4/8/2010 TD: "It Doesn't Even Matter"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Top Decks, which goes live Thursday morning on magicthegathering.com.
$50 Mythic?
$3 Mythic?

Combo with Shrieking Drake?
Ah, so this feeling is the shock, awe, and disappointment that white players had when seeing Baneslayer Angel.

Had to be mythic...
Didn't even notice that it was a mythic until you mentioned it. Wow, that's a real slap in the face. Are they gonna make Bloodghast mythic next?

I like this guy. He reminds me of an old favorite of mine, Masked Admirers. However I don't think bringing him back is as easy as Flores makes it sound, except in conjunction with those four drops he mentioned. Otherwise you're not really getting card advantage if you have to overextend all over again.

Oh I should also mention that I am thrilled to see green get some more haste. I love that ability.

I want to use this in a casual deck, maybe something with Buried Alive or even Survival of the Fittest if people consider it to be 'fair' enough. Survival drops four of these into your graveyard for just four mana while bringing you another creature to help meet the condition.

One final thing... every time I see a card that has something to do with creatures being destroyed, going to the graveyard, or being in the graveyard, it just makes me hate Path to Exile even more. What's the point of Magic if white mages continually spoil all your fun?
I feel like this would be great in eldrazi green as like a two of. But just remember Path to Exile maybe cycleing in as little bit so this will probably get better
yummm, love.turn one birds, turn 2 Buried alive for three of these suckers..turn 3 cast the fourth take 20  mwahahahahaha
I like fun, but competitive decks. So I might not play what is optimal but they have normally been tested to have a 2/3 winrate.
Ah, so this feeling is the shock, awe, and disappointment that white players had when seeing Baneslayer Angel.

Had to be mythic...

Ditto.  The Mythics should be the cards that are very cool but not automatic four-ofs in the decks that play them.  This is the kind of card that makes me feel bad to play Constructed Magic, because I won't have any unless I'm really lucky in Sealed/Draft.
Thanks to everyone who helped with the design of the plane of Golamo in the Great Designer Search 2!
My Decks
These are the decks I have assembled at the moment:
Tournament Decks (4)
Kicker Aggro (Invasion Block) Sunforger/Izzet Guildmage Midrange (Ravnica/Time Spiral/Xth Standard) Dragonstorm Combo (Time Spiral/Lorwyn/Xth Standard) Bant Midrange (Lorwyn/Shards/M10 Standard)
Casual Multiplayer Decks (50)
Angel Resurrection Casual Soul Sisters Sindbad's Adventures with Djinn of Wishes Sphinx-Bone Wand Buyback Morph (No Instants or Sorceries) Cabal Coffers Control Zombie Aggro Hungry, Hungry Greater Gargadon/War Elemental Flashfires/Boil/Ruination - Boom! Call of the Wild Teysa, Orzhov Scion with Twilight Drover, Sun Titan, and Hivestone Slivers Rebels Cairn Wanderer Knights Only Gold and () Spells Captain Sisay Toolbox Spellweaver Helix Combo Merfolk Wizards Izzet Guildmage/The Unspeakable Arcane Combo Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and his Wizards Creatureless Wild Research/Reins of Power Madness Creatureless Pyromancer Ascension Anarchist Living Death Anvil of Bogardan Madness Shamen with Goblin Game/Wound Reflection Combo Mass damage Quest for Pure Flame Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle/Clear the Land with 40+ Lands Doubling Season Thallids Juniper Order Ranger Graft/Tokens Elf Archer Druids Equilibrium/Aluren Combo Experiment Kraj Combo Reap Combo False Cure/Kavu Predator Combo Savra, Queen of the Golgari Sacrifice/Dredge Elf Warriors Eight-Post Sneak Attack Where Ancients Tread Zur the Enchanter with Opal creatures Tamanoa/Kavu Predator/Collapsing Borders Esper Aggro Mishra, Artificer Prodigy and his Darksteel Reactor Theft and Control Unearth Aggro Soul's Fire Vampires Devour Tokens Phytohydra with Powerstone Minefield Treefolk Friendly? Questing Phelddagrif Slivers Dragon Arch Fun I'm probably forgetting a few...

Didn't even notice that it was a mythic until you mentioned it. 



