[Archetype]The Rock

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What is The Rock?  



The Rock is a GB, GBW, GBU or GBR Midrange deck that utilizes the best spells in those colors to easily crush your opponent. Once it gets going you will be swinging with large creatures putting your opponent on the defensive. It's one of the most flexible archetypes because you can run it aggro, midrange, control or any mixture. Pick your flavor, The Rock's got it. The key to every Rock deck is effective creatures backed with disruption. Add in some tempo and synergy to get the ball rolling and a strong deck you can make.

Divider BG






How do you play The Rock?
Just like with previous versions of The Rock your objective is to bring the efficient beaters into play as soon as possible. You can also opt to take a more controllish approach to bring your creatures in a little slower but perhaps without them being countered/destroyed/etc. Then you finish off the opponent by getting your army in unblocked or trampling.

"Perhaps the best thing about The Rock is that while it allows a careful master to play into difficult wins, it also punishes the careless. While a Red Deck can top that last burn spell after a catastrophic string of mistakes, and many other decks can luck into a win on the sheer strength of their combination pieces, The Rock has no such luxury." -Michael Flores 'Live Coverage of 2005 Pro Tour Columbus'
Divider WGB

Card Options and Choices(UNDER CONSTRUCTION !GB Only!)


Lands
Verdant  Catacombs - Enemy color fetch in both colors yes please.
Misty  Rainforest - Fetch for green.
Marsh Flats - Fetch for black.
Evolving Wilds - Great for fixing on your opponents turn (beat the CIPT)
Terramorphic Expanse -  Original Evolving Wilds. Another thinner at the cost of CIPT without the life loss.
Gargoyle Castle - Not the best manland in the world but it does give you an evasive answer to opposing GSS, it also provides a blocker in a pinch.
Quicksand - A card it seems was forgotten, I would suggest in an aggro heavy format.
Tectonic  Edge - It's ability to kill manlands is pretty tech right now, and it might warrent a few slots depending on the build and your meta.
Forest -  Really important to have these.
Swamp - Really important to have these.

1-Drop Creatures
Birds of Paradise - Great 1-drop for the Rock Archetype. It provides color fixing and ramp. The birds also can act as a 'lightning rod' to draw removal.
Protean Hydra - Has the potential to be a beast in a build with massive ramp. Best suited for aggro formats.
Feral Hydra - Protean Hydra's big brother. He's better suited for mid-range/control metas since you can continue to pump him.
1-Drop Spells
Duress - Great disruption for the Archetype. Strong against the majority of the 'general' meta, especially
with the rise of Mid-Range/Control decks as of late. The choice between this and IoK is meta based.
Inquisition of Kozilek - More great disruption for the Archetype. Better suited against heavy aggro metas. The choice between this and Duress is meta based.
Deathmark - Extreme meta dependant card. Sideboard only.
Basilisk Collar - Makes your creatres better threats. Great with Master of the Wild Hunt.
Pithing  Needle - Great catch all answer to a lot of the meta right now, SB material at best but there is potential for running 1-2 MD to hit a lot of decks game 1.

2-Drop Creatures
Putrid Leech - Awesome 2-drop for the Archetype. One of the strongest creatures in the current Standard and for good reason, being an effective beater.
Lotus Cobra - Great ramp/color fixer for the Archetype. Pushes out your threats quicker than the opponent can deal with. It's also, at times, another 'lightning rod' drawing removal.
Bloodghast - A pretty decent 2-drop, its main benefit is the Landfall Recursion.
Black Knight - Solid creature that some metas may call for. First strike helps against RDW and Pro-White is becoming ever more important.
Vampire  Hexmage - Good defense, eats up Planeswalkers. First Strike helps against RDW.
Gatekeeper of Malakir -  Great 2 for 1 removal. BBB can be difficult for the manabase though.
2-Drop Spells
Sign in Blood - Good card draw at the cost of a little life. Hard on the manabase but, can be worth it.
Grim Discovery - Returns Creatures and/or Lands from the grave for another go around. Great if you're going with heavy disruption with Acidic Slime, Mold Shambler or Tectonic Edge.
Doom Blade - Good kill spell in a meta with a lack of Vampires. I wouldn't recommend main decking it but, makes a great sideboard card.
Smother - Good in heavy aggro metas. More of a sideboard card.

