3/29/2010 MM: "On the Rise, Part I"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Making Magic, which goes live Monday morning on magicthegathering.com.
I always feel the "shuffle this into your library" clause on super-fatties is really clunky. It's only there to stop reanimation, and reanimation doesn't really exist on many cards. Is it possible to consider altering reanimation instead of super-fatties? This could be done by making reanimation cards that are any of: more expensive, CMC-based, temporary. \:>
Oh hey, its Pegaweb! Sup buddy?

The flavor of the set is definitely fun and interesting. That said, although R&D has given me plenty of reasons to trust them, I'm holding my breath to see how playable this set is... everywhere. I already find Zendikar and Worldwake to be the least interesting sets since MaRo took over, and the Power-Gamer-Timmy-ness of this set, although a sensible addition to two sets encouraging you to play tons of land, is worrysome. I'm sure the set will work--I'm just curious to know how much fun I'll get out of it.
i think a better way to deal with reanimation problems is to just make a keyword that says 'CARDNAME may not be the target of spells or abilities while it is in a graveyard'.  other non-targeting spells and abilities could manage to bring them back (quest for ancient truths or liliana vess, etc)
While I agree that the anti-reanimator clause is clunky, I think it is the lesser of two evils. Only the super-est of super fatties need the clause. I think it is a worse issue for the game to have no more super fatties than to gimp reanimator to the point that it's not a viable archetype. Reanimating is fun and the balance of creatures that are reanimate-able is usually pretty good. A few ultra-monsters-with-clean-text-boxes is not worth sacrificing that.
Oh hey, its Pegaweb! Sup buddy?



<| :>

The flavor of the set is definitely fun and interesting. That said, although R&D has given me plenty of reasons to trust them, I'm holding my breath to see how playable this set is... everywhere. I already find Zendikar and Worldwake to be the least interesting sets since MaRo took over, and the Power-Gamer-Timmy-ness of this set, although a sensible addition to two sets encouraging you to play tons of land, is worrysome. I'm sure the set will work--I'm just curious to know how much fun I'll get out of it.



I agree with this analysis of ZEN/WWK, which I've already said my 2c about. Lately, set delineation within blocks has become very weak. TS and Lorwyn/Shadowmoor really had strong individual sets. Alara and Zen both had strong block themes, but the smaller sets were just "more cards"+"storyline-based set theme".

I agree RoE looks great.

As far as awesome effects and creatures go, I think there's an issue with constantly trying to out-awesome oneself. :> Sarkhan Vol's ultimate ability came too close to "I win" for my liking.

The Eldrazi do look awesome though.

I'll have to play it to know for sure, but RoE looks like a whole lot o' fun. :>

MaRo: Lots (I mean heaps) more cycles please. Shadowmoor/Eventide's cycles really added a strong structure and flavour. :>

\:>
This could be done by making reanimation cards that are any of: more expensive, CMC-based, temporary. \:>

Hasn't this been done already?

The real reason they shuffle back, is that they don't want someone at a kitchen table pulling Entomb/Exhume shenanigans, then getting accused of "cheating" by some blissful idiot who thinks it's 'unfair' to not pay 15 for 'indestructible' monster unless Elvish Piper is involved.

Attacking with an invincible monster is "fun", even when the game just ends right there.  Blowing out an opponent on turn two with an invincible monster is "unfun", regardless of achieving the same end result.
This set is by the same guy who did Time Spiral? No wonder it is so awesome!
Of course, the "smaller" Eldrazi can still be used in Reanimation strategies. A 9/9 with Annihilator 3 is still nothing to scoff at. Better yet, they arent even legendary. Hello Kiki-Jiki.
98% of people use statistics in their sigs, or have used them in the past. If you are one of the 2% that haven't or don't, place this into your signature. New Magic Forums, Im'a let you finish, but the old Magic Forums were one of the greatest boards of all time!
I got to where Devin Low left, and had had had to ask, what other game could he possibly be doing?  If anyone has an answer, hit me up with an email or something.  Im off to finish the article and read the posts.

*skips to the card*

Meh, this doesn't tickle my Timmy.

Thumbs up to BT for the tat though.

This set is by the same guy who did Time Spiral? No wonder it is so awesome!

It is? What a coincidence, I skipped Time Spiral too...

Join me next week when I begin to explain how they did it.

Until then, may you know the joy of hardcasting an incredibly expensive creature.


