5/05/2010 BoaB: "Training Sages"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Building on a Budget, which goes live Wednesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
I may be the type of person that would wedge this into Tap-out.  Martial Coup for Infinate soldiers doesn't seem like a bad option.  Just drop out the more expensive cards from UW tap-out and replace them with this. I might also be the type to throw this into a merfolk levelers deck. I'm also prety fond of setting up this combo to hardcast Emrakul.
Similar line of thought, throwing it all into the GY then Open the Vaults seems a lot more stable, also never needing to cast the icky icky Gem until you need it.
Agreed.  The win-con could be decent with better support cards.  I don't think Day of Judgement is too expensive for BoaB and it would have helped you in all the matches.  Or, you could go Esper artifact with Open the Vaults. 
Might be less stable, but my finisher would be Spawnsire of Ulamog, empty my sideboard FTW!
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Might be less stable, but my finisher would be Spawnsire of Ulamog, empty my sideboard FTW!



I was thinking along the same lines except I was thinking with that much mana why not just cast all three Legendary Eldrazi at the same time.
Rod of Ruin would work since the damage could only be redirected in worthless amounts, the damage could be made unpreventable with Unstable Footing to act like a multi-target banefire...or just use Comet Storm and the footing.  I prefer Rod of Ruin for two reasons: it's cheaper than banefire, and because it's hilarious to watch an opponent's expression as they take a million damage from a rod of ruin.  The only things I can think to worry about are Hedron-Field Purists, Guardian Seraph, and Safe Passage but those are easily dealt with by the footing.
I love the deck concept, but ... all you're getting from your black in this deck is spot removal.  Since this is your only defense and you're not that fast, you're predictably getting overrun by creatures.

You'd be much better off using these slots for mass removal (Day of Judgment?), or for improving your combo's speed.  Say, drop the black and add green for Birds of Paradise, Overgrown Battlement, and Fog.  Or if you want to keep the black, look for aggressive discard spells and ways to turn life into drawing cards (traditional black combo stuff).  Lots of ways to go here.

"The deck didn't fare very well against tournament-level decks, but I still feel like this is a fun and exciting combo for your casual games."


I appreciate your honesty.  This has a lot of potential.


Thanks for sharing:-)


(PS:  I believe every deck needs mass creature removal.)

This deck is probably far worse after sideboarding since most people have stuff like oblivion ring and artifact destruction in the sideboard which is why even if you tried "fixing" it or upgraded it with less budget spells you still wouldn't have much of a chance in a tournament. open the vaults would probably be the best way to preserve your combo until you "go off".
Don't be too smart to have fun
I do not like the banefire win-con AT ALL.
True, it cannot be countered and also true it is an auto-win if it hits...
however, it CAN be the target of Swerve or Ricochet Trap and redirected at your face which would suck. A friend of mine is working on this deck and he uses Obelisk of Alara as his win condition. Since you can produce any color mana with Khalni Gem, you can gain a million life or just burn for 3,000,000 to the face in 3 damage intervals. this damage can't be swerved or ricochet trapped. Obelisk can be countered, but his deck anyway runs enough countermagic to deal with that.
This deck seems like it may benefit from running white instead of black, or possibly even both since you get to use a tri-land to help with mana. White gives you day of judgment, path to exile, oust and wall of omens which would help with creatures more than smother and agony warp would.
I do not like the banefire win-con AT ALL.
True, it cannot be countered and also true it is an auto-win if it hits...
however, it CAN be the target of Swerve or Ricochet Trap and redirected at your face which would suck. A friend of mine is working on this deck and he uses Obelisk of Alara as his win condition. Since you can produce any color mana with Khalni Gem, you can gain a million life or just burn for 3,000,000 to the face in 3 damage intervals. this damage can't be swerved or ricochet trapped. Obelisk can be countered, but his deck anyway runs enough countermagic to deal with that.



I love that you're thinking budget options here however I don't understand the difference between countering a counterspell and countering a swerve effect. I guess Jacob said it best though you're really not worried about counterspell when you cast banefire because if they had one they'd counter your mind spring before it came to that.
Don't be too smart to have fun
I tried this combo last Friday, albeit with UW instead of BU, and it was very fun. I used Ardent Plea to make sure I hit the Training Grounds, so I dropped Mind Spring and used Scepter of Insight for card draw and dropped the Banefire for Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
It was very fun and I went off several times...it isn't really needed...but chaining Emrakul is very fun (I put 2 of them in)

I'm not too sure what to do to make it better, maybe use Everflowing Chalice and Etherium Sculptor to make it faster...but then you are more vulnerable...I'm cranking away on it along with other things.

