Rolling Echo: Do I have this right?

23 posts / 0 new
Last post
If I hit one target with this, I make the same burst attack the next round. I am assuming no matter how many hits, I get one attack the next round. If I hit with the successive attack, I would attack again until I eventually miss or have no targets?

It seems awfully powerful.


Rolling Echo

Encounter    Arcane, Implement, Thunder
Standard Action      Close burst 2


Target: Each enemy in burst


Attack: Charisma vs. Fortitude


Hit: 2d6 + Charisma modifier thunder damage, and you push the target 1 square. Before you take any actions during your next turn, you can repeat the attack as a free action.


sounds right.  It's strong potentially, but you will probably miss (targets fortitude) or run out of targets (burst 2 isn't all that wide a net) within the next two turns.  Plus at most its just an extra 2d6 and one square of forced movement.  Not really OP.
Seems pretty strong to me.  It's not just 2d6, it's 2d6+Cha+Enhancement+awesome thunder feats + etc.  Plus whatever push-boosting abilities you have. 

And it's not too hard for a bard to hang out in melee range.

As an encounter, it seems like it could become pretty dominant in tighter dungeons on a melee-oriented bard. Especially if you can manage to get surrounded first and follow the first burst with a move.

I took the PP for the flavor but, am relizing it is pretty solid.

Seems pretty strong to me.  It's not just 2d6, it's 2d6+Cha+Enhancement+awesome thunder feats + etc.  Plus whatever push-boosting abilities you have. 

And it's not too hard for a bard to hang out in melee range.

I tricked out my dragon breath the same way.  Still doesn't seem OP.
But do you get to keep repeating your dragon breath every turn until you miss?
If I hit one target with this, I make the same burst attack the next round. I am assuming no matter how many hits, I get one attack the next round. If I hit with the successive attack, I would attack again until I eventually miss or have no targets?

It seems awfully powerful.




It does seem powerful, but remember that effects are known and this happens at the start of your turn.

i.e. opponents can simply move away from you and then you won't have any targets and so nothing happens. There may be some consequences for them moving away, but that does really limit the effectiveness(if you know you'll take mark damage or you'll potentially take this damage and cause problems for yourself the turn thereafter, it makes sense to take the mark damage and move on)
An adjacent enemy would probably take an opportunity attack getting out of range, though.

What you need to do is trick out a fighter with this power
Resounding Thunder+Enlarge Spell make this a yummy ally friendly burst 4, letting you get really nice board coverage. As far as effects being known, the targets only know effects on THEM. The ability to repeat the attack is an effect on YOU, so the targets would have no knowledge of an upcoming second attack until it happens. Mark of Storm would be nice in conjuction with this power to let you forgo the push and instead slide the targets closer to you. The hindering shield feat would work the let you slow the targets making escape even more difficult.
Resounding Thunder+Enlarge Spell make this a yummy ally friendly burst 4, letting you get really nice board coverage. As far as effects being known, the targets only know effects on THEM. The ability to repeat the attack is an effect on YOU, so the targets would have no knowledge of an upcoming second attack until it happens. Mark of Storm would be nice in conjuction with this power to let you forgo the push and instead slide the targets closer to you. The hindering shield feat would work the let you slow the targets making escape even more difficult.



while this is "true" your missing a few facts in your thinking
1- when you use a power on an enemy the enemy becomes aware of the power completely.
2- the last line does not really state it as an effect. it just is something that is out there in limbo and happening.
In all honesty, if it makes the NPCs do something they'd rather not to break the loop, that can still be quite useful. There are plenty of ways for a coordinated party to lock the opponents in that area or scoop them back into it. Adding defender abilities along side the power just sweetens the deal.
Resounding Thunder+Enlarge Spell make this a yummy ally friendly burst 4, letting you get really nice board coverage. As far as effects being known, the targets only know effects on THEM. The ability to repeat the attack is an effect on YOU, so the targets would have no knowledge of an upcoming second attack until it happens.



Enlarge spell, obviously nerfed.

The enemies know what conditions you've imposed when you affect them with a power. Not what conditions you've imposed on the enemies...

