How to differentiate a katana and long sword?

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The campaign setting I am currently in the process of designing takes place in the gap between a western region based on Europe and an Eastern region. Differences in weaponry is going to be a big theme here. How would you suggest I do it?

I was thinking of making the katana a +3/1d8, versatile/high crit, and the longsword a +3/1d8, versatile/brutal. Do you think this would be a good idea?
Khyber is a dark and dangerous place, full of flame and smoke, where ever stranger things lie dormant.
Assuming you also pump up the other weapons or expect them to be underwhelming, that might work out quite nicely.
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TBH, the simplest solution would be to use the scimitar as the katana; a falchion would be a two-handed alternative.
In the past the Katana was set up as a Bastard sword. The katana is not the weapon that the average soldier would be wielding so it makes sense to have it be a superior weapon. If you do want it to be martial I suggest using the longsword as a base for the Asian weapon and the broadsword for the European base weapon.
just call a weapon a different name then.  I have turned a great-spear into a harpoon for my sailor character
A katana is just a curved longsword.  No need for differentiation.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
A katana is just a curved longsword.  No need for differentiation.



I feel that there is and I was asking for suggestions.
Khyber is a dark and dangerous place, full of flame and smoke, where ever stranger things lie dormant.
Doesn't a katana have slightly better slashing ability? I don't know that it's enough to merit a mechanical advantage in a game, but in the RW they seem better suited to it.
Doesn't a katana have slightly better slashing ability? I don't know that it's enough to merit a mechanical advantage in a game, but in the RW they seem better suited to it.


Yes but they are worse at piercing and pretty much suck against actual armor. Unfortunately that is all way above the current D&D level of abstraction. Personally, I just treat them as longswords.
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls. God of ownership and possession.
Unless 4e did something really weird and not historical, the long sword isn't a "versatile" weapon.

A katana should just be a versatile, high-crit long sword.  You could also consider making it a superior weapon.

Unless 4e did something really weird and not historical, the long sword isn't a "versatile" weapon.

A katana should just be a versatile, high-crit long sword.  You could also consider making it a superior weapon.


Yes the longsword is versatile (by D&D terms). And no it's not very historical, but D&D weapons have not been historical for a long time. It's certainly nothing new to 4e.

EDIT: Just to clarify, by not historical I don't mean that longswords shouldn't have been versatile, I was refering to the fact that longswords and bastard swords were the same thing.
Owner and Proprietor of the House of Trolls. God of ownership and possession.
having seen classicly trained German and Italian swordsmen demonstrating the classic longsword it mos definately is a versatile weapon in which the positioning of the second hand is vital for control.
I've homebrewed the following (though no-one has asked for it, and nobody is likely to use it any time soon because of that - it's most "crazy time" brainstorming):

"Katana" Mastery

Iaijutsu Training [Multiclass Iaijutsu]
Prerequisites: Str 13, any martial class
Benefit: You gain proficiency with the bastard sword.  Once per encounter, when you draw a bastard sword you gain a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with that weapon until the end of your turn.

Iaijutsu Novice [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Iaijutsu Training, 4th level
Benefit: You can swap one 3rd-level or higher encounter power you know for the Iaijutsu Strike attack power.

    Iaijutsu Strike            Feat Power
    In one fluid motion you draw your blade and strike your foes, exploiting their surprise.
    Encounter * Martial, Weapon
    Standard Action    Close burst 1
    Special: You must draw a bastard sword as part of this attack.
    Target: Each enemy in burst.
    Attack: Strength vs. AC
    Hit: 1[W] + Strength modifier damage.  If you have combat advantage against the target, the attack deals extra damage equal to your Dexterity modifier.
        At 11th level, increase to 2[W] damage.
        At 21st level, increase to 3[W] damage.

Iaijutsu Expert [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Iaijutsu Training, 8th level
Benefit: You can swap one 6th-level or higher utility power you know for the Intimidating Blade utility power.

    Intimidating Blade            Feat Power
    The glint of your blade and the fire in your eyes cut a swath of fear through your foes.
    Daily * Fear, Martial, Stance, Weapon
    Free Action        Personal
    Trigger: You draw a bastard sword.
    Effect: Until the stance ends, adjacent unmarked enemies take a -2 penalty on attacks against you, and you can make the following attack.
        Immediate Reaction    Close burst 1
        Trigger: An adjacent unmarked enemy misses you with an attack.
        Target: The triggering enemy in burst.
        Hit: You push the target a number of squares equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1).