The Scepter is great synnergy and I was never disappointed with it
It's crap.  combo pieces suck anyway, much less to make infinite mana to use with your onw win condition.  I have enjoyed several of your decks recently, but this is thrown together combo trash.  No combo, no win, no fun
obviously magic isnt so easy a caveman can do it as evidenced by you neanderthal attempt at forming a coherent post kennyt.  the deck looks fun, if combo is not your thing its ok.  we understand that "kennyt smash!" may be the only thing you can effectively communicate during a match.  but dont blast the deck simply because you have too limited of an IQ to ever play the deck.
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
I get easier infinite mana out of Harabaz Druid + Crab Umbra + any 3 other Allies.
 
@forty2j: that combo doesn't work because Crab Umbra doesn't give the ability to the creature and training grounds only reduces the cost of creature's abilities, not enchantment's abilities.

You'd want something like Horseshoe Crab + Utopia Vow, which is sadly not in standard.
@forty2j: that combo doesn't work because Crab Umbra doesn't give the ability to the creature and training grounds only reduces the cost of creature's abilities, not enchantment's abilities.

You'd want something like Horseshoe Crab + Utopia Vow, which is sadly not in standard.



forty2j's combo doesn't need Training Ground, as long as he has 3 other allies in play.
Inquisition of Kozilek instead of Agony Warp would have been fantastic in every matchup.  It nails Maelstrom Pulse, Blightning, Path, O-Ring, counterspells and worst case you take an aggressive creature out of their hand.  I mean who doesn't play something threatening that costs 3 or less?

Duress is also fantastic nailing most problem cards.  I'm not sure if it's better than Smother maindeck, but it is very good at dealing with problem spells.

Something else to consider is Consuming Vapors could become Consume the Meek instead.  It's a conditional Wrath, but it doesn't kill your Filigree Sages and mostly kills what you need it to kill.

I hadn't thought about Obelisk as a win condition, but that is really sweet.  You're right it's probably better than Banefire.  Even if the opponent path's your first sage you are floating a million mana and just cast a new sage to assemble that combo again.
No, no, no! (almost) everyone hates Razor Boomerang, right?
Finally a way to use it! Produce infinite blue mana first, then spend 3 of that mana to play Razor Boomerang. Use 2 to equip it to Filligree Sages. Tap the sages and unattach+return-to-hand your boomeran and deal 1 damage. Use one blue mana of your infinite mana to untap sages, and reapeat the proces.
Razor Boomerang has found a home!
(against one person it's an even greater psychological warfare. He HATES Razor Boomerang (tears them apart). How awesome would it be to see someone be beaten by it...)
*Mhuahahahahahahh!!!*
No, no, no! (almost) everyone hates Razor Boomerang, right?
Finally a way to use it! Produce infinite blue mana first, then spend 3 of that mana to play Razor Boomerang. Use 2 to equip it to Filligree Sages. Tap the sages and unattach+return-to-hand your boomeran and deal 1 damage. Use one blue mana of your infinite mana to untap sages, and reapeat the proces.
Razor Boomerang has found a home!
(against one person it's an even greater psychological warfare. He HATES Razor Boomerang (tears them apart). How awesome would it be to see someone be beaten by it...)
*Mhuahahahahahahh!!!*



Good luck in that feat. The big downside to razor boomerang (other than the fact that it is simply worse than the other cards mentioned like rod of ruin, banefire, or obelisk of alara) is that your sages get exposed to sorcery speed removal. That is something these other win cons completely avoid. I think you a sick man for wanting to beat someone with the card that he rips up whenever he sees. That is just wrong dude. Don't do that to that guy's psyche.
Don't be too smart to have fun
that combo doesn't work because Crab Umbra doesn't give the ability to the creature

Huh? Doesn't that just mean that you have to enchant Harabaz Druid itself with Crab Umbra instead of some other creature?

You tap Harabaz Druid, and get three mana if you have enough Allies. Then you use two of these mana to untap it.

Admittedly, it will only give you infinite blue mana, and not infinite mana of any other color.

