How does the druid "Fire Hawk" power work?

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The trigger for the secondary attack is that the target "takes any action that can provoke opportunity attacks."

I'm not sure how to interpret this...is it...

1.  The target takes an action that does provoke from either an ally or yourself
2.  The target takes an action that, under the right circumstances, would provoke from an ally or yourself--regardless of whether or not the right circumstances are met
3.  Other?

Thanks so much for your help!
"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23
I'm interpreting it as 'If there were an enemy near the opponent, and he would do something that would provoke an opportunity attack, you can use the Fire Hawk attack on it'.  Which is probably a long-winded way of saying nothing.

Since the Fire Hawk isn't a summon, an enemy can't provoke an OA from it.  I think maybe they thought the phrase 'provokes an OA' might mean that you can only use the Fire Hawk if someone is there to take the attack.

So, I think 2; if the enemy would provoke an OA if someone were there to take the attack, you can use Fire Hawk on it.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Thanks Salla!  So if that interpretation is correct then...

if the target moves without shifting, makes a ranged attack, or makes an area attack, even if none of its enemies are adjacent to it, the druid's secondary attack is triggered.

Is that right?
"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23
Thanks Salla!  So if that interpretation is correct then...

if the target moves without shifting, makes a ranged attack, or makes an area attack, even if none of its enemies are adjacent to it, the druid's secondary attack is triggered.

Is that right?



That's the way I'm interpreting it, at least.  I can't necessarily say it's 'correct', but it makes the most sense to me.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Ok, thanks.  If it's the correct interpretation, I think that's a very nice power.
"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23
There's been alot of debate on this.

The other interpritation is that it has to actually provoke an OA (a.k.a. you need an ally adjacent), but since that makes the power kinda useless no one likes it.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

There's been alot of debate on this.

The other interpritation is that it has to actually provoke an OA (a.k.a. you need an ally adjacent), but since that makes the power kinda useless no one likes it.



That's why I think the power's trigger is 'takes an action that can provoke' rather than just saying 'provokes'.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
The trigger for the secondary attack is that the target "takes any action that can provoke opportunity attacks."

I'm not sure how to interpret this...is it...

1.  The target takes an action that does provoke from either an ally or yourself
2.  The target takes an action that, under the right circumstances, would provoke from an ally or yourself--regardless of whether or not the right circumstances are met
3.  Other?

Thanks so much for your help!



Any action that *CAN* provoke an OA does so from the Fire Hawk.

Basically, for every action the target takes, check to see if that *could* provoke an OA from someone.

If it could, it provokes Fire Hawk, exactly as if the Fire Hawk was an adjacent enemy.

Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
The trigger for the secondary attack is that the target "takes any action that can provoke opportunity attacks."

I'm not sure how to interpret this...is it...

1.  The target takes an action that does provoke from either an ally or yourself
2.  The target takes an action that, under the right circumstances, would provoke from an ally or yourself--regardless of whether or not the right circumstances are met
3.  Other?

Thanks so much for your help!



Any action that *CAN* provoke an OA does so from the Fire Hawk.

Basically, for every action the target takes, check to see if that *could* provoke an OA from someone.

If it could, it provokes Fire Hawk, exactly as if the Fire Hawk was an adjacent enemy.




I think your emphasis on can and your addition of "from someone" are slightly at odds.

If a creature is in the middle of a room and moves a square, that is an action that can provoke an AO. But if no one is adjacent/has threatening reach/etc, it wouldn't be provoking an AO.

So are you saying moving without shifting/teleporting/etc triggers the secondary attack or that there must be a valid enemy that could take an OA? If that enemy had already taken its OA on this turn, would that invalidate the Fire Hawk?

I'm inclined to think the Fire Hawk can trigger in the absence of an enemy that could make the AO. Specifically, a creature in isolation, in range of the Fire Hawk, using a Ranged power would satisfy the trigger. 
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
I think your emphasis on can and your addition of "from someone" are slightly at odds.

If a creature is in the middle of a room and moves a square, that is an action that can provoke an AO. But if no one is adjacent/has threatening reach/etc, it wouldn't be provoking an AO.



But, given a creature in the right position, it *could* provoke.  Since the action *can* provoke, it does provoke from Fire Hawk.

