One Encounter Work Day Solution?

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So, I've heard some talk about how some groups are having the problem of the party only goes through one encounter per day, blows all their powers, then rests to come back at it the next day. Never had this problem myself, but I think I hit upon a solution. Give all the PCs:

Potent Action

Encounter
Immeadiate Interrupt

Trigger: You hit an opponent.

Effect: One enemy you hit takes an extra 1d6 damage for every Action Point you currently have. Treat this damage as if it were caused by the attack that triggered it.
Increase damage to 1d8 per Action Point at 11th level and to d10 per Action Point at 21st.

Maybe this should go into the house rules section, I'm not sure. If any ORC sees fit to move this I  won't be hurt over it. Smile

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

So basically the people who take an extended rest after every encounter also get an extra 1d6 damage during that encounter? Really this seems less useful to people with multiple encounters per day who hypothetically will fluctuate between 1 and 0 AP each encounter most of the time.

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.

So basically the people who take an extended rest after every encounter also get an extra 1d6 damage during that encounter? Really this seems less useful to people with multiple encounters per day who hypothetically will fluctuate between 1 and 0 AP each encounter most of the time.




Yes, but the people who BANK THEIR AP will get an extra 2d6 or more per encounter. Which would you rather do, burn an AP or get get an extra 2d6 damage (or more) for the next few encounters?

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

its a good idea but the benefit needs to be on par with using a daily power which may give far more than 1 or 2 extra dice. This really might be something better dealt with by encounter design. Give your players a time limit.

  • Maybe they deal with an encounter that leads them into a chase.

  • Try  a burning building scenario where waiting will cost lives.

  • Race a gallows where you need to get back to town before an execution is to take place in order to save an innocent man.

  • Send them out to gather medicine for a magical disease and have time be of the essence.

  • Have them face reinforcements 10 minutes after a fight. they get a chance to heal but they aren't fully refreshed.


 Don't make all encounters like this but mix and match so the players know sometimes they can blow all their dailies in one fight but sometimes they want to think ahead.
The two best solutions to this problem I've heard:
1. Have the bad guys advance with their plans during the 18 hours or so the PCs are cooling their heels.
2. Look at your players and tell them to stop being such wankers/losers/whatever you want to call them.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
The two best solutions to this problem I've heard:
1. Have the bad guys advance with their plans during the 18 hours or so the PCs are cooling their heels.
2. Look at your players and tell them to stop being such wankers/losers/whatever you want to call them.



Agreed. You have to give the players a reason to risk their necks, otherwise they'll do the smart thing and make sure every encounter is a cakewalk. If the Lich is going to sit in his lair, waiting for the heroes, he deserves to fight them fresh.
The two best solutions to this problem I've heard:
1. Have the bad guys advance with their plans during the 18 hours or so the PCs are cooling their heels.
2. Look at your players and tell them to stop being such wankers/losers/whatever you want to call them.



Ideally, yes. I've never had the problem. It just occurred to me today that something like this may work as a "carrot" solution instead of a "stick" solution.

As for effectiveness...

Encounter 1: 1d6 extra damage
Encounter 2: 1d6 extra damage
Encounter 3: 2d6 extra damage
Encounter 4: 2d6 extra damage
Encounter 5: 3d6 extra damage

Over the course of 5 encounters one is potentially looking at an extra 9d6 damage, provided the character used no AP. Which doesn't stop the character from using an AP during the later battles. And, of course, it is pretty much gaurenteed damage.

Maybe this requires more forethought than the 1 encounter/workday crowd generally does? Or does it require too much selling on the part of the DM? Or is it really underpowered?

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.


Yes, but the people who BANK THEIR AP will get an extra 2d6 or more per encounter. Which would you rather do, burn an AP or get get an extra 2d6 damage (or more) for the next few encounters?


Well, unless my DM was sensible enough to ignore the "1 AP per encounter, so much for effective resource management, lulz" rule, I'd prefer burning the AP for an extra 1d10 damage plus slide/shift/status effect/saving throw/whatever other riders mah power has every other encounter. Although if you are ignoring said rule, then hoarding would be a lot more appealing.
But regardless this doesn't really do much to discourage players from taking an extended rest anyway, since they can still get a 1d6 bonus every time, and I don't think low damage output is the problem.

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
Seems like this rewards bad gaming habits, to be honest. A single encounter (1 minute maybe?) in 12 hours. I just don't allow pcs to rest that soon. They need to manage their dailies better. [edit] players only need to take extended rests when they're out of healing surges. They should be able to complete encounters with encounter powers and at-wills.
Long Live Dragonlance and the Nexus! I still want an athasian nightmare beast and a warforged dragon mini! "Look, Meat, I'll tear your face off, rip your throat out and eat what's left-because that's what I do to food like you." ~Thrikreen Intimidation Tactic.
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The main issue here is that the only way to get these players to knock it off other then the two suggestions put forth by Salla is by making them more powerful in the second encounter then they were in the first.

This is a 100% "gotta be at my best" way of playing. As long as during the second encounter the players aren't better off then in the first, they'll just rest. You will not be able to convince them for the world to continue and fight in a weaker state then they could be in.