"The deck didn't fare very well against tournament-level decks, but I still feel like this is a fun and exciting combo for your casual games."

I appreciate your honesty.


Oh, so this is why there weren't any posts in this thread to the effect of: "Oh, noes! Magic is broken! Combo summer is coming!"

Not long ago, I posted in the You Make the Card forum, after reading the "Decks with Horsepower" article

www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.a...

on historic infinite mana combos, a version of Worldgorger Dragon that was "fixed" by giving it a Kozilek-class mana cost. I figured that even infinite mana might be harmless if it was expensive enough.

Apparently I was too timid.

Coming up with weird ideas to make everyone happy since 2008!

 

I have now started a blog as an appropriate place to put my crazy ideas.

obviously magic isnt so easy a caveman can do it as evidenced by you neanderthal attempt at forming a coherent post kennyt.  the deck looks fun, if combo is not your thing its ok.  we understand that "kennyt smash!" may be the only thing you can effectively communicate during a match.  but dont blast the deck simply because you have too limited of an IQ to ever play the deck.



No need to be a jerk.  I did not like the deck, my opinion, yours differs from mine.  You can have a differing opinion without making an ass of yourself.
my bad; i misread and thought he intended a crab umbra + training grounds nonbo.

nice idea, forty2j

You tap Harabaz Druid, and get three mana if you have enough Allies. Then you use two of these mana to untap it.

Admittedly, it will only give you infinite blue mana, and not infinite mana of any other color.



Actually: with 4 allies, you tap the druid, and get 4 blue. Use 3 to untap it (crab's ability is 3). Repeat as necessary, netting a blue each time. Then, tap for the color you want, and use the blue you've accumulated to untap. Repeat as necessary. If you run out of blue, tap for more blue. It's a multi-step process, but it is infinite in any combination of colors.

I came across this quite by accident; I was just looking for the cheapest Totem Armor to slap on the druid, as he tends to die to removal quite often.
 
No, no, no! (almost) everyone hates Razor Boomerang, right?
Finally a way to use it! Produce infinite blue mana first, then spend 3 of that mana to play Razor Boomerang. Use 2 to equip it to Filligree Sages. Tap the sages and unattach+return-to-hand your boomeran and deal 1 damage. Use one blue mana of your infinite mana to untap sages, and reapeat the proces.
Razor Boomerang has found a home!
(against one person it's an even greater psychological warfare. He HATES Razor Boomerang (tears them apart). How awesome would it be to see someone be beaten by it...)
*Mhuahahahahahahh!!!*



Good luck in that feat. The big downside to razor boomerang (other than the fact that it is simply worse than the other cards mentioned like rod of ruin, banefire, or obelisk of alara) is that your sages get exposed to sorcery speed removal. That is something these other win cons completely avoid. I think you a sick man for wanting to beat someone with the card that he rips up whenever he sees. That is just wrong dude. Don't do that to that guy's psyche.



I guess you're right. Nobody deserves to be driven that insane...
And yes, the combo is more vulnerable. But it's also more fun. At least, I thought it was fun, because people don't like Razor Boomerang. ^^
  Martial Coup for Infinate soldiers doesn't seem like a bad option.  Just drop out the more expensive cards from UW tap-out and replace them with this. I might also be the type to throw this into a merfolk levelers deck. I'm also prety fond of setting up this combo to hardcast Emrakul.



Might be less stable, but my finisher would be Spawnsire of Ulamog, empty my sideboard FTW!



Creatures that you want to cast with this combo don't belong. Banefire outright kills, where creatures can be killed, countered, or exiled.
Also, summoning sickness exists. Creatures for this combo simply don't belong.

Rod of Ruin would work.



I guess. It's more stable than having a creature, but it's no Banefire.

Orzhova Witness

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58086748 wrote:
58335208 wrote:
Disregard women acquire chase rares.
There are a lot of dudes for whom this is not optional.
97820278 wrote:
144532521 wrote:
How;s a 2 drop 1/2, Flying broken? What am I missing?
You're missing it because *turns Storm Crows sideways* all your base are belong to Chuck Norris and every other overused meme ever.
A very neat deck, Jacob. I've been likeing your decks a lot more recently. I would say you have improved after time and this is great. Congratulations.
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I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
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56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!
I was thinking why not make an Eldrazi deck if you have infinite mana? Seems pretty obvious.




lol, wasnt it you kenyt who said

"It's crap.  combo pieces suck anyway, much less to make infinite mana to use with your onw win condition.  I have enjoyed several of your decks recently, but this is thrown together combo trash.  No combo, no win, no fun"

i believe calling this trash and saying it sucks, which btw are opinions which you did not support with facts, makes you sound like more of an ass. 
Hey what would we think about going Blue Red instead of Blue Black? UR would give us Flame Slash Lightning Bolt which take out most of Smother/Agony warp Range, and it COULD give us Chandra/ Burn Alt Win con. (Comet Storm and Earthquake is nice.) 