So are you saying moving without shifting/teleporting/etc triggers the secondary attack or that there must be a valid enemy that could take an OA? If that enemy had already taken its OA on this turn, would that invalidate the Fire Hawk?



Moving without Shifting/Teleporting *could* provoke, so it provokes from Fire Hawk.  This is not even a remotely extreme interpretation.

I'm inclined to think the Fire Hawk can trigger in the absence of an enemy that could make the AO. Specifically, a creature in isolation, in range of the Fire Hawk, using a Ranged power would satisfy the trigger. 



That's what Fire Hawk *says* happens, so that's what happens.

Anything that *could* provoke an OA from a "real enemy" provokes from Fire Hawk.

Confused about Stealth? Think "invisibility" means "take the mini off the board to make people guess?" You need to check out The Rules Of Hidden Club.
Damage types and resistances: A working house rule.
OK, that's what I thought you were saying but you keep adding caveats that I think complicate it. =) We're in agreement, just a matter of semantics.
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
Moving without Shifting/Teleporting *could* provoke, so it provokes from Fire Hawk.  This is not even a remotely extreme interpretation.

Moving without shifting/teleporting doesn't provoke.  An enemy leaving a square adjacent to you without shifting/teleporting provokes.

Using a ranged power doesn't provoke.  An adjacent enemy using a ranged power provokes.

Actions can provoke opportunity attacks only in the context of who is near to the person acting.  As written, Fire Hawk lets you make another attack if your target were to move without shifting/teleporting or use a ranged power (or take a similar action) while it is adjacent to an enemy, whether or not that enemy actually takes an opportunity attack of its own.

If the power wanted to say "Special: You gain threatening reach 10 for purposes of determining whether you can use the secondary attack", it would have been pretty easy to say that, as would something like "Trigger: The target takes any action that would provoke an opportunity attack if you were adjacent to it."

That's the real problem.  Someone moving while not adjacent to anyone else is simply not an "action that can provoke opportunity attacks", but rather an action that would provoke an opportunity attack if you were adjacent to it, and those are two different concepts.

I think it's a fine house rule to read the power as using wording like this instead, but that's just not what the power says.

Using a ranged power doesn't provoke.  An adjacent enemy using a ranged power provokes.

Actions can provoke opportunity attacks only in the context of who is near to the person acting.  As written, Fire Hawk lets you make another attack if your target were to move without shifting/teleporting or use a ranged power (or take a similar action) while it is adjacent to an enemy, whether or not that enemy actually takes an opportunity attack of its own.

If the power wanted to say "Special: You gain threatening reach 10 for purposes of determining whether you can use the secondary attack", it would have been pretty easy to say that, as would something like "Trigger: The target takes any action that would provoke an opportunity attack if you were adjacent to it."

That's the real problem.  Someone moving while not adjacent to anyone else is simply not an "action that can provoke opportunity attacks", but rather an action that would provoke an opportunity attack if you were adjacent to it, and those are two different concepts.

I think it's a fine house rule to read the power as using wording like this instead, but that's just not what the power says.



That is what does provoke, not what can provoke.

Anytime you take a ranged/area attack, you could be provoking an OA.
Anytime you move without shifting/teleporting, you could be provoking an OA.

Do you? Maybe not.

If Fire Hawk said "an enemy takes an action that does provoke an OA" then you would have a point.
Really, it's not clear.
That is what does provoke, not what can provoke.

Anytime you take a ranged/area attack, you could be provoking an OA.
Anytime you move without shifting/teleporting, you could be provoking an OA.


If you shift you could be provoking an OA (viper strike)
If you don't move you could provoke an OA (such a power could concevibly exsist)
If you attack, you could provoke millions of OA's (you could be surrounded by lot's of tiny creatures)
and on the other side...
Walking can't provoke if no one is adjacent.

