the additional factor of ignoring Resist All when balancing things despite one phrasing allowing it and the other not.  The difference in phrasing is likely due to different writers saying what is, basically, the same thing but in slightly different words.

So in my own games, since I don't want one player to suffer from a slightly changed phrasing over another whose writer happened to phrase it so it can be used, I would allow both under my own "if I give it to you I have to give it to everybody else," rule.  You're good enough with Poison, or Fire, or whatever that you know how to bypass some creature being tough against it.  Doesn't matter to me whether that toughness is "across the board" or specific, PCs are that awesome.

That said I would *not* allow it to bypass the Resist All entirely for the attack.  You bypass Resist Poison, so you deal full poison damage, but if your attack is multi-type then it can still be reduced as you don't bypass the other resistance.  So if a power dealt 10 weapon damage and 15 Poison against a target with Resist 5 All you're still dealing 20, it's just all being taken from the weapon damage.  By the same token, if you hit something with Resist 15 All you'd deal 15 Poison total, rather than 10 with some from each.
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I'm just devil's advocating here:

I think Blastarr makes a good point about what these feats actually say. Poisoner MC feat "reduces 5 points of poison resistance" and VHM "ignore poison resistance". If one wanted to be all rules lawyer-y you would bring up about how these feats don't specifically talk about Resist Poison or Poison Resist. The argument goes thusly: If I'm doing poison damage and Resist All resists my damage, it's resisting my poison, and I can reduce/ignore it. I don't care HOW the poison is being resisted (that is, specifically resisting it or generally resisting all damage), I just know that the damage is being resisted and that I can bypass resistance (regardless of the source).

It's a reasonable argument. The other side is reasonable as well, "Resist All" is NOT "Resist Poison".

In the end it's not that big of a deal, we're talking about a few points of resistance here or there. Bypassing or reducing resistance isn't as powerful as adding vulnerability, mostly because it only affects one character. Whereas vulnerability gives everyone in the party the benefit.
Anki brought up the definition of resistance earlier, and it seems contradictory in and of itself when used in conjunction with "All" as a damage type because "All" is not a damage type but instead a term referring to all damage.

Under damage type in the PHB it lists Acid, Force, Lightning, Necrotic, Poison, Psychic, Radiant, and Thunder as damage types. I don't see All listed there. This makes me think that they used the word all to mean all the damage types since by definition resistances must be applied to a damage type.

Going by this line of reasoning, the anti poison resist feats should work on a resist all target.

The resistance definition needs a little work, or damage types need an extra type added called "All." Perhaps defined as " Any and all damage sources ".



I wonder if All would be better replaced with Any.
I'd personally have to go with no it wouldn't ignore resist all. If for no other reason that the books say specific beats general, and the feat says " ignores poison resistance." Which is a specific kind of resistance, it is a trait, one that creatures have, resist poison. Just for the sake of argument would you say it overcomes immunity to all damage? Something that can't be hurt could still somehow be hurt by this guy's poison? Because of a feat he took at 1st level?

I think we should all agree on that last part being a little crazy, if something CAN"T be hurt, by anything then why should an adept poisoner be able to change that? Now just scale that same thought back from immunity to resistance and the same idea applies.

The argument that as far as we know there is no resist untyped should be enough to say that resist all isn't a shorthand note, it is its own trait, and since the feat doesn't read "ignore any resistance to poison damage that you deal" then I think resist all should in fact resist it.
The sad part of this is the amount of people saying "I'm not a rules lawyer" then pulling very flimsy rules lawyerie calls on RAI with no actual rules or indication they are actualy looking at a rule book. And are just plucking weird and wrong conclusions out of thin air.

Now as we've had all the quotes from the rule books and your still not understanding whats being explained to you we'll look at this from your own point of view.

As we know combined damage types are more powerfull that single damage types. If you deal Fire and Cold and the target can only resist one of them he takes the lot. So Resist All in your mind is Resist all the types there is including man/weapon damage and anything else they wish to add in the future. So you deal Poison damage Resist All says no, you say but I can ignore your Resist All, I say well as you can't ignore all parts of my resistance the resistance stays in effect because you can't stop the power named Resist All. Your only stopping the monster from useing a fraction of it.