Unless you ask them to cut the crap, or make the second encounter harder (with story reasons like extra reinforcements, fortifications, etc) if they rest. 
Epic Dungeon Master

Want to give your players a kingdom of their own? I made a 4e rule system to make it happen!

Your Kingdom awaits!
Update 5th Sep 2011: Added a sample kingdom, as well as sample of play.

The game mechanical aspects of the encounter power also make no sense. First of all, as an Immediate Interrupt you are favoring some classes above others. Defenders for example are rarely going to use their Immediate actions since the mark ability is also one. Secondly, you cannot take immediate actions during your own turn, meaning that the only time you could use this power is with an opportunity attack which is a relatively rare situation.

Personally, I think storywise concequences and encounter design are a better sollution to get people to stop having 5-minute days. If you are going to add powers the longer they keep going, you might be better off doing away completely with the daily power mechanism, or less powerful, allow an AP to be exchanged for the return of a daily power. The biggest risk to these changes is that it clashes with the power design. It makes it harder for a DM to estimate how well a group is going to do during a fight.


Yes, but the people who BANK THEIR AP will get an extra 2d6 or more per encounter. Which would you rather do, burn an AP or get get an extra 2d6 damage (or more) for the next few encounters?


Well, unless my DM was sensible enough to ignore the "1 AP per encounter, so much for effective resource management, lulz" rule, I'd prefer burning the AP for an extra 1d10 damage plus slide/shift/status effect/saving throw/whatever other riders mah power has every other encounter. Although if you are ignoring said rule, then hoarding would be a lot more appealing.
But regardless this doesn't really do much to discourage players from taking an extended rest anyway, since they can still get a 1d6 bonus every time, and I don't think low damage output is the problem.



You're right, it isn't discouragement. The whole point of the idea was to encourage an alternative instead of simply discouraging something else.

However, it seems the consensus so far is that this won't work. By the looks of it, I don't think I can make this more powerful than it already is without making it potentially unbalancing.

As for the power level, let's say you get 1d10 plus rider every other encounter. In five encounters that's 3d10 plus riders, assuming these attacks hit. Contrast to 9d6 damage that is nearly gaurenteed. Average wise, that's 16.5 damage (plus riders, which are sometimes really hard to assign a value to, IMX) Vs. 31.5 damage (and no riders).

I really can't make the carrot any bigger without turning it into a nuke, can I? And Pluisjen makes an interesting observation on the mentality of the 1 Encounter/Workday crowd.

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.


The game mechanical aspects of the encounter power also make no sense. First of all, as an Immediate Interrupt you are favoring some classes above others. Defenders for example are rarely going to use their Immediate actions since the mark ability is also one. Secondly, you cannot take immediate actions during your own turn, meaning that the only time you could use this power is with an opportunity attack which is a relatively rare situation.



Ok, so I obviously templated this wrong, because I meant this to work in a manner akin to Sneak Attack. I.e., once you land the hit, regardless of when, you burn the power and a minor for the extra damage.

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

Ok, so I obviously templated this wrong, because I meant this to work in a manner akin to Sneak Attack. I.e., once you land the hit, regardless of when, you burn the power and a minor for the extra damage.


Erm... nitpicking, but Sneak Attack is a free action. If you make this power a minor action it only works during a player's turn and it would hurt classes that use minor actions a lot (e.g. warlocks) ;)
Ok, so I obviously templated this wrong, because I meant this to work in a manner akin to Sneak Attack. I.e., once you land the hit, regardless of when, you burn the power and a minor for the extra damage.


Erm... nitpicking, but Sneak Attack is a free action. If you make this power a minor action it only works during a player's turn and it would hurt classes that use minor actions a lot (e.g. warlocks) ;)



I used the word "akin". Yes, I know SA is a free. I've played enough 4e to know that. (I've yet to be in a 4e game that went beyond level 5. And I really don't care enough to read every single power list of every single class. Or even all the class descriptions. Very little of this is need-to-know information.)

I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable about this not costing an action. Changing it to read "Minor or Immeadiate Interrupt" would work for what I intend, yes/no? I'm not sure how much of a trade this would be for minor action dependant classes.  Perhaps worth it if there are 2 or 3 AP banked? (The only minor action heavy class I've used is Paladin, and I've found the Pally's marking ability to be... Not useless, but under a lot of circumstances I'd gladly trade it for extra damage.)

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.

No need to put it in the houserules or anything, theres several solutions.

Knowing what the problem stems from helps those who are making suggestions. I'll try and be as comprehensive as I can.


Rule 1: Its not good to balk your Player's ideas ALL the time. Keep this in mind when implementing things below. Refer to the intelligence of the monsters - and communicate to the players sometimes when the monsters are too foolish or stupid. They'll get a kick out of it, and get to play around with thier more powerful powers.
Rule 2: If you increase difficulty, don't necessarily increase the XP gain rate. It especially throws things off if you're running a module or something like scales of war. Think of it in terms of removing some reward because the PCs aren't being challenged, so they don't deserve it - and then add more because you're filling out the XP budget for the encounter.
Solution 0: Don't give the PCs XP for standard monsters or treat them like minions in terms of XP budget. They're just cannon fodder in the face of constant dailies, and thus arent a threat or worth XP. This is a last ditch solution.