Why? Are you showing us another way of casting them next week? :P
Rise of the Eldrazi
is the first time we've rebooted the mechanics without rebooting the creative.


How about Odyssey (or however it's spelled) into Onslaught? Tongue out
Same plane, same continent even, storyline continues, only there are suddenly wildly different creature types living northside...

Aah how I miss those days where stories could be grand enough to span more than a year. At least Scars of Mirrodin gives hope in returning to one of those 1-year-offs! But then again, the awesomeness of the likely second set's name is dampened by the likely third set's name...

OT: Eldrazi... I'm a little worried we're going to have to ban them in our casual multiplayer group as they are really over the top. The Annihalator mechanic makes it even impossible for Spike Weaver to hold the ground who could stop earlier ones like Progenitus and Darksteel, but aside from that they look interesting =) 2 common ones even! Pauper deck in the making!

I like the "joke" how even their common scouts would be mythic legends on a normal card =)

O, one other thing:

It became quickly apparent that the only existing card type that made sense was creature.



I would've liked to hear why Planeswalker would not be a good fit. Flavorwise, Mechanic-wise, too early in Planeswalker's development? It would not be practical as printing 2 common planeswalker scouts might be a little bit to early. Then again, one of these days (years) we should get a Kamigawa meets Planeswalkers, as in a set where every mythic (which is actually not as much as every rare, so no overload) was a Planeswalker, and then the second and third set would show evolutions of those. Smile
I'm looking forward to the Planeswalkers set too. I reckon that'll be when we get the Treetop Jacers effect, which is quite a fun prospect
Wow, someone in WotC (MaRo even) acknowledges Devin Low's existence! I wondered how much time it would take. When he left the company, it seemed like official voices were forced to stop talking about him, and the reason of him leaving was never clearly given. So the truth, all along, is that he left Wizards to work with an other game company, and his "treason" was kept secret!!! (That, or he got fired then found a job elsewhere, which is equally likely, but then we still don't know why he would have got fired).
Magic The Gathering DCI Lvl 1 Judge Don't hesitate to post rules question in the Rules Q&A forum for me and other competent advisors to answer : http://community.wizards.com/go/forum/view/75842/134778/Rules_Q38A
Rise of the Eldrazi
is the first time we've rebooted the mechanics without rebooting the creative.



How about Odyssey (or however it's spelled) into Onslaught? Tongue out
Same plane, same continent even, storyline continues, only there are suddenly wildly different creature types living northside...

Aah how I miss those days where stories could be grand enough to span more than a year. At least Scars of Mirrodin gives hope in returning to one of those 1-year-offs! But then again, the awesomeness of the likely second set's name is dampened by the likely third set's name...

OT: Eldrazi... I'm a little worried we're going to have to ban them in our casual multiplayer group as they are really over the top. The Annihalator mechanic makes it even impossible for Spike Weaver to hold the ground who could stop earlier ones like Progenitus and Darksteel, but aside from that they look interesting =) 2 common ones even! Pauper deck in the making!

I like the "joke" how even their common scouts would be mythic legends on a normal card =)

O, one other thing:

It became quickly apparent that the only existing card type that made sense was creature.



I would've liked to hear why Planeswalker would not be a good fit. Flavorwise, Mechanic-wise, too early in Planeswalker's development? It would not be practical as printing 2 common planeswalker scouts might be a little bit to early. Then again, one of these days (years) we should get a Kamigawa meets Planeswalkers, as in a set where every mythic (which is actually not as much as every rare, so no overload) was a Planeswalker, and then the second and third set would show evolutions of those. Smile


I hardly see why something so expensive and manageable would need to be banned. Any common pacifism like effect will get rid of them. As will path to exile and anything that removes them from t...I mean exiles them.

I'm guessing limited will have a lot of ways of dealing with them. The obvious way would be to reprint oblivion ring yet again (seriously, just put it in the core set already)

 
I'm looking forward to the Planeswalkers set too. I reckon that'll be when we get the Treetop Jacers effect, which is quite a fun prospect


