Fighter/Warden, or How to Break an Enemy Line

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This build is designed to stack str and con modifiers to damage, while pushing your slowed and prone enemies all over the battlefield.  You can pull enemies to you, then if they try to get away, either by moving or shifting, you can slow and push them.

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 16
Dragonborn, Fighter|Warden, Iron Vanguard
Hybrid Warden: Hybrid Warden Will
Hybrid Talent: Warden's Armored Might
Guardian Might: Earthstrength
Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength
Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Acid

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 22, Con 20, Dex 14, Int 9, Wis 11, Cha 14.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 16, Dex 13, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 11.


AC: 32 Fort: 31 Reflex: 26 Will: 25
HP: 126 Surges: 14 Surge Value: 36

TRAINED SKILLS
Perception +13, Endurance +15, Athletics +16

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +7, Arcana +7, Bluff +10, Diplomacy +10, Dungeoneering +8, Heal +8, History +9, Insight +8, Intimidate +12, Nature +8, Religion +7, Stealth +7, Streetwise +10, Thievery +7

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Weapon Expertise (Hammer)
Level 4: Sudden Roots (retrained to Hindering Shield at Level 11)
Level 6: Crippling Crush
Level 8: Hammering Iron
Level 10: Shield Push
Level 11: Draconic Arrogance
Level 12: Weapon Focus (Hammer)
Level 14: Battering Shield
Level 16: Hammer Rhythm

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Tide of Iron
Hybrid at-will 1: Thorn Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Thunder Ram Assault
Hybrid daily 1: Form of Winter's Herald
Hybrid utility 2: Grit and Spittle
Hybrid encounter 3: Bull Charge
Hybrid daily 5: Driving Attack
Hybrid utility 6: Unbreakable
Hybrid encounter 7: Come and Get It
Hybrid daily 9: Form of the Fearsome Ram
Hybrid utility 10: Earthstride
Hybrid encounter 13: Crumpling Slam (replaces Bull Charge)
Hybrid daily 15: Boulder Charge (replaces Form of Winter's Herald)
Hybrid utility 16: Cleansing Earth

ITEMS
Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Avalanche Boots (heroic tier), Gauntlets of the Ram (heroic tier), Horned Helm (heroic tier), Heavy Shield, Magic Feyhide Armor +4, Knockback Warhammer +3, Badge of the Berserker +4, Belt of Blood (heroic tier)



Notes on this build:
  • Pushing or prone attacks add +str mod and + con mod to damage.  (This doubles if the power does both.)

  • Whenever you push someone, you slow them with hindering shield and damage them with crippling crush.

  • The magic number for pushing is 5 squares total, since that is farther than a slowed enemy can move + charge.  Any combination of items/feats to give +4 is sufficient, and anything in excess is overkill.

  • With nature's wrath you can mark a second enemy other than your attack target, so you can use combat challenge on it.


Example: Tide of Iron is an at will W + (str x2) + (con x2) attack that pushes (5+) and slows.  So are your opp attacks and combat challenge.

Example: Crumpling Slam is an encounter 2W + (str x3) + (con x3) that pushes (5+), slows, and prones.

Example: Driving attack is a daily 2W + (str x2) + (con x2) with a secondary 1W + (str x3) + (con x3) that pushes (5+), slows, and prones.


For best results, use terrain to your advantage, and combine this build with a zone happy controller like a wizard.  Knock enemies off cliffs, and keep them slowed and prone inside a wall of fire.  Also, be prepared to teleport to the other side of the combat with earthstride and knock squishy enemies to your strikers (or just off a cliff).  Form of the fearsome ram and its attack is a great way to move 8, shift 8, push a caster 8 back to your party, knock it prone, and shift all the way back to it, all with a move and standard.


Summary of feat choices:
  • Level 1: Hybrid Talent--Earthstrength not only provides neat riders, it also gives you a get out of jail card if you find yourself bloodied and surrounded by bad guys.  I also prefer the mobility of hide armor for this build, though if you wanted, you could take fighter armor prof and get plate.  (Useful a with the Adamantine Soldier ED)

  • Level 2: Weapon Expertise (Hammer)---Self explanitory

  • Level 4: Sudden Roots (retrained to Hindering Shield at Level 11)--you are still a defender, and the loss of combat superiority means you need some sort of stickiness.  At L11 this is retrained to hindering shield, because every push, slide, or pull then slows.