Situation 1: The PCs just walk out of the dungeon / walk home after each fight.


Problem: You are probably treating encounters as being compartmentalized - that is to say, things that happen in an encounter don't attract the attention of creatures in the next room. Otherwise, as the DM you are simply placing encounters too far apart. Really, this is the point of things like dungeons and random encounters - in an open city or sandboxing world, encounters really may fall too far apart. If this is the case, skip down a few situations - ill cover that seperately.
Solution 1: Make monsters aware of what's goin on in a dungeon. Combat is LOUD. Even just regular talking and the set up of a camp to rest in is pretty loud. If the party can handle it, have the occupants of the next room call for reinforcements for thier own position, and pile into the one the PCs are in. Or have them fortify thier own position with traps and obstacles while the PCs are busy fighting. It makes for great storytelling sometimes. Don't call down the whole dungeon on 'em - but creatures in places they havent been to might come explore what all the ruckus is about. Let them hear shouted orders from down the hall when in combat so they know something's up.
Solution 2: Have the monsters fortify while the PCs are gone. Adventurers don't just walk out of a place without coming back, leaving things undone, unless theyve been DRIVEN out. Intelligent creatures will know this - they'll know the PCs will be back, and they 'll prepare for it. Drastically increase the number of minions and standard monsters, or shuffle around some of the elites from further back in the dungeon - BBEGs will give them orders to 'make sure this doesn't happen again'.
Solution 3: If you don't want to make things harder for a given fight, just add some NEW monsters in the room that was vacated. Don't just replace the monsters - your players will probably feel kind of insulted by that, and wonder why you didnt do something more devious. But a different configuration, especially the addition of 'new hires' and hazards, will quickly make it plain to the players that the dungeon is reacting to thier presence. If they STILL don't get the picture, start ramping up difficulty each time they return, espeically with regards to putting in monsters or giving creatures abilities that specifically counter PC ones - monsters can learn, you know.
Solution 4: If your players are particularly intractable in that none of the above convinces them, you could just have some other adventuring party come in after they are gone and take advantage of the chaos they've just sown. They move in, get the treasure, get the glory, and the PCs are just left wondering why they didnt finish the job they started. Do this a few times, and your players will get the hint.

Situation 2: Players rest in the dungeon after every fight.


Problem: First off, read the Problem section of Situation 1. You're probably doing this. If you are, check out some of those solutions. Its possible however, that the players are being rather craftier - like using an Exodus Knife or something. Or they've found a room they know patrols won't pass by, or are hiding somehow.
Solution 1: Change patrol routes after the 2nd rest in the same room. If there aren't patrols, add them (leaving at least 1 room safe where they can rest - most modules do it this way). The monsters will know the PCs are still here - they havent seen them leave, and they are still dying. If they aren't finding the intruders and the intruders are still killing denizens, eventually someone/thing will realize theres a gap in thier patrols or that they REALLY need to start searching. Keep in mind also that patrols report to somebody - they don't just wander around in circles, never talking to thier superiors. When a patrol goes missing, someone's gonna investigate when they don't report back - so when patrol routes are altered, and find a group of resting PCs, if they don't report back, expect MAJOR investigation of that particular route - if the PCs don't move, theyre in trouble.
Solution 2: Exodus Knife. Keep in mind that the Exodus Knife's duration only lasts 8 hours, and it can't be used for 12 hours after that. Setting up and taking down camp for sleeping takes time - a fair bit of time, involving the removing/donning of armor, the unpacking/packing of bedrolls, maybe the creation of a campfire. Unless the part has instant campsites or something, and even the rituals that create those take some time, from 10 minutes to an hour. If you're really a jerk, keep that time in mind when they use the knife - it should actually dump them out of it before theyve had the full 8 hours. The first time they get dumped half-asleep into the arms of waiting monsters will shock them into reality pretty fast. Also ask the PCs if they brought any food - if nobody has rations on thier sheet, what are they eating? If they cook, wheres the smoke going while theyre in the exodus knife room? Something might see/smell that if the doors left open, and if they close it, theyll smother/suffocate pretty fast in a room that small.

Situation 3: Encounters too far apart


Problem: Either the PCs are in an open (sandboxing) world and can go where they want, the adventure is cross-country, cross-planar, or in a crowded city.
Solution 1: About only one of two things you can do here. If the PCs have plenty of healing, add Elites. They dish out more damage so strain party healing more, and they require bigger expenditure of power resources to take down. If the party is low on healing, add more minions that have special abilities, plus the occassional regular monsters. Minions with auras or death abilities are great for making PCs expend resources, because they want to get rid of them fast before they actually begin to pose a threat. And if they DONT get rid of them fast, the PCs have to expend healing resources to make up for it.
Solution 2: Let them. I mean, its fairly realistic, right? I don't really see why you should penalize the PCs beause they are taking advantage of a situation you put them in in the first place. Let em have thier fun, and eventually move the adventure to a location more like a real dungeon every so often, so they don't get the benefit all the time.

