Shardminds and Warforged Components

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So, reading the Eberron Players Guide. Noticed that the only requirements for Warforged Components only have a single specific one, the player must have the Living Construct racial trait. Shardminds have that.

Does that mean that by RAW Shardminds should be able to use these items? I know RAI might be to have the DM rule against it, but just wondering for the sake of wondering.
So, reading the Eberron Players Guide. Noticed that the only requirements for Warforged Components only have a single specific one, the player must have the Living Construct racial trait. Shardminds have that.

Does that mean that by RAW Shardminds should be able to use these items? I know RAI might be to have the DM rule against it, but just wondering for the sake of wondering.



I don't see why not.

In fact, half of the Shardmind art in PH3 shows a Shardmind with a honking crystalline shield attached to his arm.

I'd allow the players to have the components and refluff them to be crystalline structures instead of wood and steel.

The EPG rules for warforged components say that they are either attached to or embedded in a Warforged. There is no mention of a Shardmind being able to embed or attach the components, so they cannot.   While a Shardmind meets the living construct requirement, they cannot use the items because the items must be attached or embedded.

I don't own the EPG, but checking the Compendium I see that nearly all such components have the line "Special: only a warforged character can use this item." The only exceptions seem to be certain slotted items that are merely attached, not embedded, like the Command Circlet, or Mithral Plating.

So the answer seems to be generally no, with a rare yes.

Um, you might want to recheck that, EasyT. I just looked through the compendium after searching for 'component', and I didnt see that requirement ANYWHERE, except for the Warsoul Weapon and Shoulderbow. That includes other embedded weapons like the Armbow. They all say 'You must have the living construct racial trait' which means they CAN in fact be used by Shardminds.

Edit: Oh, and Final Messenger too.
I admit I only did a cursory scan rather than an exhaustive check of all items. But in addition to what you listed, I also saw the Delver's Light and Final Messenger listed as Warforged-only items.

Edit: I see now that you already listed Final Messenger.
Um, you might want to recheck that, EasyT. I just looked through the compendium after searching for 'component', and I didnt see that requirement ANYWHERE, except for the Warsoul Weapon and Shoulderbow. That includes other embedded weapons like the Armbow. They all say 'You must have the living construct racial trait' which means they CAN in fact be used by Shardminds.

Edit: Oh, and Final Messenger too.

You should check out the slots the magic item is supposed to occupy

Final Messenger has "Prerequisite: (embedded component)"
Armbow has: "Weapon: Crossbow (attached component)"
Mithral and Adamantine Plating: "Armor: Plate (attached component)"
Essense of the Scout: "Prerequisite: (embedded component)"
Armblade: "Weapon: Heavy blade, light blade (attached component)"

Shardminds (currently) don't have embedded or attached component slots, so they CANNOT use warforged components.
Um, you might want to recheck that, EasyT. I just looked through the compendium after searching for 'component', and I didnt see that requirement ANYWHERE, except for the Warsoul Weapon and Shoulderbow. That includes other embedded weapons like the Armbow. They all say 'You must have the living construct racial trait' which means they CAN in fact be used by Shardminds.

Edit: Oh, and Final Messenger too.

You should check out the slots the magic item is supposed to occupy Final Messenger has "Prerequisite: (embedded component)" Armbow has: "Weapon: Crossbow (attached component)" Mithral and Adamantine Plating: "Armor: Plate (attached component)" Essense of the Scout: "Prerequisite: (embedded component)" Armblade: "Weapon: Heavy blade, light blade (attached component)" Shardminds (currently) don't have embedded or attached component slots, so they CANNOT use warforged components.




Hmm... Warforged have no such "slots", either, as far as I know.  Some components (embedded or attached) are restricted to warforged only (about 14 of them, I think), some are not.

Caveat:  I only have access to the warforged rules in the Compendium and Character Builder.  But, as written, I see no restriction limiting the use of most attached or embedded components from being used by any "living construct."
Um, you might want to recheck that, EasyT. I just looked through the compendium after searching for 'component', and I didnt see that requirement ANYWHERE, except for the Warsoul Weapon and Shoulderbow. That includes other embedded weapons like the Armbow. They all say 'You must have the living construct racial trait' which means they CAN in fact be used by Shardminds.