  • Level 6: Crippling Crush---Con damage on slows

  • Level 8: Hammering Iron---Opp attacks push

  • Level 10: Shield Push---Combat challenge attack pushes

  • Level 11: Draconic Arrogance---Str damage on push or prone, which is every power in this build

  • Level 12: Weapon Focus (Hammer)---More stackable damage.

  • Level 14: Battering Shield---Extra +1 square on pushes.

  • Level 16: Hammer Rhythm---Extra damage when you miss.


Summary of power choices:
  • at-will 1: Tide of Iron---bread and butter push attack, with hindering shield you can knock melee off your squishies and make sure they don't come back for at least a round, or position them in aoes for your controllers.

  • at-will 1: Thorn Strike---pull casters/ranged to you, and since it's a pull, they are also slowed.

  • encounter 1: Thunder Ram Assault---Push an enemy into your aoe, then push everyone in the aoe.  Great double hit power.  Or if you don't care about double damage, then send the slowed main target flying con mod + adders squares, which in the build above is at least 10.

  • daily 1: Form of Winter's Herald---starting off you are the defender, and the difficult terrain here is too good to pass up, especially since you haven't started stacking damage modifiers yet.

  • utility 2: Grit and Spittle---a minor action and a healing surge is a great tradeoff to make a saving throw on every save ends effect.  To not have font of life, oh well...it's worth it.

  • encounter 3: Bull Charge---push, prone and charge attack all in one.

  • daily 5: Driving Attack---double attack that has two push components and one prone.  Yes.

  • utility 6: Unbreakable---more survivability, and usable every encounter.  Like surgeless healing.

  • encounter 7: Come and Get It---this is even better on you.  You mark, slow, and autodamage everyone you pull.

  • daily 9: Form of the Fearsome Ram---Why take a L1 power now?  +2 speed, +2 charge attacks, and all pushes are at +1 square.  Check out the encounter power too, which pretty much lets you push anyone on the battlefield wherever you want, then shift back to them.  Yay for nova rounds!

  • utility 10: Earthstride---Since you are more aggresive than a normal defender, you want to get to the casters on ledges and knock them off, or just get yourself out of a sticky situation.  A teleport 6 on a pusher is golden.

  • encounter 13: Crumpling Slam (replaces Bull Charge)---Just add up the modifiers.

  • daily 15: Boulder Charge (replaces Form of Winter's Herald)---Move through as many enemies as you want, don't provoke due to badge of the berserker, then push, slow, and knock prone every enemy you hit.  Combine this with form of the fearsome ram, and see how many enemies you can hit in 8 squares.

  • utility 16: Cleansing Earth---another self saving throw, this one with a bonus equal to your strength.

And for last, the question every hybrid build should answer: Why play this over a single classed X?

Compared to a fighter you lose:
  • +1 to hit (or battlerager vigor)

  • combat superiority or combat agility

  • heavy armor


You gain:
  • the ability to mark a foe you aren't attacking, which is useful when using a single target power like tide of iron or crumpling slam

  • guardian forms, so if you wanted, you could have two total, which are great in epic with a maw of the guardian and the crushing guardian feat

  • better power selection---gaining the powers from two classes mean you have less levels with subpar choices (for example, there are lots of levels with no push fighter powers, or where the utility powers suck)

  • wardens grasp

  • AC on a second wind


Compared to a warden you lose:
  • marking more than two targets

  • font of life


You gain:
  • boatloads of push powers, and the corresponding damage

  • combat challenge attack on a shift

The magic number for pushing is 5 squares total, since that is farther than a slowed enemy can move + charge.  Any combination of items/feats to give +4 is sufficient, and anything in excess is overkill.

Actually, you might shoot for a magic number of  7 squares total.  Any slowed enemy can run + charge and still attack you from 6 squares away.  Other than that, well thought out build/concept!

Running means a -5 to attack and granting CA, so I wouldn't be too worried about that. I would be worried about, however, the enormous amount of enemies who have speeds greater than 6 (and thus would probably just grab as much push enhancements as was possible without prohibitively affecting other things).
Running means a -5 to attack and granting CA, so I wouldn't be too worried about that. I would be worried about, however, the enormous amount of enemies who have speeds greater than 6 (and thus would probably just grab as much push enhancements as was possible without prohibitively affecting other things).



Speed greater than 6 won't matter, slow reduces any speed to 2. That said, at higher levels teleporting enemies and enemies with lots of shift powers come into play.
I absolutely agree that teleporting enemies are a pita, however, this build is still useful when a party is tactical, and uses delaying to its advantage.  A pusher makes a great initiator because they can reach bad guys on the far side of the map, and knock them all the way back to your delaying melee strikers.  Rogues especially will love you since the enemy will be prone.