Situation 4: High Level Rituals


Problem: The PCs are very high level, and have discovered how to combine rituals such that they can leave and come back whenever they want. (There are expensive ways, and there are cheap ways, if your players are very creative. My current group in E3 effectively can come and go from Orcus' stronghold at will, using a crafty combination of Exodus Knife, Primal Grove, and Linked Portal, with True Portal as a backup in case of problems.)
Solution 1: Have the monsters use rituals themselves to block it. There are teleportation blocking lair items and rituals. Make sure you know EXACTLY what those rituals say - many of them have some caveats that can be exploited by highly inteliigent monsters. If they know people are teleporting in and out of the place, there are a few steps they can take to solve the problem if the PCs don't have enough in the way of contingencies. And if they do . . have monsters take those steps anyway at first - rewards the PCs for thier craftiness, give the group a smile once or twice while the monsters try and figure out what's going on. It adds realism to the monsters' actions and motivations, and of course there's Rule 1.
Solution 2: If your players are REALLY crafty, or just really persistent in thier abuse, you may just have to buckle down and add more monsters or hazards to each fight. That, or you have to just make up some lair items preventing general teleportation in or out of an area, and implement regular patrols. Even then, its not really the best of solutions in a lot of groups - essentially, it means that in order to make fights threatening to the PCs, you ramp up the difficulty, which means each fight may mean PC deaths. Essentially, you really ought to ask your players to stop before you reach the 'I just add more for no reason' stage, and if they still don't want to stop, then warn them that characters may die because of this. (Assuming the root problem isn't that your party just wants cakewalks and monster-slaughtering for their encounters - theres nothing wrong with that kind of game, but everyone needs to want it or people get bored/unhappy).


Situation 5: Players Just Dont Care (In Progress, based on comments)


Problem: You take all the above into account, and your players still want to go back every fight. Or you don't feel comfortable replenishing creatures ad infinitum (not unreasonable), and the players are willing to wait it out assuming theyll run out of minions eventually.
Solution 1: Well, the BBEG could always run away. I mean, if the PCs are actually still making thier way into the heart of the dungeon despite the BBEGs best efforts to stop them, then either he needs to come after them directly himself with everything at his command, or he needs to just get the heck out of dodge.
Solution 2: See Situation 1, Solution 4. Seriously, if another adventuring party caught wind that some major dungeon was in a bad way, would they go in and finish it off and make off with the treasure first if they could? Heck, even the monsters themselves might do it, if any of the denizens don't like each other.
It just occurred to me today that something like this may work as a "carrot" solution instead of a "stick" solution.

For me, the carrot is overcoming the challenges within the timeframe the encounter demands. The stick is having the bad guys prepared, optimized, ready, effective, and perhaps even winning.

I find *most* one-and-done complaints are when encounters simply don't require pressing on. No time frames. (No ticking clocks.) No bad guy plans to foil. (No bad guy plans.)

Want the PCs to press on? Make the story have a reason to press on.

Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
Seeker hits the nail on the head.

If my party has no need to rush, they are happy to fight one encounter and then rest until all of their powers are back. 

They know better with me.

There are places where resting is safe.  There are places where resting usually results in some nasty trying to eat them. 

Then there are rituals.  The rituals that basically let them do what they want.  I like the idea of counter-rituals.  Enemies have powers too.  Use them.

A suggestion: The PCs start with 0 action points, not 1, after each extended rest. They will gain their first A.P. only after the first encounter of the day. To compensate, you can give one AP after each encounter, ignoring "milestones".

[<o>]
Sounds like a boring game to me, one encounter then they do an extended rest? What do they do while they aren't resting? Sit around and tell jokes? My players started out with a tendancy to do full rests more often than they should, but before long they got 3-4 encounters in before that extended rest, unless they are particularly difficult encounters.

One way to get them off their ****, if they aren't leaving the dangerous area to rest, ambush them in the middle of their rest, and do it quite often, or at least repopulate the areas they've been to when they rest to often.

The action point system the OP suggests is an interesting idea, though I've already houserulled my APs (using one an grant you an extra action or return an encounter power you've used during the encounter.) But that would provide an extra punch to parties that blow their best stuff in every single encounter and a good reason not to. At the very least once they got a few action points and learned how to alpha with them against BBEGs they'd lean the reason you only do an extended rest after your out of healing surges or damn low and have used up your APs in the last encounter so as not to waste them.
I really can't imagine that this is a better solution than just telling the players,"No, its too soon since the last rest".  If they push it, push back.  Coming up with a bunch of rules simply to avoid taking a firm hand with your players regarding existing game mechanics, especially houserules that seems to reward the very behaviour you are trying to stop, is..well..lame imo.
just telling the players,"No, its too soon since the last rest"

Why is it too soon? It's not like the *players* are sitting around watching the clock to see if they can move on to the next encounter. If the players say they wait 12 hours and then sleep for 8 hours, that takes as much real time as saying they press on.

