omnath,locus of mana ,question

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what does"green mana doesn't empty from your mana pool as steps and phases end" mean??
When you activate a mana ability (such as that of Basic Lands or creatures like Llanowar Elves), it adds mana of a particular color (or colorless mana) to your mana pool that you can use to pay for spells or other abilities that cost mana. Normally, if you don't spend it, it's removed from your mana pool at the end of each turn phase (i.e., the Main Phases, the Combat Phase, and the Beginning and Ending phases).

This static ability means that green mana doesn't empty from your mana pool from one phase to the next, so you can continually stockpile unused green mana as long as Omnath is on the battlefield under your control.
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Normally, if you don't spend it, it's removed from your mana pool at the end of each turn phase (i.e., the Main Phases, the Combat Phase, and the Beginning and Ending phases).



As of Magic 2010, mana pools empty at the end of each step or phase.  (Before that, you would have been right).
When you activate a mana ability (such as that of Basic Lands or creatures like Llanowar Elves), it adds mana of a particular color (or colorless mana) to your mana pool that you can use to pay for spells or other abilities that cost mana. Normally, if you don't spend it, it's removed from your mana pool at the end of each turn phase (i.e., the Main Phases, the Combat Phase, and the Beginning and Ending phases).

This static ability means that green mana doesn't empty from your mana pool from one phase to the next, so you can continually stockpile unused green mana as long as Omnath is on the battlefield under your control.



so, mana u dont use just adds up and u can use it when ever???
what does"green mana doesn't empty from your mana pool as steps and phases end" mean??


It means exactly what it says; the mana you generate with the mana abilities of your lands and other cards does not leave your mana pool (the place where mana goes until it is spent, or the step/phase/turn ends normally) automatically as phases/steps/turns end; it can just hang around across whole turns, as long as you don't spend it on anything.
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Just checking... you do understand that mana is not the same thing as land, right? Mana is the magical energy used to pay for spells, while land is a type of permanent. Mana most often comes from land but that's as far as any relationship between the two goes.

When you tap a Forest, Llanowar Elves, or something similar for mana, it normally goes in an invisible reservoir called your mana pool until you either use it, or the current phase or step ends, whichever comes first. With Omnath, however, it doesn't just disappear if you don't use it - it remains in your mana pool, and you can (for example) tap the same lands for mana the next turn, using all of this mana to cast something twice as expensive as you could have paid for without Omnath.
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
Just checking... you do understand that mana is not the same thing as land, right? Mana is the magical energy used to pay for spells, while land is a type of permanent. Mana most often comes from land but that's as far as any relationship between the two goes.

When you tap a Forest, Llanowar Elves, or something similar for mana, it normally goes in an invisible reservoir called your mana pool until you either use it, or the current phase or step ends, whichever comes first. With Omnath, however, it doesn't just disappear if you don't use it - it remains in your mana pool, and you can (for example) tap the same lands for mana the next turn, using all of this mana to cast something twice as expensive as you could have paid for without Omnath.

u tap mana, and keep adding in the pool till u use it with no mana burn
Not quite. You tap lands for mana. Also, mana burn doesn't exist as of M10. Omnath just keeps the mana from emptying from your mana pool at the end of steps and phases, so you can use it as long as you haven't already. e.g. I could tap a llanowar turn 3 after getting out an omnath, then use the green mana the next turn or even 20 turns later, assuming the game drags on that long.

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My decks as of May 2014:
Hokori, Dust Drinker Prison EDH

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Five-Color Slivers 60-Card Casual

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Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Discard EDH

Child of Alara Ally Tribal EDH

Gaddock Teeg Aggro Duel Commander

Urabrask the Hidden Pingers EDH

Tetsuo Umezawa Derpy Control EDH

Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge Derpy Control EDH

Oloro, Ageless Ascetic/Sen Triplets Stealing Control EDH

Not quite. You tap lands for mana. Also, mana burn doesn't exist as of M10. Omnath just keeps the mana from emptying from your mana pool at the end of steps and phases, so you can use it as long as you haven't already. e.g. I could tap a llanowar turn 3 after getting out an omnath, then use the green mana the next turn or even 20 turns later, assuming the game drags on that long.