That said, i would play it the way the above suggested.

guides
List of no-action attacks.
Dynamic vs Static Bonuses
Phalanx tactics and builds
Crivens! A Pictsies Guide Good
Power
s to intentionally miss with
Mr. Cellophane: How to be unnoticed
Way's to fire around corners
Crits: what their really worth
Retroactive bonus vs Static bonus.
Runepriest handbook & discussion thread
Holy Symbols to hang around your neck
Ways to Gain or Downgrade Actions
List of bonuses to saving throws
The Ghost with the Most (revenant handbook)
my builds
F-111 Interdictor Long (200+ squares) distance ally teleporter. With some warlord stuff. Broken in a plot way, not a power way.

Thought Switch Higher level build that grants upto 14 attacks on turn 1. If your allies play along, it's broken.

Elven Critters Crit op with crit generation. 5 of these will end anything. Broken.

King Fisher Optimized net user.  Moderate.

Boominator Fun catch-22 booming blade build with either strong or completely broken damage depending on your reading.

Very Distracting Warlock Lot's of dazing and major penalties to hit. Overpowered.

Pocket Protector Pixie Stealth Knight. Maximizing the defender's aura by being in an ally's/enemy's square.

Yakuza NinjIntimiAdin: Perma-stealth Striker that offers a little protection for ally's, and can intimidate bloodied enemies. Very Strong.

Chargeburgler with cheese Ranged attacks at the end of a charge along with perma-stealth. Solid, could be overpowered if tweaked.

Void Defender Defends giving a penalty to hit anyone but him, then removing himself from play. Can get somewhat broken in epic.

Scry and Die Attacking from around corners, while staying hidden. Moderate to broken, depending on the situation.

Skimisher Fly in, attack, and fly away. Also prevents enemies from coming close. Moderate to Broken depending on the enemy, but shouldn't make the game un-fun, as the rest of your team is at risk, and you have enough weaknesses.

Indestructible Simply won't die, even if you sleep though combat.  One of THE most abusive character in 4e.

Sir Robin (Bravely Charge Away) He automatically slows and pushes an enemy (5 squares), while charging away. Hard to rate it's power level, since it's terrain dependent.

Death's Gatekeeper A fun twist on a healic, making your party "unkillable". Overpowered to Broken, but shouldn't actually make the game un-fun, just TPK proof.

Death's Gatekeeper mk2, (Stealth Edition) Make your party "unkillable", and you hidden, while doing solid damage. Stronger then the above, but also easier for a DM to shut down. Broken, until your DM get's enough of it.

Domination and Death Dominate everything then kill them quickly. Only works @ 30, but is broken multiple ways.

Battlemind Mc Prone-Daze Protecting your allies by keeping enemies away. Quite powerful.

The Retaliator Getting hit deals more damage to the enemy then you receive yourself, and you can take plenty of hits. Heavy item dependency, Broken.

Dead Kobold Transit Teleports 98 squares a turn, and can bring someone along for the ride. Not fully built, so i can't judge the power.

Psilent Guardian Protect your allies, while being invisible. Overpowered, possibly broken.

Rune of Vengance Do lot's of damage while boosting your teams. Strong to slightly overpowered.

Charedent BarrageA charging ardent. Fine in a normal team, overpowered if there are 2 together, and easily broken in teams of 5.

Super Knight A tough, sticky, high damage knight. Strong.

Super Duper Knight Basically the same as super knight with items, making it far more broken.

Mora, the unkillable avenger Solid damage, while being neigh indestuctable. Overpowered, but not broken.

Swordburst Maximus At-Will Close Burst 3 that slide and prones. Protects allies with off actions. Strong, possibly over powered with the right party.

I'd say it works on any enemy which is performing an action that has the "Provokes Opportunity Attacks' line in its rules block.  Though I can easily see that being argued with.

I'd say it works on any enemy which is performing an action that has the "Provokes Opportunity Attacks' line in its rules block.  Though I can easily see that being argued with.






Not by me. That is the line of thinking I have brougth up before and never got any answer to.
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.


Here is a recent question I posed to CS.  While it doesn't specifically address Firehawk, it does concern the issue of provoking attacks of opportunity.

Question 1
On pg 268 of the PHB under Opportunity Actions, it states that "Opportunity actions allow you to take an action in response to an enemy letting its guard down." It doesn't clarify what letting its guard down would include, it just explains the opportunity attack that all combatants can take and the criteria for taking one.