3-Drop Creatures
Fleshbag  Marauder - Best Gatekeeper substitute. Doubly good in Persecutor builds for his dual edict effects. Even better when paired with Grim Discovery.
Vampire Nighthawk - Great 3-drop for the Archetype and is good in every MU. Very efficient in power/cost. Can be somewhat of a hassle for the mana base but, just barely so, especially with Birds of Paradise.
Arrogant Bloodlord - Good choice for aggro metas. Possible inclusion in an aggro build.
Mul-Daya Channelers - Great in heavy creature builds. Even better with fetches!
Bloodhusk Ritualist - The creature heavy Rock's Mind Shatter.
Hypnotic Specter - Good for heavy disruption builds.
Oracle  of Mul Daya - Once she hits the board mana problems tend to go away. She gives good card advantage and has excellent interaction with landfall cards. With fetches she also has a pseudo tutor affect. She's best in a deck running 26+ lands.
Borderland Ranger - He fills several roles, he fixes mana, thins the deck,and that's just his 187. He can act as a chump blocker if you need to play the control deck and he has an average body, if you're playing aggro. If he gets in for 2 or 4 his day should be near over.
Great Sable Stag - This seasons GSS is pretty good, efficiently costed body with great attachments. It's more of a sideboard card but, cirten metas may dictate his mainboardability.
Royal  Assassin - Repeatable removal is really good. He really shines against mythic and other creature heavy decks. Provides massive card advantage if he sticks around.
3-Drop Spells
Maelstrom Pulse - An auto-include. Great in every MU.
Realms Uncharted - Fixes your mana and thins your deck greatly while guaranteeing your next two land drops.
Mind Shatter - Great disruption card. Better with cobra ramp.
Mind Rot - G/B's Blightning minus the burn. Good disruption at a reasonable cost.
Awakening Zone - Provides a constant stream of blockers, rampers or fodder for Monument, if you choose to go that route.
Harrow - Decent ramp, good with Grim discovery. Great with landfall guys.
Sadistic  Sacrament - SB combo killer, tripple black is hard but not impossible, in ramp builds it could wreck an opponent.

4-Drop Creatures
Abyssal Persecutor - Highly effective beater. They only downside is that you usually have to remove him yourself.
Master of the Wild Hunt - Great card that acts as both a threat producer and reuseable removal.
Wolf-Brier Elemental - A good threat producer in ramp heavy builds.
Vengevine - Some people are using him. I guess he's fine in creature heavy builds with an aggressive curve.
Mold Shambler - Great for land disruption. Superb against control.
4-Drop Spells
Garruk Wildspeaker - The best Planeswalker for the Archetype. Fixes mana while ramping, Produces threats and pushes your creatures to the next level.
Momentous Fall - Cards and life at the expense of a creature. Best when used in response to removal.
Consuming Vapors - Two creatures dead plus life. Gets around shroud and can, in some cases, act as a Time Warp.

5-Drop Creatures
Thornling - Great choice as a finisher in Rock for it's built-in utility.
Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief - Great beater in heavy ramp builds. Acts as reuseable removal.
Malikir Bloodwitch - A meta dependant beater.
Acidic Slime - Great disruption card. Good against control also.
Ob Nixilis, the Fallen - This guy is nice  for agro decks after Thornling. It is better to tune your deck towards him using high numbers of fetch lands and interaction with other creatures such as Oracle or Knight.
Lord of Extinction - The non goyf goyf.  His high cmc and lack of evasion point to him as a no in most cases. I see hime being strongest in a GWB build with Elspeth and the Stoneforge package.
5-Drop Spells
Eldrazi Monument - Good for heavy creature builds and/or alongside Master of the Wild Hunt and/or Awakening Zone.
Liliana Vess - The disruption walker. Great for nore controling builds.
Consume the Meek - Relevant Sweeper hellooo. Aka: SMoG

6-Drop Creatures
Rampaging Baloth - Constant threat producer with Landfall and, an effective creature in it's own right.
6-Drop Spells
Sorin Markov - 6cmc hurts this guy, he has repeatable removal with lifegain (it also hits planeswalkers),  there is also the case of instant board presence with him hitting the board and putting your opponent at 10 life. His ultimate is something to be desired here, but it has a use if you need to swing all out or want to use some of your opponent's resources to get you where you're going.