Wow.  Yeah.
Sweet card, I always like hasty green guys. I like how this is good against sweepers/removal if you are intelligent, and just forces you to overextend again if you're not. Should be fun.

Mythic makes no sense here though. I disapprove Money mouthMoney mouth
Wow this is my favorite spoiled card so far, but by the look of the presales I wont be getting a full set unless I get really lucky on my pulls.
At least this is more Mythic than last week's card was.  Doesn't look crazy broken, but nice power and practically ideal for green.

As for the article:
Image.ashx?multiverseid=4441&type=card

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

Doom_Blade_Guy is awesome! "Nothing brightens up an otherwise miserable day like destroying target nonblack creature." And so on. His Smother comment made me laugh out loud. The link is at the start of the article and I totally recommend it.

Wait, MYTHIC? I missed that too. But he does nothing that couldn't happen at rare.? Well, he does have haste and self-revival. Therefore he should've costed 2BB since both abilities are at least partially black. So color pie bending = mythic? Well... meh? Look at Wall of Omens.

One final thing... every time I see a card that has something to do with creatures being destroyed, going to the graveyard, or being in the graveyard, it just makes me hate Path to Exile even more. What's the point of Magic if white mages continually spoil all your fun?

In every game of Magic, put yourself in your opponent's shoes. If you're being competitive and trying to win then think about what spells they might be holding. If you're being casual, then consider your opponent. I mean consider them personally. Be nice.

Imagine we're playing a casual game. I hardcast Ulamog the Indestructable. You play an Icy Manipulator with mana to spare. Then you tap Ulamog every turn at the start of my combat phase. Is that unfun? You're preventing me from using my awesome creature. But that's exactly the point. Getting run over by your opponent while you have no answers is unfun.

The beauty of Magic is that you can play answer cards against your opponent.  Answer cards are cards that do nothing* for yourself, like PtE and Icy. When I think back over all the CCGs I've ever played, they all lack prominent answer cards. (Or the ability to play effects/cards on your opponent's turn at all!) Usually the best you could do to foil your opponent was to attack one specific card in play. (Everything outside of Magic has provoke, it seems.) But in Magic you can just BAM Doom Blade that ugly thing. (Ask JustTerrorIt!) And if it's an instant/sorcery then you can Cancel it or remove its targets. This is awesome! Getting automatically pwned in the face by every Vengevine and Bloodghast you see is not awesome. (Sideboarded Relic of Progenitus...)


Ouch Mythic... I will have a hard time getting 4 off them !!!

Best art of the whole set, yep !!

awesome card, will see lots of play..and it looks pretty !
Man I wish I had the balls to just quit playing Standard.  I keep buying the chase cards before they go up in price to save money (usually only having 1-2 days after spoiling), but then never end up playing because Standard never gets better.  Who cares if I saved $100 on my Baneslayers if I never use them.

I went through the pre-release cards and found so few Rares that I am excited about.  And the Rares I do like are just marginally okay.  For cards I really like all there are is Mythics and a single Uncommon.
The art is gorgeous, and its a decent card too. Its also an Elemental, so it would fit into one of my casual decks.

Too bad its mythic, I probably won't be getting any.
Oh my gosh!

First: It's the typical 'abuse me' card. It's free and it has haste...
Second: It's far away from being broken. It feels like a reprint of Demigod of Revenge. However, the last one had the right power for a 4x5=20 kill, but was quite secure, because you have to cast one.

I doubt this will be used in combination with the Brroodbraid Elf, because it's still weaker than the typical Blightning combo. It has a non-synergetic condition (you have to play many low cost creature spells to put into play a high cost haste creature). It has the wrong color: This is definetly either multicolor-red (f.e. ). How many green creatures return from graveyard to play, can attack and stay in play??? Last but not least, it should have been a Plant Elemental.

I still like Bloodghast more than this.
Am I one of the few that is not that impressed?

Pro's
1. Great art
2. Great flavor text
3. 4/3 haste is always good
4. A 4/3 haste that can be recurred by playing dudes is better

Con's
1. Dumb name. Venevine? Seriously?
2. It's Mythic. A 4/3 haste that can be recurred by casting TWO creatures in a turn is not mythic. The Bloodbraid into Thrinax or getting 3-4 of them into the graveyard and getting them all back for a one turn kill is cute but how often will that happen in reality? Remember all the carzy scenarios that revolved around Lotus Cobra? How'd that work out?
3. Just another creature that will make you over commit resources to the battelfield as you have to case TWO creatures in a turn to get him back.