This would be a terrible nightmare for me.
OMG click HERE! OMG! How to autocard and use decklist format
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Real signature, Sblocked for space:
57817638 wrote:
I like storm crow because I really like crows in real life, as an animal, and the card isn't terribly stupid, but packs a good deal of nostalgia and also a chunck of the game's history. So it's perhaps one of the cards I have most affection to, but not because "lol storm crow is bad hurr hurr durr".
Listen to my SoundCloud while you read my signature. The Island, Come And See, The Landlord's Daughter, You'll Not Feel The Drowning - The Decemberists by vimschy IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/rkvR.gif)IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/L3es.gif) IMAGE(http://dragcave.net/image/m71H.gif)
Quotes
56747598 wrote:
57295478 wrote:
Although I do assume you deliberately refer to them (DCI) as The Grand Imperial Convocation of Evil just for the purposes of making them sound like an ancient and terrible conspiracy.
Now, now. 1994 doesn't quite qualify as "ancient".
56734518 wrote:
Oh, it's a brilliant plan. You see, Bolas was travelling through shadowmoor, causing trouble, when he saw a Wickerbough Elder with its stylin' dead scarecrow hat. Now, Bolas being Bolas took the awesome hat and he put it on his head, but even with all his titanic powers of magic he couldn't make it fit. He grabbed some more scarecrows, but then a little kithkin girl asked if he was trying to build a toupee. "BY ALL THE POWERS IN THE MULTIVERSE!" he roared, "I WILL HAVE A HAT WORTHY OF MY GLORY." and so he went through his Dark Lore of Doom (tm) looking for something he could make into a hat that would look as stylish on him as a scarecrow does on a treefolk. He thought about the Phyrexians, but they were covered in goopy oil that would make his nonexistant hair greasy. He Tried out angels for a while but they didn't sit quite right. Then, he looked under "e" (because in the Elder Draconic alphabet, "e" for Eldrazi is right next to "h" for Hat) in his Dark Lore of Doom and saw depictions of the Eldrazi, and all their forms. "THIS SHALL BE MY HAT!" he declared, poking a picture of Emrakul, "AND WITH IT I WILL USHER IN A NEW AGE OF DARKNESS -- ER, I MEAN A NEW AGE OF FASHION!" And so Nicol Bolas masterminded the release of the Eldrazi.
57864098 wrote:
Rhox War Monk just flips pancakes, and if games have told us anything, it's that food = life.
56747598 wrote:
76973988 wrote:
This thread has gotten creepy. XP
Really? Really? The last couple days have been roughly every perverse fetish imaginable, but it only got "creepy" when speculation on Mother of Runes's mob affiliation came up?
76672808 wrote:
57864098 wrote:
57531048 wrote:
Nice mana base. Not really.
Yeah, really. If my deck was going to cost $1000+, I'd at least make it good.
99812049 wrote:
I like to think up what I consider clever names for my decks, only later to be laughed at by my wife. It kills me a little on the inside, but thats what marriage is about.
56816728 wrote:
56854588 wrote:
Of course, the best use [of tolaria west] is transmuting for the real Tolaria. ;)
Absolutely. I used to loose to my buddy's Banding deck for ages, it was then that I found out about Tolaria, and I was finally able win my first game.
70246459 wrote:
WOAH wait wait wait
56957928 wrote:
You know, being shallow and jusdgmental aside, "I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
"I later found out that Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates with at least two other people"
56957928 wrote:
Jon infiltrated his way into OKCupid dates
56957928 wrote:
OH MY GOD
109874309 wrote:
The only way I'd cast this card is into a bonfire.
82032421 wrote:
The short answer is that there's no rule barring annoying people from posting, but there a rule barring us from harassing them about it.
56747598 wrote:
Browbeat is a card that is an appropriate deck choice when there's no better idea available. "No better idea available" was pretty much the running theme of Odyssey era.
56874518 wrote:
Or perhaps it was a more straightforward comment indicating a wish for you to be bitten (Perhaps repeatedly) by a small yet highly venomous arachnid.
70246459 wrote:
58280208 wrote:
You're an idiot, and I'm in no mood for silliness.
57817638 wrote:
57145078 wrote:
You just... Vektor it.
That's the answer to everything.
70246459 wrote:
58347268 wrote:
I think the problem is that you don't exist.
This would sound great out of context!
56965458 wrote:
Modern is like playing a new tournament every time : you build a deck, you win with it, don't bother keeping it. Just build another, its key pieces will get banned.
57864098 wrote:
57309598 wrote:
I specifically remember posting a thread when I was just a witty bitty noob.
You make it sound like that's still not the case.
58325628 wrote:
Rap is what happens when the c from crap is taken away.
Doug Beyer:
But sometimes it's also challenging. Because sometimes OH MY GOD, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS THING?
141434757 wrote:
Flashforward five thousand years (Click for atmosphere) :
57927608 wrote:
to paraphrase Jeff Goldblum, Vektor finds a way.
58347268 wrote:
when in rome **** AND PILLAGE
143229641 wrote:
I always find it helpful when im angry to dress up in an owl costume and rub pennies all over my body in front of a full body mirror next to the window.
Dymecoar:
Playing Magic without Blue is like sleeping without any sheets or blankets. You can do it...but why?
Omega137:
Me: "I love the moment when a control deck stabilizes. It feels so... right." Omega137: "I like the life drop part until you get there, it's the MtG variant of bungee jumping"
Zigeif777:
Just do it like Yu-Gi-Oh or monkeys: throw all the crap you got at them and hope it works or else the by-standers (or opponents) just get dirty and pissed.
57471038 wrote:
58258708 wrote:
It's true that Alpha and Beta didn't contain any cards like Tarmogoyf, Darksteel Colossus, or Platinum Angel. It just contained weak, insignificant cards like Black Lotus, Mox Sapphire, and Time Walk.
Normally it's difficult to pick up on your jokes/sarcasm. But this one's pretty much out there. Good progress. You have moved up to Humanoid. You'll be Human in no time.
91893448 wrote:
94618431 wrote:
I didn't know Samurai were known to be able to cut down whole armies...
They can when they're using lightsabers!
57129358 wrote:
97980259 wrote:
My wife brought home a baby black squirrel they found on a horse track and cared for it for a few days. We named it Grixis, but it died.
Unearth it!
70246459 wrote:
[/spoiler] And I'm on Magic Arcana. How about you? Oh, by the way, I'm also on From the Lab now. Twice, actually. And now with my own submited decklist!
Wow, someone in WotC (MaRo even) acknowledges Devin Low's existence! I wondered how much time it would take. When he left the company, it seemed like official voices were forced to stop talking about him, and the reason of him leaving was never clearly given. So the truth, all along, is that he left Wizards to work with an other game company, and his "treason" was kept secret!!! (That, or he got fired then found a job elsewhere, which is equally likely, but then we still don't know why he would have got fired).



