Character creator tool costs money?

522 posts / 0 new
Last post
Why do I have to subscribe to a magazine I dont want in order to use the character generator? I would rather buy the tool rather than pay 71 bucks a year for something I dont want.

I never understood this. They kinda try and hold you randsom to purchase things you dont want nor need. I would be happy to pay 10 bucks a year for the generator (what its worth, imo) rather than pay 71 dollars for a magazine sub I do not want.

If I wanted the magazine, I would subscribe, I dont. I would like to use the creation tool however. Why not just sell it for a set price?
Why do I have to subscribe to a magazine I dont want in order to use the character generator? I would rather buy the tool rather than pay 71 bucks a year for something I dont want.

I never understood this. They kinda try and hold you randsom to purchase things you dont want nor need. I would be happy to pay 10 bucks a year for the generator (what its worth, imo) rather than pay 71 dollars for a magazine sub I do not want.

If I wanted the magazine, I would subscribe, I dont. I would like to use the creation tool however. Why not just sell it for a set price?

They are selling it for a set price (well, a sliding scale), and that price is $71 per year.

However, you have an out.  The software is essentially free; your subscription cost is basically for the regular updates (both errata and new rules content).  If you don't want the updates, then purchase a one-month subscription, download the CB, and then cancel your service.
Why do I have to subscribe to a magazine I dont want in order to use the character generator? I would rather buy the tool rather than pay 71 bucks a year for something I dont want.

I never understood this. They kinda try and hold you randsom to purchase things you dont want nor need. I would be happy to pay 10 bucks a year for the generator (what its worth, imo) rather than pay 71 dollars for a magazine sub I do not want.

If I wanted the magazine, I would subscribe, I dont. I would like to use the creation tool however. Why not just sell it for a set price?


They are selling it for a set price (well, a sliding scale), and that price is $71 per year.

However, you have an out.  The software is essentially free; your subscription cost is basically for the regular updates (both errata and new rules content).  If you don't want the updates, then purchase a one-month subscription, download the CB, and then cancel your service.



It's convenient, but not 71 dollars a year convenient.



It's convenient, but not 71 dollars a year convenient.





And yet you completely missed his solution, which is very simple and costs you $10.  Then, every 6 months or so, renew it for $10 for one month to get the updates.  Your bargain basement price is $20 per year.

Celebrate our differences.



It's convenient, but not 71 dollars a year convenient.







And yet you completely missed his solution, which is very simple and costs you $10.  Then, every 6 months or so, renew it for $10 for one month to get the updates.  Your bargain basement price is $20 per year.





What lead you to assume I missed his point? I, in fact, did not miss his point. Paying 10 bucks a month isnt a solution to the problem, not in the least. Ok, I pay ten bucks and install the next update. The subscription runs out and new books are released. I pay another 10 bucks again to get that update and so on and so forth.

The never-ending nature of D&D product releases make that choice worse than paying 71 bucks a year.


It's convenient, but not 71 dollars a year convenient.






And yet you completely missed his solution, which is very simple and costs you $10.  Then, every 6 months or so, renew it for $10 for one month to get the updates.  Your bargain basement price is $20 per year.



Exactly, once a year you can sign up for a month of DDI, download the fully updated tools and just let your subscription lapse. Heck if you DO like Dungeon and Dragon magazine you can download all the PDFs at the same time. The only tool you will miss out on that way is the Compendium. So basically CB (plus MB) costs you $10 and each update costs you $10 when you decide to update.

I'd also point out that I doubt WotC could afford to sell CB and provide periodic updates for a flat cost of $10. That's a pretty low price for a piece of commercial software, especially one that has a fairly restricted user base and requires a considerable amount of ongoing support and updates. I doubt they make money on the people that go the $10 a year (or however often) route. They make money off the $71 a year people (perhaps) and thus can afford to allow the other option as long as not too many people go that route. Most of those people would probably not pay for anything at all anyway if they HAD to pay $71 and getting the CB out there as much as possible does promote the game in general, so its somewhat of a win-win proposition, yet still not one they hope many people will choose.
That is not dead which may eternal lie


It's convenient, but not 71 dollars a year convenient.