Divider BUG

B-Wiz Rock's GB/GBU/GBW/GBW Control







GBW Rock


Extinction Junk Rock
[deck]
// Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Marsh Flats
3 Sunpetal Grove
2 Stirring Wildwood
5 Swamp
3 Forest
2 Plains
1 Sejiri Steppe
// Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Lord of Extinction
2 Master of the Wild Hunt
2 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Lotus Cobra
// Spells
3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Behemoth Sledge
4 Path to Exile
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Mind Shatter
2 Gideon Jura
1 Basilisk Collar
// Sideboard
1 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Dauntless Escort
3 Royal Assassin
3 Celestial Purge
1 Bojuka Bog
[/deck]














U.M.s Ob. Nix. 1000 post rock


green cards: 14
lotus cobra
explore
harrow
2 garruk wildspeaker
2 master of the wild hunt

black cards: 14
ob nixilis, the fallen
smother
inquisition of kozilek
vampire nighthawk
3 grim discovery
 
gold/multicolor cards:10
putrid leech
4 maelstrom pulse
2 lord of extinction

lands: 22
4 verdent catacombs
8 swamp
8 forest

sideboard: 15
2 mind shatter
4 pithing needle
3 consume the meek
3 awakening zone
3 fleshbag marauder

this deck works,  it goes for hand and mana control of your own the first few turns, smothering really bad threats, and helping you out on the way. you stall out until turn 4 then you let them have it.  vampire nighthawk destroys nearly all win cons, the leeches are nasty walls that alpha strike like no ones business. ob nix is a win condition but not the only one, lord of extinction is a nasty nasty beater that they need to waste some of their hardcore whatnot or get beaten down, all in the meanwhile you laugh mightily as a twisted nature mage would, as you know not everything once killed stays doen and grim discovery swoops in to save the day to help your fallen comrades and ultimately they stop and lose to your superior skills.










MDavis6565 Junk Rock


Bunk Sculpture
-----------------

23 Lands
----------
3x  Forest
2x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Island
4x  Verdant Catacombs
3x Misty Rainforest
2x  Terramorphic Expanse
2x Sejiri Steppe
2x Marsh  Flats
1x Stirring Wildwood

27 Creatures
--------------
4x  Birds of Paradise
3x Noble Hierarch
4x Lotus  Cobra
3x Tidehollow Sculler
4x Knight of the  Reliquary
3x Master of the Wild Hunt
3x  Thornling
3x Baneslayer Angel

11 Other Spells
------------------
4x  Maelstrom Pulse
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4x  Mind Shatter

Sideboard
-----------
3x Pithing  Needle
3x Celestial Purge
3x Negate
3x  Royal Assassin
3x Dauntless Escort

Gameplay
-----------
With  this deck you often have a lot of options available regularly that you  must chose between carefully in order to maximize your match win %, but  it has postive match win % for me with several Tier 1 decks.

Vs.  Aggro
----------
Turn 3 is critical but in most cases you will  have 5+ mana.  4 is ok as well but 3 means you are hurting.  Ideally you  want to play mind shatter here maybe even if you only have 4.  It is  still a 2:1 at 4 and sometimes thats all you need but think about what  you will be doing after you play it and judge it from that.  If you do  not have shatter play down from the best creatures/walkers you have.  It  is OK to play defensively because in the long run your threats will be  better.

Vs. Control
------------
Control has multiple  approaches but you want to prevent the massive card advantage they can  generate.  Play creatures conservatively (bottom up instead of top  down).  You can also hold cards if you are threat light.  Shatter when  you can take most of their hand rather then as early as possible and  hold reserve shatters for mind springs.  If a knight stays reserve him  for sejiri protection.

Vs. Combo
------------
This is not  too much different then vs. agro except that you will want to be more  aggresive.  Kill them as quickly as you can, board in extra control, and  always reserve it for key pieces - pretty straight forward.






Toryu's Rock v1.2

// Lands
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Evolving Wilds
9 Swamp
8 Forest

// Creatures
4 Vengevine
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Malakir  Bloodwitch
4 Borderland Ranger
4 Black Knight

//  Spells
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Mind Rot
4 Doom Blade
2 Liliana Vess

//  Sideboard
4 Pithing Needle
4 Duress
3 Sadistic Sacrament
4 Royal Assassin







Alright! Let's get the discussion going!