Oh, well. I have always hated the mythic rarity anyway and this just re-inforces that for me.

My first thought:  "Hey, I can't get rid of that stuff in my lawn either!"

Seriously, though - awesome card.  This and the White Wall of Blossoms are my favorite cards in the set.


1. Dumb name. Venevine? Seriously?



I think you misread it - it makes more sense if you see that it's "Vengevine".
I like the card, but I don't like the name (makes it sound like something from Ben 10 or Power Rangers) or the rarity (looks like being potentially too much of a tourney card for mythicness).


As one of the people who likes to mention that creatures are vulnerable to kill, I feel the need to defend myself: the fact that creatures die to removal is a good thing and it does not make creatures inherently weak. Or rather it does, and that's good for the game - it doesn't make them inherently not worth playing. Of course Baneslayer Angel is an excellent card, and of course it is absolutely worth playing. My problem is with the people who whinge that it's unbeatable. Really? Cause I count over ten commons in M10 alone which 1-for-1 it. That's not including uncommons and rares, stacking multiple damage spells, and all the other sets in standard. If losing to it is really that much of a problem for you, why not invest in some Doom Blades? It'll cost you the grand total of what, twenty pence? Some players will complain at length about cards they dislike but are not willing to look for solutions. Well boo hoo, princess. It's when people like THAT are pissing me off that I bring up the 'dies to removal' thing.

This is probably my favorite card of the set. Like everyone else I wish this was a rare instead of a mythic because I usually only get somewhere between 5 and 10 mythics per set based on the amount of boosters I buy per set. So even if I get one I will only have 1.


It does look like it should be a plant however those kinds of things never bother me.

@ JtP73:

Name - Vengevine is a fine name that is definately not a con when evaluating this card. If it was Venevine I think it would be ok but vengevine makes me think "plant vengance" not a bad picture to draw from a name.

Mythicness - as much as I wish this and the dragonlord were not mythic they've pretty much said that any card with cool points that does something new and awesome is going to be mythic. Like you I think it would be way cooler as a rare and I would enjoy the awesomeness of the card a lot more but I can almost see their point on this one.

Over committing - This will likely be played in decks that are already at risk of overcommitting like Eldrazi green because he lessens the drawback to overcommitting. If he doesn't fit into any of the current decks like jund or boros bushwhacker then he'll likely find his way into other decklists.

Don't be too smart to have fun
I like this card a lot.

I particularly like the interaction with Momentous Fall.  Draw four cards and gain 3 life,  then likely be in good shape to bring him back.
Well, I've been saying this since Mythics were first announced, and I think it bears repeating here:

The most important thing for Mythics is to keep their desireability constant across the set.  If there's one Mythic we all want and the rest are garbage, then it will easily start going for $50.  But if every Mythic was just that desireable, then every one of them will be cheaper.  (They can't all be worth $50 each or you'd make $3 every time you opened a pack.)

Alara Reborn was great.  Several of the Mythics were playable but none were must-haves.  Maelstrom Pulse is a chase card but it's "only" a rare.

Zendikar turned out to be good.  There was reasonable concern over Lotus Cobra but it's not as broken as they wanted ust to think, so everything was pretty balanced.  Monument, Iona, Cobra, Nissa, Ob Nix, Warren Instigator, and Sorin all split duty.

Worldwake was a bad set.  Jace is the only Mythic you really want, with honorable mentions Abyssal and Omnath not really contributing to set value.

So either Reborn (no great Mythics) or Zendikar (lots of decent Mythics) are reasonable stances for them to take.  So fare we've got 14 previewed (shown below) and I honestly don't know, it's hard to judge.  Level up and Eldrazi guys are hard to predict right now.  But my gut is telling me this will be a Zendikar-type of power balance, where they sometimes don't feel Mythic but the prices don't get out of control.



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If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

I think that Vengevine is sufficiently capable of creating explosive plays to be mythic.  To me it doesn't matter how much money it costs as long as the total prices of the decks it goes in aren't too high.

But it does need a more mythic concept.  Nothing about a medium-sized elemental with a generic name suggests that it's rare on Zendikar.
A thought process...