On pg 290 of the PHB under Opportunity Attacks, it states that "Moving Provokes: (explanation of how you can take an opportunity attack)" and "Ranged and Area Powers Provoke: (explanation of how you can take an opportunity attack)"


1. My question is this, Does Moving(not including shift, teleport, or forced movement) and/or Using a Ranged/Area Power satisfy the trigger condition for and enemy letting its guard down for an Opportunity Action?

A. I'm not sure if I fully understand your question. The actions described that will trigger an attack of opportunity, are just the basic examples. They'll always trigger an attack of opportunity, unless the power says it doesn't or depending on the scenario and the DM decides that it doesn't make sense. There are other reasons for why a creature would let it's guard down, but those will be entirely up to the DM.


Question 2:


I think you answered it just fine, but just to clarify it a bit further. If a combatant willingly moved (not shift or teleport) or used a ranged/area attack power, that can provoke an opportunity attack at any time, whether they are on open ground or next to an enemy. Whether or not the enemy can make that opportunity attack, depends on the conditions being met under Opportunity Attacks (ie. leaving a threatened square, using a ranged/power) other conditions not withstanding. Is that correct?

A: Yep, it sounds like you got it.


So, in regards to Firehawk, here are the actions that an enemy could take in order to NOT trigger the secondary attack:

Shift
Teleport
Melee attack
Use any power that specifically says that it doesn't Provoke opportunity attacks
It could also ready an action to use it's ranged attack or move, once the druid did something (cast a spell, wildshape, move, etc) since Firehawk ends at the start of the druid's turn.

I have come to the conclusion (and the response from CS supports this) that if an action states in it's description that it 'Provokes Opportunity Attacks:' (examples include: ranged attacks, area attacks, ranged basic attacks, walk, run, squeeze, crawl, from the PHB) that means that just doing that action will provoke an Opportunity Attack in general.  Whether or not an enemy gets to perform that Opportunity Attack depends on if you perform said action in an adjacent square, since an Opportunity Attack is a melee basic attack.

Ramius

58074418 wrote:
I strive for the freedom from expectations so many enjoy here; I fear I have a long journey to that level of spiritual creaminess.
In the campaign I DM we generally use the looser interpretation of the the power that is mentioned above.

Although, as Mellored noted, there are specific powers/feats/etc that allow you to create additional instances when you could use an OA.

The way we approach this is that Firehawk only works for actions *any* vanilla character would get an OA on if they were adjacent to the target.

We have found that this interpretation, though loose, is hardly broken.  The player mainly uses it against artillery, and although the majority of actions these creatures have available (mostly ranged and area) provoke the secondary attack it is hardly unbalanced enough to impact encounters in any major way.

Keep in mind the secondary attack is just that, it still has to hit a second time to apply the secondary damage, which is approximately half the time that enemies actually provoke it instead of deigning to take an action that does not put it at risk (which is in iself very controllery).
First off, let me explain that my DM absolutely hates this power.  He, the other player, and friends of ours are interpretting it as the target actually has to provoke the opportunity attack in order for the secondary attack to go off (I know, but I am going along with it for the sake of the game). 

I am trying to come up with ways (other than the ones I mentioned above) that an enemy subjected to Firehawk could still do something, and not take the secondary attack.  I came up with one that I think would be really good, but I would like some confirmation of my thinking.

So here is the scenario, Druid A casts Firehawk on Monster B.  Monster B, realizing that it can't do anything that would provoke an AO, and is not within shifting range of an enemy to make a melee attack, decides to ready an action.  When the trigger (of the readied action) goes off, Monster B can take his action, and not have the secondary attack  hit him, even if said readied action would provoke an AO. 

Here's my thinking as to why.  First, an AO can only be made during a combatants turn.  A readied action is an Immediate Action (reaction, technically).  Since you can't take immediate actions on your turn, you are safe from provoking OA.  Second, if Monster B's readied action was to wait for the Druid to do X, Firehawk would not go off since the effect of the spell ends at the start of my next turn.  Also if the Druid cast Firehawk again on Monster B, Monster B could take his readied action against the Druid and not draw the secondary attack from the second firehawk since you cannot make OAs during your turn.