nitpick: Only green mana will be prevented from emptying from your mana pool at the end of phases/steps. All other mana behaves normally.
Level 1 Judge. Feel free to call me out on any errors. I'm only human, and am working to improve.
Not quite. You tap lands for mana. Also, mana burn doesn't exist as of M10. Omnath just keeps the mana from emptying from your mana pool at the end of steps and phases, so you can use it as long as you haven't already. e.g. I could tap a llanowar turn 3 after getting out an omnath, then use the green mana the next turn or even 20 turns later, assuming the game drags on that long.

think i get it, thanks
Not quite. You tap lands for mana. Also, mana burn doesn't exist as of M10. Omnath just keeps the mana from emptying from your mana pool at the end of steps and phases, so you can use it as long as you haven't already. e.g. I could tap a llanowar turn 3 after getting out an omnath, then use the green mana the next turn or even 20 turns later, assuming the game drags on that long.


And assuming Omnath is still on the battlefield. If Omnath leaves the battlefield, your mana will empty at the end of the current step or phase.
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lets say i have omnath on the board with 9 mana floating making him a 10/10. that 9 mana never goes away even if i use it to play a spell. lets say  i play a spell tha tcost me three mana .it basically plays without tapping any mana and it does not exuast any of the mana from omnath because it never emptys. now during my draw phase i pull a wolfbriar elemental that i can kick for one green mana for a 2/2 wolf . i know i can kick him 9 times but during the time he is being cast there is still mana floating . so as an instant ability can i kick him indefinetly until he reaches the table.
lets say i have omnath on the board with 9 mana floating making him a 10/10. that 9 mana never goes away even if i use it to play a spell. lets say  i play a spell tha tcost me three mana .it basically plays without tapping any mana and it does not exuast any of the mana from omnath because it never emptys. now during my draw phase i pull a wolfbriar elemental that i can kick for one green mana for a 2/2 wolf . i know i can kick him 9 times but during the time he is being cast there is still mana floating . so as an instant ability can i kick him indefinetly until he reaches the table.


The bolded statement is untrue.

Green mana doesn't empty from the mana pool at the end of each step, but it is used up when you use it. Paying mana for spells or abilities does exhaust the mana in your mana pool. 
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that 9 mana never goes away even if i use it to play a spell.



Because 'doesn't empty as steps and phases end' means 'mana doesn't go away when you cast spells,' right? (Hint: The Answer is 'wrong.')

The card only does what the card says it does. It doesn't keep mana as you cast spells, only between steps and phases.
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that 9 mana never goes away even if i use it to play a spell.



Because 'doesn't empty as steps and phases end' means 'mana doesn't go away when you cast spells,' right?

Learn to read before you post again, please.


No need to be rude. I misread that card that way the first time I saw it as well.
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that 9 mana never goes away even if i use it to play a spell.



Because 'doesn't empty as steps and phases end' means 'mana doesn't go away when you cast spells,' right?

Learn to read before you post again, please.


No need to be rude. I misread that card that way the first time I saw it as well.



And that would be my problem, why? It's not hard to read the card correctly (unless you're ESL, and neither you nor the person I quoted strike me as ESL people).
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ORC_Chaos
Just wanna make sure I understand it (best way for me is to have someone confirm/deny my understanding)

If I tap 10 forests just for the heck of it, and don't cast any spells... Omnath is 11/11?

Does that green mana stay in my pool for the next turn as well as long as I don't use it?

And if it stays for the next turn, and I want to use (Wolfbriar Elemental) ...I can tap it for 2 colorless + 2 of my current forests, then multi-kick it 18 times? (my other 8 forests as mentioned and then the 10 stored thanks to Omnath?)

Lastly, when that mana is all used up, Omnath reverts back to 1/1?

Sean Stackhouse Level Two Judge (Yay!) Maine

If I tap 10 forests just for the heck of it, and don't cast any spells... Omnath is 11/11?

Yes.
Does that green mana stay in my pool for the next turn as well as long as I don't use it?