So why shouldn't an adventuring group take an extended rest after each encounter? Sure, they have to wait a bit longer than 12 hours to take it, but what is wrong with the one-and-done approach? If the answer provided is not an in-game answer, then it is not an appropriate answer.

Unless the story requires pressing on, there is no real reason to press on.
Creating a story that requires pressing on is the only "solution" to this non-problem.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
just telling the players,"No, its too soon since the last rest"

Why is it too soon? It's not like the *players* are sitting around watching the clock to see if they can move on to the next encounter. If the players say they wait 12 hours and then sleep for 8 hours, that takes as much real time as saying they press on.

So why shouldn't an adventuring group take an extended rest after each encounter? Sure, they have to wait a bit longer than 12 hours to take it, but what is wrong with the one-and-done approach? If the answer provided is not an in-game answer, then it is not an appropriate answer.

Unless the story requires pressing on, there is no real reason to press on.
Creating a story that requires pressing on is the only "solution" to this non-problem.



I think there's some truth to that but I also think the players have a responsibility to portray their characters as they'd portray their characters in the "story".  Even lacking a strict time limit, would most adventurers really tromp an hour into some caves, fight one thing, retreat even though they're hardly winded, sit around outside doing nothing for 18 hours, sleep, tromp another hour back into the cave, fight one thing, retreat, etc, for a solid week?  Probably not, "in character" adventurers would be more impatient and probably more prone to complain of sheer boredom spending 18 hours of each day sitting around doing nothing just to make sure they're absolutely in top shape for each fight.  Most personalities that would decide to make their living raiding ancient tombs and fighting hideous monsters instead of sitting at home raising cows would tend to be a little more confident and willing to press on.
...especially houserules that seems to reward the very behaviour you are trying to stop...



It was meant to give extra incentive to going on: free extra damage. I can see people simply exploiting it for an extra 1d6 damage once per encounter and continuing to play with a 1 Encounter Workday. I didn't think of that at the time I wrote it up, only of the idea of giving them a damage bump that worked off of an already present mechanic.

Scope my YouTube channel!

Here's a shout out for Scholars' Books & Games in Bridgewater, MA, and for Paladin's Place in Darmstadt, Hessen, Germany where I was stationed for two years. Support your FLGS!

Attacking the darkness since 1987, turning creatures sideways since 1994.


I think there's some truth to that but I also think the players have a responsibility to portray their characters as they'd portray their characters in the "story".  Even lacking a strict time limit, would most adventurers really tromp an hour into some caves, fight one thing, retreat even though they're hardly winded, sit around outside doing nothing for 18 hours, sleep, tromp another hour back into the cave, fight one thing, retreat, etc, for a solid week?


To be fair, that's basically how Lord of the Rings handles things .

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
I'd give my players such a look when they say they're going to leave the dungeon, and if they don't break the awkward silence first then I'd say, "You just fought one encounter. You're going to abandon this monstrously populated dungeon after clearing only one room, with no regard for what might be lurking behind the next door, or what might come down to this room while you're gone?"

I've never had to do that with my players, though, even from public games. Then again, my public games tend to attract people new to RPGs, and they emulate fictional heroes - none of whom finish one fight and then head back to town.

I think there's some truth to that but I also think the players have a responsibility to portray their characters as they'd portray their characters in the "story".  Even lacking a strict time limit, would most adventurers really tromp an hour into some caves, fight one thing, retreat even though they're hardly winded, sit around outside doing nothing for 18 hours, sleep, tromp another hour back into the cave, fight one thing, retreat, etc, for a solid week?


To be fair, that's basically how Lord of the Rings handles things .


I can't tell if this is sarcasm (damn you, internet!) but LotR definitely does NOT do that; half of the time the main characters are fighting entire armies by themselves, and any time they're in a "dungeon" like Moria, they go in and through; they never retreat in and out of anywhere at any point.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm (damn you, internet!) but LotR definitely does NOT do that; half of the time the main characters are fighting entire armies by themselves, and any time they're in a "dungeon" like Moria, they go in and through; they never retreat in and out of anywhere at any point.


Yeah I suppose, I was mostly taking a shot at the fact that it certainly gives the impression  that nothing's happening, what with Tolkien devoting entire chapters to describing the texture of Gandalf's beard or Frodo's gait-GET TO THE RINGWRAITHS!

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
just telling the players,"No, its too soon since the last rest"

Why is it too soon? It's not like the *players* are sitting around watching the clock to see if they can move on to the next encounter. If the players say they wait 12 hours and then sleep for 8 hours, that takes as much real time as saying they press on.

So why shouldn't an adventuring group take an extended rest after each encounter? Sure, they have to wait a bit longer than 12 hours to take it, but what is wrong with the one-and-done approach? If the answer provided is not an in-game answer, then it is not an appropriate answer.

Unless the story requires pressing on, there is no real reason to press on.
Creating a story that requires pressing on is the only "solution" to this non-problem.



I tend to think that the story automatically creates the reason to press on as long as possible because the PCs should be playing heroes and should be highly-motivated to do heroic deeds, protect people, and all that jazz.  Batman doesn't stop one bank robbery then go back to stately Wayne Manor to eat popcorn and watch Robin do a Batpoledance.