First, does this sound correct? Second, I don't think that I am going to tell my DM about this, because it's kind of taken the effectiveness out of the power again, but less than the other interpretation. >

Ramius
 
58074418 wrote:
I strive for the freedom from expectations so many enjoy here; I fear I have a long journey to that level of spiritual creaminess.
You've got it a little backwards.  It's not that you can't provoke an OA when it's not your turn, it's that you can't take an OA when it is your turn. 

Thus, if the monster readied his action to somehow go off on the druid's turn, then you're golden. 

Returned from hiatus; getting up to speed on 5e rules lawyering.

I predict that we'll be seeing clarifying errata on this power in the future. Personally, I'm currently interpreting it as, essentially, if the monster moves without a shift/teleport or makes a ranged or area attack the druid gets the secondary attack. It seems a little powerful since it's essentially two attacks on any monster unless that monster is a melee combatant that is in melee range, but meh.

Actually, I'm surprised no one's sent this over to custserve yet =x
Actually it has been sent to CS.  Their first response was basically gibberish, and their second, said that their had to be an ally threatening the target that actually provoked the OA in order for the second attack to go off.  On the flip side, the questions I just recently asked CS (see above) only convolute the situation more.

The second attack is powerful, no argument here.  I honestly wouldn't mind seeing it brought down to say 1d8 or Wis Modifier damage or something similar.  What is really cool about the power is the control that it puts on a ranged/moving enemy.  It is the only at-will power that I have seen in the game that punishes an enemy for actually making a ranged attack.  Other at-wills punish a monster for moving/not moving, or inhibit a monster in some way.  Those powers really don't address the issue of punishing the monster for making a ranged attack aka CONTROLLING the monster.

Take Ray of Frost for example, if you used it on a monster that had no ranged attack (or a less powerful one) and was more than 4 squares away from you, you would have effectively eliminated that monster from taking an attack that round.  Firehawk is sort of the flip side of the coin.

Ramius
58074418 wrote:
I strive for the freedom from expectations so many enjoy here; I fear I have a long journey to that level of spiritual creaminess.

I don't think it's too powerful, personally.  I think it performs a control function very well (makes moving less likely).  It seems most powerful, imho, vs ranged enemies--but many of those have high reflex defenses and that's what this power targets.

I like it as is.

"The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Christ Jesus our Lord" Romans 6:23
You've got it a little backwards.  It's not that you can't provoke an OA when it's not your turn, it's that you can't take an OA when it is your turn. 

Thus, if the monster readied his action to somehow go off on the druid's turn, then you're golden. 





And since monsters know the effects that are on them any monsters that are always played as tactical smart would just ready for the druids turn.
Of course making monsters more predictable in initative and action is still control.
The sea looks at the stabillity of the mountian and sighs. The mountian watches the freedom of the sea and cries.

I don't think it's too powerful, personally.  I think it performs a control function very well (makes moving less likely).  It seems most powerful, imho, vs ranged enemies--but many of those have high reflex defenses and that's what this power targets.

I like it as is.




This.  Especially since the secondary attack also has to hit, which means that even if enemies choose provoke they may not get hit.

Running a game with a PC who uses the liberal interpretation, I have yet to see it unbalance an encounter, even at early levels where the damage makes more of a difference.

This issue came up for my group this week.  I am the DM.  The player wants to interpret it as He is able to make an opportunity attack against the target but the range of the Fire Hawk is 10 so a shift away is no opportunity attack but if a second move or ranged attack occurs, the fire hawk can strike cause its range 10. 

I disagree.  Look at the power and it states Fire, Implement, Primal.  Well, a Fire Hawk does not use a an implement.  That info refers to the player.  I infer that to mean that the Range also refers to the player not to the fire hawk.  The player has to stay within 10 to use the secondary attack. 

Then if the target takes an action that can provoke an opportunity attack, it occurs.  But the range of the Opportunity Attack is the same as the range of all Opportunity Attacks, i.e. adjacent.  The Fire Hawk has to be adjacent to the target for an opportunity attack to occur.