Iaijutsu Specialist [Multiclass]
Prerequisites: Iaijutsu Training, 10th level
Benefit: You can swap one 9th-level or higher daily power you know for the Splitting Draw attack power.

    Splitting Draw            Feat Power
    You draw your blade in an upward arc that, if it slays your foe, slices him in two and showers the battlefield in his blood.
    Daily * Fear, Martial, Weapon
    Free Action        Melee weapon
    Special: You must draw a bastard sword as part of this attack.
    Target: One Creature.
    Attack: Strength vs. AC
    Hit: 2[W] + Strength modifier damage.  If you have combat advantage against the target, the attack deals 4[W] + Strength modifier damage instead.
        At 15th level, increase to 3[W] damage, or 5[W] damage with combat advantage.
        At 25th level, increase to 5[W] damage, or 6[W] damage with combat advantage.
    Miss: Half damage.
    Effect: If you kill the target using this attack, it is split in two and the pieces fall in its square.  Make a secondary attack.
        Free Action        Close burst 10
        Target: Each enemy in burst.
        Hit: You push the target a number of squares equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1).

=========================================================

As you can see, I opted to go "Katana = Bastard Sword" with the base stats.  Because I don't see the katana itself as superior, I found a fighting style I'd heard of (or really - I expanded from 3.0's Oriental Adventures Iajutsu skill), and I created a "weapon mastery" multiclass chain from there (with a bit of an anime flair, for fun).

Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
Easiest thing imo is the bastard sword...its a little bigger than the longsword and requires a bit more training than normal. But then historically you used it as a 2 handed weapon so maybe look along that path
So, the longsword is 1d8 damage, versatile, with +3 to hit. The katana should keep the versatile property, gain the high crit property, but have a tougher time against armor. In other words, only a +2 bonus to hit. So a katana would be a 1d8 damage, high crit, versatile, +2 to hit, weapon.
Just to state my opinion, this is a huge waste of time. The second the players decide which one of your 'tweaks' is better, that will replace whatever the Longsword/Katana is, and there won't be any difference, because everyone will be using the same weapon.

IMAGE(http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/blitzschnell/0a90721d221e50e5755af156c179fe51.jpg?v=90000)
Long swords vs. katanas?

[/thread]

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
TBH, the simplest solution would be to use the scimitar as the katana; a falchion would be a two-handed alternative.



Agreed. When in doubt, reflavor. I tell my players that they do not mean that exact weapon by most of these names. Longsword is 'generic straight blade sword that can be used one or two handed', scimitar is 'generic curved bladed sword that can be used one handed', etc.

Just to state my opinion, this is a huge waste of time. The second the players decide which one of your 'tweaks' is better, that will replace whatever the Longsword/Katana is, and there won't be any difference, because everyone will be using the same weapon.



This.

I have been gaming for 21 years. In all that time, I have found that while you can play with abilities, and powers, and extra bennies via house rules, messing with the weapons never works. Invariably, whatver you make is either crap, or so good no one uses anything else. The developers have a method to their madness on these things.




No one wins in the Edition Wars. The whole hobby loses. Wizards did not lose me as a DDI subscriber with the Online CB, they lost me long before that. And I have let my Herald Level GM Status lapse after 8 years. Wizards lack of support and the Edition Wars Trolls that are poorly moderated just managed to take all the fun out of public events. ~~ KT
Back when I was playing with the idea of a diffrent katana (Back right after AV came out) I did the following:

Katana +3 Versitle High crit Brutal 1 2d4 Sup heavy blade

Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?

Back when I was playing with the idea of a diffrent katana (Back right after AV came out) I did the following:

Katana +3 Versitle High crit Brutal 1 2d4 Sup heavy blade




Thank you for just proving my point. And BTW, the Matrix is not real.

Offering that, even if superior, why would anyone take anything else?

One handed, so can use with sheild or dual weild - check.
Extra damage if used two handed - check.
High Crit - check
Brutal - check
Uses curve damage rather than liner - check.

You really like to live up to your screen-name don't you?
No one wins in the Edition Wars. The whole hobby loses. Wizards did not lose me as a DDI subscriber with the Online CB, they lost me long before that. And I have let my Herald Level GM Status lapse after 8 years. Wizards lack of support and the Edition Wars Trolls that are poorly moderated just managed to take all the fun out of public events. ~~ KT
Back when I was playing with the idea of a diffrent katana (Back right after AV came out) I did the following:

Katana +3 Versitle High crit Brutal 1 2d4 Sup heavy blade




Thank you for just proving my point. And BTW, the Matrix is not real.