That's why, as an example, Hellish Rebuke targets know to avoid hitting the Warlock - because they'll take damage again. I've never seen a DM rule differently.
I'd still say this is quite OP for a sorcerer / bard. Resounding thunder makes it a burst 3, and that is a huge sized thing in any place which is enclosed by walls.

I also don't know any encounter powers that make attacks beyond the end of your next turn after using it. In that way "it is not in line with other encounter powers of its level" which seemed to be a phrase often repeated in the errata document.

Expect errata.
I'd still say this is quite OP for a sorcerer / bard. Resounding thunder makes it a burst 3, and that is a huge sized thing in any place which is enclosed by walls.

I also don't know any encounter powers that make attacks beyond the end of your next turn after using it. In that way "it is not in line with other encounter powers of its level" which seemed to be a phrase often repeated in the errata document.

Expect errata.



It's in that "very good but, not OMG broken" range and I am finding very few people seem to be even aware of it. It does seem like it needs alot of multiclassing, hybridizing and feats to really abuse it so I am thinking it will be awhile if addressed at all.
I'd still say this is quite OP for a sorcerer / bard. Resounding thunder makes it a burst 3, and that is a huge sized thing in any place which is enclosed by walls.

I also don't know any encounter powers that make attacks beyond the end of your next turn after using it. In that way "it is not in line with other encounter powers of its level" which seemed to be a phrase often repeated in the errata document.

Expect errata.

It's in that "very good but, not OMG broken" range and I am finding very few people seem to be even aware of it. It does seem like it needs alot of multiclassing, hybridizing and feats to really abuse it so I am thinking it will be awhile if addressed at all.

Attack every turn till you miss is WAY to strong.  You repeate EVERY attack you hit.

Take for example, 3 creatures.  With 3 attack rolls, you hit 2, you repeat the attack 2x the next turn, with 6 attack rolls you hit 3 times, you repeat the attack 3x next turn, with 9 attack rolls you hit 5x, and repeate the attack 5x next turn....

Yea it's VERY broken.  Just limit it to 1 extra attack (total, no repeats) and it'll still be a pretty good power.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Another one of those "next turn" context issues. Good candidate for a clarification. Maybe move the 2nd sentence in the Hit entry to an Effect entry.
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
Attack every turn till you miss is WAY to strong.  You repeate EVERY attack you hit.

Take for example, 3 creatures.  With 3 attack rolls, you hit 2, you repeat the attack 2x the next turn, with 6 attack rolls you hit 3 times, you repeat the attack 3x next turn, with 9 attack rolls you hit 5x, and repeate the attack 5x next turn....

Yea it's VERY broken.  Just limit it to 1 extra attack (total, no repeats) and it'll still be a pretty good power.



If you are interpreting it as an extra attack on each enemy in the burst at the beginning of the round per hit on the previous round then, yes, it is very broken. That strikes me as a possible way to read the words but, too obviously over-powered for anyone to reasonably apply that as the intended or appropriate interpretation. Damage or not, I'd dread having to roll all those dice and keep track of it in a crowded room if, it worked that way.
Hit: ... repeat the attack...

You hit, then you can repeat the attack.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Hit: ... repeat the attack...

You hit, then you can repeat the attack.


I can't imagine anyone playing it this way, but I have to agree that is how it's worded.  If you had a power that said "Hit: 1d6 damage and shift one square" and you hit three targets, then you would deal 1d6 damage to each and shift three squares total.

Seemed like errata fodder with just a single repeat each round, but this makes it very clear.
Every book they get a little better using Hit, Secondary Attack, Effect, etc.
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
Seemed like errata fodder with just a single repeat each round, but this makes it very clear.

Even that seems like to much.  A single repeat would be enough.  Perhaps as an effect, so you don't need to hit.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

Yes, if I were going to errata it, I'd say one repeat is enough.  One repeat per round is probably too strong, but I'd at least be willing to think about it.  And making it an effect would be nice.
Flavour text: "You send two successive waves of thunder rolling from you."

Seems pretty clear it's intended for the repeat to only occur once.
Sign In to post comments