To be fair, MaRo has spoken highly of Devin every chance he got since Devin left. It started with him going out of his way to praise him shortly after the rumors hit, and then at some point he said Devin was gone and had caught on elsewhere. This is at least the second time MaRo has lamented his departure. Also, something similar was done in the development articles for teams that included Devin. I am pretty sure they are not allowed to discuss what might have led to him leaving or forced to leave with people that are not employees. Here in my office, we rarely discuss this sort of thing with each other. No way would that be discussed in public. I assume the employees of WOTC are held to the same standard. But it is true that for a while, no one said anything at all.
I like the idea of the Eldrazi. Feels like playing the Titan Quest game, being a half-god fighting some godkillers. The eldrazi themself remind me of the Cloverfield movie... (as well as Jace reminds me of Altair from Assassin's Greed).

However, I don't like the result:

1) They still can be sneaked into play via Hypergenesis, Quicksilver Amulet, Oath of Druids, Pattern of Rebirth, Jhoira of the Ghitu, Elvish Piper, Tooth and Nail, Call of the Wild, Defense of the Heart, Gate to the AEther, [C]Killer Instinct[/c] or the Hideaway lands. Hell, even a Leaf-Crowned Elder equipped with a Runed Stalactite can do the trick. The bous for hard-casting them isn't worth it. The annihilator ability is much more valuable, especially if I can use a Sneak Attack or Impromptu Raid giving them haste. Well, must have been a genius at R&D. As simple "You lose the game, if you didn't cast it" would have sealed nearly all holes.

2) I know Mark, that the annilator mechanic has to be as it is, since it is connected to Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker ultimate ability. This isn't really a problem, however it is the way how WotC is trying to get these monsters into play... Eldrazi tokens.

The best way to stop the eldrazi is to have eldrazi tokens??? They produced their own weakness??? That's so stupid!!!
In addition, the tokens don't have "use this mana only to cast **insert limitation**", so they are a perfect way to defeat the eldrazi by using the mana to cast my own powerful spells that will kill them??? This makes them valuable for everyone (beside the fact that they can be used as spendable blockers) and therefore I fear that even if I try to test an eldrazi build in a limited format, I won't get enough cards to get this thing to work!