Now this isn't how it works because Resist All is nowhere described as resistance to all the elemental damage types combined plus weapon damage and anything everything not written into the game yet. It's a resistance that doesn't stop any type of damage it stops every type of damage. Think of it not as restance or imunity but a new ability called Unscratchable [X] which just looks at the number you are doing in damage and doesn't care about anything else and takes that much damage away.

And once again LOL at not rules lawyers...

Diabalos
man i love this debate .....

I have to be in the camp of resist all is equated to resist of each type of damage. to my knowledge if they want all damage to be reduced across the board they would use something like the swarm druids ability to do so.

I also dont believe in the arguement that is close to have your cake and eat it to. if resist all is a type of its own and not bypassable by something that ignores poison resist then it must only work against an attack that does damage of the all type. and i have yet to see an all type.

this will be a fun one to get a rewording on ...

then again .. soo many things that need rewording get ignored ... so .... good luck
I have to agree with the point that states ALL is the same as writing down every source of damage available, so Resist Poison is included in Resist all.

In the PHB there is an item called Gloves of Piercing:
"Until the end of the encounter, your attacks ignore any resistance of 10 or lower"
Is ANY resistance the same as ALL resistance? Isn't this RAW?

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I have to agree with the point that states ALL is the same as writing down every source of damage available, so Resist Poison is included in Resist all.


If that were true, then effects which increase your resistance to specific damage would stack with just part of your Resist All.  That'd be a little awkward, wouldn't it?

Imagine if you had a power or something that says, "Increase your Fire Resist by 5" and you have Resist All 5 already.  Would that mean you'd gain something like, "Resist All (except Fire) 5, Resist Fire 10?"  Or "Resist All 5 (Except Fire which is 10)?"

Resist All means that all damage is resisted regardless of type.  It does not mean that you have Resist against every individual type of damage it means that all damage dealt to you is reduced.

In the PHB there is an item called Gloves of Piercing:
"Until the end of the encounter, your attacks ignore any resistance of 10 or lower"
Is ANY resistance the same as ALL resistance? Isn't this RAW?


Resist All is a resistance, so the Gloves, which reduce any kind of resistance would reduce Resist All.

The problem here really seems to be people thinking of Resist All as some kind of shortcut to writing a comprehensive list of damage resistances for each individual type, rather than something else entirely.  For the record, it is something else entirely.
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I have to agree with the point that states ALL is the same as writing down every source of damage available, so Resist Poison is included in Resist all.


If that were true, then effects which increase your resistance to specific damage would stack with part of your Resist All.  That'd be a little awkward, wouldn't it?



Isn't this true? If you have Resist 5 All and acquire Resist 10 Fire, you have Resist 10 Fire and Resist 5 All (everything but fire which is 10), no? Just as if you had Resist 5 Cold and Fire and acquired Resist 10 Fire.



"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
Really, the correct answer is that the rules don't say.  "Resist All" is not defined well enough to say.

Personally, I would probably let VHM work.
I have to agree with the point that states ALL is the same as writing down every source of damage available, so Resist Poison is included in Resist all.



If that were true, then effects which increase your resistance to specific damage would stack with part of your Resist All.  That'd be a little awkward, wouldn't it?




Isn't this true? If you have Resist 5 All and acquire Resist 10 Fire, you have Resist 10 Fire and Resist 5 All (everything but fire which is 10), no? Just as if you had Resist 5 Cold and Fire and acquired Resist 10 Fire.



But that's not what he's talking about.  He's talking about having Resist 5 All and then getting a "Increase any Resist Fire you have by 5", which does NOT result in Resisting 10 Fire.  Why?  Because you dont' have any Resist Fire.  You have Resist All, and things that affect Resist Fire do not affect Resist All because "All" is not the same as "Fire".