Yes.
And if it stays for the next turn, and I want to use (Wolfbriar Elemental) ...I can tap it for 2 colorless + 2 of my current forests, then multi-kick it 18 times? (my other 8 forests as mentioned and then the 10 stored thanks to Omnath?)

Yes.
Lastly, when that mana is all used up, Omnath reverts back to 1/1?

Yes.

Just wanna make sure I understand it (best way for me is to have someone confirm/deny my understanding)

If I tap 10 forests just for the heck of it, and don't cast any spells... Omnath is 11/11?



If you tap 10 forest to generate 10 green mana, and don't spent said mana, yes, Omnath will be 11/11.


Does that green mana stay in my pool for the next turn as well as long as I don't use it?


Yes. It will not empty from the pool when the final step and phase of the turn ends.



And if it stays for the next turn, and I want to use (Wolfbriar Elemental) ...I can tap it for 2 colorless + 2 of my current forests, then multi-kick it 18 times? (my other 8 forests as mentioned and then the 10 stored thanks to Omnath?)


Please don't mix "forests" and "green mana".


You can tap your forests again, generating more green mana, and spent this mana generated plus the mana accumulated from the previous turn, to cast a very multi-kicked Wolfbriar Elemental.


Sorry if I'm not making the calculation, but the principle is right.


Lastly, when that mana is all used up, Omnath reverts back to 1/1?


If there's no more any green mana in your mana pool, Omnath is 1/1.



[<o>]
when does the mana that never empties return after you use it 
when does the mana that never empties return after you use it

It never returns. Once you spend it, it's gone. Of course, you can always make more by tapping a Forest or in some other way
DCI Level 2 Judge WPN Advanced TO RPGA Herald-Level GM
when does the mana that never empties return after you use it 


Where do you see he phrase "never empties" on Omnath?
It says "doesn't empty from your mana pool as steps and phases end" - all one clause. No part of that indicates that it can't leave at some other time than steps and/or phases ending.
ΦΦΦΦΦ
o.k. doesn't empty. it still cannot be empty at anytime. if it did  it would say do's empty as you us it. hint if you have a cup of water that doesn't empty then when is it empty.( hint, it is never empty ) hince the do's not or never ,which ever still, applies. seriuosly , if a card said your life total doesn't empty even if you recieve life damage would we be having this same argument.
o.k. doesn't empty. it still cannot be empty at anytime. if it did  it would say do's empty as you us it. hint if you have a cup of water that doesn't empty then when is it empty.( hint, it is never empty ) hince the do's not or never ,which ever still, applies. seriuosly , if a card said your life total doesn't empty even if you recieve life damage would we be having this same argument.

Your interpretation of the rules governing this card is incorrect. Nothing about Omnath takes away the fact that you have to pay for spells using the mana in your mana pool, and when you do that, that mana is no longer in your pool.

The only thing Omnath does is it changes the rule that would normally empty your pool at the end of each step and phase. Instead, green mana does not empty at those times. The words "spend" and "empty" have different meanings, and the card Omnath does not say that green mana "never" empties, but only that it doesn't empty at the end of each phase and step.
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o.k. doesn't empty. it still cannot be empty at anytime. if it did  it would say do's empty as you us it. hint if you have a cup of water that doesn't empty then when is it empty.( hint, it is never empty ) hince the do's not or never ,which ever still, applies. seriuosly , if a card said your life total doesn't empty even if you recieve life damage would we be having this same argument.


Think of it this way: normally, you dump out your cup on the ground every once in a while.  Tapping a Forest is like pouring green Kool-Aid in your cup.  If you drink a little Kool-Aid, it gives you energy to do a backflip or sommersault.  Omnath, Locus of Mana tells you not to dump out the glass on the ground.  The cup can still go empty if you drink it all to do gymnastics.
o.k. doesn't empty. it still cannot be empty at anytime. if it did  it would say do's empty as you us it. hint if you have a cup of water that doesn't empty then when is it empty.( hint, it is never empty ) hince the do's not or never ,which ever still, applies. seriuosly , if a card said your life total doesn't empty even if you recieve life damage would we be having this same argument.