UB would give u Oust (3 life is negligible with infinite damage) Repel the Darkness (buys a turn with cantrip) Wall of Omens, Day of Judgement, Path to Exile

Reality Spasm
Sea Gate Oracle
Are cards i THINK should be in here somehow? I cant quite figure it out but my gut tells me that Reality Spasm can be broken here, and the Oracle i think would be a good "get there" guy.

I was also thinking about a build that really capitalized on Training Grounds by having creatures with Activated abilities, so heres a list (by color) or creatures it might be good with. Hopefully something will click with someone.

Echo Mage -this guy just HAD to be on the list, i dont think he'll be in anything but eh. Twincast is really good.
Sphinx of Magosi- OK this guy is pretty sweet as is (albeit expensive) but U draw and pump, thats incredible. BUT he still comes out on 6.
Merfolk Seastalkers-This is interesting, with training grounds he says U: tap target creature without flying. Seems good for stalling. Kinda begs spot removal and costs 4 though.
Djinn of Wishes-This is the blue guy im most excited about. IM not sure if theres a way to exile/return him in the same turn or something, but UU play the top card of your library for free is RIDICULOUS with the cards in this Meta. Jace 2.0/ ponder= UU Emrakul? This could lead to some interesting things ESPECIALLY cause infinite mana also= Emrakul.

The black cards are less combo more beatdown.
Cemetery Reaper- B: make a 3/3 Zombie. Seems good. 
Gull Draz Assassin- Makes level up twice as fast, still kind of a commitment to someone who can die.
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief- I dont like her but i figured id throw her in.
Nikana Cutthroat- Again, levels quick, Firststrike, Deathtouch. Good beater.
Zof Shade- B:+2/+2 could be really sweet. I kinda like this guy. No good without the grounds though.

Siege-Gang Commander- this really just makes it easier to Throw goblins, but Siege is great anyway so no need to justify him.
Brimstone Mage- Again, i think this is too much of a commitment, but it makes leveling easier.

Ant Queen- G: 1/1 ant. UG beatdown could be kinda good with this.
Frontier Guide- Don't really like him at all, but rampent growth everyturn seems good. Kinda crappy over all though.
Beastbreaker of Bala Ged- This guy is good either way, really good when level up is G. 
Kazandu Tuskcaller- Umm kind of a commitment again, scary to play a guy this small, but he makes elephants and levels up.

Ethersworn Adjudicator- This guy might be interesting, makes both abilities cheaper, requires 3 colors to be good though.
Apocolypse Hydra- this is the same thing as siege-gang, only the Hydra is less good. Kinda functions like Banefire though with infinite mana.
Wandering Goblins?- This is interesting, kinda the same thing as Zof shade, depending how many times of basics you run this could be [1]: +3/+0 or +5/+0 or +2/+0   all are good really, but are the good enough? and its only good in an aggressive beatdown mode.
 
just some thoughts, can i get some imput?
I think an Earthquake for infinity is a really bad idea as it will kill you too. Sea Gate Oracle might not be a bad idea as it would buy time and help find the combo but there are already twelve draw/reorder/shuffle cards in the deck.  I don't see much use for Reality Spasm as it isn't going to win the game outright. The creatures you suggest pale to infinite damage or if we're talking about Obelisk of Alara as a kill condition, the ability to do infinite damage, gain infinite life, kill every last creature on the board (except those with shroud), and make as many infinity/infinity creatures as is desirable (infinity damage ftw mainly).  Putting most of those cards in this deck just makes it that much harder to draw the combo and doesn't really help this deck.  As has been said before in this thread, all those creatures would have summoning sickness which gives your opponent time to wrath/kill you if you're trying to win through aggro.  Not to mention the fact that you might be drawing on an empty deck and losing next turn depending on how many cards you drew with Mindspring.  The removal suite/defense plan is the only thing that might need fiddling with here.