3) It feels so stupid that a Terror can kill them. So why did the old planeswalker have so many problems of containing them? The simpliest spell can handle this problem. A Kithkin can handle the problem... they can even become pacifistic??? Well and of course, a Mirrorweave can make all the Eldrazi tokens become some real badasses.

Last but not least:
The most fundamental problem within magic - in my opinion - comes from the problematic color-wheel.

I mean it's quite easy to make a new edition if you reprint cards adding some random mechanic to them. Most cards are already predictable. You have limitations for the limited format, so you can pinch and twich it a little bit, but there will always be nearly the same card slots. The really interesting challenge is to make the set feel unique... giving a new experience. Well, the shards did this in some minor way, but limited always stays the same.

If you're following some simple rules (win card, anti-creature control, mana-slots, card advantage and turning-table cards), you can play all the colors the same way.

So where does the color-wheel get into this?
- Well, at first, there is a difference between the Magic color-wheel (Sample) and the "mundane" color-wheel (sample 1, Sample 2, Sample 3).

And if you look at the meaning for these colors (link 1 link 2, link 3), you will find out a few things:

1) There are 3 prmary colors: Yellow, Red and Blue
2) White is the sum of all colors, whereas black is the absense of light
3) If you take the secondary colors as well, 6 colors complete the cycle
4) Green is next to blue and yellow
5) Green is psycholigically a calm, peaceful, relaxing, self-control color
6) Orange stands next to red... and between red and yellow. It's an active color.
7) Red-Green // indigo-Yellow // blue-orange create the biggest contrast

So what does this means for magic?
- When you compare both color wheels, green and white / yellow seem to be the most complicated ones. And you can see this clearly within magic. Is white a defensive color or does it prefer a fast play (f.e. weenies)? Is white connected to the heat of the sun (Sunlance, etc.) making it a more aggressive, fire-like color? Is green more connected to blue, being the color of a more slowly build (card draw instead of creature-threats; fatties instead of weenies)? Is there any hate between red and green (Fire vs. Wood // Life vs Destruction) or is there a greater hate between blue and green (Water vs. 'Earth' // Mind vs. Matter)?

As a result, green and white are oscillating between their region. As a downside, that makes them lose a unique identity, as a positive thing, this makes them "new" within each set. On contrary, black and red had nearly never changed their behavior or gameplay. For me, this is one reason, why most editons feel like R&D had started with white & green and had lost interest when they finally got to red, blue and black.

The restrictions of these colors... might be the reason, why some designer playing with the idea of a sixth color - feeling that there is something missing. Some years ago, there was a discussion about adding purple to magic (2007). Back then, I stated, that Magic already has 6 colors.... that Brown (or metallic silver) is the sixth color. You have artifacts with flash representing instants, creatures, permanent-non-creature cards (replacing enchantments), auras alias equipments and sorceries in form of artifacts with a trigger and/or sacrifice effect. I even noticed, that a Beseech the queen is already a colorless spell in disguise... since you can play it without any colored mana and in every deck.

So I guess that "colorless" finally made it (quite near to what I have suggested) and fills the slot of the sixth color.... You can create unique effects, you can create DIRECT sorceries and a not so unimportant thing: You don't have to change the back of the magic cards....

So, but how does WotC arrange the new transparent color now? In the middle of the color wheel? Outside? For all colors? Against all colors?

To make it a unique color, it would be neccessary to make it a "all against" situation. In addition, each other color treat the colorless spells as they would treat an additional color. The result how I would have made it: A set without colorless mana symbols on any card other than colorless spells. But how would you get the required interaction in limited without colorless mana? - Lands, colorless spells and cmc1 cards.

That is one of the reasons, why I repeat myself for years now: - Every color should have access to those 3 effects:
- Mana accelleration (I want to be able to play a monowhite Akroma deck or a black Demon deck)
- Card advantage (it's the most fundamental winning strategy. So either draw/reuse cards or discard/destroy cards)
- Life Gain (a fact for a longer game, supports multiplayer games. Doesn't have to be a pure gain life, but damage redirection/prevention, etc.)

So in my opionion, the sixth color should have filled up the "mundane orange" part. Black - in my opinion - could easily fill up the indigo part, whereas white could fill up the yellow part. (maybe the "mundane green" part, leaving green as the mundane orange)

But all this wouldn't be enough for stopping the pendling green-white problem and doesn't stop red/black/blue from feeling "the same".