It looks like an essential card, exciting! Oh, nooooooo it's R1 (can't bring myself to use the smarketing term "mythic"). It's going to be min £25 here in the UK, and as a 4-of that means £100 just for 4 tickets to be able to play Magic like I did before the new set came out. What an mug I am to enjoy this game. Depression sets in.
Reprint this at rare in M11 please. Kthxbi.
I love how wizards holds to their word about the reserve list, but spits in the face of the promise that mythics would be "something that feels very special and unique" not be "Utility cards, what I'll define as cards that fill a universal function" mid-costing efficient beater with low "wow" factor that goes in a variety of decks is not mythic.

Good article, though. Short, but not much to say about the card. Which kind of speaks to the non-mythicness of it...
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My first thought:  "Hey, I can't get rid of that stuff in my lawn either!"

Seriously, though - awesome card.  This and the White Wall of Blossoms are my favorite cards in the set.


1. Dumb name. Venevine? Seriously?



I think you misread it - it makes more sense if you see that it's "Vengevine".



Just a typo. Forgot the g. Vengevine just sounds like a Pokemon name to me. Oh well.
I love how wizards holds to their word about the reserve list, but spits in the face of the promise that mythics would be "something that feels very special and unique" not be "Utility cards, what I'll define as cards that fill a universal function" mid-costing efficient beater with low "wow" factor that goes in a variety of decks is not mythic.

Good article, though. Short, but not much to say about the card. Which kind of speaks to the non-mythicness of it...



Well said. I still hate the mythic rarity and Vengevine is definitely not Mythic feeling. And a card like this is a must have 4 of to play effectively in a deck. V was already preselling at $15 this morning and is now approaching $20 in some places. 9 of the 14 mythics spoiled are already preselling at $10+ just by hype alone, which is sad.  Oh well, what can you do?

PS. pretty much all targeted removal kills this guy, which we know, but don't forget graveyard hate will become more useful if V becomes popular. Oh, 3 vengevines in your graveyard? I'll just get rid of your yard. Go..
I love how wizards holds to their word about the reserve list, but spits in the face of the promise that mythics would be "something that feels very special and unique" not be "Utility cards, what I'll define as cards that fill a universal function" mid-costing efficient beater with low "wow" factor that goes in a variety of decks is not mythic.

Good article, though. Short, but not much to say about the card. Which kind of speaks to the non-mythicness of it...


This a utility card? Um, what?
WHAT?!  Yet another card that makes Bloodbraid Elf more dumb and broken?! 

A very nice card indeed, look forward to seeing if he can shake standard up eventually, maybe after a cycle or so. 
Well, I've been saying this since Mythics were first announced, and I think it bears repeating here:

The most important thing for Mythics is to keep their desireability constant across the set.  If there's one Mythic we all want and the rest are garbage, then it will easily start going for $50.  But if every Mythic was just that desireable, then every one of them will be cheaper.  (They can't all be worth $50 each or you'd make $3 every time you opened a pack.)

Alara Reborn was great.  Several of the Mythics were playable but none were must-haves.  Maelstrom Pulse is a chase card but it's "only" a rare.

Zendikar turned out to be good.  There was reasonable concern over Lotus Cobra but it's not as broken as they wanted ust to think, so everything was pretty balanced.  Monument, Iona, Cobra, Nissa, Ob Nix, Warren Instigator, and Sorin all split duty.

Worldwake was a bad set.  Jace is the only Mythic you really want, with honorable mentions Abyssal and Omnath not really contributing to set value.

So either Reborn (no great Mythics) or Zendikar (lots of decent Mythics) are reasonable stances for them to take.  So fare we've got 14 previewed (shown below) and I honestly don't know, it's hard to judge.  Level up and Eldrazi guys are hard to predict right now.  But my gut is telling me this will be a Zendikar-type of power balance, where they sometimes don't feel Mythic but the prices don't get out of control.


Note that Mythics, Rares, and Uncommons actually all share the value of the set.  What saved the Zendikar Mythic prices was not so much their balanced value, but instead a combination of high value rares (fetch lands) and none of the Mythics seeing all that much play in the best decks.

