5/26/2010 StF: "What Is Flavor?"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Savor the Flavor, which goes live Wednesday on magicthegathering.com.
Flavor is simple to understand, really.  There's bitter, which is usually derived from caustics; salty, which is usually sodium-derived, but potassium or magnesium compounds sometimes work as well, sour, which is usually caused by most simple acids; sweet, from sugar and some alcohols; and savory, which is caused by the nitrogen-bearing amino acids, mostly glutamates.

Every flavor is largely a combination of those, with scent incorporated somehow.
Flavor is simple to understand, really.  There's bitter, which is usually derived from caustics; salty, which is usually sodium-derived, but potassium or magnesium compounds sometimes work as well, sour, which is usually caused by most simple acids; sweet, from sugar and some alcohols; and savory, which is caused by the nitrogen-bearing amino acids, mostly glutamates.

Every flavor is largely a combination of those, with scent incorporated somehow.



I've heard rumors that there's some sort of abstract... thing around, a sort of measure on how well representative objects can recreate the essence of their influence, that is for some reason also called "flavor". Ludicrous, I know.

And now, on a completely different note, HELL YES NICOL BOLAS! I know it's pretty much been confirmed for ages that he's going to be back, but still. Bolas is awesome.
Rules Nut Advisor
I've heard rumors that there's some sort of abstract... thing around, a sort of measure on how well representative objects can recreate the essence of their influence, that is for some reason also called "flavor". Ludicrous, I know.

Umm... strawberries?

And now, on a completely different note, HELL YES NICOL BOLAS! I know it's pretty much been confirmed for ages that he's going to be back, but still. Bolas is awesome.

Sure, why not?  Nicky's about the only worthwhile 'vilian' Magic has had since, um, well mostly ever.

Greeeeeat.  Nicol Bolas is going to be jumping out and saying "boo" every time some market-research nebbish decides the game needs to "embrace the core values of the brand by revisiting familiar themes and satisfying audience expectation".  So much for anybody bothering to create an interesting and original villain for the next several years.

Bringing Bolas back *once* was a nice nod to the game's history.  Turning him into Magic's version of the Devil and blaming everything bad that ever happens to anyone anywhere on him?  That's just lazy writing, and is rapidly turning a once-impressive villain into a played-out cliche, if it hasn't already done so.  Boo, hiss, please kill him for real so we as a nation can move on.
My New Phyrexia Writing Credits My M12 Writing Credits
As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing. --Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi
Greeeeeat.  Nicol Bolas is going to be jumping out and saying "boo" every time some market-research nebbish decides the game needs to "embrace the core values of the brand by revisiting familiar themes and satisfying audience expectation".  So much for anybody bothering to create an interesting and original villain for the next several years.

Bringing Bolas back *once* was a nice nod to the game's history.  Turning him into Magic's version of the Devil and blaming everything bad that ever happens to anyone anywhere on him?  That's just lazy writing, and is rapidly turning a once-impressive villain into a played-out cliche, if it hasn't already done so.  Boo, hiss, please kill him for real so we as a nation can move on.

I agree with this 100%.

I've heard rumors that there's some sort of abstract... thing around, a sort of measure on how well representative objects can recreate the essence of their influence, that is for some reason also called "flavor". Ludicrous, I know.

Umm... strawberries?



Don't mind if I do: 





And now, on a completely different note, HELL YES NICOL BOLAS! I know it's pretty much been confirmed for ages that he's going to be back, but still. Bolas is awesome.

Sure, why not?  Nicky's about the only worthwhile 'vilian' Magic has had since, um, well mostly ever.




Yeah, I don't mind it. Sometimes it's nice to have some sort of thread that weaves in out of the tapestry, sometimes hidden amongst other things, sometimes front and center.
Proud member of C.A.R.D. - Campaign Against Rare Duals "...but the time has come when lands just need to be better. Creatures have gotten stronger, spells have always been insane, and lands just sat in this awkward place of necessity." Jacob Van Lunen on the refuge duals, 16 Sep 2009. "While it made thematic sense to separate enemy and allied color fixing in the past, we have come around to the definite conclusion that it is just plain incorrect from a game-play perspective. This is one of these situations where game play should just trump flavor." - Sam Stoddard on ending the separation of allied/enemy dual lands. 05 July 2013
Greeeeeat.  Nicol Bolas is going to be jumping out and saying "boo" every time some market-research nebbish[...]

That's just the way villains work.
Replacing "Nicol Bolas" with "Mishra" or "Marit Lage" or "Yawgmoth" or "some random idiot from Urborg" just gives us the same net result.

Greeeeeat. Nicol Bolas is going to be jumping out and saying "boo" every time some market-research nebbish[...]

That's just the way villains work.
Replacing "Nicol Bolas" with "Mishra" or "Marit Lage" or "Yawgmoth" or "some random idiot from Urborg" just gives us the same net result.




Not hardly.  Yawgmoth, for instance, is a *great* villain, and while even he is fairly played out IMO, it took an extremely long career of his brand of villainy before I tired of it (he was mentioned for the first time in friggin' ANTIQUITIES, and his influence was still being felt as recently as Time Spiral).  Nicol Bolas isn't even close to being as cool as Yawgmoth, and is already rapidly growing tiresome.  He might as well have the word "Uber" in his name - oh wait, it's in his mana cost, same difference.   I consider him Magic's iconic paragon, not of wickedness, but of trying too hard.