To get this to work, R&D should start thinking about how a color should be played... What should be the perfect draw for a color and then focussing on one specific part. This will surely lead to many different results and then THEREAFTER, you can twitch things to create a unique & interactive limited format.

I'm looking forward to the Planeswalkers set too. I reckon that'll be when we get the Treetop Jacers effect, which is quite a fun prospect



I wouldn't mind a planeswalker block either. Instead of tying everything together with a plane, the block could be tied up with an epic story and cross multiple planes!
I hardly see why something so expensive and manageable would need to be banned. Any common pacifism like effect will get rid of them. As will path to exile and anything that removes them from t...I mean exiles them.



Sorry I wasn't paying attention to what is officially spoiled and what are rumors. Let's just say out of the 3 mythic legendary eldrazi, it are not the 2 from the article I'm worried about Wink
I have been playing Magic on and off since Urza's Destiny as a spike and while I acknowledged the appeal of the flavor of Magic it never got me excited. I always played just for fun but fun meant engaging another person in a heated contest of skill with winning as the only goal and always choosing the best card for the situation when building a deck. Chess but with probability. I thought slivers were cute and necropotence a good take on being a lich and Kamigawa to be inspired but Magic has been out doing itself recently. The mischievous fae of Morningtide and the undercurrent of fear exposed in Eventide were amazing. Magic has had an excellent command of language, laccoliths for example, but this was equisite and now the Eldrazi. When I first saw Kozilket I thought ok I like this, inspired by Cthulhu maybe? I thought I hope they do this right and print some at common but they will never do that it would break the mystique of rares. How I was wrong. I think it would be unlikely to find another lead designer with better inked arms to lift the Eldrazi to the page from the mind. I think I will make my first ever casual deck and it will have an Eldrazi theme and there will be one copy of each of these legendary gods in it. My view might be distored being that I enjoy Lovecraftian literature but I think what you are making or I suppose what you made a year ago and are just now revealing is great.


If you like Lovecraft I suggest you read: A Study in Emerald by Neil Gaiman and Crouch End by Stephen King. The first is free on the internet from the author just search the name. These two short stories are the best adaptation of Lovecraft's world that I have read, but maybe not for long.


Sorry I wasn't paying attention to what is officially spoiled and what are rumors. Let's just say out of the 3 mythic legendary eldrazi, it are not the 2 from the article I'm worried about



Well, if you want to see the third legendary, just google "emrakul." If you don't want to see him quite yet, then take my word for it that he is akward to destroy, but not moreso than progenitus. Just to name a few ways to deal with him:


Executioner's Capsule, seal of doom, Attrition, opposition, Royal Assassin, Goldmeadow Harrier, Whipcorder, Icy Manipulator, etc.

PS: personal favorite way to deal with progenitus: circle of protection: white. lol :D

I'm looking forward to the Planeswalkers set too. I reckon that'll be when we get the Treetop Jacers effect, which is quite a fun prospect



I wouldn't mind a planeswalker block either. Instead of tying everything together with a plane, the block could be tied up with an epic story and cross multiple planes!



Ooh... I really like that multi-plane idea!  I hope someone is listening!
The third legendary Eldrazi is now public, via today's Arcana.
They've done quite a good job of making (two of the three) legendary Eldrazi hard to deal with.

Kozilek is easily solvable. Basically any non-toughness/damage-based removal will hit him. Terror, Path, tapper, Cancel, etc. You'd really better have the removal spell saved for him, though, because like all of them, he'll wreck your board if he's unanswered.

Ulamog can't be Terrored or hit with Executioner's Capsule, but can be Pacified, Arrested, Fettered etc, put in an O-Ring or Journey to Nowhere, or sent on the Path to Exile, as well as being tapped by anything like Goldmeadow Harrier or Master Decoy... hmm, seems like white is best at dealing with Ulamog :P Since white is my favourite colour, I don't mind ;) Countermagic will also work. As with Kozilek, bounce will vaguely help, particularly if they used a number of Spawn to be able to afford him, but it's somewhat suboptimal due to the casting trigger.

Emrakul can't be hit by Terror, Path, Condemn, or Pacifism/Arrest/Fetters, or countered. But she can be put into an Oblivion Ring or Journey to Nowhere (since their abilities trigger while they're permanents not spells), shot with an Executioner's Capsule, or tapped down by anything with the kind of ability Master Decoy has.