And yet you completely missed his solution, which is very simple and costs you $10.  Then, every 6 months or so, renew it for $10 for one month to get the updates.  Your bargain basement price is $20 per year.




Exactly, once a year you can sign up for a month of DDI, download the fully updated tools and just let your subscription lapse.



Once a year? I would hate to even imagine how much content you would be lacking as books are released so frequently. If I were to pay 10 bucks and get the update, I would miss the upcoming Psionic powers supplement. I would need to turn around and pay another 10 bucks a month later. Either that or wait until a large amount of books have been released and while waiting, just do like we've always done and write it by hand.

All I am saying is that while the generator tool is handy, it really isnt worth all that much as you will need to constantly print out new sheets for each player per level.

As the economy is now, I think 71 dollars is really not even close to it's actual value. I just wish people would stop being so underhanded and sell you things you dont want or need to get what you actually want. I won't pay a single dollar just off principle alone. You will not force me to give you money through manipulation.

In fact, trying to force people to buy a product not tied to the actual product will make a lot of people refuse. I can't be the only one that finds such practices, unethical.

If you want the D&D Character Creator, then pay $10 for a single month's subscription.  You own the program forever; the drawback is that you'll miss out on monthly updates (the new releases).

Update a few times a year or ignore the rest if you want.   If you buy a subscription this month you get all the core books (PH, DMG, PH2, DMG2, PH3 and so on) plus a ton of additional Dragon/Dungeon content. You can create D&D PCs using all those rules, as many as you want, for as long as you want.  Not a bad deal in my mind but to each his or her own I s'pose.

You'll have a lot, you just won't have it all (unless you're willing for the full price of $72 a year).  $10 or the full $72?  Either way, no one is holding anyone else hostage.  Buy what you want; if you don't want it, don't buy it.
/\ Art

He has made it obvious that he is not here for a solution.  He is simply throwing his fishing boat into the lowest speed and casting his line.

There is a D&DI section you can try to fish in or contact WotC directly.  You'll get no bites here.

Celebrate our differences.

Then don't buy it.

Nobody is trying to force you to buy anything. 

They are selling a product, and it is up to you to decide if you think it is worth it for yourself.  If you don't think it is worth it for you, that doesn't mean it isn't worth it for others.

Just because something isn't convient for you, doesn't mean it is unethical.
Certainly some people enjoy 'fishing' ;), I'm just amazed that there's concern that the CB costs money.  Of course it costs money.  

Everything costs money.  A 20 oz. bottle of water for breakfast costs me $1.29 plus tax; one sip and it's finished.  

For $10 a month (less for a yearly commitment), I get something permanent, something that will undoubtedly add to my gaming hobby.  Or, I could buy a bottle of water for a couple of weeks ; know what I'm saying?
/\ Art
Certainly some people enjoy 'fishing' ;), I'm just amazed that there's concern that the CB costs money.  Of course it costs money.  

Everything costs money.  A 20 oz. bottle of water for breakfast costs me $1.29 plus tax; one sip and it's finished.  

For $10 a month (less for a yearly commitment), I get something permanent, something that will undoubtedly add to my gaming hobby.  Or, I could buy a bottle of water for a couple of weeks ; know what I'm saying?



No kidding.  D&D is a very cheap hobby for what you get.
Certainly some people enjoy 'fishing' ;), I'm just amazed that there's concern that the CB costs money.  Of course it costs money.  

Everything costs money.  A 20 oz. bottle of water for breakfast costs me $1.29 plus tax; one sip and it's finished.  

For $10 a month (less for a yearly commitment), I get something permanent, something that will undoubtedly add to my gaming hobby.  Or, I could buy a bottle of water for a couple of weeks ; know what I'm saying?


 

And I am willing to pay an acceptable price for it. I'm not stating that I want the character generator to be free to use. I am just saying that it should be sold as a stand alone product instead of forcing some magazine sub down my throat that I do not want nor need. I find that unethical, that is my opinion.
Don't consider it as a magazine sub.  Maybe think of it as downloading a program.  The CB really is a fun program; it works well IMHO and adds to my enjoyment of the hobby. 