Edit: Oh, and Final Messenger too.

You should check out the slots the magic item is supposed to occupy Final Messenger has "Prerequisite: (embedded component)" Armbow has: "Weapon: Crossbow (attached component)" Mithral and Adamantine Plating: "Armor: Plate (attached component)" Essense of the Scout: "Prerequisite: (embedded component)" Armblade: "Weapon: Heavy blade, light blade (attached component)" Shardminds (currently) don't have embedded or attached component slots, so they CANNOT use warforged components.




Hmm... Warforged have no such "slots", either, as far as I know.  Some components (embedded or attached) are restricted to warforged only (about 14 of them, I think), some are not.

Caveat:  I only have access to the warforged rules in the Compendium and Character Builder.  But, as written, I see no restriction limiting the use of most attached or embedded components from being used by any "living construct."

Well they're all originating in Dragon Magazine 364 in Warforged article and Eberron Player's Guide and labelling all those items as Warforged Components. In both sources they state that "Warforged" have access to those items and embedded and attached component slots, not "any living construct".

So until WotC makes a ruling otherwise, I'm gonna have to assume that the embedded and attached component prerequites would be like needing to be able to use an implement as part of your class in order to gain any benefit from that implement.
Um, you might want to recheck that, EasyT. I just looked through the compendium after searching for 'component', and I didnt see that requirement ANYWHERE, except for the Warsoul Weapon and Shoulderbow. That includes other embedded weapons like the Armbow. They all say 'You must have the living construct racial trait' which means they CAN in fact be used by Shardminds.

Edit: Oh, and Final Messenger too.

You should check out the slots the magic item is supposed to occupy Final Messenger has "Prerequisite: (embedded component)" Armbow has: "Weapon: Crossbow (attached component)" Mithral and Adamantine Plating: "Armor: Plate (attached component)" Essense of the Scout: "Prerequisite: (embedded component)" Armblade: "Weapon: Heavy blade, light blade (attached component)" Shardminds (currently) don't have embedded or attached component slots, so they CANNOT use warforged components.




Hmm... Warforged have no such "slots", either, as far as I know.  Some components (embedded or attached) are restricted to warforged only (about 14 of them, I think), some are not.

Caveat:  I only have access to the warforged rules in the Compendium and Character Builder.  But, as written, I see no restriction limiting the use of most attached or embedded components from being used by any "living construct."

Well they're all originating in Dragon Magazine 364 in Warforged article and Eberron Player's Guide and labelling all those items as Warforged Components. In both sources they state that "Warforged" have access to those items and embedded and attached component slots, not "any living construct".

So until WotC makes a ruling otherwise, I'm gonna have to assume that the embedded and attached component prerequites would be like needing to be able to use an implement as part of your class in order to gain any benefit from that implement.



I think that is a very reasonable approach, even if not in precise agreement with the "letter of the law,' as it were.

Without having the text in front of me, this sounds very much like a "flavor text vs. actual rule" issue.  Or maybe RAI vs. RAW.  The actual rules for a large number of the times do not restrict them to Warforged, but the question then is, "was that intentional?"
What does it mean to be a "component weapon"? Maybe there are some rules in the EPG that are not evident in the Compendium?
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
Having found my dusty copy of EPG, Warforged components are split into two broad categories 'embedded' and 'attached'  Each category of item (Armor, Shield, Et Cetera) has different rules of what can be attached and embedded.  For instance, two handed weapons can't be attached or embedded.

From what I can tell, its not so much specifically warforged that get to use them, as it states in the opening paragraph of the warforged components stuff they can use items as a normal race, yet as being a living construct, can also use warforged components.

I see no specific balance issues in allowing shardminds to utilize refluffed warforged components.

Edit> With the context of the EPG the denotations of (attached component) or (embedded component) has meaning to way in which the component is put on the body.  Without giving away the rules, in essence: attached components are easier to notice and basically are like normal items, while the embedded items are hidden somewhat but only a few items can be embedded. 
The description of warforged components is descriptive/flavor text. It has no game rule impact, and in any case was written prior to the addition of shardminds to the game (and possibly prior to shardminds even being a specific concept for the game).