Offering that, even if superior, why would anyone take anything else?

One handed, so can use with sheild or dual weild - check.
Extra damage if used two handed - check.
High Crit - check
Brutal - check
Uses curve damage rather than liner - check.

You really like to live up to your screen-name don't you?




um... ok I don't get the matrix thing... but OK...

2d4 Brutal 1 high crit is not that much better then  1d12 brutal 1 high crit... (full blade)... It is just diffrent

Before posting, ask yourself WWWS: What Would Wrecan Say?

Doesn't a katana have slightly better slashing ability? I don't know that it's enough to merit a mechanical advantage in a game, but in the RW they seem better suited to it.


Yes but they are worse at piercing and pretty much suck against actual armor. Unfortunately that is all way above the current D&D level of abstraction. Personally, I just treat them as longswords.


Actually History channel did a comparison and the Katana beat out the long sword even in piercing plate armour.  It was one of the lock and loaded episodes I think but they ran through a series of multiple tests on both swords was very interesting.  Id treat it as a bastard sword.
2d4 Brutal 1 high crit is not that much better then  1d12 brutal 1 high crit... (full blade)... It is just diffrent

For starters, a Full Blade is a 2H weapon, which are supposed to be more damaging than their 1H counterparts. Your 1H weapon averages 6 damage a hit, which is just 0.5 behind a 2H weapon. In comparison, a standard longsword would average 4.5 damage a hit, which is 2 behind its 2H counterpart. You've also stacked a ton of properties onto one weapon, which can have a number of balance issues. Additionally, for all that goodness you don't even miss out on being able to equip a shield.

I saw that episode. I don't recall the name of the show, but they'd take two warrior types and compare them side by side regardless of the era they were from. While I found gobs of flaws in their tests (and a distinct bias to whatever was popular at the time*), the katana vs longsword was pretty empirical. It had to do with the distribution of the force of impact. On a katana, the curved blade allows the force to be focused more on one point, while a longsword generally spread it out over a greater area, reducing it's effect.




*Pirate vs. Knight. They had just released "Pirates of the Caribbean" (sp?) and everybody was gaga over pirates. So, when the knight delivered a great hit to the pirate's leg, hitting where the femoral artery would be, Mister Pirate hops back up and shoots his flintlock at the knight, winging his shoulder. Well, that was one weak knight, because the shot killed him. We stopped watching the show because we could tell who was going to win based on popular trends.

Probably Deadliest Warrior, which is nothing more than a televised version of 'Who'd win in a fight, Goku or Superman?'.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
OMG A Katana thread?!


For starters, in 3e they almost always refer to the katana as a bastard sword. Mainly because katanas are two-handed weapons that can be used one-handed with additional training (like taking Exotic Weapon Proficiency).

And in the strictest sense, the word katana refers to any kind of one-sided blade, so the term may not be apprporiate.
I always thought of the katana as a two-handed shortsword. I think we all agree, it gets hi-crit.
I always thought of the katana as a two-handed shortsword. I think we all agree, it gets hi-crit.



No, we don't.  My stance remains 'it's a longsword that looks different'.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I always thought of the katana as a two-handed shortsword. I think we all agree, it gets hi-crit.



No, we don't.  My stance remains 'it's a longsword that looks different'.



[mock outrage] Bastard Sword!  Don't be a fool, man! [/mock outrage]

Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
I always thought of the katana as a two-handed shortsword. I think we all agree, it gets hi-crit.



No, we don't.  My stance remains 'it's a longsword that looks different'.



To paraphrase a demotivator, it's a bastard sword from Japan with a great PR campaign. 

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
Personally I think a Katana qualifies as a 2d4 weapon.
That would essentially simulate a 1d8 weapon with brutal 1.
It's a tough call whether it'd be a versatile or two-handed weapon, though if it's two-handed then high-crit would seem appropriately thematic.
Also the proficiency bonus might balance it out with the versatile version being +3 and the two-handed type being +2.

Hmmm....tricky thing to make a Katana unique it is.

Katanas are Underpowered in 4th Edition


That's it. I'm sick of all this "bastard sword" bull*** that's going on in the 4th Edition system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.