I'd certainly recommend that it's worth a look for a month.  A friendly suggestion ;); I respect your opinion. 
/\ Art
So you're saying that you want to use WotC's program at a price of your choosing, and without paying for regularly updated content. I'm not sure what kind of business model you think WotC uses, but that ain't it.


And I am willing to pay an acceptable price for it. I'm not stating that I want the character generator to be free to use. I am just saying that it should be sold as a stand alone product instead of forcing some magazine sub down my throat that I do not want nor need. I find that unethical, that is my opinion.


The company has a product, offers that product at a stated price, and if you pay the asked price, you get the product. How is that unethical?

Standard Answer to all 5E rules questions: "Ask your DM."

It's a magazine subscription, ongoing support for two pieces of software, and full access to a searchable online database. 

If you're not interested in Dragon content then your updates per year would only follow after content you actually care about, and since the update is all-inclusive and not modular all the content you don't care about or are only moderately interested in would come along with your next must-have update anyway.

Here's the thing that confuses me: if you don't consider the magazine and monthly updates to be worth 70$ a year then why the retentive need to be 100% up to date? If you're not going to use it then you're not really going to miss it when your CB is 6 months out of date, and you'll eventually get it anyway the next time you do consider it to be worth 10$ to update?

In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
who, squatting upon the ground,
held his heart in his hands, and ate of it.
I said, "is it good, friend?"
"It is bitter – bitter," he answered;
"but I like it,
"beacuase it is bitter,
"and because it is my heart."

And I am willing to pay an acceptable price for it. I'm not stating that I want the character generator to be free to use. I am just saying that it should be sold as a stand alone product instead of forcing some magazine sub down my throat that I do not want nor need. I find that unethical, that is my opinion.

The company has a product, offers that product at a stated price, and if you pay the asked price, you get the product. How is that unethical?

Are bundled products unethical sales tactics? I dunno. The price as is is for an awful lot of content. I pay yearly subscriptions and fees for things that both cost more and do less, so I guess it's just that in my world this is a great value.

In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
who, squatting upon the ground,
held his heart in his hands, and ate of it.
I said, "is it good, friend?"
"It is bitter – bitter," he answered;
"but I like it,
"beacuase it is bitter,
"and because it is my heart."


The company has a product, offers that product at a stated price, and if you pay the asked price, you get the product. How is that unethical?



Obviously inconvience is the new unethical.
Is it jus me or have this rant been done to death more then a year ago, This is not the first time we have seen someone complain about being forced to subscribe to the mags to get access to the builder, and it will not be the last. Though I keep finding these things funny because the Magazines came first, and the builder was added to the subscription as an extra feature after the subscriptions started.

In fact, trying to force people to buy a product not tied to the actual product will make a lot of people refuse. I can't be the only one that finds such practices, unethical.

But they are related, they are both digital D&D products, and one (the CB and MB) contains almost all the game rules of the other (the Mags), and it is not that small a portion of the content in the builders either. For an example, there are presently 1510 feats listed in the compendium as being from rule books. and an additional 868 feats from the Magazines with a total of 2378 feats. that is more then 1/3rd  from the magazines. for powers, there are 6298 in the compendium filter to just dragon and you get 1072 powers. the mags are a decent portion of the builder content.

The company has a product, offers that product at a stated price, and if you pay the asked price, you get the product. How is that unethical?

Because it is more then he wants to pay for what he will use. Like 90% of price complaints, it boils down to it is more then I want to pay for the service.

Really every time I seen a thread like this, my first though is that the only way to end them would be for wizards to do a full overhaul of the updater, so that it can keep track of exactly what someone has access to, so they could then set it up so that people could purchase the content of individual books for the builder


I've a few more thoughts on the cost of the CB (let's ignore the bundled ezine subscription for now).  The CB might not be worth $72 (for a year) but there's no doubt in my mind that's it worth every penny of $10.

As others have mentioned, for $10 (a single month), I get all the rules from the D&D books . . . all of 'em up to this point.  That includes the core books (PH, DMG, PH2, DMG2, PH3) and all the supplemental books (Martial Power 1 & 2, Arcane Power, Divine Power, Primal Power) all the ezine content, all the adventure content  . . . every single crunchy bit of D&D for only $10.  Sign me up ;).  Keeping up the newest releases will cost me a bit more of course.