It should be something the players embrace as a convention of the genre, even if it doesn't necessarily make logical sense to do so.  Fortunately, most of my players are pretty good with that.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
The simplest solution is to limit extended rests by activity rather than by time: you must complete (typically) 4 encounters in order to take an extended rest, regardless of how long passes between encounters.

Adventures generally structure themselves around that expectation (3-5 encounters before an extended rest, repeat) anyway, so there should be a reasonable 'pause point' for the extended rest to take place. If you're going with this approach you may even want to set extended rest time to an hour or the like rather than 'all night' since time is no longer the issue.
Batman doesn't stop one bank robbery then go back to stately Wayne Manor to eat popcorn and watch Robin do a Batpoledance.

Yes he does. Except for the popcorn. It gets stuck in his teeth.

Seriously, though, Batman indeed *does* stop at one bank robbery, then heads back home if the encounter took anything out of him. Alfred patches him up. But he's a hero. Despite still feeling like crap in the morning, Batman does it again the next day.
Here are the PHB essentia, in my opinion:
  • Three Basic Rules (p 11)
  • Power Types and Usage (p 54)
  • Skills (p178-179)
  • Feats (p 192)
  • Rest and Recovery (p 263)
  • All of Chapter 9 [Combat] (p 264-295)
A player needs to read the sections for building his or her character -- race, class, powers, feats, equipment, etc. But those are PC-specific. The above list is for everyone, regardless of the race or class or build or concept they are playing.
Batman doesn't stop one bank robbery then go back to stately Wayne Manor to eat popcorn and watch Robin do a Batpoledance.

Yes he does. Except for the popcorn. It gets stuck in his teeth.

Seriously, though, Batman indeed *does* stop at one bank robbery, then heads back home if the encounter took anything out of him. Alfred patches him up. But he's a hero. Despite still feeling like crap in the morning, Batman does it again the next day.



Not if it took anything out of him, no ... if it took EVERYTHING out of him, yes.  Even if he expended his daily powers (to use the D&D term), unless he was critically low on surges, he'd keep going, because he's crazy motivated.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Has anyone tried just talking to the players?

I mean, as a DM I'm going to assume that the players know LOTS of stuff that their characters don't.  

You might tell them:

"This next series of encounters is going to be very challenging and dangerous, but they are all independent and not time sensitive. You aren't going to get screwed if you burn a ton of dailies in one fight."

or

"This series of encounters will be time sensitive and involve good resource management. You aren't going to be able to get an extended rest just when you want it, automatically."

I mean, ideally, you could plant clues to that in the game itself, so that the characters can figure it out, but as a measure of last resort....

I know that will strike some DMs as fake, and others are railroading.  On the other hand, the skill challenges I've ran where I gave the players a little bit of overt stage direction were a LOT more successful and entertaining than the ones I didn't. Maybe it was my group.
unless he was critically low on surges, he'd keep going, because he's crazy motivated.


Bah, when you're out of surges isn't when you take an extended rest. That's when things get interesting. [/Kenpachi]
(It certainly makes fighting Wights as a Deva more fun; "3 necrotic damage and you lose a surge"
"Resist 6 necrotic and I don't have any surges "). 

Zammm = Batman.

It's my sig in a box
58280208 wrote:
Everything is better when you read it in Bane's voice.
192334281 wrote:
Your human antics and desire to continue living have moved me. Just kidding. You cannot move me physically or emotionally. Wall humor.
57092228 wrote:
Copy effects work like a photocopy machine: you get a copy of the 'naked' card, NOT of what's on it.
56995928 wrote:
Funny story: InQuest Magazine (I think it was InQuest) had an oversized Chaos Orb which I totally rooked someone into allowing into a (non-sanctioned) game. I had a proxy card that was a Mountain with "Chaos Orb" written on it. When I played it, my opponent cried foul: Him: "WTF? a Proxy? no-one said anything about Proxies. Do you even own an actual Chaos Orb?" Me: "Yes, but I thought it would be better to use a Proxy." Him: "No way. If you're going to put a Chaos Orb in your deck you have to use your actual Chaos Orb." Me: "*Sigh*. Okay." I pulled out this huge Chaos Orb and placed it on the table. He tried to cry foul again but everyone else said he insisted I use my actual Chaos Orb and that was my actual Chaos Orb. I used it, flipped it and wiped most of his board. Unsurprisingly, that only worked once and only because everyone present thought it was hilarious.
My DM on Battleminds:
no, see i can kill defenders, but 8 consecutive crits on a battlemind, eh walk it off.
144543765 wrote:
195392035 wrote:
Hi guys! So, I'm a sort of returning player to Magic. I say sort of because as a child I had two main TCG's I liked. Yu-Gi-Oh, and Pokemon. Some of my friends branched off in to Magic, and I bought two pre-made decks just to kind of fit in. Like I said, Yu-Gi-Oh and Pokemon were what I really knew how to play. I have a extensive knowledge of deck building in those two TCG's. However, as far as Magic is concerned, I only ever used those two pre made decks. I know how the game is played, and I know general things, but now I want to get in the game for real. I want to begin playing it as a regular. My question is, are all cards ever released from the time of the inception of this game until present day fair game in a deck? Or are there special rules? Are some cards forbidden or restricted? Thanks guys, and I will gladly accept ANY help lol.
I have the same problem with women.
117639611 wrote:
198869283 wrote:
Oh I have a standing rule. If someone plays a Planeswalker I concede the game. I refuse to play with or against people who play Planeswalkers. They really did ruin the game.
A turn two Tibalt win?! Wicked... Betcha don't see that everyday.