*Banner and dividers by Toryu




*Updated on 06/11/2010

Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.
Obviously, people like the rock strategy. Just look and Jund and Junk. Why is it no one cares about regular BG Rock? It just needs worked with, that's all.

What do you think about these changes to my deck:
-3 Necrogenesis -1 Fleashbag
+4 Mind Rot
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.
so i tested your deck b-wiz, here are the results
against jund-70-30, because what happens is you outspeed jund and they stay off tempo the entire match, then switching in the basilisk game 2 messes them up severely but watch for the pulses, that is the problem wjhen they mass blam your big guys.

vammps-50-50  depends on how many highborns/bloodghast hit the field on their side, because you smash their stuff and with the ghasts they keep coming back and highborns=annoying.

RDW-70-30 you keep up with the fatties, you block their t3 ball lightning with a leech, then you play persecutor they are hosed.

naya-40-60 the mass lifegain=very annoying to deal with.


my deck- I WANNA ROCK
description- you dump relevant fatties and keep going until they drop
the bloodwitch is very hard to deal with and most of the creatures are very utility creatures, this deck is versitle enough to run over many decks

matches-
jund-60-40 if you can drag it on they run into topdeck mode and my deck does have dopdecks to keep up with it, but if they blightning you twice in a row, thats it for the deck that game x_x

RDW-75-25it gets absolutly hosed by the ghasts/leechs. i on the offencive t2 and up, then when they play stuff it dies lol

boros-50-50 bit more annoying because really large cat-pain at times but kill those and you will be ok. also watch out for path's that messed me up and my tempo royally.

naya-55-45 i do a little better against them because my stuff just keeps recurring, and stay big, garruk soaks up damage like a wall and is a good finisher against this. also side in the bloodwitch g2 that seriously hoses them lol

U/W control-30-70 this deck whoops this because of when i try to stop them they counter it and then jace you out of existance, stags are the best heklp you can have with this deck.
havent tried vamps yet
w00t hit my 1000th post on 4/25/2010
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56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
Show
63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]

I hope you don't mind that I made an archetype thread. I figured it'll get more attention this way hince better decks. Thanks for the testing, I've updated the OP with all the information you gave me. I've been working on a different Rock build after a lot of searching and reviewing past and current rock decks(jund/junk) as well as reading rock deck building theory. It's heavily weighed on G with a light to moderate B splash. The benifits of 'going green' is that your mana is better fixed and you have bigger and better threats available to you. This one is more threat orientated that ever featuring even more fatties! So for in the limited testing i've done it's 1-1(matches) against Jund and a 2/3(60%) chance of winning. What do you think about the heavy G list?


Rock's Edge V2


// Lands
3 Tectonic Edge
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Savage Lands
4 Swamp
5 Forest
3 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
// Creatures
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Putrid Leech
2 Borderland Ranger
3 Thornling
3 Leatherback Baloth
3 Master of the Wild Hunt
// Spells
4 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Bone Splinters
4 Mind Rot
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
3 Grim Discovery

// Sideboard
4 Deathmark
3 Infest
4 Duress
4 Great Sable Stag
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.
i like the archetype thread idea, it needs a bannor though... i'll go work on that lol


your list does look good, but how would it do against vamps? because if a nocturnus or a bloodwitch got off the ground you are hosed. you need flying defense
w00t hit my 1000th post on 4/25/2010
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Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both selfish and instinctive. I value growth and community, as long as they favour my own objectives; I enjoy nature, and I particularly enjoy watching parts of nature die. At best, I am resilient and tenacious; at worst, I'm uncontrollable and destructive.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
Show
63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]
also why did you go with the bone splinters over the marauders? yes splinters is basically a slightly less good innocent blood but the fleshbag was a sacker with a body.
w00t hit my 1000th post on 4/25/2010
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I am Black/Green
I am Black/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both selfish and instinctive. I value growth and community, as long as they favour my own objectives; I enjoy nature, and I particularly enjoy watching parts of nature die. At best, I am resilient and tenacious; at worst, I'm uncontrollable and destructive.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
Show
63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]
here we go
w00t hit my 1000th post on 4/25/2010
Show
I am Black/Green
I am Black/Green
Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both selfish and instinctive. I value growth and community, as long as they favour my own objectives; I enjoy nature, and I particularly enjoy watching parts of nature die. At best, I am resilient and tenacious; at worst, I'm uncontrollable and destructive.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
Show
63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]
Against Vamps, I still have my removal plus Master and on top of that I have a flying blocker of needed. Splinter targets, maurder doesn't. Fleashbag was a more build dependent card, since I got rid of the Persecutors and Necrogenesis they kind became un-needed. I think you mean Bone Splinters is a way better innocent blood.. Since it targets. I have been thinking that I don't much need the Ranger. Thoughts on replacements? Maybe 2 Soul's Majesty? On another note you should condense your posts please.

