So, what about Dark Sun?

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It seems the Dark Sun books are coming out soon. From various previews, it has been inferred that these contain several new character options,
  • Thri-khreen and mul races

  • A new warlock pact

  • Paragon paths and epic destinies

  • Character themes, which are like backgrounds that give you an extra L1 encounter power


I would be curious to hear which of these, if any, are going to be legal in LFR play.

As soon as the globals have the books, and have had the time to think it over, we will let you know ;)

Thri-keens btw have been part of the FR for ages. They live(d) in the plains surrounding the Great Rift. I suspect those at least are going to be legal. I don't know about the rest. Like with Eberron, WotC asks us to make as much as possible accessible, but without adding the truly defining stuff such as dragonmarks and the like. Without the books it is a bit hard to determine what is and is not defining.
From the information thus far, I would suggest that Themes are akin to Dragonmarks and should likely remain campaign-specific. I would argue that Muls have no place in LFR. Thri-kreen fit, as Madfox stated. New individual rules items, such as a new pact, likely fit as long as they are not so completely off that they cannot fit. (If the pact is solely driven by Sorcerer-Kings, that would require a lot of reskinning and may be best left out of LFR).

Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!
Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).

I would argue that Muls have no place in LFR D&DCFR.



Fixed that for ya.

You mean like Warforged, Shifters, Shardminds, etc., etc. ?

Defiling/Preserving is definitely setting defining, so I doubt we will see that in D&DCFR.
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Now, now. Don't make me report you to a VCL, you disgruntled gamer you!

Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!
Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).

I would argue that Muls have no place in LFR.



Is legal to play a Warforged who looks like a Mul in LFR?
I would argue that Muls have no place in LFR.



Is legal to play a Warforged who looks like a Mul in LFR?



Here we go again I've explained it before Forgotten Realms is the umbrella under which LFR operates Dark Sun is a "Forgotten Realm", Eberron is a "Forgotten Realm", right on down the line. Almost anything that comes from a "Forgotten Realm" like Spell Jammers, Planscape, Dragonlance, Ravenloft (I know but a person can dream) will be allowed in LFR love it or hate it.            

 
                                                    
Here we go again I've explained it before Forgotten Realms is the umbrella under which LFR operates Dark Sun is a "Forgotten Realm", Eberron is a "Forgotten Realm", right on down the line. Almost anything that comes from a "Forgotten Realm" like Spell Jammers, Planscape, Dragonlance, Ravenloft (I know but a person can dream) will be allowed in LFR love it or hate it.



Interesting perspective.  From what I have read, the phrase "Forgotten Realms" refers to the world of Toril-Abeir in specific, not to all published campaign settings in general.  This seems to be an overwhelmingly common perception.
Here we go again I've explained it before Forgotten Realms is the umbrella under which LFR operates Dark Sun is a "Forgotten Realm", Eberron is a "Forgotten Realm", right on down the line. Almost anything that comes from a "Forgotten Realm" like Spell Jammers, Planscape, Dragonlance, Ravenloft (I know but a person can dream) will be allowed in LFR love it or hate it.   



And, here I go again...I've explained this before, too.  Your presumption that the name "Forgotten Realms" makes the campaign world a catch-all for every other campaign world is incorrect.  "Forgotten Realms" was the name which Ed Greenwood (creator of the setting) gave to it when he first started writing fantasy fiction in it as a kid, around 1967.  It was the name which Greenwood used when he first started publishing articles in Dragon magazine about his home D&D campaign, around 1982.  And, thus, it was the name that the setting had when TSR bought the rights to it from Greenwood in the late 1980s.

Certain other campaign settings (at least, before 3E) -- Spelljammer and Planescape, at least, and maybe Ravenloft, too -- acted as sort of "meta-worlds", interconnecting various other TSR campaign settings.  That *doesn't* mean that Spelljammer, for example, became part of the Realms...it meant that players, using the Spelljammer setting, could travel, if they wanted to, between, say, Toril and Greyhawk. 

Since the 3E reboot of the Realms, however, there has been *no* canon connection between the Realms (defined as Abeir-Toril) and any other campaign setting / game world.

Now, in the 4E/LFR era, the LFR staff has been given instructions to include as much from the other campaign setting books (Eberron last year, Dark Sun this year) as they could...assuming they could make such items fit in the Realms campaign setting.  For example, Warforged, from the Eberron setting, are allowed...but, in LFR, a Warforged is *not* a refugee from Eberron; he's native to Abeir-Toril (and one doesn't need to work too hard to figure out a reasonably feasible backstory for the existance of Warforged in the Realms, which has *nothing* to do with Eberron).  Conversely, the staff decided to exclude dragonmarks, because they don't fit well with the Realms setting; nor can your LFR cleric be a worshipper of a deity from the Eberron setting, because they simply do not exist in the Realms.  If your supposition that "Eberron is a 'Forgotten Realm'" were true, then those would be allowed in LFR, as well.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forgotten_Realms
forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Forgotten...
"Of course [Richard] has a knife. He always has a knife. We all have knives. It's 1183, and we're barbarians!" - Eleanor of Aquitaine, "The Lion in Winter"
I would argue that Muls have no place in LFR D&DCFR.