The Pony Co. 

Is this my new ego sig? Yes it is, other Barry
57461258 wrote:
And that's why you should never, ever call RP Jesus on being a troll, because then everyone else playing along gets outed, too, and the thread goes back to being boring.
57461258 wrote:
See, this is why RPJesus should be in charge of the storyline. The novel line would never have been cancelled if he had been running the show. Specifically the Slobad and Geth's Head talkshow he just described.
57461258 wrote:
Not only was that an obligatory joke, it was an on-topic post that still managed to be off-topic due to thread derailment. RP Jesus does it again folks.
92481331 wrote:
I think I'm gonna' start praying to Jesus... That's right, RPJesus, I'm gonna' be praying to you, right now. O' Jesus Please continue to make my time here on the forums fun and cause me to chuckle. Amen.
92481331 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
It was wonderful. Us Johnnies had a field day. That Timmy with the Grizzly bears would actually have to think about swinging into your Mogg Fanatic, giving you time to set up your silly combo. Nowadays it's all DERPSWING! with thier blue jeans and their MP3 players and their EM EM OH AR PEE JEES and their "Dewmocracy" and their children's card games and their Jersey Shores and their Tattooed Tenaged Vampire Hunters from Beverly Hills
Seriously, that was amazing. I laughed my *ss off. Made my day, and I just woke up.
[quote=ArtVenn You're still one of my favorite people... just sayin'.[/quote]
56756068 wrote:
56786788 wrote:
.....would it be a bit blasphemous if I said, "PRAYSE RPJAYSUS!" like an Evangelical preacher?
Perhaps, but who doesn't like to blaspheme every now and again? Especially when Mr. RPJesus is completely right.
56756068 wrote:
I don't say this often, but ... LOL
57526128 wrote:
You... You... Evil something... I actualy made the damn char once I saw the poster... Now you made me see it again and I gained resolve to put it into my campaign. Shell be high standing oficial of Cyrix order. Uterly mad and only slightly evil. And it'll be bad. Evil even. And ill blame you and Lizard for it :P.
57042968 wrote:
111809331 wrote:
I'm trying to work out if you're being sarcastic here. ...
Am going to stop you right there... it's RPJesus... he's always sarcastic
58335208 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
112114441 wrote:
we can only hope it gets the jace treatment...it could have at least been legendary
So that even the decks that don't run it run it to deal with it? Isn't that like the definition of format warping?
I lol'd.
56287226 wrote:
98088088 wrote:
Uktabi Orangutan What the heck's going on with those monkeys?
The most common answer is that they are what RPJesus would call "[Debutantes avert your eyes]ing."
56965458 wrote:
Show
57461258 wrote:
116498949 wrote:
I’ve removed content from this thread because off-topic discussions are a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code here: www.wizards.com/Company/About.aspx?x=wz_... Please keep your posts polite, on-topic, and refrain from making personal attacks. You are welcome to disagree with one another but please do so respectfully and constructively. If you wish to report a post for Code of Conduct violation, click on the “Report Post” button above the post and this will submit your report to the moderators on duty.
...Am I the only one that thinks this is reaching the point of downright Kafkaesque insanity?
I condone the use of the word Kafkaesque. However, I'm presentely ambivalent. I mean, that can't be serious, right? We're April 1st, right? They didn't mod RPJesus for off-topic discussion when the WHOLE THREAD IS OFF-TOPIC, right? Right.
57545908 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
Save or die. If you disagree with this, you're wrong (Not because of any points or arguements that have been made, but I just rolled a d20 for you and got a 1, so you lose).
58397368 wrote:
58222628 wrote:
This just won the argument, AFAIC.
That's just awesome.
57471038 wrote:
57718868 wrote:
HOW DID I NOT KNOW ABOUT THE BEAR PRODUCING WORDS OF WILDING?! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?!
That's what RPJesus tends to do. That's why I don't think he's a real person, but some Magic Card Archive Server sort of machine, that is programmed to react to other posters' comments with obscure cards that do in fact exist, but somehow missed by even the most experienced Magic players. And then come up with strange combos with said cards. All of that is impossible for a normal human to do given the amount of time he does it and how often he does it. He/It got me with Light of Sanction, which prompted me to go to RQ&A to try and find if it was even possible to do combat damage to a creature I control (in light that Mark of Asylum exists).
71235715 wrote:
+10
100176878 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
57078538 wrote:
heaven or hell.
Round 1. Lets rock.
GG quotes! RPJesus just made this thread win!
56906968 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
143359585 wrote:
Blue players get all the overpowerered cards like JTMS. I think it's time that wizards gave something to people who remember what magic is really about: creatures.
Initially yes, Wizards was married to blue. However, about a decade ago they had a nasty divorce, and a few years after that they began courting the attention of Green. Then in Worldwake they had a nasty affair with their ex, but as of Innistrad, things seem to have gotten back on track, and Wizards has even proposed.
You are my favorite. Yes you. And moments like this make it so. Thank you RPJesus for just being you.
On what flavor text fits me:
57307308 wrote:
Surely RPJesus gets Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius?
56874518 wrote:
First: I STILL can't take you seriously with that avatar. And I can take RPJesus seriously, so that's saying something.
121689989 wrote:
I'd offer you a cookie for making me laugh but it has an Upkeep Cost that has been known to cause people to quit eating.
56267956 wrote:
I <3 you loads
57400888 wrote:
56957928 wrote:
"AINT NO LAWS IN THE SKY MOTHER****." - Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
10/10. Amazing.
Batman doesn't stop one bank robbery then go back to stately Wayne Manor to eat popcorn and watch Robin do a Batpoledance.