Thanks for the banner also! ^_^
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.
Against Vamps, I still have my removal plus Master and on top of that I have a flying blocker of needed. Splinter targets, maurder doesn't. Fleashbag was a more build dependent card, since I got rid of the Persecutors and Necrogenesis they kind became un-needed. I think you mean Bone Splinters is a way better innocent blood.. Since it targets. I have been thinking that I don't much need the Ranger. Thoughts on replacements? Maybe 2 Soul's Majesty? On another note you should condense your posts please.

Thanks for the banner also! ^_^



to be fair, innocent blood doesn't require you to sac a creature of yours lol also your welcome about the banner, i'd suggest over the borderland ranger i'd go with either soul's majesty or windstorm just to go stomp fliers and helps against bsa as well.

i'm sorry about not condensing, i just type and post as i think, which isn't always good but it works most of the time.
w00t hit my 1000th post on 4/25/2010
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Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both selfish and instinctive. I value growth and community, as long as they favour my own objectives; I enjoy nature, and I particularly enjoy watching parts of nature die. At best, I am resilient and tenacious; at worst, I'm uncontrollable and destructive.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
Show
63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]
Yeah, it does... Each Player sacs a creature... lol. I was thinking Soul's Majesty over the Ranger. He doesn't see much play. Either that or +1 Baloth +1 Master.
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.
Thoughts on the switch?
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.

Soul's Majesty is blehh.

The list Im working on features Birds, Persecutor, and Hypnotic Specter.  Turn two, thats pretty deadly.  I need to pick up some master of the wild hunt as well.  Leech and Pulse are also shoo-ins.


It seems you have dropped Persecutor.  Why?

fleshbag maurader + grim discovery = yes

and sign in blood is going to be a better more reliable draw spell than soul's majesty.  naya and junk are about the only places where soul's majesty should even be considered.

and i'd love to see hyppies in here

is it too much to ask for gargoyle castle along with the tectonics for more goodness with grims?  i'd say the mana base could go 4 savage lands, 4 verdant catacombs, and 2-3 terramorphic expanses with 2-3 tectonic edges, and maybe 1-2 gargoyle castles with your oran-riefs.  i think you could up the land count to 25-26 and drop the birds.  would give you more business too.  birds in rock during lightning bolt/fast removal standard are just not great or reliable.

those are my recommendations anyways

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SSX - I only dropped Percy in the G heavy build. I actually have 2, a GB build and a Gb build. They're both in the OP. I got tired of fighting the mana in the GB build and instead of fixing the problem I decided to try a G heavy version, which is actually better on the manabase, and it isn't that bad. Once I dropped the fleshbag, he pretty much had to go. I'm still debating on which build I like the most, while compiling a potential card pool for a GB deck.

Burning Forest - "fleshbag maurader + grim discovery = yes" Exactly. Bone Splinter's + Grim Discovery is pretty cool too. Yes, SiB would be a better draw overall but, the loss of life scares me a bit. Especially since this is a midrange deck, not an all or nothing aggro. If I were to use SiB i'd have to play Grazing Gladeheart to help compensate for the immense life loss from it, leech and the fetches along with what's caused by the opponent. Hyppies are cool, they're great actually but, the 3-drop is so clogged as it is with 12 in the Gb version and 11 in the Original. I just would know where to squeeze them in the current list(s). Birds, especially in the original list is really needed as I have real tough mana requirements. I haven't faced down too many people who use a kill spell on the BoP, I might just be lucky in that department. I know with all my research on the Rock archetype, past builds and all, they almost all include the BoP probably because it help ramp you into your more costly spells. The difference is that they had GB duels which we are desperately needing so not only do the BoP ramp us but also fixes our mana. In a heavy G/B splash g/b build they're probably not needed though. Gargoyle Castle is cool, I actually never even thought about it before. It scares me having a lot more colorless lands though, in these decks with hefty mana requirements and something as simple as tec edge sets me back a turn unless I have BoP out.