So basically, white's fine. Black is somewhat hampered but has a number of options. (Discard will sortof-work on all of them - force a reshuffle at least.) Blue has good odds for Kozilek and Ulamog; not so much Emrakul, apart from Fatestitcher-style tappers.
Red and Green... yeah, you're spooned. Hope to draw an Elvish Skysweeper, which can take down Emrakul on its own - now there's a hilarious mental image! :D
I'm confused by the "new tweak on the anti-reanimation clause".  Has mill really become such a powerfull strategy that they needed a way to counteract all decking strategies that don't involve a planeswalker?
I'm confused by the "new tweak on the anti-reanimation clause".  Has mill really become such a powerfull strategy that they needed a way to counteract all decking strategies that don't involve a planeswalker?

It's just the most straightforward way of saying "No Entomb/Exhume shenanigans for you!"
It also has the added bonus of saying to bad players, "Hey, if Mr. Lucksack over there mills out your super fattie, he's not gone forever!"

There isn't a grand conspiracy to make mill suck - it does that that just fine by itself, unless it has help from its brutal friends.
I'm confused by the "new tweak on the anti-reanimation clause".  Has mill really become such a powerfull strategy that they needed a way to counteract all decking strategies that don't involve a planeswalker?



Well, I'm thinking it was probably worded this way for flavor reasons, something along the lines:
"Not only can you only delay them not get rid of them "permenantly," but even trying to do so helps its caster by recycling all other spells that have been cast so far."

Essentially, it was to make them stand out from previous fatties with the old clause.

Although I do understand your point. If there are any mana ramp eldrazi decks running around (which their most certainly will), it will be impossible for mill to show its face at all
Well... impossible unless there's any Cranial Extraction, Extirpate, or similar effect. Anything to exile cards from the library. Heck, even Jester's Cap would do.

If there isn't any such, then yes, mill will be impossible... though if there's basically no mill cards in Standard, this doesn't seem a huge problem. Casual mill decks can still play Leyline of the Void, Neverending Torment, and suchlike.
The third legendary Eldrazi is now public, via today's Arcana.
They've done quite a good job of making (two of the three) legendary Eldrazi hard to deal with.

Kozilek is easily solvable. Basically any non-toughness/damage-based removal will hit him. Terror, Path, tapper, Cancel, etc. You'd really better have the removal spell saved for him, though, because like all of them, he'll wreck your board if he's unanswered.

Ulamog can't be Terrored or hit with Executioner's Capsule, but can be Pacified, Arrested, Fettered etc, put in an O-Ring or Journey to Nowhere, or sent on the Path to Exile, as well as being tapped by anything like Goldmeadow Harrier or Master Decoy... hmm, seems like white is best at dealing with Ulamog :P Since white is my favourite colour, I don't mind ;) Countermagic will also work. As with Kozilek, bounce will vaguely help, particularly if they used a number of Spawn to be able to afford him, but it's somewhat suboptimal due to the casting trigger.

Emrakul can't be hit by Terror, Path, Condemn, or Pacifism/Arrest/Fetters, or countered. But she can be put into an Oblivion Ring or Journey to Nowhere (since their abilities trigger while they're permanents not spells), shot with an Executioner's Capsule, or tapped down by anything with the kind of ability Master Decoy has.

So basically, white's fine. Black is somewhat hampered but has a number of options. (Discard will sortof-work on all of them - force a reshuffle at least.) Blue has good odds for Kozilek and Ulamog; not so much Emrakul, apart from Fatestitcher-style tappers.
Red and Green... yeah, you're spooned. Hope to draw an Elvish Skysweeper, which can take down Emrakul on its own - now there's a hilarious mental image! :D

Black has Diabolic Edict. 'Nuff said.

The reason for the reshuffle clause is to pump up Oath.
Rise of the Eldrazi
is the first time we've rebooted the mechanics without rebooting the creative.



How about Odyssey (or however it's spelled) into Onslaught?
Same plane, same continent even, storyline continues, only there are suddenly wildly different creature types living northside...

Aah how I miss those days where stories could be grand enough to span more than a year. At least Scars of Mirrodin gives hope in returning to one of those 1-year-offs! But then again, the awesomeness of the likely second set's name is dampened by the likely third set's name...