Anyway, you're right, if Wizards prints lots of good Rares and Mythics, none of them will skyrocket too high (or rather, they may start high, but they'll rapidly come into better balance).  That was a key factor in controlling prices in sets like Ravnica and Lorwyn.  On the other hand, that means that not everyone is playing the same decks - and so fewer cards get sold (if you're playing the best Red cards and I'm playing the best White cards, that only sells half as much Magic as when we're both playing the best Red cards).  It's a tradeoff for Wizards - reasonable singles prices, and a variety of decks (making the game more fun and possibly expanding the player base), versus selling more packs to any given quantity of players.

Thanks to everyone who helped with the design of the plane of Golamo in the Great Designer Search 2!
My Decks
These are the decks I have assembled at the moment:
Tournament Decks (4)
Kicker Aggro (Invasion Block) Sunforger/Izzet Guildmage Midrange (Ravnica/Time Spiral/Xth Standard) Dragonstorm Combo (Time Spiral/Lorwyn/Xth Standard) Bant Midrange (Lorwyn/Shards/M10 Standard)
Casual Multiplayer Decks (50)
Angel Resurrection Casual Soul Sisters Sindbad's Adventures with Djinn of Wishes Sphinx-Bone Wand Buyback Morph (No Instants or Sorceries) Cabal Coffers Control Zombie Aggro Hungry, Hungry Greater Gargadon/War Elemental Flashfires/Boil/Ruination - Boom! Call of the Wild Teysa, Orzhov Scion with Twilight Drover, Sun Titan, and Hivestone Slivers Rebels Cairn Wanderer Knights Only Gold and () Spells Captain Sisay Toolbox Spellweaver Helix Combo Merfolk Wizards Izzet Guildmage/The Unspeakable Arcane Combo Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind and his Wizards Creatureless Wild Research/Reins of Power Madness Creatureless Pyromancer Ascension Anarchist Living Death Anvil of Bogardan Madness Shamen with Goblin Game/Wound Reflection Combo Mass damage Quest for Pure Flame Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle/Clear the Land with 40+ Lands Doubling Season Thallids Juniper Order Ranger Graft/Tokens Elf Archer Druids Equilibrium/Aluren Combo Experiment Kraj Combo Reap Combo False Cure/Kavu Predator Combo Savra, Queen of the Golgari Sacrifice/Dredge Elf Warriors Eight-Post Sneak Attack Where Ancients Tread Zur the Enchanter with Opal creatures Tamanoa/Kavu Predator/Collapsing Borders Esper Aggro Mishra, Artificer Prodigy and his Darksteel Reactor Theft and Control Unearth Aggro Soul's Fire Vampires Devour Tokens Phytohydra with Powerstone Minefield Treefolk Friendly? Questing Phelddagrif Slivers Dragon Arch Fun I'm probably forgetting a few...
Well, I've been saying this since Mythics were first announced, and I think it bears repeating here:

The most important thing for Mythics is to keep their desireability constant across the set.  If there's one Mythic we all want and the rest are garbage, then it will easily start going for $50.  But if every Mythic was just that desireable, then every one of them will be cheaper.  (They can't all be worth $50 each or you'd make $3 every time you opened a pack.)

Alara Reborn was great.  Several of the Mythics were playable but none were must-haves.  Maelstrom Pulse is a chase card but it's "only" a rare.

Zendikar turned out to be good.  There was reasonable concern over Lotus Cobra but it's not as broken as they wanted ust to think, so everything was pretty balanced.  Monument, Iona, Cobra, Nissa, Ob Nix, Warren Instigator, and Sorin all split duty.

Worldwake was a bad set.  Jace is the only Mythic you really want, with honorable mentions Abyssal and Omnath not really contributing to set value.

So either Reborn (no great Mythics) or Zendikar (lots of decent Mythics) are reasonable stances for them to take.  So fare we've got 14 previewed (shown below) and I honestly don't know, it's hard to judge.  Level up and Eldrazi guys are hard to predict right now.  But my gut is telling me this will be a Zendikar-type of power balance, where they sometimes don't feel Mythic but the prices don't get out of control.

You make good points, but ultimately, the factor you mention has little weight compared to the staple-ness of a given mythic. Zendikar Mythics all kept a reasonable price tag mainly because none are constructed staples, even the three planeswalkers. Jace is an expensive card because it is a staple, that any blue control deck can use to great effect in almost every format. Gideon Jura will end up being worth much more than any other card in the set because it's a powerful, flexible, staple planeswalker. I doubt the other rares around him will do much to keep his value in check, but I could be wrong.