Now, if you're talking about a deck that takes advantage of Training Grounds my suggestion is head over to the deck help section and look around for ideas there.

 I like the idea of a UU Emrakul but I don't have a problem with 2UU Emrakul either and in order to play the Djinn you'll already have that.  The gold star here goes to Liliana Vess who gets both the Djinn and Emrakul where they need to be.  So some cards for that deck would be Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, Djinn of Wishes, Liliana Vess.  Some other things that might help are some draw spells and Diabolic Tutor to go find Lili.  Pack in some kill spells, maybe some walls and even your levelers, Duress, and you've got yourself the makings of a 2UU Emrakul as early as turn six.
I love how the Magic community is so quick to redesign and improve a deck idea and I agree that many ideas here are better, IMHO. However, I think we should recognize Jacob for bringing the infinite mana combo to the table.  None of these ideas would be here if he hadn't made a deck with it, whether or not we agree with his card choices.

Anyway, one thing we can add is Lavaclaw Reaches as a win condition.  It is vulnerable to removal, worse than Banefire, Obelisk of Alara, etc. BUT it is a win condition that doesn't cost us a spell slot, so it's strictly better than a swamp for our deck.  I think they go for around 2-4 dollars.  Also, along the lines of embarrassing wins conditions i.e. Razor Boomerang, I think being killed by a Thoughtcutter Agent qualifies. (I know it's not a good win condition, the idea is to grief our opponent here)
I love how the Magic community is so quick to redesign and improve a deck idea and I agree that many ideas here are better, IMHO. However, I think we should recognize Jacob for bringing the infinite mana combo to the table.  None of these ideas would be here if he hadn't made a deck with it, whether or not we agree with his card choices.

Anyway, one thing we can add is Lavaclaw Reaches as a win condition.  It is vulnerable to removal, worse than Banefire, Obelisk of Alara, etc. BUT it is a win condition that doesn't cost us a spell slot, so it's strictly better than a swamp for our deck.  I think they go for around 2-4 dollars.  Also, along the lines of embarrassing wins conditions i.e. Razor Boomerang, I think being killed by a Thoughtcutter Agent qualifies. (I know it's not a good win condition, the idea is to grief our opponent here)


Do you understand that this is an infinite combo that generates infinite mana at once in a single turn? Why and how would you grind that win to a bunch of turns?
OMG click HERE! OMG! How to autocard and use decklist format
--->
For autocarding, write [c][/c] with the name of the card inside it. [c]Island[/c] = Island For linking a card to Gatherer without writting the name of said card for readers, use the autocard brackets together with and equal sign and right the name of the real card. Then put the message you want inside the tags, like you would do with autocarding. Like this: [c=Curse of the Cabal]Captain Never-resolves[/c] = Captain Never-resolves For using the decklist format, follow this: [deck] 4* Terramorphic Expanse 4* Evolving Wilds ... [/deck] It equals:
Real signature, Sblocked for space:
57817638 wrote:
I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
Listen to my SoundCloud while you read my signature. The Island, Come And See, The Landlord's Daughter, You'll Not Feel The Drowning - The Decemberists by vimschy IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/rkvR.gif)IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/L3es.gif) IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/m71H.gif)
Quotes
56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!
Where am I winning through multiple turns?  I'm guessing you're looking at the Thoughtcutter Agent and have forgotten that is an artifact as well, allowing the Filigree Sages to untap it repeatedly and to activate it multiple times with infinite mana in one turn.

Outside of that, I found another card that might be worth mentioning, a total corner-case too.  Spell Contortion!  A pretty bad counterspell becomes an instant Mind Spring with infinite mana, allowing you to draw your library on your opponent's turn and/or counter a spell.  It does require a spell to target, but you still get to draw cards if your opponent pays the mana and you can always target your own spell with infinite mana.  I don't think Spell Contortion will fit anywhere else, so try it here! Laughing
Where am I winning through multiple turns?  I'm guessing you're looking at the Thoughtcutter Agent and have forgotten that is an artifact as well, allowing the Filigree Sages to untap it repeatedly and to activate it multiple times with infinite mana in one turn.