Feel free to start tweaking your lists, if you come across one you like Post it along with a general description and a few test matches and/or statistics.
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.
it is true that most past rock list ran birds.  but the difference between then and in fact any of the old lists relying on birds, llanowar, noble, deep shadow, etc. was that they didn't have lightning bolt in the format.  when i was playing fast bant with 8 mana dorks, i swear at least 50 of the time i'd meet my opener with a bolt.  its just my thought.  i'd say that even rampant growth would be better as you're turn 2 isn't going to be that clogged.  and SiB's loss of life won't be that relevent, especially if you played vampire nighthawk or something.  but really, i just wouldn't worry about it.

i forgot the list, are you running a bunch of discard?  seems good right now.  and also, i figured that by going 25 lands and with the "duals" i proposed, you might be able to get away with the 5 colorless lands.  although, maybe 26 lands would be better.

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

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Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

With the Original, B-Wiz Rock, i've lost games that otherwise could have been won from the life loss caused by Putrid and the fetches alone. Be it, I was pumping rather stupidly and fell into the bolt/path trap often which could have had an impact. I wouldn't say a lot. I run 4 Mind Rots main with 4 duress in the side. I've tried a similer list to the original with 25 lands and birds. While the mana was better, during the mid to late game I find that i'm top-decking lands instead of gas. If I upped the land count to 25 or 26 i'd almost have to put in SiB to compensate for the top-decks. It is an idea worth testing though. Do you have a list in mind?
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.
I was trying out a Green heavy list of my own a couple weeks ago.  I was running Bestial Menace/Oran-Rief shananigans...was sexy.  I think Scute Mob should be added to that card pool as well.  You dont play it as a 4-of.  Play 2 for mid-late game heroics.  Also consider Avenger of Zendikar.

I think Birds should still be run either way.  If the opponent is going to spend removal on my one-drop, Im all for that.  Especially when its an 0/1.  Birds can lead to some very explosive starts, not to mention help fixing mana as well.  If they bolt my turn one Bird, my turn two Leech becomes an even larger threat.
How does Vampire Nighthawk do in this deck? It seems like one of the better 3 drops in the G/B
Photobucket
The Avenger is pretty cool. My only fear is how costly he is. He does have synergy with Garruk though so he's worth considering.

I actually haven't tested Nighthawk in either of these deck yet. He is solid though and i'm going to try to find room for him somewhere. As his lifelink should negate the loss from the fetches, leeches and SiB if it goes in.
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.
The Avenger is pretty cool. My only fear is how costly he is. He does have synergy with Garruk though so he's worth considering.

I actually haven't tested Nighthawk in either of these deck yet. He is solid though and i'm going to try to find room for him somewhere. As his lifelink should negate the loss from the fetches, leeches and SiB if it goes in.



so i tested nighthawk in my rock deck and he is very useful, i replaced the b-ghast with it and it works, throwing yet more hard hitting painful creatures for the opponent, i'd like to filter the bloodghasts back in but i'm not sure what to replace for them  Frown
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56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
Show
63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]
Post your list and i'll see what changes could be made if you'd like. Plus, I can update the OP.
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.
i personally think rock is not only viable but i really want to see one of these run at a big tourney 0_O
w00t hit my 1000th post on 4/25/2010
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Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
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I am both selfish and instinctive. I value growth and community, as long as they favour my own objectives; I enjoy nature, and I particularly enjoy watching parts of nature die. At best, I am resilient and tenacious; at worst, I'm uncontrollable and destructive.

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56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
Show
63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]
Could this work without Pulse?
@mancer - I'd love to see a plain GB rock deck do well at tournaments! Instead of Jund or Junk..
@doc - I really don't know. It might be able to so long as you have some other removal and 4 Acidic Slimes.

I have came up with a new build which i'm making my main. It's in the OP but here it is.
4 Verdant Catacombs
6 Swamp
5 Forest
3 Terramorphic Expanse
3 Tectonic Edge
3 Savage Lands
// Creatures
4 Putrid Leech
4 Master of the Wild Hunt
3 Acidic Slime
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Hypnotic Specter
// Spells
4 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Sign in Blood
3 Grim Discovery
3 Mind Rot
// Sideboard
3 Deathmark
4 Great Sable Stag
2 Pithing Needle
3 Vampire Hexmage
3 Malakir Bloodwitch
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.
Here's the real Q: What does this deck have over Jund?