Here is the rule:
116.3a Paying mana is done by removing the indicated mana from a player's mana pool. (Players can always pay 0 mana.) If excess mana remains in that player's mana pool after making that payment, the player announces what mana is still there.


Omnath makes no attempt to interfere with this rule.  If your Omnath says something like "Green mana doesn't empty from your mana pool as you spend it." or "Green mana doesn't empty from your mana pool under any circumstances.", then you have what is known as a Valuable Misprint.
No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.
o.k. doesn't empty. it still cannot be empty at anytime. if it did  it would say do's empty as you us it. hint if you have a cup of water that doesn't empty then when is it empty.( hint, it is never empty ) hince the do's not or never ,which ever still, applies. seriuosly , if a card said your life total doesn't empty even if you recieve life damage would we be having this same argument.



It does not need to say that it empties as you use it because the rules say that, and this card is not negating those rules in any way; it only interferes with the 'empty at end of steps/phases' rule(s).
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o.k. doesn't empty. it still cannot be empty at anytime. if it did  it would say do's empty as you us it. hint if you have a cup of water that doesn't empty then when is it empty.( hint, it is never empty ) hince the do's not or never ,which ever still, applies. seriuosly , if a card said your life total doesn't empty even if you recieve life damage would we be having this same argument.


I'm not even sure how everyone else seems to be able to read this.
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o.k. doesn't empty. it still cannot be empty at anytime. if it did  it would say do's empty as you us it. hint if you have a cup of water that doesn't empty then when is it empty.( hint, it is never empty ) hince the do's not or never ,which ever still, applies. seriuosly , if a card said your life total doesn't empty even if you recieve life damage would we be having this same argument.


My best guess - judging partly by your writing style, or lack thereof - is that you don't understand that "Green mana doesn't empty from your mana pool" is not the whole sentence (possibly because of where the line break is in Gatherer, or possibly because your reading comprehension is just that bad).

You don't get to stop reading in mid-sentence; keep going until you see a period. The whole sentence is "Green mana doesn't empty from your mana pool as steps and phases end." This does not say anything about whether it empties from your mana pool at other times, so the normal rules for that apply.
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
It's difficult - to the point where, if English is his first language (which I'm not sure of), I would consider it extremely rude to his audience to write that poorly. But there is a train of thought there if you're willing to put in about ten times as much time as it ought normally to take to figure out what it is.

Reading comprehension issues aside, this is how many children typically write, and it is developmentally appropriate for their age level. As you've pointed out, there's an actual logical argument buried in there, and that shows he's trying to learn. It's our mission here to try to teach him.

I think we'd all benefit from not being quite so critical of how other people write, especially when many of those who have trouble with the rules of Magic are very young, or do not speak English as a first language.
DCI Level 2 Judge WPN Advanced TO RPGA Herald-Level GM
It's difficult - to the point where, if English is his first language (which I'm not sure of), I would consider it extremely rude to his audience to write that poorly. But there is a train of thought there if you're willing to put in about ten times as much time as it ought normally to take to figure out what it is.

Reading comprehension issues aside, this is how many children typically write, and it is developmentally appropriate for their age level. As you've pointed out, there's an actual logical argument buried in there, and that shows he's trying to learn. It's our mission here to try to teach him.

I think we'd all benefit from not being quite so critical of how other people write, especially when many of those who have trouble with the rules of Magic are very young, or do not speak English as a first language.