There's also the awesome (IMHO) Character Builder and the online Rules Compendium.  I can easily create as many D&D PCs as I want, for all long as I want; character sheet and all.  The CB is mine to keep and all the rules that come with it.

I'm also a longtime, die-hard fan of Dragon/Dungeon.  I enjoy the 'fluff' articles best.  So, a D&D Insider subscription is a no-brainer for me.  Just offering my thoughts one last time ;).
/\ Art
Once a year? I would hate to even imagine how much content you would be lacking as books are released so frequently. If I were to pay 10 bucks and get the update, I would miss the upcoming Psionic powers supplement. I would need to turn around and pay another 10 bucks a month later. Either that or wait until a large amount of books have been released and while waiting, just do like we've always done and write it by hand.

All I am saying is that while the generator tool is handy, it really isnt worth all that much as you will need to constantly print out new sheets for each player per level.

As the economy is now, I think 71 dollars is really not even close to it's actual value. I just wish people would stop being so underhanded and sell you things you dont want or need to get what you actually want. I won't pay a single dollar just off principle alone. You will not force me to give you money through manipulation.

In fact, trying to force people to buy a product not tied to the actual product will make a lot of people refuse. I can't be the only one that finds such practices, unethical.


So just so we're clear here, your position is that you want to buy a cheap piece of software and then get all of the updated content from new books free, forever.  That about right?

Not only that, but even though you could essentially get ALL the content for $20 or even $10 bucks a year, you are too impatient and want everything immediately.  For no extra charge.

And you feel that this is a right and that Wizards of the Coast are the ones engaged in unethical behavior.

Anything I missed?

DDI is not a magazine subscription.  DDI is a subscription to a continually updated database, a suite of tools, and software updates for those tools.  Oh, and there's a couple of webzines thrown in there just as icing on the cake.

Your position is extremely disingenuous.  The beauty of the subscription system is that it essentially allows the customer to decide their price point.  You can buy in for as little as $10, if you just want the character builder and whatever classes are currently released.  If you are interested in keeping somewhat updated, you can renew your subscription every few months for another $10 a pop.  If you absolutely must have all the latest updates as soon as they are available, you can pay $71 for the year, which is about the cost of a couple of books - by no means unreasonable.

You decide what the content is worth to you.  No sense complaining to us.

I'm pretty sure Dungeoneering nailed it best:  $72 is 2, maybe 3, books each year for all of the content.  A win for me, I quit buying hard books with PHB, DMG, MM, PH2 and use CB, MB, and the compendium for all the other info.  A quick glance shows that my 2 years of subscription ($130) has saved me a considerable chunk of money.


It's convenient, but not 71 dollars a year convenient.








And yet you completely missed his solution, which is very simple and costs you $10.  Then, every 6 months or so, renew it for $10 for one month to get the updates.  Your bargain basement price is $20 per year.





Exactly, once a year you can sign up for a month of DDI, download the fully updated tools and just let your subscription lapse.




Once a year? I would hate to even imagine how much content you would be lacking as books are released so frequently. If I were to pay 10 bucks and get the update, I would miss the upcoming Psionic powers supplement. I would need to turn around and pay another 10 bucks a month later. Either that or wait until a large amount of books have been released and while waiting, just do like we've always done and write it by hand.

All I am saying is that while the generator tool is handy, it really isnt worth all that much as you will need to constantly print out new sheets for each player per level.

As the economy is now, I think 71 dollars is really not even close to it's actual value. I just wish people would stop being so underhanded and sell you things you dont want or need to get what you actually want. I won't pay a single dollar just off principle alone. You will not force me to give you money through manipulation.

In fact, trying to force people to buy a product not tied to the actual product will make a lot of people refuse. I can't be the only one that finds such practices, unethical.




Yeah, I think 'unethical' probably isn't the best word to use. There are a few ways to look at it, but essentially they all amount to the product is a collection of things that the producer considers most of its customer base will want. You could actually think of it as a "bargain bundle". I can totally understand someone wanting just specific parts that suite their need and to get just those parts at a bit lower price, which is probably not a ridiculous desire, but I think the best way to think about it is that just isn't what WotC has decided to sell. You could certainly write to the company and point out to them that there is a customer they could sell a slightly different product to if they would offer it. Maybe if they hear that tune a few times they'll look into it and discover its worth selling an alternative product like a stand-alone CB with a year's worth of free updates for $10 or even $5 or whatever. It is possible.