Why play this over Jund? There really isn't a good reason.

@mancer: 0_o 
Photobucket Team GFG - Glux's Fine Gents
Could this work without Pulse?



doubtful

Blue is the best color ever. How do you deal?  ------------------------------  Team GFG - "gulf, foxtrot, gulf" 

 

 

I produce Dubstep and House beats:

https://soundcloud.com/burning_forest

 

Best Pauper Deck in the format, not close:

http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2974646#comment-49713276

 

Photobucket

An easier manabase. Tec Edge, Grim Discovery, Acidic Slime(my list) all of which wreck Jund. I've only tested one match with the current decklist and destroied it. The loss of cascade sucks but, the easier manabase and land denial makes it stronger IMO. I all previous testing i've done with my various GB decks that i've been tweaking the Jund MU is about 50-50. I'm just looking for that bit to push it over the edge.
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.
Here's the real Q: What does this deck have over Jund?

Why play this over Jund? There really isn't a good reason.

@mancer: 0_o 



@glux:o_0, also this over jund because
A. hoses jund really well by the not splashing a third mana base
B. its more flexable and is the type of deck with much versitility whereas jund is all one way set up and thats it. t1 land, t2 leech, thrinax then bbe, that is jund, this at least this is a different play styles associated with it.
C. finally it has the advantage of being a suprise that people will not be as ready for, so that siding in the firewalker is useless.
D. it still has some of the better creatures in the game.  and its mana curve is really low as well, so it can keep up with alot of decks, and can switch between aggro and mid-range really easily whereas no other deck in the meta can really claim that as well. there are so many good green and black spells that many ideas and builds are available.
@b-wiz:it helps that it is far far more flexable to and can put things in this deck that jund cannot, namely vampy goodness and eldrazi green goodness

@Doc: easily, you replace it with other kill spells, i'd personally go with infest just for the mass kill stuff, and since stuff in here is stronger or recurrable/indestructable, it should do ok.
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56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
Show
63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]
Here's the real Q: What does this deck have over Jund?

Why play this over Jund? There really isn't a good reason.

@mancer: 0_o 



@glux:o_0, also this over jund because
A. hoses jund really well by the not splashing a third mana base
B. its more flexable and is the type of deck with much versitility whereas jund is all one way set up and thats it. t1 land, t2 leech, thrinax then bbe, that is jund, this at least this is a different play styles associated with it.
C. finally it has the advantage of being a suprise that people will not be as ready for, so that siding in the firewalker is useless.
D. it still has some of the better creatures in the game.  and its mana curve is really low as well, so it can keep up with alot of decks, and can switch between aggro and mid-range really easily whereas no other deck in the meta can really claim that as well. there are so many good green and black spells that many ideas and builds are available.
@b-wiz:it helps that it is far far more flexable to and can put things in this deck that jund cannot, namely vampy goodness and eldrazi green goodness

@Doc: easily, you replace it with other kill spells, i'd personally go with infest just for the mass kill stuff, and since stuff in here is stronger or recurrable/indestructable, it should do ok.



I don't think i'd choose infest over pulse. Reason being you'd want to be able to destroy any creature not just a bunch of x/<3 guys. Infest is a good SB though..

Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.

No Birds in that most recent list B-Wiz?  Turn two Nighthawk or Specter is nice, not to mention getting Garruk or Master online a turn earlier.  I dont like Sign in Blood at all.  A decent card at best.  It only nets you 1 card for 2 life.  Smother fills that slot nicely.  You really dont have much removal. (I dont count Master since you have to untap with him.)

Pulse is needed, no ifs ands or buts.


Tectonic Edge + Grim Discovery is the reason to play this over Jund.

You know, I was skeptical in running the list without BoP at first. Seeing as it was suggested I figured i'd at least test it. I gotta say, I haven't missed it much, it also lets me run a higher B count because I don't have to worry about having a forest on T1. Not to mention I still have some ramp/fixing available from Grim Discovery and Fetches. About the removal, I'm still iffy on that. I justify the lack for now because Master, Nighthawk and Slime all act as removal in themselves. In time, if testing proves it needed, I will replace Hypnotic Specter with Gatekeeper of Malikar instead of spells because I want a higher creature count for removal heavy decks. Sign in Blood has pulled it's weight so far. With a high land count I need to be able to draw through my lands to cards that will have an impact. Jund had cascade, control has various draw spells and I have SiB. It works good so far. Life loss hasn't been much of an issue but, if it becomes one I can squeeze Grazing Gladeheart in.