An other factor is how much a given set is gonna get opened. Typically, the fall big set gets opened in good quantities for much longer than any other set of the year, if only becauses it's required more for draft. The number of copies of Gideon in circulation should be lower than the one of any Zendikar Mythic. It will be higher than the number of Jaces though, because we will have been drafting Worldwake at one pack per draft for only three months, and we'll be drafting RoE at 3 packs per draft for likely a little more than 3 months (core set drafts tend to not stop people from drafting the previous non-core format). In the end, I expect Gideon to stabilize at around Elspeth-like prices (around 40). We'll see !
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Intuition for three Vengevines? I don't think anyone would realistically do that.

Orzhova Witness

Restarting Quotes Block
58086748 wrote:
58335208 wrote:
Disregard women acquire chase rares.
There are a lot of dudes for whom this is not optional.
97820278 wrote:
144532521 wrote:
How;s a 2 drop 1/2, Flying broken? What am I missing?
You're missing it because *turns Storm Crows sideways* all your base are belong to Chuck Norris and every other overused meme ever.
Hmmmm... I think that some people are a little too star-struck by this card, which is understandable since it was just recently officially released. It does look like a good Jund card.


My first reaction to this card was "Neat, will see constructed play"... then... "What a stupid generic name?"... then... "Wait a second, why the hell is this thing MYTHIC?!"

Yell



Brokeness? Plz.

Anyone who is looking to break this card will already be abusing Demi More who obviously possesses more potential, powerful,  and already is the stapleiest of staples in a proven tournament deck (All-In Red pwnage, much?).

Now - answer me this question. Why is it that I can get a Demi for $5 tops and this mofo is $15 presale?

Disgusting mythic rarity status is disgusting. Money mouth

Look me in the steamingly angry and even slightly reddish colored face and tell me Demi isn't pretty much strictly better than this pile of tentacilly shrubbery (not to mention "cooler", and radiants an obviously much more epic feeling). Given this, I would still not change the rarity of Demi if it was up to me (just like some other recent cards  - *sigh*). At the very least they are comparable in power-level depending on what deck they are in (and that's a shameful understatement). 

Never would I have ever thought that a simple jump in rarity status would lead to such a ridiculous perdictament. Not to mention the purely "averageness" of all the levelers I've seen so far which don't come close to the level of power the original had. Though argumentatively comparable, as some seem to believe the cards are, these new levelers somehow warrant special mythicalness. Disgusting.




Much like the other posters who have said so before this post... I want to know what happened to the promises of giving mythical level treatment. Quite a few cards seemingly deserve the mythic status and rightfully so. But there are a metric s**t-ton of them that just don't deserve it, including this one.

I like this card, my inner spike is digging it... but seriously I get no "special feeling" radiating from this card that merits mythic status. I (along with how many hundreds of others?) would very much like to hear what Rosewater (or others?) have to say about the direction mythic rarity is taking. A simple and honest "We did it for the lulz secondary market and lots of moneys!!!!!!1one " would be fine but ignoring this issue is starting to really get me pissed.

Whatever.



TL;DR?   Short Version = Epic Mythic Fail.

Now - answer me this question. Why is it that I can get a Demi for $5 tops and this mofo is $15 presale?



Standard.

I do agree that the selection of mythics in this set is questionable. Pretty much ever card that is slightly interesting got promoted from rare. They are no closer to getting mythics right than when they introduced the concept.
Note that Mythics, Rares, and Uncommons actually all share the value of the set.

True, except that the rarest card with high desireability will be the cost driver.  And while everything else shares value, if they are opened up as a side effect of something else that keep their cost down.  But you're completely right, willing buyers for Fetchlands helped subsidize Zendikar drafts when the Mythics weren't super hot.  Just like all those Bloodbraid Elves helped in ARB.

Although that does lead to asking why Jace is so high when the Worldwake manlands at rare are pretty desireable.  It's safe to say he'd be higher if not for those duals, but they certainly haven't kept him cheap.