As I and other's have said though, the existing alternative of paying $10 each time you want to update really doesn't seem that bad. I don't know whom you play with or what materials you frequently want updated in your CB but for a lot of people that seems to work pretty well. They may not get to include the newest stuff for a while, but at this point the amount of stuff in 4e is so huge that you could play a different character every day for 1000 years and never even play the same CLASS twice. Most players play a character for months or even years. In my own campaign 70% of the characters that have ever been played are classes from PHB1 and nobody has even tried a PHB2 race yet at all! They do use powers and items from some of the power books and even some Dragon stuff but we'll never run out of material, nor is a player that only uses stuff from a couple of the books likely to run out or even feel like they are missing out. If they REALLY REALLY see something new they simply can't resist playing with then they can sign up for a month and pay the $10 to get access to it.

Given that we play a weekly 3-5 hour session D&D is extraordinarily cheap entertainment too. In almost 3 years now we've easily played (conservatively) 400 hours of 4e. I think its fair to say the whole group has maybe spent $500 on D&D stuff, so its cost us maybe $.25 per person/hour of entertainment. If we all went to a movie once a week we'd have easily spent 10x that amount of money. D&D is dirt cheap entertainment, maybe the cheapest form there is. I applaud WotC on the ability to provide such good value for my money.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
I can't be the only one that finds such practices, unethical.



Probably not - I'm sure there are plenty of completely misled people in the world just like you.
Color me flattered.

LIFE CYCLE OF A RULES THREAD

Show
Thank_Dog wrote:

2Chlorobutanal wrote:
I think that if you have to argue to convince others about the clarity of something, it's probably not as objectively clear as you think.

No, what it means is that some people just like to be obtuse.

I can't be the only one that finds such practices, unethical.




Probably not - I'm sure there are plenty of completely misled people in the world just like you.




Misled, lol.

The character generator is like saying. You want to eat chocolate cake? I will sell you a chocolate cake, but first you have to buy 30 cook books talking about cooking pastries....but, I just want some cake? sol, I guess.
The character generator is like saying. You want to eat chocolate cake? I will sell you a chocolate cake, but first you have to buy 30 cook books talking about cooking pastries....but, I just want some cake? sol, I guess.

No, not even close.
To mantain your cake analogy it is closer to saying "You want some cake, her have some, and have all these cookbooks for free with it, want another cake sure, and here are some new cookbooks" where each cake is a builder update, and the cookbooks are all the other things that come with a D&Di subscription.

and yes, mislead is probabilly a good term, as you are certainly mislead about what unethical means. The price is fair and has to balance out all the lost book sales from people who just keep updating the builder rather then buying the books. Now if you had to pay by the book, and they charged full retail price for each book added to your copy of the builder, that would be closer to unethical, but still not, just really greedy.

Unethical would be setting the builder up so if you missed an update it disabled itself, so you have to keep paying to mantain the use of the builder. 
Let's try this again.

Bang for your Buck, Getting a DDI subscription just for the character builder is the Worst Investment you can make in gaming. Nevermind that it's 'getting you rules for free' crap that people will try to sell down your throat, the fact is that your average user is paying 120 a year for about 90 dollars of material that they are using. (This assumes you play one class, and you buy that power book, the new PHB, and maybe a Campaign Setting Players Guide).

Now, this is fine, *if* you want the magazines. When you buy a DDI subscription, you better WANT the magazines, for that is what you are getting. In fact, as a Magazine Subscription, it is also a Worse Investment for your dollar.  It costs 42 dollars A YEAR for Goodman Games Level Up Magazine. 

The Character Builder is not worth 10 dollars every time you want to update it. The fact of the matter is that Character Builder  should cost 20 dollars FLAT, and Give updates for free (Like their competitors do). Maybe even sell the powers books for 5 bucks each, if you pansy people are all uptight about it, but Update EVERYTHING for free. It is because your character builder is what promotes your game. It's what keeps people playing by the same rules. It's because quite frankly, it's an insult to insist that people pay a subscription for what an intern is doing in the back room.