I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine katana in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana.


Japanese smiths spend years working on a single katana and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.


Katanas are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a longsword can cut through, a katana can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.


Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined samurai and their katanas of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the katanas first because their killing power was feared and respected.


So what am I saying? Katanas are simply the best sword that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the 4th Edition system. Here is the stat block I propose for katanas:


(Superior One-Handed Melee Weapon)
2d10 base damage
+5 proficiency bonus
Heavy blade, light blade (counts as both)
High crit, off-hand, reach, versatile


Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of katanas in real life, don't you think?


tl;dr = Katanas need to do more damage in 4th Edition, see my new stat block.

If you want to keep it balanced then try and keep it within the same constraints as normal weapons and their upgrades.

The base heavy blade is +2 proficiency 1d8 damage. Each martial weapon adds one modifier to flavor it.

+1 to hit = longsword +3 prof 1d8 dmg
+1 dmg die = Broadsword +2 prof 1d10 dmg
+1 crit die = Scimitar +2 prof 1d8 dmg + high crit 

Upgrading to superior effectively adds 1 more modifier so...

+1 to hit on broadsword = Bastard sword
+1 dmg die on longsword = Bastard sword 

So if you want a Superior sword without unbalancing it your main choices would be something like

Modify Scimitar with +1 to hit for a +3 prof.
Modify Longsword with brutal quality for Brutal 1
Modify Broadsword with Brutal quality for Brutal 1 
Modify Broadsword with High crit property. 

All these are about the same as any superior weapon out there already, just with different flavor. I am sure some math people will point out some of these combinations are more powerful than existing combinations but they are close enough not to totally disrupt a homebrew so that everyone will end up using the exact same weapon. You might even consider different combinations might be the result of different swordmakers each using the Katana Superior weapon proficiency but may have different stats based on if the swordmaker is know for a superior edge (+3 to hit low dmg) or for a special curve to the blade (High Crit) or for folding the sword ten thousand times (brutal 1).
Black: "I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a  knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash."

Well, simple chain 'mail' armor stops a katana swing cold. Its shocking to see how effective the chain armor is.

Also, its not fair to compare a 'masterwork' katana instead of a 'normal' katana. (Even tho most katana werent normal. High quality metal was rare in Japan, and if a metal katana existed at all, its metal was probably highly refined and worked.)

Instead of 1d8 longsword base damage, the katana should probably use 1d6 shortsword damage. But the versatility would add extra damage when two-handed, and the high crit can do extensive damage to represent sharp slashing. As such it might be a reasonable Martial weapon, but as a Superior weapon could do a bit more. And of course, a 'masterwork' katana could have more impressive properties.
Black: "I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a  knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash."

Well, simple chain 'mail' armor stops a katana swing cold. Its shocking to see how effective the chain armor is.

Also, its not fair to compare a 'masterwork' katana with a 'normal' katana. (Even tho most katana werent normal. High quality metal was rare in Japan, and if a metal katana existed at all, its metal was probably highly refined and worked.)



You're implying this wasn't done in a mocking tone towards japanophiles that thing Katana's were more than just a curved longsword. Of course, I'll add sarcasm tags next time. :P
Er, in WWII they target the ones with a katana not because they have "destructive power", but because the ones with swords are, y'know, commanders.

And Medieval Europeans never tried conquering Japan because it's an island very far away from them. With limited resources. Not really ideal for conquering, no?

Also, about the armor thing? No, no it won't. This is why the sword evolution in Europe turned swords into piercing ones (making thick armor less effective). The katana is mostly a slashing weapon: great if most of your opponents are not wearing armor that's made from metal, but not if you're fighting an army of medieval knights.

I admit the most katana are more masterfully done than most European swords, but it's also partly because materials to make a sword is rare in Japan (unlike in europe where there is plenty), therefore they need to perfect what they have.
The campaign setting I am currently in the process of designing takes place in the gap between a western region based on Europe and an Eastern region. Differences in weaponry is going to be a big theme here. How would you suggest I do it?

I was thinking of making the katana a +3/1d8, versatile/high crit, and the longsword a +3/1d8, versatile/brutal. Do you think this would be a good idea?

One is Japanese the other European...hope that helps 8).
To paraphrase a demotivator, it's a bastard sword from Japan with a great PR campaign. 