The power does not indicate that the Fire Hawk has Threatening Reach.  In the compendium glossary under Opportunity Attacks, only Threatening Reach allows Opportunity Attacks of greater distance than adjacent.  This is confirmed by looking up Polearms with Reach.  Even though they have Reach, they do not have Threatening Reach and thus only an adjacent enemy provokes Opportunity Attacks. 
This issue came up for my group this week.  I am the DM.  The player wants to interpret it as He is able to make an opportunity attack against the target but the range of the Fire Hawk is 10 so a shift away is no opportunity attack but if a second move or ranged attack occurs, the fire hawk can strike cause its range 10. 

I disagree.  Look at the power and it states Fire, Implement, Primal.  Well, a Fire Hawk does not use a an implement.  That info refers to the player.  I infer that to mean that the Range also refers to the player not to the fire hawk.  The player has to stay within 10 to use the secondary attack. 

Then if the target takes an action that can provoke an opportunity attack, it occurs.  But the range of the Opportunity Attack is the same as the range of all Opportunity Attacks, i.e. adjacent.  The Fire Hawk has to be adjacent to the target for an opportunity attack to occur.

The power does not indicate that the Fire Hawk has Threatening Reach.  In the compendium glossary under Opportunity Attacks, only Threatening Reach allows Opportunity Attacks of greater distance than adjacent.  This is confirmed by looking up Polearms with Reach.  Even though they have Reach, they do not have Threatening Reach and thus only an adjacent enemy provokes Opportunity Attacks. 

If any attack made has the Implement keyword, it gets all the bonuses. Implement keyword > bonuses. Very simple.

Also funny should try and define it in terms of Threatening Reach.

2. When using the Fire Hawk power’s Opportunity Action, what counts as “any action that can provoke opportunity attacks?”  Can I use this when the target moves or uses a ranged attack power, even if it is not adjacent to any of my allies?

Yes. The effect is similar to threatening reach.


This issue came up for my group this week.  I am the DM.  The player wants to interpret it as He is able to make an opportunity attack against the target but the range of the Fire Hawk is 10 so a shift away is no opportunity attack but if a second move or ranged attack occurs, the fire hawk can strike cause its range 10. 

I disagree.  Look at the power and it states Fire, Implement, Primal.  Well, a Fire Hawk does not use a an implement.  That info refers to the player.  I infer that to mean that the Range also refers to the player not to the fire hawk.  The player has to stay within 10 to use the secondary attack. 

Then if the target takes an action that can provoke an opportunity attack, it occurs.  But the range of the Opportunity Attack is the same as the range of all Opportunity Attacks, i.e. adjacent.  The Fire Hawk has to be adjacent to the target for an opportunity attack to occur.

The power does not indicate that the Fire Hawk has Threatening Reach.  In the compendium glossary under Opportunity Attacks, only Threatening Reach allows Opportunity Attacks of greater distance than adjacent.  This is confirmed by looking up Polearms with Reach.  Even though they have Reach, they do not have Threatening Reach and thus only an adjacent enemy provokes Opportunity Attacks. 

If any attack made has the Implement keyword, it gets all the bonuses. Implement keyword > bonuses. Very simple.

Also funny should try and define it in terms of Threatening Reach.

2. When using the Fire Hawk power’s Opportunity Action, what counts as “any action that can provoke opportunity attacks?”  Can I use this when the target moves or uses a ranged attack power, even if it is not adjacent to any of my allies?

Yes. The effect is similar to threatening reach.



I'm not saying the target has to be adjacent to any allies.  The power mentions nothing about allies and neither does my post.  The Target has to be within 10 and be adjacent TO THE FIRE HAWK. 

The effect may be similar to Threatening Reach but only to the extent that you are making an opportunity attack to a non-adjacent target (non-adjacent TO THE PLAYER).  But the power does not state that the Fire Hawk itself has Threatening Reach.  If Wizards wanted the Fire Hawk to attack targets of greater distance than adjacent then it could have easily printed, "the Fire Hawk has Threatening Reach 10."  It did not do so. 

Therefore, the target can shift away from the Fire Hawk to avoid Opportunity Attacks.  To conclude otherwise directly contradicts the definition of Opportunity Attacks within the compendium. 

EDIT:
Here's an analogy to a Wizard power: Cloud of Daggers.  It affects a target within a square.  You attack and do damage.   If the target stays with the square it does further damage.  If he moves it doesn't do further damage. 