While I agree that pushing above 5 squares is great, I feel that after a certain point it becomes less and less useful, and that you are giving up too much by way of other high level enchantments that compete for the same slots on your character.  I mean, if you can get it, great, but if you can't don't sweat it.  Not every push needs to be 12+ squares.
Here's a variant on the above build, using a barbarian/warden instead.  Be aware that the build below is more of a striker, since your stickiness is not as great, but being able to rage in a guardian form is pretty neat.

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 16
Dragonborn, Barbarian|Warden, Iron Vanguard
Hybrid Warden: Hybrid Warden Will
Hybrid Talent: Warden's Armored Might
Guardian Might: Earthstrength
Student of the Sword: Student of One-Handed Weapons
Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength
Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Acid

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 24, Con 18, Dex 11, Int 9, Wis 11, Cha 14.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 18, Con 14, Dex 10, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 11.


AC: 32 Fort: 32 Reflex: 24 Will: 25
HP: 124 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 35

TRAINED SKILLS
Endurance +15, Heal +13, Perception +13, Athletics +18

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +6, Arcana +7, Bluff +10, Diplomacy +10, Dungeoneering +8, History +9, Insight +8, Intimidate +12, Nature +8, Religion +7, Stealth +6, Streetwise +10, Thievery +6

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Student of the Sword
Level 4: Crippling Crush
Level 6: Sudden Roots (retrained to Hindering Shield at Level 11)
Level 8: Weapon Expertise (Hammer)
Level 10: Weapon Focus (Hammer)
Level 11: Draconic Arrogance
Level 12: Hammering Iron
Level 14: Armor Specialization (Hide)
Level 16: Paragon Defenses

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Thorn Strike
Hybrid at-will 1: Pressing Strike
Hybrid encounter 1: Thunder Ram Assault
Hybrid daily 1: Form of the Fearsome Ram
Hybrid utility 2: Grit and Spittle
Hybrid encounter 3: Thundering Howl
Hybrid daily 5: Earthquake Dragon's Rage
Hybrid utility 6: Treacherous Ice
Hybrid encounter 7: Brutal Slam
Hybrid daily 9: Oak Hammer Rage
Hybrid utility 10: Reactive Surge
Hybrid encounter 13: Thunderfall (replaces Thundering Howl)
Hybrid daily 15: Iron Hammer Rage (replaces Earthquake Dragon's Rage)
Hybrid utility 16: Bounding Advance

ITEMS
Heavy Shield, Knockback Warhammer +3, Marauder's Feyhide Armor +4, Iron Armbands of Power (heroic tier), Avalanche Boots (heroic tier), Gauntlets of the Ram (heroic tier), Belt of Blood (heroic tier), Cloak of the Walking Wounded +3, Horned Helm (heroic tier)



The great thing about this build is that the distance you can push people is far greater, and you can push creatures larger than large size with an at-will (unlike tide of iron).  You also have more mobility than a fighter/warden, however, this is at the expense of your stickiness (no combat challenge/aoe pulls.)

Put the new builds into the Miscibility Table. Looks good.
Thanks, the thread about bad hybrids made me want to search out the good ones.  I'll attempt to not make any that have already been done, or that are not as good as a single classed character.
Thanks, the thread about bad hybrids made me want to search out the good ones.  I'll attempt to not make any that have already been done, or that are not as good as a single classed character.



I think the general needs are Controller|X and Leader|X. Defender|X and Striker|X are quite popular.
Here is another variant of a fighter pusher, this time paired with wizard.  OMG!  Something paired with wizard that is not a swordmage or a genasi!  Whatever shall we do?!?

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====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
level 16
Dragonborn, Fighter|Wizard, Kensei
Hybrid Talent: Fighter Armor Proficiency
Arcane Implement Proficiency: Arcane Implement Proficiency (heavy blade group)
Kensei Focus: Kensei Focus Longsword
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Heavy Blade)
Versatile Expertise: Versatile Expertise (Spear)
Dragon Breath Key Ability: Dragon Breath Strength
Dragon Breath Damage Type: Dragon Breath Acid

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 22, Con 11, Dex 14, Int 20, Wis 12, Cha 11.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 16, Con 10, Dex 13, Int 16, Wis 11, Cha 8.