 Now, I am not saying that Dungeons and Dragons Magazine might not be worth your time and money. I'm not saying that those that go for the year subscription should Have to pay for the Character Builder (In fact, I recommend you still give it to them for free.). I do think that the marriage between the Character Builder and the Magazines is a horrible idea, especially if they continue to do what they did last year and sell you your next players handbook TWICE to you. 

TL:DR
Sell the bloody CB for 20 dollars, allow updates for free, sell expansions for the Power Books. Keep People Happy.
IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/0a90721d221e50e5755af156c179fe51.jpg?v=90000)
I could buy 2 or 3 D&D hardcovers for $70.  Or I could buy a year's subscription to D&DI and get it all.  All the classes, all the paragon paths, all the epic destinies, all the feats, all the powers, everything . . . for an entire year, book after book.

Or, I could could spend less ($10) and still get everything up to this date and own the CB for ever.  The drawback:  No new releases (no updates to the CB).

Or, I could ignore D&DI completely.  I'd rather spend a few bucks and have some fun though ;).  I just don't understand the reluctance to give Insider a trial run, not at that price.b  It's literally the cost of a couple of Happy Meals. 
/\ Art
the fact is that your average user is paying 120 a year for about 90 dollars of material that they are using.

but if you know you are going to be getting it for a year, you only pay $71.40, which is $18.20 less then your $90. so this analogy is flawed. 

The Character Builder is not worth 10 dollars every time you want to update it.

Well that depends on what that update allows for as a secondary effect, if it lets you not buy a $30-$40 book you would be buying otherwise, then yes it does become worth it, because it saves you $20+, and before you try to rant that this does not happen, there are numerous people who hae said they got a subscription and made serious cutbacks on their purchasing. Plus if you only do this for the books you want, you can drop your yearly price down to $20-$30 from your origional $90
The fact of the matter is that Character Builder  should cost 20 dollars FLAT, and Give updates for free (Like their competitors do).

No it should not, you think it should, but that is not the case. The price needs to reflect how something effects the rest of your business, and a flat $20 for something that will cost you thousands sales is not intilligent, is is quite the opposite.


TL:DR
Sell the bloody CB for 20 dollars, allow updates for free, sell expansions for the Power Books. Keep People Happy.



The problem is all this gets into opinions about what values different people place on things. Maybe even more to the point it gets into guesses about what the actual economics of D&D are for WotC.

To use another car analogy (this place is starting to sound like Slashdot!) its like saying a Honda Insight is worth $15,000 to you because you don't care about the fact that its a hybrid, etc. and so its a raw deal to pay more than that for it. Yeah, OK, TO YOU that's the value, and nobody has any business saying that's not a fair assessment, it is just your assessment of its value to you. For the guy that wants a hybrid car the fair assessment is against other similar cars and he may find the $30,000 price tag to be a perfectly reasonable proposition. Finally, and more importantly, its all moot if Honda can't sell you an Insight for less than $30,000 and still make enough profit for it to be worth it in the first place. Sure it might 'keep people happy' for them to charge half as much and they'd probably sell a lot more of them, but what's the point if they go out of business doing it?

I don't know if WotC can sell a CB and free updates for $20 or not and make money. Maybe they can, maybe they can't. Like I said before, write to them and ask them nicely if they would consider creating that product so you can buy it. Maybe they will.
That is not dead which may eternal lie
The character builder is free with full updates if you want to make characters level 1 to 3.
Write your own character generator.  Fill it manually with your own data.  Cost = Free.

Celebrate our differences.



Misled, lol.

The character generator is like saying. You want to eat chocolate cake? I will sell you a chocolate cake, but first you have to buy 30 cook books talking about cooking pastries....but, I just want some cake? sol, I guess.


...which isn't unethical. It would be unethical if they made you that deal then backed out. But as they are simply bundling product offers, no, they aren't doing anything unethical.
Color me flattered.

LIFE CYCLE OF A RULES THREAD

Show
Thank_Dog wrote:

2Chlorobutanal wrote:
I think that if you have to argue to convince others about the clarity of something, it's probably not as objectively clear as you think.