Similarly, Fire Hawk affects a target in a square.  It does damage.  Now, the target can take action.  If he does something in that square that would normally incur an Opportuntiy Attack IF the player were adjacent, then the Fire Hawk does its secondary attack.  But like Cloud of Daggers, the target has the option to shift out in order to avoid the secondary damage/attack. 

Fire Hawk doesn't have the Conjutation or Summoning keyword. The target can't "shift away" from it. ^.^
Fire Hawk doesn't have the Conjutation or Summoning keyword. The target can't "shift away" from it. ^.^



And this is exactly why Implement and Range refer to the PC casting the power, not the fire hawk.
Analogy is flawed, Cloud of Daggers has the Conjuration keyword. Fire Hawk isn't a "Fire Hawk" that somehow is in the square. Powers do what they say they do, if the target (not the square) does anything to incur an OA, the player gets to use Fire Hawk's OA. Range could theoretically be an issue, but the OA interrupts so it isn't like the enemy can just walk out of range.
Analogy is flawed, Cloud of Daggers has the Conjuration keyword. Fire Hawk isn't a "Fire Hawk" that somehow is in the square. Powers do what they say they do, if the target (not the square) does anything to incur an OA, the player gets to use Fire Hawk's OA. Range could theoretically be an issue, but the OA interrupts so it isn't like the enemy can just walk out of range.



You're making an assumption that is not proven.  That the Range listed in the power applies to the Opportunity Attack.  Read Opportunity Attacks and it states adjacent.  Being adjacent is an absolute requirement to opportunity attacks, unless it has Threatening Reach, which it does not.  

You've also said yourself... a fire hawk does not have a conjuration or summoning key word.  How can something that does not exist unto iteself have a range? 

Not to mention that while it interrupts the action, an OA does not stop the target from acting.  A target that wants to move... guess what, he still moves away, but the fire hawk gets to attack in that case.  It is not a Fighter that can stop movement.  It states this clearly under the rules for Opportunity Attacks.

EDIT: In response to above: Cloud of Daggers does NOT have the Conjuration keyword.  Just looked it up. 

Most likely, this power was originally intended to work just like Cloud of Daggers but no one told the guy writing up the FAQ ad he foolishly brought Threatening Reach into the discussion.  The power should read that the Flame Hawk is in the square of the target (just like the fluff description).  Then the target is vulnerable to Opportunity Attack from the Flames.  In game play, 1 shift away would merely make the target adjacent, thus still vulnerable to an Opportunity Attack.  It would take 2 shifts or a teleport to move away successfully and accomplishing the same thing that the power does under the FAQ's ruling.  

It should be said that having it work like Cloud of Daggers would do nothing to change the power in actual operation except in 2 situations.
1) A teleporter can port out and never be able to hit by the Opportunity Attack (no longer adjacent to the target's original square). 
2) A ranged attacker could shift 2 squares away and then use an action point to attack. 
What part of "works like threatening reach" are you having trouble understanding?  If an enemy leaves a square without shifting within the range of your threatening reach, you get an OA.  With the Fire Hawk power active, your threatening reach for the Fire Hawk Opportunity Attack is 10.
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You're making an assumption that is not proven.  That the Range listed in the power applies to the Opportunity Attack.  Read Opportunity Attacks and it states adjacent.   You've also said yourself... a fire hawk does not have a conjuration or summoning key word.  How can something that does not exist have a range? 

Not to mention that while it interrupts the action, an OA does not stop the target from acting.  A target that wants to move... guess what, he still moves away, but the fire hawk gets to attack.  It is not a Fighter that can stop movement.  It states this clearly under the rules for Opportuntiy Attacks. 

Specific > general. Easy. The official FAQ, written by the developers, states it works the way I say it does. That is a not a beatable argument. You're incorrect. As long as the Druid is within 10 of the target if it does anything that'd provoke an OA, you get to make the attack.

And no one said it stopped the movement, just that moving out of range probably isn't going to happen because you can attack before they move out of range since OAs interrupt. Unless you cast Fire Hawk then... intentionally move out of range. That'd be retarded though.