To be fair, part of that PR campaign is that iron was really rare in Japan, which encouraged them to be high quality (if the raw material costs too much to mass produce the item, then you may as well pay for a very skilled artisan) and have ownership restricted to wealthy (therefore well-fed and well-trained) people.

A strong warrior with a few feet of steel and the training to use it may as well be a superhero to a nutritionally challenged serf who's best weapon is a garden tool.

I'm kind of digging representing any exceptionally sharp version of a sword with the brutal propery (since it's sharper it cuts deeper more reliably). You'd have to step down the damage die just for balance sake. Call it "Japanese" or "Damascus" or "High-carbon steel" or just plain "Sharp" it's all the same property.

i.e.
Longsword 1d8 versatile -> Damascus Longsword (or Katana) 1d6 brutal 1 versatile heavy blade
Greatsword 1d10 2h -> Damascus Greatsword (or naginata) 1d8 brutal 1 heavy blade
Shortsword 1d6 light blade -> Damascus Shortsword (or wakazashi) 1d4 brutal 1 light blade

What I like is that either version has the same average damage (which helps keep things balanced) but makes a nice tradeoff: The "sharp" blade has more reliable damage (make deeper cuts more easily) but a lower damage die (the material that can hold such a sharp edge is rarer, so the blade is lighter weight).
Black: "Of course, I'll add sarcasm tags next time."

LOL! Yes, please.



Cmon, this is the internet. You know someone somewhere means that seriously!

Katanas are Underpowered in 4th Edition


That's it. I'm sick of all this "bastard sword" bull*** that's going on in the 4th Edition system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.


I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine katana in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana.


Japanese smiths spend years working on a single katana and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.


Katanas are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a longsword can cut through, a katana can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.


Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined samurai and their katanas of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the katanas first because their killing power was feared and respected.


So what am I saying? Katanas are simply the best sword that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the 4th Edition system. Here is the stat block I propose for katanas:


(Superior One-Handed Melee Weapon)
2d10 base damage
+5 proficiency bonus
Heavy blade, light blade (counts as both)
High crit, off-hand, reach, versatile


Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of katanas in real life, don't you think?


tl;dr = Katanas need to do more damage in 4th Edition, see my new stat block.




The Katana is one of the finest examples of the art of swordcraft ever however I think you are underestimating European weapons. Either weapon in the hands of a trained swordsman would certainly kill it's opponent with a well placed strike. 

Having a better made weapon does not immediately translate to more damage. A well made longsword could cut through an opponent all day long much like a Katana. Human beings in real life are much less resilient than D&D characters if you use a literal translation of HP. Much of the Katana's strength is in it's wielder. The Samurai trained religeously in the art of Bushido and were a force to be reckoned with on the battle field but most commonly were pitted against common soldiers who used farm implements in battle or weapons derived from them and often had little to no formal training aside from the sound advise of "Put the pointy end in the other guy". 

I have great respect for the Katana and the rich history it represents but you must consider it in the context of it's enemy which wore relatively light armor and so did not require the forced momentm that the europeans needed in order to penetrate heavy armor.

European weapons on the other hand favored stabbing with a reinforced tip to break through a thicker defense. The martial arts that the European swordsman studied were not that dissimilar from Asian martial arts with a focus on balance and control of motion. The reason this is not as well known is the lack of practicing swordsmen who trained in the classic styles. The Japanese have a deep cultural link to their martial arts however the European style was one of practicality and when the English Longbow and soon after the Crossbow made fighting styles obsolete, the swordsmen picked up bows and crossbows of their own and used the best weapon available at the time. The European martial arts are all but lost now, remaining mainly in manuscript but current day practitioners would very likely surprise you with the similarities to traditional Japanese swordplay albeit with perhaps a more utilitary appearance.

I would compare it much like Akido and Krav Maga, Both get the job done but one is more fluid and the other is a more compact form of ass kicking.

P.S. I missed the sarcasm because I know people who actually think that way. 
Katana is to sword as Chinese is to Language.  Despite having the same name over the course of it's history the actual sword design altered between horsemans sword, showy duelists weapon, and battlefield backup weapon.  The only time the swords were even considered a primary weapon was off the field, when no one was wearing armor.  And none of them are particularly superior to Arabic Blades of the same time period.  In fact they're a little worse due to inferior steel quality.

Of course this will probably be ignored once again.  Just as the people who point out the mechanical flaws will be ignored.
Well... At least we got custom avatars....