Similary, Gloves Of Piercing allow you to ignore any Resistance.  "Resist All" is a resistance, so Gloves Of Piercing can ignore it.  "Resist Poison" is a Resistance, so Gloves Of Piercing can ignore it.   "Immune Fire" is not a Resistance, so Gloves Of Piercing cannot ignore it.  "Resist Cold" or "Resist Necrotic" or "Resist All" are not "Resist Poison", so things that only affect "Resist Poison" do not affect them.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
But that's not what he's talking about.  He's talking about having Resist 5 All and then getting a "Increase any Resist Fire you have by 5", which does NOT result in Resisting 10 Fire.  Why?  Because you dont' have any Resist Fire.  You have Resist All, and things that affect Resist Fire do not affect Resist All because "All" is not the same as "Fire".

Similary, Gloves Of Piercing allow you to ignore any Resistance.  "Resist All" is a resistance, so Gloves Of Piercing can ignore it.  "Resist Poison" is a Resistance, so Gloves Of Piercing can ignore it.   "Immune Fire" is not a Resistance, so Gloves Of Piercing cannot ignore it.  "Resist Cold" or "Resist Necrotic" or "Resist All" are not "Resist Poison", so things that only affect "Resist Poison" do not affect them.



"But LoW," he asked, "does 'resistance to X' in a description equate to 'Resist X' as an attribute?"

I lean towards yes.  Resist All is, certainly, "resistance to X" by definition; for any value of X, Resist All is resisting it.  I know I'm just restating my earlier post here, but if one thing is phrased "resistance to X" and another "Resist X" do you honestly think that the game designers thought about whether Resist All was being penetrated or not?  I doubt it, people just write differently.  So as a kind of aside I would argue that you treat both statements the same when adjudicating the rules, whichever way you choose to go, as that slight rephrase could cause confusion or disputes between players and/or DMs.

And bringing up Resist Necrotic or Resist Cold being affected by something which works on Resist Poison is kinda a straw man, no one would argue that...  Instead it's the idea that either All is a type unto itself, thus Resist Poison is not the same, or All is a simple catch-all shorthand used rather than writing every damage type out.  It's muddy as muddy can be, and could easily be interpreted either way.
"Besides, pushing someone over a pit is still entirely 2D... it just becomes 3D rather quickly afterwards." ~ yesnomu "Mind you, that doesn't change the fact that the poor str-priest is cowering in the corner wondering what horrible thing it was that he did that makes daddy keep hitting him so much, but it's not like the nerf was senseless." ~ SanityFaerie
I have to agree with the point that states ALL is the same as writing down every source of damage available, so Resist Poison is included in Resist all.




If that were true, then effects which increase your resistance to specific damage would stack with part of your Resist All.  That'd be a little awkward, wouldn't it?





Isn't this true? If you have Resist 5 All and acquire Resist 10 Fire, you have Resist 10 Fire and Resist 5 All (everything but fire which is 10), no? Just as if you had Resist 5 Cold and Fire and acquired Resist 10 Fire.




But that's not what he's talking about.  He's talking about having Resist 5 All and then getting a "Increase any Resist Fire you have by 5", which does NOT result in Resisting 10 Fire.  Why?  Because you dont' have any Resist Fire.  You have Resist All, and things that affect Resist Fire do not affect Resist All because "All" is not the same as "Fire".



Well, this is a bit of circular reasoning since its only true if you accept the hypothesis in the first place so it doesn't really support this issue one way or the other.

Since "all" is not a type of damage in and of itself, I think the most obvious interpretation is that resist 5 all is the equivalent to resist 5 cold, fire, psychic, etc.

So I guess I'm in the "all as shorthand" camp.

I think it fits the RAI better too. You have a feat that ignores resistances and immunities. Why should you be able to resist an unresistable effect?

"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387

And bringing up Resist Necrotic or Resist Cold being affected by something which works on Resist Poison is kinda a straw man, no one would argue that...  Instead it's the idea that either All is a type unto itself, thus Resist Poison is not the same, or All is a simple catch-all shorthand used rather than writing every damage type out. 



See, I *do* think people are basically arguing that, here - "All" is no more "Poison" than "Cold" is.