No, what it means is that some people just like to be obtuse.

  • Sub for rules from a new book (plus everything else that has come out): $10

  • New book: $25 to $40


This is like walking into a store and seeing:
  • Cake + chef's current complete cookbook collection: $10

  • Cake:  $25 to $40


And here's the kicker, if you bought the $10 package a year ago and the chef's collection expanded by five books, you get those five new books along with the cake, not just the latest one that prompted you to buy it. Don't care about some of those books? Luckily you don't have to physically store "unwanted" character builder updates on a shelf or physically throw them away.

However, the analogy is more accurate if you think of the cake as the duration of the subscription and the books as the Character Builder content, since you don't lose access to the content you've downloaded. In which case it becomes:
  • Cake + cookbook collection: $10

  • Individual cookbooks: $25 to $40/ea.


Let's take it a step further, though:
  • Cake + cookbook collection + cooking magazine collection (every issue ever): $10

  • Individual cookbooks: $25 to $40/ea.


What exactly is there to complain about?
I can't be the only one that finds such practices, unethical.





Probably not - I'm sure there are plenty of completely misled people in the world just like you.





Misled, lol.

The character generator is like saying. You want to eat chocolate cake? I will sell you a chocolate cake, but first you have to buy 30 cook books talking about cooking pastries....but, I just want some cake? sol, I guess.




Gawd! You really are misled! The product is not the character generator but D&D Insider. They are selling you access to the whole program which includes the character creator software. The reason they are bundling the services together is to create a value-added service to D&D. If they sold everything piece meal, it wouldn't make sense to produce any of it. If the value isn't reasonable to you then do not purchase. No one is cheating you or taking advantage of you. And in today's economy, that is a non-sequtiar spouted by economic illiterate people.  The RPG hobby is smaller than in was in 2000 and they are trying to build a product that is profitable enough to maintain the line. D&D Insider is apart of that. If you don't like it, you do not need it. It is possible to build characters the old fashioned way. But, by subscribing to D&D Insider you do not need to purchase the books. 


As the economy is now, I think 71 dollars is really not even close to it's actual value. I just wish people would stop being so underhanded and sell you things you dont want or need to get what you actually want. I won't pay a single dollar just off principle alone. You will not force me to give you money through manipulation.


 

They are not being underhanded. They are being totally upfront and honest with you. You don't want the service then do not buy it. But they are being totally honest with you. 
Free Character Generator: go here

Print out, and fill in relative information with a pencil. badabing there ya go, problem solved. No need to thank me.
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Free Character Generator: go here

Print out, and fill in relative information with a pencil. badabing there ya go, problem solved. No need to thank me.




You mean I have to purchase the books to have access to all the options! Why is Wizards of the Coast so dishonest by forcing me to buy products to access to their content! I won't give $1 to a company that wants me to be a customer to have access to their products. 
Free Character Generator: go here

Print out, and fill in relative information with a pencil. badabing there ya go, problem solved. No need to thank me.





You mean I have to purchase the books to have access to all the options! Why is Wizards of the Coast so dishonest by forcing me to buy products to access to their content! I won't give $1 to a company that wants me to be a customer to have access to their products. 



No you dont have to buy anything! Just as long as atleast one person in the group has a book.

But I really dont understand your comment? You dont want to give money to a company that wants you to be a customer!? Then you must not buy ANYTHING ever!!!
I survived Section 4 and all I got was this lousy sig Off-topic and going downhill from there
Windshadow was being sarcastic. (I hope)

I can't believe there are people who think that DDi isn't worth the price. What you're getting for $70 a year is ALL of 4e. The whole thing. Everything that is published plus some exclusive stuff isn't published. Plus a collection of convienient, high quality tools.

It had got to be over ten thousand pages of content. And you can get ALL of it for a one time payment of $10. Then any time something is released for D&D you can decide if you want that book/supplement/whatever and get it for $10.

I consider D&Di as a subscription to the character builder more than anything else. And the rest of the stuff is just a neat bonus.


I'm going to say this one more time for emphasis. The character creater / compendium is ALL of fourth edition. You seriously want it to be free?

It does make me wonder if they sold the two magazines seperately how many people would actually pay for them...
Sign In to post comments