The only rules-stipulation is that you must have the living construct trait (since that's written into the power block of each item). Shardminds do.
Prerequisite: (embedded component)

Seems like more than mere description or flavor and as Aluman mentions does have game impact.

But I agree, items that don't say something like the following should be good-to-go.

Special: Only a warforged character can use this item.
"At a certain point, one simply has to accept that some folks will see what they want to see..." Dragon 387
Yes, the vast majority of them only have:

PREREQUISITE: You must have the living construct racial trait to use this item.

In which case the shardmind can make use of them without any problem.

The only difference between Attached and Embedded is that Embedded are more difficult to detect when you examine someone.

If a specific item has other limits (like "Only a warforged...") then the shardmind wouldn't be able to use it, although I suspect that lines like that might receive errata down the line to accommodate other living construct PCs, since shardminds weren't around at the time those were written and they also may not be the last living construct race to make an appearance as PCs.
I would say no, Shardminds cannot use warforged components. Why? Simply put, shardminds cannot attach or embed the components.

But, if a 16th level shardmind were an artificer and picked Self-Forged as a paragon path (see Eberron Player's Guide), then yes, they could use warforged components.

More Metal Than Flesh (16th level): You can attach and embed components as if you were a warforged.
SI, if you don't mind can you point to the line, word or anything beyond the misnomer of 'warforged component' that states directly that other living constructs Can Not utilize them?

I mean we don't limit Eladrin Armor to Eladrin characters or Dwarven to Dwarven characters.  If anything that gives Warforged an ability other races don't have (that is have specific type of magic items no other race can use).
SI, if you don't mind can you point to the line, word or anything beyond the misnomer of 'warforged component' that states directly that other living constructs Can Not utilize them?

I mean we don't limit Eladrin Armor to Eladrin characters or Dwarven to Dwarven characters.  If anything that gives Warforged an ability other races don't have (that is have specific type of magic items no other race can use).



EPG 113

Warforged components are not worn or carried; instead, they are either attached to or embedded in a warforged.
SI, if you don't mind can you point to the line, word or anything beyond the misnomer of 'warforged component' that states directly that other living constructs Can Not utilize them?

I mean we don't limit Eladrin Armor to Eladrin characters or Dwarven to Dwarven characters.  If anything that gives Warforged an ability other races don't have (that is have specific type of magic items no other race can use).



EPG 113

Warforged components are not worn or carried; instead, they are either attached to or embedded in a warforged.



Unfortunately, that's not a rule that restricts these to warforged.  It only says that warforged attach or embed components - it says nothing either way about other living constructs, The actual rules say "living construct" for some items and "restricted to warforged" for some others.  Until (if) there is a clarification or rules update, that's the actual rule.  It may not agree with some flavor text, but it is the rule.

Unfortunately, that's not a rule that restricts these to warforged.  It only says that warforged attach or embed components - it says nothing either way about other living constructs, The actual rules say "living construct" for some items and "restricted to warforged" for some others.  Until (if) there is a clarification or rules update, that's the actual rule.  It may not agree with some flavor text, but it is the rule.



And... each item says it's either attached or embedded. And, as far as I know (aside from the Self Forged paragon path), only a warforged can attach or embed a warforged component.

The "More Metal than Flesh" even validates this.

Unfortunately, that's not a rule that restricts these to warforged.  It only says that warforged attach or embed components - it says nothing either way about other living constructs, The actual rules say "living construct" for some items and "restricted to warforged" for some others.  Until (if) there is a clarification or rules update, that's the actual rule.  It may not agree with some flavor text, but it is the rule.



And... each item says it's either attached or embedded. And, as far as I know (aside from the Self Forged paragon path), only a warforged can attach or embed a warforged component.

The "More Metal than Flesh" even validates this.



Nope - nothing states that only a warforged can do this. 

More Metal Than Flesh (16th level): You can attach and embed components as if you were a warforged.

That no way states that some other kind of living construct cannot do this - but, because it allows one to do this "as if you were a warforged," it does open up more possibilities than for other living constructs who are restricted from "warforged only" components.