Outside of that, I found another card that might be worth mentioning, a total corner-case too.  Spell Contortion!  A pretty bad counterspell becomes an instant Mind Spring with infinite mana, allowing you to draw your library on your opponent's turn and/or counter a spell.  It does require a spell to target, but you still get to draw cards if your opponent pays the mana and you can always target your own spell with infinite mana.  I don't think Spell Contortion will fit anywhere else, so try it here!



I don't think it would improve the deck however, I'd probably include it in anything I built just because it's cool and I actually own them instead of consuming vapors or some of the other rares mentioned. In fact I think I only have 1 or 2 mind spring and I was looking for more ways to get that effect (casually at my kitchen table of course)
Don't be too smart to have fun
Where am I winning through multiple turns?  I'm guessing you're looking at the Thoughtcutter Agent and have forgotten that is an artifact as well, allowing the Filigree Sages to untap it repeatedly and to activate it multiple times with infinite mana in one turn.


When you suggested Lavaclaw Reaches, that while can be pumped to 999.999 power, can just be chumpblocked over and over.
OMG click HERE! OMG! How to autocard and use decklist format
--->
For autocarding, write [c][/c] with the name of the card inside it. [c]Island[/c] = Island For linking a card to Gatherer without writting the name of said card for readers, use the autocard brackets together with and equal sign and right the name of the real card. Then put the message you want inside the tags, like you would do with autocarding. Like this: [c=Curse of the Cabal]Captain Never-resolves[/c] = Captain Never-resolves For using the decklist format, follow this: [deck] 4* Terramorphic Expanse 4* Evolving Wilds ... [/deck] It equals:
Real signature, Sblocked for space:
57817638 wrote:
I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
Listen to my SoundCloud while you read my signature. The Island, Come And See, The Landlord's Daughter, You'll Not Feel The Drowning - The Decemberists by vimschy IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/rkvR.gif)IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/L3es.gif) IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/m71H.gif)
Quotes
56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!
I was thinking why not make an Eldrazi deck if you have infinite mana? Seems pretty obvious.



Not really. Due to Summoning Sickness, and the existence of counter magic, playing creatures isn't optimal.
When that many Eldraze creatures are on the table, your opponent is likely to counter the critical ones, wrath, or earthquake for as much as possible.

There's exactly one answer to Banefire, and it's just not a popular enough card to really worry about someone having (Mindbreak Trap).

So there's virtually nothing that can be done about a lethal Banefire, while there are (albeit desperate) answers to a few giant monsters.

Orzhova Witness

Restarting Quotes Block
58086748 wrote:
58335208 wrote:
Disregard women acquire chase rares.
There are a lot of dudes for whom this is not optional.
97820278 wrote:
144532521 wrote:
How;s a 2 drop 1/2, Flying broken? What am I missing?
You're missing it because *turns Storm Crows sideways* all your base are belong to Chuck Norris and every other overused meme ever.


Not really. Due to Summoning Sickness, and the existence of counter magic, playing creatures isn't optimal.
When that many Eldraze creatures are on the table, your opponent is likely to counter the critical ones, wrath, or earthquake for as much as possible.

There's exactly one answer to Banefire, and it's just not a popular enough card to really worry about someone having (Mindbreak Trap).

So there's virtually nothing that can be done about a lethal Banefire, while there are (albeit desperate) answers to a few giant monsters.



I can name two other answers to banefire...and both are seeing play in budget decks and even some tier 1.5 or tier 2 decks.
Swerve
Ricochet Trap
Neither COUNTER banefire, so they can target your banefire. What's more, they can throw it right back in your face and kill you with your own combo. That is why I am advocating for Obelisk of Alara as the win-con for the deck. Its damage can't be countered, and as long as it sticks when cast its pretty well game over.

you are correct in stating the only "counter" that can touch banefire is Mindbreak Trap, but you did forget that i can redirect your spell. Ever been on the wrong end of a swerved Mind Sludge? I watched a Runeflare combo deck obliterate a Vamps deck because he swerved the Sludge back and forced the Vamp player to discard his entire hand. the runeflare guy won two turns later.

Also the fact that you're only going to be playing 1-2x of the "kill" spell means that most of the time you're finding banefire via mind spring which can be countered. The uncounterability of banefire is only useful if you don't have to draw into it. I think that some of these other spells are nearly as strong an option as banefire and should probably be sided in if the opponent is playing swerve.
Don't be too smart to have fun
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