Yes he does. Except for the popcorn. It gets stuck in his teeth.

Seriously, though, Batman indeed *does* stop at one bank robbery, then heads back home if the encounter took anything out of him. Alfred patches him up. But he's a hero. Despite still feeling like crap in the morning, Batman does it again the next day.


As long as the bank robbery isn't one encounter long.

Encounter 1: Guys in the lobby
Encounter 2: Guys in the vault
Encounter 3: The mastermind appears

Batman isn't going to go back to the Batcave when the robbery is still in-progress!

Addendum: Let's look at this in reverse, actually. The players are the bank robbers (except they're stealing from monsters, which makes it OK), and the encounters are the guards, the police, and security (traps). Bank robbers can't just take out the lobby guards and then leave to rest before coming back, so why can adventurers take out the first dungeon room's encounter and leave?
Try this.

Next time the party goes into a dungeon only to stop after the first room have another group show up and press on while they rest. by the time they are done resting the other party will have defeated the boss and taken all the treasure. Have the other party chuckle as they pass your group on the way out and make fun of them for sleeping in a dungeon.

Nothing says a town only hires one group to complete a quest. they only need to pay the one that finishes it.

Shame them into manning up. 
I guess when the pcs go to sleep, the world stops turning in many games. It doesn't in mine. If the players waste time after a single encounter til they can take an extended rest, I'd eventually have the end goal impossible to accomplish. The BBEG would move on, the captive would die, the artifact would find a different owner and so on.

Thankfully my players do not pull this kind of crap. They know they don't need to rest until they're out of healing surges.
Long Live Dragonlance and the Nexus! I still want an athasian nightmare beast and a warforged dragon mini! "Look, Meat, I'll tear your face off, rip your throat out and eat what's left-because that's what I do to food like you." ~Thrikreen Intimidation Tactic.
My Custom 4th edition Content (New Content:0)
* My Personal 4e Darksun Material found below: Currently updating.
unless he was critically low on surges, he'd keep going, because he's crazy motivated.


Bah, when you're out of surges isn't when you take an extended rest. That's when things get interesting. [/Kenpachi]
(It certainly makes fighting Wights as a Deva more fun; "3 necrotic damage and you lose a surge"
"Resist 6 necrotic and I don't have any surges "). 



I am fairly sure that if you don't have any surges when you are hit by an attack that causes you to lose surges you take damage equal to your surge value.
Try this.

Next time the party goes into a dungeon only to stop after the first room have another group show up and press on while they rest. by the time they are done resting the other party will have defeated the boss and taken all the treasure. Have the other party chuckle as they pass your group on the way out and make fun of them for sleeping in a dungeon.

Nothing says a town only hires one group to complete a quest. they only need to pay the one that finishes it.

Shame them into manning up. 



Heh, I didnt think of that one - I'll have to add that to the list of solutions I posted before.
If players are abusing extended rests, then as a DM I'd make things happen.  If they don't retreat, then they get ambushed at night.  If they do retreat, then rooms refill with reinforcements or traps.  I see no need to make encounters excessively difficult, but make it clear that their lack of action is making their life more difficult.

Perhaps the BBEG flees, or they fail quests, or treasure is lost, or entrances collapsed, but it's important not to punish the players as a consequence of making bad choices.  It's alright if bad choices have bad consequences, but there's no reason to punish players.  Failing quests is punishment in itself.  Having to track down the BBEG all over again -- when he'll be better prepared -- is punishment enough.
Few people can see genius in someone who has offended them. -- Robertson Davies
Try this.

...

Shame them into manning up. 

Exactly. 

Remind them that they're big damn heroes and they ought to start acting like it.  Do they want to be awesome or do they want to "win?"  If they want to win, might be time to try a different game where you keep score and don't care about getting the girl, killing the baddies, and saving the entire planet. 

Or like, you know, follow all of the other excellent advice in this thread...


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