It's like saying that an untyped bonus is a "Power" bonus because it comes from a power.  Well, no, it *does* come from a power, but it's untyped, because it doesn't have a type.  Or saying that a Power bonus to damage is an Enhancement bonus instead because it "enhances" the damage done by the power.  These are all, to me, equally as meaningless as saying "something that affects Resist Fire specifically should also affect Cold or Poison or All".  Those things are not Fire, so things that only affect Fire do not affect them.  This seems simple, clear, unambiguous, and transparently follows the "rules only do exactly what they say they do, nothing more, nothing less" rule that defines how to read D&D rules.
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
You have a feat that ignores resistances and immunities. Why should you be able to resist an unresistable effect?



It's not unresistable.  People who are strong *specifically against Poison* don't get the benefit of their resistance, because you have a Feat that says your powers ignore *specific strength versus Poison*.

"general resistance to all damage" is not "specific resistance to only Poison" - and so, your Feat that says "ignore specific resistance to only Poison" does not affect "general resistance to all damage".
Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
See, I *do* think people are basically arguing that, here - "All" is no more "Poison" than "Cold" is.

It's like saying that an untyped bonus is a "Power" bonus because it comes from a power.  Well, no, it *does* come from a power, but it's untyped, because it doesn't have a type.  Or saying that a Power bonus to damage is an Enhancement bonus instead because it "enhances" the damage done by the power.  These are all, to me, equally as meaningless as saying "something that affects Resist Fire specifically should also affect Cold or Poison or All".  Those things are not Fire, so things that only affect Fire do not affect them.  This seems simple, clear, unambiguous, and transparently follows the "rules only do exactly what they say they do, nothing more, nothing less" rule that defines how to read D&D rules.

But Cold does not include Poison in what is resists, All does, which is the confusion (and why it's a completely different argument, Cold Resist does not and cannot affect Poison Resist by any stretch of the rules).  "Nothing more, nothing less," doesn't really lend itself to either interpretation since the two Resist overlap in effect.  And I still don't agree with the idea that Resist All simply wins out over anything other than compelte untyped resistance penetration, it makes already situational benefits even less useful for both PCs and monsters.
"Besides, pushing someone over a pit is still entirely 2D... it just becomes 3D rather quickly afterwards." ~ yesnomu "Mind you, that doesn't change the fact that the poor str-priest is cowering in the corner wondering what horrible thing it was that he did that makes daddy keep hitting him so much, but it's not like the nerf was senseless." ~ SanityFaerie
See, I *do* think people are basically arguing that, here - "All" is no more "Poison" than "Cold" is.

It's like saying that an untyped bonus is a "Power" bonus because it comes from a power.  Well, no, it *does* come from a power, but it's untyped, because it doesn't have a type.  Or saying that a Power bonus to damage is an Enhancement bonus instead because it "enhances" the damage done by the power.  These are all, to me, equally as meaningless as saying "something that affects Resist Fire specifically should also affect Cold or Poison or All".  Those things are not Fire, so things that only affect Fire do not affect them.  This seems simple, clear, unambiguous, and transparently follows the "rules only do exactly what they say they do, nothing more, nothing less" rule that defines how to read D&D rules.


But Cold does not include Poison in what is resists, All does, which is the confusion (and why it's a completely different argument, Cold Resist does not and cannot affect Poison Resist by any stretch of the rules).  "Nothing more, nothing less," doesn't really lend itself to either interpretation since the two Resist overlap in effect.  And I still don't agree with the idea that Resist All simply wins out over anything other than compelte untyped resistance penetration, it makes already situational benefits even less useful for both PCs and monsters.



But cold damage does and will always affect Poison damage when the 2 types of damage are added together. So when the 2 types of Resistance are added together where is your leg to stand on. If you want to infure rules that aren't there you need a better argument rather than I feet it should work but don't have a rules source to back me up. This is a Rules Q&A not a "Houserules what I would do because I don't understand the rules Q&A"

You can see LoW is stating the rules, yet you continue to argue without giving a rules based reason. "I feel Resist All is short hand" is just that a feeling not following what the rules state or don't state. Nowhere does it say Resist All is all types of resistance because it's not it is it's own damage reduction not stackable with Elemental damage Resist but not the same as either.

Diabalos