I might agree with you there (which is why I rethought and redid my first post in this thread to be a bit less rude), but even after it's been pointed out to him what the card actually says, he continues to ignore it. At that point, being politely helpful goes out the window.
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Dear scholars of Magic the Gathering 
              
    To whom it may concern.  Please allow me to try another method to help me and others understand what the creators of this card intended its ability to do.
    Lets say I have 4 green forest, (lands), to tap for mana for playing spells or abilities. During my draw phase  I pull an omnath. I tap one green forest and two colorless to castit. I lay it on the playing field and it is a 1/1. I then tap the other green forest which puts 1 in my mana pool and makes omnath a 2/2. I then declare my end step. Omnath is a 2/2 and I have 1 green mana in my pool  
   My next turn is as follows. Main phase:I will untap all my forest. I then tap all my forest leaving 4 mana in my pool .Omnath is now a 6/6 and I have 5 mana in my pool. I then enter into my draw step. I pull a green forest lay on the playing field and tap it. omnath is now a 7/7 and i have 6 in my mana pool. i  decide not to cast any spells during my main phase. Omnath is a 7/7 and I have 6 in my pool. During my combat phase, I decide not to attack. This starts my second main phase which I decide not to play spells .
   Now here is the tricky part
   I enter my end phase which includes my end step. Omnath is a 7/7 and i have 6 in my mana pool. I declare my end step or as most people say i'm done. Omnath is still a7/7 and i still have 6 in my mana pool. Next turn, do all the same steps making omnath a 12/12 and i have 11 in my pool. During my draw phase i pull wolfbriar elemental.It cost 2 green and two colorless to cast and you can kick it for one green to put a 2/2 green wolf into play for each time it was kicked . So, 4 to cast and I kick it 7 times. i declare my( end step). omnath is a 12/12 and i have 11 in my mana pool.   As the card states( green mana doesn't empty from your mana pool as steps and phases end ). The card also doesn't state that you can use that mana to cast spells and if you do you should remove mana from your mana pool . so what your saying is that these rules are common to the game and should be applied. Is that correct
HERE IS THE RULE THAT I QUOTED ON PAGE THREE OF THIS THREAD:
116.3a Paying mana is done by removing the indicated mana from a player's mana pool. (Players can always pay 0 mana.) If excess mana remains in that player's mana pool after making that payment, the player announces what mana is still there.


It applies while Omnath is not on the battlefield.
It applies while Omnath is on the battlefield.
It applies even if you cover your ears and say LALALALALALALALA.
If you cast a Wolfbriar Elemental kicked seven times, that will cost you ; paying this would completely empty a mana pool that contained .

Deal with it.
No, I am not a judge. That's why I like to quote sources such as the rules that trump judges.
So, 4 to cast and I kick it 7 times. i declare my( end step). omnath is a 12/12 and i have 11 in my mana pool.

This is the mistake. If you cast a spell and kick it 7 times, that is going to use up mana in your pool. That mana will not be there anymore, and Omnath will get smaller. In this case, the kicked spell costs 11 mana, so your pool will be empty after you cast it, and Omnath will be a 1/1 for the next while.
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snipt



You're right; Omnath doesn't say that the mana is emptied from your pool as you use it to cast spells. When Omnath is not in play, there is no effect saying that mana is emptied from your pool as you use it to cast spells. Do you think that the mana stays there after you use it to cast a spell if Omnath is not in play?
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So, 4 to cast and I kick it 7 times. i declare my( end step). omnath is a 12/12 and i have 11 in my mana pool.   As the card states( green mana doesn't empty from your mana pool as steps and phases end ).

No, really, "as phases or steps end" means "AS PHASES OR STEPS END", not something else. No phase or step is ending at this point, so Omnath's wording is completely silent on what happens now. So the normal rules apply (just like they would in any other case where there are no effects that say anything different) and it is removed from your mana pool.

The card also doesn't state that you can use that mana to cast spells and if you do you should remove mana from your mana pool . so what your saying is that these rules are common to the game and should be applied. Is that correct

Yes. The rules of the game say that mana normally empties from your pool at two different times:
  • When a phase or step ends

  • When you spend it for something


Omnath makes an exception to the first of these two cases. It does not make an exception to the second. Cards do precisely and literally what they say they do, nothing more and nothing less. For it to make an exception to the second rule, it would have to say it does. Saying something vaguely related doesn't count, nor does you wishing it said it does.
Jeff Heikkinen DCI Rules Advisor since Dec 25, 2011
I would like to thank all of you for your patience in helping me understand . i would encourage some of you to be more polite to those of us not as versed in the rulings of your little card game. (Content Removed)
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ORC_Chaos
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