What part of "works like threatening reach" are you having trouble understanding?  If an enemy leaves a square without shifting within the range of your threatening reach, you get an OA.  With the Fire Hawk power active, your threatening reach for the Fire Hawk Opportunity Attack is 10.



Threatening Reach is a specific power.  Look it up.  Under the description of a Monster, it will say that the creature has Threatening Reach.  Show me where it says the words Threatening Reach in the Power description for Fire Hawk.  You cannot do that because it does not say that.  Thus, it does not have Threatening Reach. 

It says Range 10, refering to the range within which the PC must be in order to affect the target with the secondary attack.

Let me be blunt.

The developer FAQ is a canon rules source.  This canon rules source says it works the way we say it does, not the way you think it does.  The FAQ quote listed above gives the direct question that you're asking, with an unequivocal "Yes" as an answer, and then a line about how it's similar to threatening reach.

You.  Are.  Wrong.

Edit:  Link:  wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg...
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
Threatening Reach is a specific power.  Look it up.  Under the description of a Monster, it will say that the creature has Threatening Reach.  Show me where it says the words Threatening Reach in the Power description for Fire Hawk.  You cannot do that because it does not say that.  Thus, it does not have Threatening Reach.

It says Range 10, refering to the range within which the PC must be in order to affect the target with the secondary attack.


And the developers said, in the official FAQ, Fire Hawk works like Threatening Reach. That is how it is intended to work. The fact that there was confusion and they officially clarified means you're incorrect.

Threatening Reach is a specific power.  Look it up.  Under the description of a Monster, it will say that the creature has Threatening Reach.  Show me where it says the words Threatening Reach in the Power description for Fire Hawk.  You cannot do that because it does not say that.  Thus, it does not have Threatening Reach.

It says Range 10, refering to the range within which the PC must be in order to affect the target with the secondary attack.


And the developers said, in the official FAQ, Fire Hawk works like Threatening Reach. That is how it is intended to work. The fact that there was confusion and they officially clarified means you're incorrect.




2. When using the Fire Hawk power’s Opportunity Action, what counts as “any action that can provoke opportunity attacks?”  Can I use this when the target moves or uses a ranged attack power, even if it is not adjacent to any of my allies?


Yes. The effect is similar to threatening reach.


I've quoted the material.  And I already answered this question in a previous post.  Similar to != exactly the same as. 

IT IS AMBIGUOUS!



What part about "Yes" is ambiguous, exactly?

You're wrong, and trying to argue against it is a waste of time.
D&D Next = D&D: Quantum Edition
What part about "Yes" is ambiguous, exactly?

You're wrong, and trying to argue against it is a waste of time.



Because it doesn't answer the question asked.  Nor does it answer the question that I am asking.

EDIT: Can you tell that I am a lawyer?  This is exactly the kind of wording in a contract that would start a litigation.

Whoever wrote this FAQ answer should be fired.  The material answered Yes.  But it doesn't refer back to either of the 2 questions.  Was it Yes to the first question or Yes to the second?  Yes to both?  No one knows because it doesn't say. 

The answer refers to Threatening Reach.  But that was not mentioned in either question and makes it even more confusing.  Threatening Reach is a specific power given to monsters.  As said previously, this isn't a conjured monster so how does it have Threatening Reach?  Does the Druid have it? 

Al said that the druid has it within Range 10.  This is a much better argument than was put up before.  Before he was saying that the Fire Hawk effectively has threatening reach range 10 but that doesn't make sense without a conjuration or summoning key word.  If the druid has Threatening Reach rather than the Fire Hawk I could maybe buy that, if it said that in the power description.  It could have stated that but it didn't. 

Al's may be a good argument except that it would make this one of the strongest control at wills in the game and would eviserate the Opportunity Attack rule.  It's definitely not how most other powers in the game operate so that is why I doubt that it works this way.  
Good thing it's a game, then?

They made a FAQ entry instead of an errata.  The FAQ entry is equally valid.  To illustrate the distinction, let's say some law has a provision that appears invalid for whatever reason.  One option is to get the law amended to fix it, which would be an errata publication.  The other option would be to get clarification from the courts on what the law actually does.  That's a FAQ entry.

Your question is already covered by the FAQ entry, whether or not you consider it to be sufficiently distinct.
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