Want to know which villain I'd like to see again?  The Cabal Patriarch.  He had style.  I could totally see him getting resurrected by Leshrac and carried along to Ravnica where he hooks up with the Ghost-Council of Orzhova and teaches them some new tricks about parting the masses from their gold.  Another excellent candidate would be the faceless stalker Ur-Drago, who is indeed some idiot from Urborg (actually he might be very smart, we just can't really tell), but I wouldn't call him random.

Actually, a quick pass through Legends will turn up a dozen sinister characters I'd like to know more about.  That's not counting villain characters that aren't black (the red-aligned Mercadian Magistrate amuses me greatly, Lord Konda of Kamigawa explored the concept of white evil neatly, and Memnarch was amazing), or black characters that aren't villain (pre-Evincar Crovax remains possibly my single favorite character in the canon).  And of course, without the nebbish's influence, we might actually get some NEW villains.

My point is, all of this isn't going to happen as long as Nicol Bolas's picture is in the Wizards dictionary under "Big Bad".  Don't let a once-awesome villain turn into an old, tired cliche.  Save him for a rainy day and either give us some new hotness or a deeper look at some previously throwaway character (I reiterate my mention of Ur-Drago; nobody that looks that awesome deserves to be a walking Quagmire whose combined power and toughness equal his CMC).
My New Phyrexia Writing Credits My M12 Writing Credits
As far as the benefit of the rest of Magic is concerned, gold cards in Legends were executed perfectly. They got all the excitement a designer could hope out of a splashy new mechanic without using up any of the valuable design space. Truly amazing. --Aaron Forsythe's Random Card Comment on Kei Takahashi
Article is wrong, rebound is plenty flavorful, should have been 2,000 words about how Staggershock is the most flavorful card in a set dripping with flavor.
Greeeeeat.  Nicol Bolas is going to be jumping out and saying "boo" every time some market-research nebbish decides the game needs to "embrace the core values of the brand by revisiting familiar themes and satisfying audience expectation".  So much for anybody bothering to create an interesting and original villain for the next several years.

Bringing Bolas back *once* was a nice nod to the game's history.  Turning him into Magic's version of the Devil and blaming everything bad that ever happens to anyone anywhere on him?  That's just lazy writing, and is rapidly turning a once-impressive villain into a played-out cliche, if it hasn't already done so.  Boo, hiss, please kill him for real so we as a nation can move on.


I was going to talk about the return of Bolas, but you've said everything I was going to say. So thank you pell.
OMG click HERE! OMG! How to autocard and use decklist format
--->
For autocarding, write [c][/c] with the name of the card inside it. [c]Island[/c] = Island For linking a card to Gatherer without writting the name of said card for readers, use the autocard brackets together with and equal sign and right the name of the real card. Then put the message you want inside the tags, like you would do with autocarding. Like this: [c=Curse of the Cabal]Captain Never-resolves[/c] = Captain Never-resolves For using the decklist format, follow this: [deck] 4* Terramorphic Expanse 4* Evolving Wilds ... [/deck] It equals:
Real signature, Sblocked for space:
57817638 wrote:
I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
Listen to my SoundCloud while you read my signature. The Island, Come And See, The Landlord's Daughter, You'll Not Feel The Drowning - The Decemberists by vimschy IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/rkvR.gif)IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/L3es.gif) IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/m71H.gif)
Quotes
56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!
Oh, don't worry. One way or another, Bolas will go down eventually, just like every other villain Magic has had. Then we'll get someone else who you will hopefully dislike better. I haven't played long enough to know the deal behind these other guys, but I think an ultra-powerful elder dragon planeswalker is pretty cool for the time being.
Rules Nut Advisor
Oh, don't worry. One way or another, Bolas will go down eventually, just like every other villain Magic has had. Then we'll get someone else who you will hopefully dislike better. I haven't played long enough to know the deal behind these other guys, but I think an ultra-powerful elder dragon planeswalker is pretty cool for the time being.


He is, but not when he is behind every plot in every set of Magic (not counting core sets) for 2 years.
OMG click HERE! OMG! How to autocard and use decklist format
--->
For autocarding, write [c][/c] with the name of the card inside it. [c]Island[/c] = Island For linking a card to Gatherer without writting the name of said card for readers, use the autocard brackets together with and equal sign and right the name of the real card. Then put the message you want inside the tags, like you would do with autocarding. Like this: [c=Curse of the Cabal]Captain Never-resolves[/c] = Captain Never-resolves For using the decklist format, follow this: [deck] 4* Terramorphic Expanse 4* Evolving Wilds ... [/deck] It equals:
Real signature, Sblocked for space:
57817638 wrote:
I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
Listen to my SoundCloud while you read my signature. The Island, Come And See, The Landlord's Daughter, You'll Not Feel The Drowning - The Decemberists by vimschy IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/rkvR.gif)IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/L3es.gif) IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/m71H.gif)
Quotes
56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!
You know the "Nobody expects Jinjo" meme?  Maybe Magic players should start a "Nobody expects Nicol" one. >_>
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