OT: Eldrazi... I'm a little worried we're going to have to ban them in our casual multiplayer group as they are really over the top. The Annihalator mechanic makes it even impossible for Spike Weaver to hold the ground who could stop earlier ones like Progenitus and Darksteel, but aside from that they look interesting =) 2 common ones even! Pauper deck in the making!

I like the "joke" how even their common scouts would be mythic legends on a normal card =)

O, one other thing:

It became quickly apparent that the only existing card type that made sense was creature.



I would've liked to hear why Planeswalker would not be a good fit. Flavorwise, Mechanic-wise, too early in Planeswalker's development? It would not be practical as printing 2 common planeswalker scouts might be a little bit to early. Then again, one of these days (years) we should get a Kamigawa meets Planeswalkers, as in a set where every mythic (which is actually not as much as every rare, so no overload) was a Planeswalker, and then the second and third set would show evolutions of those.


Storywise they are specifically stripped of the ability to planeswalk. Also, there ins't a mechanic that allows for "rogue" Planeswalkers to actually attack (unless you make them a creature). They don't have power or toughness... they have loyalty counters, then "planeswalk away". They did give them long names, meaning they could do another version.... These would be a good inclusion in the upcomming Archenemy set or in the follow up to Planechase. Planechase was developed "outside" the ability to add Planeswalkers because of the timing. There are definately alternate games that could be played but the needed cards wouldn't fit in current sets... design time is too long.

I often wish WotC would do "out of band" new cards in special sets not necessarily part of standard tournaments.  There's things that would work in Archenemy (raid) decks, Planechase, EDH, and non-format legal multiplayer decks (more mixed-block cards like Time Spiral with mechanics that can't ever be together) I'd like to see serious stuff rather than "un" stuff, even if it was just in very small non-random decks... maybe even add a new color border or something.

I like the idea of leveling with the "flip legend" mechanic of Kamigawa. Attain so many levels, then flip to legendary super mode. I do see a similar thing could be done with planeswalkers.... somebody like Venser or Chandra that in the story became a planeswalker. The mechanics would get to complex for a normal set.

on another note... back on track of stopping big baddies, could Unscythe stop the "feldon's cane" effect of the mega-eldrazi?  It exiles as soon as the creature hits the graveyard.... would that immediate effect in combat take place before the "cane" effect?   The other way around "Annihalator" might be to run token heavy decks. "Annihalator" targets only permenants! Pump a deck full of cheap token makers, and cheap equipment  and enchantments.... the main problem is getting a good card drawing engine, or carefully hiding your important permenants in "exile" effects. Even Eldrazi Spawn tokens are immune from Annihalator and produce mana!
I'm confused by the "new tweak on the anti-reanimation clause".  Has mill really become such a powerfull strategy that they needed a way to counteract all decking strategies that don't involve a planeswalker?



Well, I'm thinking it was probably worded this way for flavor reasons, something along the lines:
"Not only can you only delay them not get rid of them "permenantly," but even trying to do so helps its caster by recycling all other spells that have been cast so far."

Essentially, it was to make them stand out from previous fatties with the old clause.

Although I do understand your point. If there are any mana ramp eldrazi decks running around (which their most certainly will), it will be impossible for mill to show its face at all



I think the idea is that the reanimator prevention also stuffs their deck as a side effect... do you really want to be in the middle of the game with a freshly stacked 50+ cards?  There's lots of "board clearing" in the set right now and getting Eldrazi out will require proper "engines" of mana expensive cards. Now, cards like Archive Trap can bite the caster worse than the recipient when they stuff the graveyard with expensive spells to reanimate. As a double-cross you might just hit an Eldrazi and reset the other guy's deck rather than mill it. Late game after a Nova Wurm clears the board, it might be really useful to mill an Eldrazi and wipe out their whole graveyard. The key with Eldrazi will be things like Ice Cage, Path to Exile, Twitch, unsummon, and Pacify.... find ways to slow them down or exile them without killing them. I haven't seen any with activated abilities, meaning to get the "bomb" effect they have to be "hardcast" several have ways of blocking, spells: One is just a draw, one is indestructable, one has protection from colored spells.... Drop a Painter's Servent in response to All is Dust! He's colorless! Put Pacifism on our indestructible guy.
i wish he related how ghost fire related to this set in future sight

The biggest Vorthos Ever I'd rather have an awesome mechanic than the most flavor any day. Constantly coming up with cards all the time. So if you see a card you like tell me. Constantly trying to get into card of the week if you see a card you like please nominate.

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