Goblin Races (Specifically for Eberron)

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This thread includes PC racial write-ups for Bugbears, Goblins, and Hobgoblins, including several feat options for each, and a handful of backgrounds one might choose.  Some options are related to using these races in Eberron, but the base stats for the races, as well as many feats, should be universal enough for use.


Comments and feedback are always welcome.


Old Edits / Updates
First up is the Hobgoblin, as it's the race I'm most eager to re-introduce in a fuller sense to my Eberron games.  Bugbear and Goblin will be added soon, along with actual descriptions of the backgrounds referenced, and eventually of the races themselves.

EDIT: Next is the Bugbear.  Bugbear is the race that needs the most "work" to make into a viable player race.  Luckily that have enough flavor to really work with.  My attempt at them obviously drops Oversized.  Hopefully the features I included in its place aren't too powerful.  I tried to keep it nearly on-par with the Half-Orc and Dragonborn, in theory.


EDIT: Finally, the Goblin.  I've left the Goblin stats as-is.  I found that designing their feats was relatively easy - they have such strong themes, that feats essentially write themselves.


EDIT: In addition, some Backgrounds are available.  This batch focuses on the backgrounds referenced in the Eberron-Specific feats, dealing mostly with the clans of Darguun.


EDIT: In a "stealth update", I've added an (entirely fluff) "sidebar" on the Combat Styles (see Martial Power 2) of Eberron goblinoids.


EDIT: A few feats changed and/or added.  Specifically: Pervasive Viciousness replaces Greater Viciousness for Bugbears; Flanking Goblin Tactics, Coward's Defense, and Virtue of Cowardice added for Goblins; Ready Assault cleaned up for Hobgoblins; and Majesty of Battle and Veiled Intimidation added for Hobgoblins.


EDIT: After long thought, I've finally added the Natural Leader feature to the Hobgoblin.  I think it captures a bit of the flavor, with a useful mechanic.  If I think of a universal feat associated with it, I might add one.


I should add that I'm aware of Hebitsuikaza's (quite excellent) goblin races, though I had already completed this one prior to reading them.  I feel like I have enough "distinct" content to warrant a new thread, rather than merely commenting on his.


 


 


EDIT: A long-overdue update!  Just a small change for tonight - changing the writeups to just reflect the current ability bonus design (really just a format change - the alternate ability choices were already listed).  In addition, I've re-worded some of the Bugbear feats, mostly dealing with Vicious Killer (I think I made them a bit more synergistic, and a bit cleaner).  No changes to the Goblin at the moment (I came back to it, feeling like I should change Goblin Tactics to not be an at-will and not be an immediate action... but honestly, I think the power itself actually works great, and the feats build well with it.  My one concern was how it interacts with defenders, and the Coward's Defense feat really covers that concern.)  Hobgoblin's racial power is adjusted to be no action (instead of a reaction).  It still feels less potent than the Mul's power, but I think it's just fine.

I still feel like the Bugbear and Goblin are a little... empty.  But when you actually stack them against existing races, I think they come out as plenty potent (and fluffy - well, as much as they can be fluffy without having any written fluff ).  Hobgoblin needs more feats - at least another Epic feat.  And I would still like to put something down to build off of their Natural Leader feature.




Bugbear


Tough, vicious goblinoids who prey on anyone they perceive as weaker than themselves.

RACIAL TRAITS
    Average Height: 6'10" - 7'2"
    Average Weight: 250 - 300 lb.

    Ability Scores: +2 Strength; +2 Constitution or Dexterity
    Size: Medium
    Speed: 6 squares
    Vision: Low-light

    Languages: Common, Goblin
    Skill Bonuses: +2 Intimidate, +2 Stealth
    Bugbear Toughness: You add your Strength modifier to your total hit points.
    Vicious Killer: The first time you score a critical hit during an encounter, you deal 5 additional damage with the attack.  The additional damage increases to 10 at 11th level, and 15 at 21st level.
    Predatory Eye: You can use predatory eye as an encounter power.

Predatory Eye            Bugbear Racial Power
You maneuver into an advantageous position and strike your foe with ruthless determination.
Encounter
Minor Action        Personal
Effect: You deal +1d6 damage on the next attack you make against a target you have combat advantage against.  You must apply this bonus before the end of your next turn.
    Level 11: You deal +2d6 damage on the attack.
    Level 21: You deal +3d6 damage on the attack.


 
Heroic Bugbear Feats

Bugbear Skullcrusher Prowess
Prerequisite: Bugbear
Benefit: You gain proficiency with all maces.  When you wield a mace, its weapon damage die increases as if it were one size larger.  A club increases to 1d8; a mace increases to 1d10; a greatclub increases to 1d10; a morningstar increases to 1d12.  Additionally, you gain a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with these weapons.  This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and +4 at 21st level.