AC: 33 Fort: 31 Reflex: 28 Will: 24
HP: 98 Surges: 7 Surge Value: 24

TRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +18, Endurance +11, Athletics +17

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Bluff +8, Diplomacy +8, Dungeoneering +9, Heal +9, History +15, Insight +9, Intimidate +10, Nature +9, Perception +9, Religion +13, Stealth +8, Streetwise +8, Thievery +8

FEATS
Level 1: Hybrid Talent
Level 2: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 4: White Lotus Hindrance
Level 6: Versatile Expertise
Level 8: Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade)
Level 10: Toughness (retrained to Hindering Shield at Level 11)
Level 11: Draconic Arrogance
Level 12: Resounding Thunder
Level 14: Destructive Wizardry
Level 16: Overwhelming Critical

POWERS
Hybrid at-will 1: Thunderwave
Hybrid at-will 1: Tide of Iron
Hybrid encounter 1: Icy Terrain
Hybrid daily 1: Driving Attack
Hybrid utility 2: Shield
Hybrid encounter 3: Bull Charge
Hybrid daily 5: Grease
Hybrid utility 6: Intimidating Reminder
Hybrid encounter 7: Spectral Ram
Hybrid daily 9: Wall of Fire
Hybrid utility 10: Repelling Shield
Hybrid encounter 13: Thunderlance (replaces Icy Terrain)
Hybrid daily 15: Stonewrack (replaces Wall of Fire)
Hybrid utility 16: Fly

ITEMS
Jagged Longsword +4, Heavy Shield, Magic Stormscale Armor +4, Amulet of Double Fortune +3, Avalanche Boots (heroic tier), Gauntlets of the Ram (heroic tier), Siberys Shard of the Mage (heroic tier), Executioner's Bracers (heroic tier), Circlet of Indomitability (heroic tier), Diamond Cincture (heroic tier)



Notes on the above build:

  • You make swordmages cry.

  • Hindering shield means all of your push powers (which is everything) also slow.

  • Thunderwave is a close blast 4 that pushes 3, slows, and does extra damage from draconic arrogance and kensai.  Squares around you are also difficult terrain if you hit them, so enemies can't move 2 + charge 2 back to you, since that would require 5 movement.

  • Driving attack/bull charge/tide of iron are for single target damage.

  • Let's play push the big bad evil melee monsters into grease/wall of fire/stonewrack!

  • You will always want a jagged long sword, since you can't qualify for a weapon mastery, and overwhelming critical (prone on a crit) + aoe attacks + draconic arrogance is priceless.  Hi hi thunderwave.

  • At epic you want heavy blade opportunity and arcane reach, with your 15 dex.


Why play this build rather than a pure wizard, pure swordmage, or swordmage/wizard hybrid?
  • Your single target dps is superior, and you can push with tide of iron.

  • Hindering shield.  Swordmages and wizards can't use shields, so this feat is wasted on them.  What's the point of pushing if the enemies can just charge right back at full speed?

The magic number for pushing is 5 squares total, since that is farther than a slowed enemy can move + charge.  Any combination of items/feats to give +4 is sufficient, and anything in excess is overkill.

Actually, you might shoot for a magic number of  7 squares total.  Any slowed enemy can run + charge and still attack you from 6 squares away.  Other than that, well thought out build/concept!



I'm sure this is allowed RAW as the wording certainly suggests it, but were I the DM I'm not sure if I'd allow it for a character or a monster. Logically, IMHO, it just doesn't follow. How is one supposed to move "in an all-out sprint" when it's slowed.

First off, good build.

Second, I would use lightening breath so you can take thundering breath which pushes also.

Third, I referenced your build here:  community.wizards.com/go/post/reply/7588...


Since they were looking for these things.
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isn't Crumpling Slam a 2[W] + Str x3 + Con x4 + 3 for dmg?

2[W] + Str + Con (when using hammer) + 3 (enhancement) from power

Draconic Arrogance (push and prone) = Str x2 

Hindering Shield (slow on a push) and Crippling Crush (Con dmg on slow) = Con x1
Trample the Fallen (push and prone) = Con x2

put it all together...

2[W] + Str x3 + Con x4 + 3 

which is pretty insane...

good solid build btw 
I made something similar to your first build, but with polearm shenanigans attached.  I must say, it has been absolutely fantastic in play. 

The ability to mark one target with a warden mark and attack (depending on powers) several other enemies has been outstanding to say the least.  When using the threat for 1 round/enc, the build often threatens 9x9, and sometimes 11x11 (with leader support).

Having spoken to the DM about playing against a fighter/warden build, he agrees that the multimarking and pseudo-ranged punishments are devastating, and tough to deal with.


Here is the link to the original thread, which I may update sometime soon with some comments after having been able to see the build in play.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...