On the other hand, that means that not everyone is playing the same decks - and so fewer cards get sold (if you're playing the best Red cards and I'm playing the best White cards, that only sells half as much Magic as when we're both playing the best Red cards).  It's a tradeoff for Wizards - reasonable singles prices, and a variety of decks (making the game more fun and possibly expanding the player base), versus selling more packs to any given quantity of players.

I see what you're saying.  Consider 5 friends, each has a different favorite color and only plays cards that color.  They'll never want the same thing so 4x of the set covers 5 people.  Then compare that to 5 friends who all want Baneslayers for their decks.  Even if the decks are different, they need up to 20x of the set opened to cover their need for Baneslayers.

However, I think the first model is unrealistic even given balance just because people want more than 1 deck.  Especially serious tournament players (who set the market anyway).  So if I have $300 to spend I could get 4x Jace and Colonnade from WWK and make one deck, plus a bunch of junk I'll never really use.  Or I could get 4x Sorin, Cobra, Nissa, Monument, Iona, and Fetches from  Zendikar and make several different decks.  In this model I haven't required fewer packs, but I have gotten more value.


The statistical truth is somewhere in between, as not everyone will build every deck and across the market that will balance out.  But still I think R&D has a clear option: sell packs because you are providing consistent value, or sell packs because people will dig through crap to get one gem?  I don't like businesses that I feel are trying to rip me off.  Even if I deal with them for a while, I'll be looking for outs and that's not the kind of customer they want.

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

You make good points, but ultimately, the factor you mention has little weight compared to the staple-ness of a given mythic. Zendikar Mythics all kept a reasonable price tag mainly because none are constructed staples, even the three planeswalkers. Jace is an expensive card because it is a staple, that any blue control deck can use to great effect in almost every format.

Right but my point is there's no reason to design toward "the one staple" arrangement.  Suppose we do a Fact Or Fiction like split.  The cost is $60, and you can take one of these piles:
A)  Jace, Mind Scuptor
B) Eldrazi Monument; Felidar Sovereign; Iona, Shield of Emeria; Lotus Cobra; Mindbreak Trap; Nissa Revane; Ob Nixilis, the Fallen, Rampaging Baloths; Sorin Markov

Jace gets more use than any one, but more use than all 9 put together?  Sure you have good coverage with a "staple" Jace.  But you also have good coverage with an array of cheaper cards.  Both encourage me to open packs or buy from someone who has.  But the latter creates a much better feeling and sense of value.

In other words, if Wrexial, the Risen Deep had been Tarmogoyf and Avenger of Zendikar had been Baneslayer Angel, we'd be tripping over ourselves to open more Worldwake and they wouldn't be able to keep it in stock, and yet the singles prices for any of them would be lower.  I don't see how this is worse for them except that it burdens R&D to keep making good cards instead of intentionally printing weak things to save good ideas for later.  (Which they have admitted doing.)

And that's my point.  Rather than "one staple and a pile of junk" which the might get away with, they could print "an array of equally desireable cards" which we are happy to go buy.

An other factor is how much a given set is gonna get opened.

True, but irrelevant to what I was saying.  There will always be a first, middle, and last set.  But they don't have to design around chase mythics.  A fair point on it's own though, and you may well be right about Gideon's eventual price.

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

Another card that the Wizards have pedicted to be format staples, and so have bumped it up to mythic. 
I think Vengevine is a pretty cool guy, eh is mythic for no reason and doesn't afraid of anything
I think Vengevine is a pretty cool guy, eh is mythic for no reason and doesn't afraid of anything


OMG click HERE! OMG! How to autocard and use decklist format
--->
For autocarding, write [c][/c] with the name of the card inside it. [c]Island[/c] = Island For linking a card to Gatherer without writting the name of said card for readers, use the autocard brackets together with and equal sign and right the name of the real card. Then put the message you want inside the tags, like you would do with autocarding. Like this: [c=Curse of the Cabal]Captain Never-resolves[/c] = Captain Never-resolves For using the decklist format, follow this: [deck] 4* Terramorphic Expanse 4* Evolving Wilds ... [/deck] It equals:
Real signature, Sblocked for space:
57817638 wrote:
I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
Listen to my SoundCloud while you read my signature. The Island, Come And See, The Landlord's Daughter, You'll Not Feel The Drowning - The Decemberists by vimschy IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/rkvR.gif)IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/L3es.gif) IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/m71H.gif)
Quotes
56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!