Fixed that for ya.

You mean like Warforged, Shifters, Shardminds, etc., etc. ?

Defiling/Preserving is definitely setting defining, so I doubt we will see that in D&DCFR.



Yeah, right.  Since when are Warforged legal?
Hmmm... you bring up a good point.  Are warforged legal for LFR?
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Hmmm... you bring up a good point.  Are warforged legal for LFR?



What isnt legal in LFR?  I mean its D&DCFR right.
Hmmm... you bring up a good point.  Are warforged legal for LFR?



What isnt legal in LFR?  I mean its D&DCFR right.


Don't make me report you to... wait, I just saw a black cat walk by twice... that means they changed something!

(It was a warforged cat with Goggles of Canaith)

Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!
Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).

AHH!  Glitch in the Matrix!

Are you sure it was the same cat or one that just looked like it, Mr. Alphastream?
Sorry WOTC, you lost me with Essentials. So where I used to buy every book that came out, now I will be very choosy about what I buy. Can we just get back to real 4e? Check out the 4e Conversion Wiki. 1. Wizards fight dirty. They hit their enemies in the NADs. -- Dragon9 2. A barbarian hits people with his axe. A warlord hits people with his barbarian. 3. Boo-freakin'-hoo, ya light-slingin' finger-wigglers. -- MrCelcius in response to the Cleric's Healer's Lore nerf
Personally,

Dark Sun is such a different and interesting place that i'd like to see a campaign start up for it, just like LFR, but that won't happen......

It seems a waste to me to release a campaign world and then only have parts of it be used, except for home games. Makes me wonder about the release of Gamma World later in the year, is this a catch all for Wizards to test the reception of these worlds before they look at backing them or is it purely for home play?

Or, with Gamma World is it going to replace Star Wars as Wizards Sci-fi world, since they've lost the rights to SW's and this would be something they can completely control.

Hmm.
Dark Sun is such a different and interesting place that i'd like to see a campaign start up for it, just like LFR, but that won't happen......

Part of the problem is that, being such a different place, it's ill-suited for a general interest campaign: moreso than with FR, you have to choose between the setting's flavor and supporting many of the races and classes, and even the ones you support aren't going to have the familiar generic fantasy flavor new players would expect.

My guess had been that whatever campaign setting is released in 2011 would be next up for a new living campaign.  Though, if the doom and gloom I'm expecting for LFR comes to pass, there's good odds that WOTC will see that as a failure of the living campaign model as a whole, rather than a failure of the direction staff chose to go, and LFR will be the last living campaign for quite some time.
AHH!  Glitch in the Matrix!

Are you sure it was the same cat or one that just looked like it, Mr. Alphastream?


W-wait, why am I suddenly holding a pair of rotary automatic shotguns?




-karma

LFR Characters: Lady Tiana Elinden Kobori Silverwane - Drow Control Wizard | Kro'tak Warscream - Orc Bard | Fulcrum of Gond - Warforged Laser Cleric

AL Character: Talia Ko'bori Silverwane - Tiefling Tome Fiend Warlock


W-wait, why am I suddenly holding a pair of rotary automatic shotguns?



I had forgotten there were other kinds of shotguns...

Follow my blog and Twitter feed with Dark Sun campaign design and DM tips!
Dark Sun's Ashes of Athas Campaign is now available for home play (PM me with your e-mail to order the campaign adventures).

Personally,

Dark Sun is such a different and interesting place that i'd like to see a campaign start up for it, just like LFR, but that won't happen......

It seems a waste to me to release a campaign world and then only have parts of it be used, except for home games. Makes me wonder about the release of Gamma World later in the year, is this a catch all for Wizards to test the reception of these worlds before they look at backing them or is it purely for home play?

Or, with Gamma World is it going to replace Star Wars as Wizards Sci-fi world, since they've lost the rights to SW's and this would be something they can completely control.

Hmm.

I agree. DS has always been one of my favorite settings. I would love a Living Dark Sun. But then again, why not make every campaign setting accesible across the board since players can travel from world to world through the planes anyway. They would just need back story as to why they were in a particular world/place. Generally your average citizen cannot travel between the worlds, but our characters are heroes and strange things happen.
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