Pervasive Viciousness
Prerequisite: Bugbear
Benefit: You gain the bonus damage from the Vicious Killer feature the first time you score a critical hit each round.

Predator's Instincts
Prerequisite: Bugbear
Benefit: Whenever you make a Perception check to find tracks, you roll twice and use either result.  You also gain a +5 feat bonus to your passive Perception.

Ruthless Predator
Prerequisite: Bugbear
Benefit: The extra damage dice from your predatory eye racial power increase from d6s to d8s.

Paragon Bugbear Feats

Patient Predator
Prerequisite: 11th level, bugbear
Benefit: If you miss the attack you make with your predatory eye racial power, you regain the use of predatory eye.

Sensitive Nose
Prerequisite: 11th level, bugbear
Benefit: Whenever you make an active Perception check to locate a creature, you roll twice and use either result.

Vicious Takedown
Prerequisite: 11th level, bugbear
Benefit: When a creature takes extra damage from your Vicious Killer feature, you knock the creature prone.



Epic Bugbear Feats

Desperate Predator
Prerequisite: 21st level, bugbear
Benefit: When you first become bloodied in an encounter, you regain the use of the predatory eye racial power if you have used it during the encounter.

Vicious Wound
Prerequisite: 21st level, bugbear
Benefit: When a creature would take extra damage from your Vicious Killer feature, you can choose to reduce the amount of additional damage in order to deal ongoing damage.  If you reduce the additional damage by 5, the creature takes ongoing 10 damage (save ends).  If you reduce the additional damage by 10, the creature takes ongoing 5 damage (save ends), and takes a -5 penalty on saving throws against this effect.

Class-Specific Bugbear Feats

Crushing Ruffian
Prerequisite: Str 13, Con 13, bugbear, rogue, Ruthless Ruffian class feature
Benefit: You can use any rogue power that requires a light blade while wielding any mace.  You reduce Sneak Attack damage by one die when wielding any mace other than a regular club or a regular mace.

Predator's Superiority
Prerequisite: Bugbear, fighter, Combat Superiority class feature
Benefit: Whenever you hit a creature with an opportunity attack granted by Combat Superiority, the target grants Combat Advantage until the end of your next turn.

Eberron-Specific Bugbear Feats

Goblin Weapon Training
Prerequisite: Bugbear, Goblin or Hobgoblin, Darguun background
Benefit: You gain proficiency with all military flails, as well as the triple-headed flail and the spiked chain.  Additionally, you gain a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with these weapons.  This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and +4 at 21st level.

Marguul Flayer
Prerequisite: Bugbear, Marguul background
Benefit: When you wield a sickle, its weapon damage die increases to 1d8, and it becomes a high crit weapon.


Removed / Old Bugbear Feats

Greater Viciousness (Heroic Tier)
Prerequisite: Bugbear
Benefit: The first time you score a critical hit during an encounter, you get a +2 bonus to the additional damage with the attack.  This increases to +4 at 11th level, and +6 at 21st level.



Goblin


Cowardly goblinoids who prefer to have the odds stacked in their favor.

RACIAL TRAITS
    Average Height: 3'4" - 3'8"
    Average Weight: 40 - 55 lb.

    Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity; +2 Wisdom or Charisma
    Size: Small
    Speed: 6 squares
    Vision: Low-light

    Languages: Common, Goblin
    Skill Bonuses: +2 Stealth, +2 Thievery
    Goblin Reflexes: You gain a +1 racial bonus to your Reflex defense.
    Goblin Tactics: You can use goblin tactics as an at-will power.

Goblin Tactics            Goblin Racial Power
You avoid your enemy's blow and cleverly slink past his defenses.
At-Will
Immediate Reaction    Personal
Trigger: You are missed by a melee attack.
Effect: You shift 1 square.

Heroic Goblin Feats

Defensive Goblin Tactics
Prerequisite: Goblin
Benefit: When you use your goblin tactics racial power, you gain a +1 bonus to AC and Reflex defense until the end of your next turn.

Safety in Numbers
Prerequisite: Goblin
Benefit: When you use a Second Wind or Total Defense action, you gain an additional bonus to all defenses equal to the number of allies adjacent to you.

Slinking Stealth
Prerequisite: Goblin
Benefit: When you are hidden, you can remain hidden using cover granted by another creature.

Paragon Goblin Feats

Cunning Goblin Tactics
Prerequisite: 11th level, goblin
Benefit: When you use your goblin tactics racial power, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls against the triggering creature until the end of your next turn.

Goblin Cowardice
Prerequisite: 11th level, goblin
Benefit: When you use your goblin tactics racial power and shift into a square that is not adjacent to any other creature, you are no longer marked by any enemy.

Epic Goblin Feats

Evasive Goblin Tactics
Prerequisite: 21st level, goblin
Benefit: You can use your goblin tactics racial power when you are missed by any attack.

