One-Two Punch - Rogue encounter power

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Here's the relevant text from the power:

Target: One or two creatures


Attack: Dexterity vs. AC


Hit: 1[W] damage. If you hit both targets, you can deal your Sneak Attack damage to each target instead of just one.



It seems like you could read that one of several ways in regards to your potential sneak attack damage when you hit both targets.  Clearly, if you have CA against both targets, and HIT both targets, you can deal SA against each.

What if you only have CA against one target, but hit both?  Is this power a "specific" allowing you to deal SA to the non-CA target regardless of CA?  Or is it only being "specific" in allowing you to override the normal SA rule of once per turn, but still requiring CA for that SA?
A CS response on the subject was given in Customer Services Colsolidated Answers Post #621

This was not what I expected with the handling of SA.  Anyone else have different mileage on One-Two Punch?






Reference #



 



100310-000435



Hi, I'm trying to get my head around the One-two Punch. I've tried comparing to other martial multi-attacks; Dual Strike and Twin Strike. One-two punch lacks the Primary and Secondary Attack lines of Dual Strike, and lack the the ",two attacks" in the attack line of Twin Strike.

1. 1-2 Punch reads as if were one attack against two targets, i.e. a single attack roll. Is the accurate?
A: It is two attack rolls
2. "you can deal your Sneak Attack damage to each target". Is Combat Advantage required for both Sneak Attacks? Or if I CA against the first do I automatically get SA against the second if I hit? Is it a single roll applied twice, or separate rolls for each? Same question for Weapon damage?
A: So long as you hits each target, you will get your Sneak Attack damage against both. Combat Advantage is not required for this attack. It is two separate rolls and two separate damage rolls.
3. Is there a pause between attacks in event that there is an Immediate Reaction from my target, or are both attacks considered to be simultaneous?
A: Both attacks are considered simultaneous.






 


 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Thanks!
If there is only one target adjacent, do I get the SA bonus if I hit him without CA?
No. One-Two Punch only allow to deal Sneak Attack twice in the same turn instead of just once, but combat advantage is still required to deal it in the first place.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

No. One-Two Punch only allow to deal Sneak Attack twice in the same turn instead of just once, but combat advantage is still required to deal it in the first place.



I don't think that is correct. Earlier in this thread it was determined that CA is NOT required. My question is if you use the power on only ONE available target without CA, will it still work for applying the SA damage.
After analyzing the wording again, i think i don't agree with Customer Service's take on Sneak Attack not needing combat advantage on One-Two PunchWink


Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

After analyzing the wording again, i think i don't agree with Customer Service's take on Sneak Attack not needing combat advantage on One-Two Punch




Not agreeing with CS?  Perish the thought!
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
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Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here
While we're there i also don't agree with Customer Service's take on One-Two Punch's melee attacks being simultaneous.

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

FWIW a Thread in the 4e Errata Archive has a post from WoTC_GregB about One-Two Punch that says it still need combat advantage.


If you use this against one creature, you deal 1[W] damage and sneak attack damage (if you choose).


If you use it against two creatures and hit both, you deal 1[W] to each, and you can deal your sneak attack damage to one (as normal), or both, as defined by the power, but you must still meet the normal requirements of sneak attack (combat advantage). 

It probably could have been clearer, but that is the intent. We have stopped using the ", two attacks" notation that appeared in Player's Handbook.
 

Yan
Montréal, Canada
@Plaguescarred on twitter

Interpreted that way, the whole damn power is useless.  How often do you get CA on two opponents at the same time?


My take is that since it doesn't expressly note that you need CA in its Target text, as with Sly Lunge, and since its an Encounter power, which usually does 2W damage or 1W+effect, if you only have one target available, you still do SA damage to him even without CA.  


Interpreted that way, the whole damn power is useless.  How often do you get CA on two opponents at the same time?


My take is that since it doesn't expressly note that you need CA in its Target text, as with Sly Lunge, and since its an Encounter power, which usually does 2W damage or 1W+effect, if you only have one target available, you still do SA damage to him even without CA.  





Thats honestly not very hard.
(Here are just a couple general examples)
Are you hidden/invisible?  Grats CA!
Do you have a feybeast near the target and are level 5+?  Grats CA!
Do you know that frostcheese exists?  Grats CA!
Is someone in your party holding a lamp with mage-hand in melee and tome expertise?  Grats CA!
Are we tossing around "dazed" tokens like candy?  Grats CA!
 
Currently working on making a Dex based defender. Check it out here
Show
Need a few pre-generated characters for a one-shot you are running? Want to get a baseline for what an effective build for a class you aren't familiar with? Check out the Pregen thread here If ever you are interested what it sounds like to be at my table check out my blog and podcast here Also, I've recently done an episode on "Refluffing". You can check that out here