-=EDIT=-
Made a small change to the SB in my DL:
-1 GSS -2 Pithing Needle
+3 Infest

Then I did some testing. As it stands i'm 5-1 with my only loss being to 4 Color Cascade. The infest would have helped greatly but I never drew it. That, and with some miniscule mana troubles that's all she wrote.
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.
If you run a high land count, why not try Explore?
It can ramp, and replace itself with no life lost.  Its also easier to cast. 

Just a thought.
That might be worth testing. Or at least a 2/2 split sice SiB really shines in the late game.
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.
Laughingb-wiz i like your current buiold, good job
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56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
Show
63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]
Hey, I appreciate it! It took a lot of testing/editing to get to where it is now and i'm still not sure on some of the card choices. The hardest part though was getting it consistant with the manabase. When I wen GB like I wanted, which was probably the strongest build, the base couldn't support it reliably. The heavy G version, which was good, lacked reach and disruption. Now with the heavy B I feel it's finally gotten into it's groove. I'd still like some more removal though so I might -4 Hippy +4 Gatekeeper if it's really needed.

How's your list and or testing coming along?
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.

4 Marsh Flats
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Sunpetal Grove
4 Forest
3 Plains
1 Swamp
3 Stirring Wildwood

4 Noble Hierarch
4 Lotus Cobra
2 Thornling
4 Baneslayer Angel
3 Dauntless Escort
4 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Emeria Angel
1 Rampaging Baloths


3 Path to Exile
3 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Garruk Wildspeaker



3 Acidic Slime
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Martial Coup
1 Day of Judgment
2 Celestial Purge
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Wall of Reverence



Want to know how to keep a moron busy? Reread this sentence to find out!
That looks like a pretty good 'junk' rock deck. The 1-of Baloth confuses me though. So does the sweeps in the board. I know the have good synergy with the escort and even Elspeth's ultimate but, still. Has it been running well?
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.
That looks like a pretty good 'junk' rock deck. The 1-of Baloth confuses me though. So does the sweeps in the board. I know the have good synergy with the escort and even Elspeth's ultimate but, still. Has it been running well?



i see the point of sweeps, it is good for stabilazion and controlling. the one of baloth is a good random CA win lol

also about my deck, it does really well, my friend played an RDW game yesterday against it. it was kind of rough, but after the onslaught i finally stabilized at 5 life and swung for the win. Laughing
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56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
Show
63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]
What's the list look like? Same as in OP but switch Bloodghasts for Nighthawks?
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.
What's the list look like? Same as in OP but switch Bloodghasts for Nighthawks?



yeah. also -2 master of wild hunt +2 deadly recluse because the recluse is super deathtouch kills stuff left and right.
 i like mine because mine seems more midrange stalling compared to your aggro style b-wiz.   yours is more heavy B mine is more heavy G and i kind of want to see a mix of the 2 0_O
w00t hit my 1000th post on 4/25/2010
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Take The Magic Dual Colour Test - Beta today!
Created with Rum and Monkey's Personality Test Generator.
I am both selfish and instinctive. I value growth and community, as long as they favour my own objectives; I enjoy nature, and I particularly enjoy watching parts of nature die. At best, I am resilient and tenacious; at worst, I'm uncontrollable and destructive.

IMAGE(http://www.wizards.com/magic/images/whatcolor_isblack.jpg)Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.

56859838 wrote:
Well obviously goblins breed at a rate of millions of times per year, thus in a few years they had evolved into a new species... you know or....
Show
63344365 wrote:
Your asking for proof that the ocean is wet, while your standing on the beach.
56733088 wrote:
Are these rankings all anonymus? Can I go rank everybody I think is mafia with 1 star?
•Collecting a complete foil set of Zendikar block both on Magic Online and in paper Magic does not entitle you to one (1) free Richard Garfield. Because that would be slavery, and slavery is bad.
slayer of fluffy, and single handedly annoyed half of the flavor/storyline group in one fell swoop[/sblock]
A mix of the 2 would probably wind up close to my 1st build.. The mana was harsh. Ok, OP UPDATED
Bringing the Rock to Standard. One post at a time.