Nowhere is the anything like a statement that say "ONLY" warforged can attach or embed components.  Since the item rules allow any living construct to do so, they can.
Warforged components are not worn or carried; instead, they are either attached to or embedded in a warforged.

To me it reads, "attached or embedded in a warforged" (only).

Not...

...attached or embedded in a warforged or any other living construct. Otherwise, it would say that.

How much more specific do they have to be?  Do they have to include the word "only" or "and nothing else" afterwards?

Simply put, "they are either attached to or embedded in a warforged."
Warforged components are not worn or carried; instead, they are either attached to or embedded in a warforged.

To me it reads, "attached or embedded in a warforged" (only).

Not...

...attached or embedded in a warforged or any other living construct. Otherwise, it would say that.

How much more specific do they have to be?  Do they have to include the word "only" or "and nothing else" afterwards?

Simply put, "they are either attached to or embedded in a warforged."



Because they are no limited to a warforged (only), then yes other living contsructs can use them (except for the ones specifically limited to warforged).

That may or may not be what was intended, but is certainly is what is written currently.

The reason it says neither "only" nor "or any other living construct" is patently obvious - at the time, there were no other living constructs available to play.

The rules, as written, are clear.  Most items that are usable by a "living construct" are usable by any living construct -the notable exception being those usable by warforged only, as noted in the item.

That's the rules as written.  Those items are not restricted to warforged (the obvious way to do this) but to living constructs (leaving open the possibility of other living constructs, as indeed we now know exist.

As intended?  Well, who knows fo rsure??  I'd say we can expect to see some form of clarification on this fairly soon.  Either as a FAQ entry or in an April or  May rules update.
Warforged components are not worn or carried; instead, they are either attached to or embedded in a warforged.

To me it reads, "attached or embedded in a warforged" (only).

Not...

...attached or embedded in a warforged or any other living construct. Otherwise, it would say that.

How much more specific do they have to be?  Do they have to include the word "only" or "and nothing else" afterwards?

Simply put, "they are either attached to or embedded in a warforged."



I have two issues with this interpretation.

1. It gives Warforged an entire set of items that no one else can utilize, unfairly boosting the warforged (especially with the arm bow and other items that are generally really good), which goes against the generalized feel for 4E.

2. There is a number of warforged components with the specific statement of 'only warforged' if only warforged can utilize warforged components this addendum is redudnant, and its lack on other such components creates obfuscation where none is needed. 
I still say nay nay.

And, as many have said before, there is no issue with other living constructs being able to use warforged components, as long as they can attach or embed them, which they can't.

As far as I know, only the warforged race can attach and embed items.

Look further down in the EPG 113, where it says implements can be attached or embedded. Also look at "Converting Items to Warforged Components", where it says nonmagical items can be attached or embedded.

Implements and nonmagical items can be attached or embedded. Would you argue that anyone or any race can attach or embed implements or nonmagic items?

I wouldn't.

"Well, all races aren't living constructs."

So, all living constructs have the ability to attach and embed items? And not only items like warforged components, but implements and nonmagical items as well?

All living constructs? Clay scouts, golems, helmed horrors, a colossus?

All living constructs? Clay scouts, golems, helmed horrors, a colossus?



Why not?
I still say nay nay.

And, as many have said before, there is no issue with other living constructs being able to use warforged components, as long as they can attach or embed them, which they can't.

As far as I know, only the warforged race can attach and embed items.

Look further down in the EPG 113, where it says implements can be attached or embedded. Also look at "Converting Items to Warforged Components", where it says nonmagical items can be attached or embedded.

Implements and nonmagical items can be attached or embedded. Would you argue that anyone or any race can attach or embed implements or nonmagic items?

I wouldn't.

"Well, all races aren't living constructs."

So, all living constructs have the ability to attach and embed items? And not only items like warforged components, but implements and nonmagical items as well?

All living constructs? Clay scouts, golems, helmed horrors, a colossus?



Actually I think they need to just put out 'embed' and 'attach' as keywords with specific definitions, but meh.  The whole thing comes down to this to me.

Either A). Warforged receive a unique benefit not included in the racial writeup.

B). All living constructs enjoy a special benefit not held by other living beings.