Flanking Goblin Tactics
Prerequisite:
21st level, goblin
Benefit: When you use your goblin tactics racial power, you can shift 2 squares, but if you do you must end your shift in a square adjacent to the triggering creature.  You can move through an enemy's space during the shift, but you can't end there.

Class-Specific Goblin Feats


Coward's Defense
Prerequisite:
Goblin, defender role
Benefit: When an enemy marked by you makes an attack against an ally adjacent to you, if the attack misses that ally can use your goblin tactics racial power as an immediate reaction.

Virtue of Cowardice
Prerequisite:
Goblin, Bard, Virtue of Cunning class feature
Benefit: When you slide an ally with your Virtue of Cunning, you can slide that ally an additional square.  If you do, you must slide the ally into a square that is not adjacent to any other creature.

Eberron-Specific Goblin Feats

City Goblin Wisdom
Prerequisite: Goblin, City Goblin background
Benefit: You are trained in Streetwise.  Whenever you make a Streetwise check, you roll twice and use either result.

Goblin Weapon Training
Prerequisite: Bugbear, Goblin or Hobgoblin, Darguun background
Benefit: You gain proficiency with all military flails, as well as the triple-headed flail and the spiked chain.  Additionally, you gain a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with these weapons.  This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and +4 at 21st level.

Silent Step
Prerequisite: Goblin, Khesh'dar (Silent Folk) background
Benefit: You are trained in Stealth.  Whenever you make a Stealth check and have concealment or total concealment from all enemies, you roll twice and use either result.


Hobgoblin


Disciplined goblinoids who live for war and bloodshed.

RACIAL TRAITS
    Average Height: 6'1" - 6'5"
    Average Weight: 190 - 240 lb.

    Ability Scores: +2 Constitution; +2 Dexterity or Charisma
    Size: Medium
    Speed: 6 squares
    Vision: Low-light

    Languages: Common, Goblin
    Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 History
    Battle Ready: You gain a +2 bonus to initiative checks.
    Natural Leader: You and allies within 10 squares of you grant a +3 bonus instead of +2 when they succesfully use the Aid Another, Aid Attack, or Aid Defense action.
    Hobgoblin Resilience: You can use hobgoblin resilience as an encounter power.

Hobgoblin Resilience        Hobgoblin Racial Power
You shake off an effect that would cripple a lesser warrior.
Encounter
No Action    Personal
Trigger: You suffer an effect that a save can end.
Effect: You make a saving throw against the effect.


Heroic Hobgoblin Feats

Hobgoblin Tactics
Prerequisite: Hobgoblin
Benefit: Whenever you are adjacent to an ally, you gain a +1 bonus to AC and Reflex defense.

Improved Hobgoblin Resilience
Prerequisite: Hobgoblin
Benefit: When you use your hobgoblin resilience racial power, you gain a +2 feat bonus to the saving throw.

Restored Resilience
Prerequisite: Hobgoblin
Benefit: When you use your second wind and have already used your hobgoblin resilience racial power in the encounter, you regain the use of hobgoblin resilience.

Paragon Hobgoblin Feats

Ready Assault
Prerequisite: 11th level, hobgoblin
Benefit: On your first turn during an encounter, you gain a +5 bonus to damage rolls.

Unwavering Resilience
Prerequisite: 11th level, hobgoblin
Benefit: The first time you are reduced to 0 hit points during an encounter, you can use your hobgoblin resilience racial power to make a death saving throw, with a +5 feat bonus on the roll.

Epic Hobgoblin Feats

Perpetual Resilience
Prerequisite: 21st level, hobgoblin
Benefit: Your hobgoblin resilience racial power becomes an at-will power.

Class-Specific Hobgoblin Feats
    
Majesty of Battle
Prerequisite:
Hobgoblin, bard, majestic word power
Benefit: When you hit an enemy with an attack, the target of your majestic word power gains a +1 power bonus to attack rolls until the end of its next turn.

Veiled Intimidation

Prerequisite: Hobgoblin, bard, words of friendship power
Benefit: When you use words of friendship outside of combat, you can apply the power bonus to an Intimidate check instead of a Bluff check.

Eberron-Specific Hobgoblin Feats

Bladebearer's Legacy
Prerequisite: Hobgoblin, Kech Shaarat (Bladebearers) background
Benefit: You gain proficiency with all heavy blades.  Additionally, you gain a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with these weapons.  This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and +4 at 21st level.

Goblin Weapon Training
Prerequisite: Bugbear, Goblin or Hobgoblin, Darguun background
Benefit: You gain proficiency with all military flails, as well as the triple-headed flail and the spiked chain.  Additionally, you gain a +2 feat bonus to damage rolls with these weapons.  This bonus increases to +3 at 11th level and +4 at 21st level.

Wordbearer's Legacy
Prerequisite: Hobgoblin, Kech Volaar (Wordbearers) background
Benefit: When you use a healing power to restore hit points to an ally, you gain a +2 feat bonus to the number of hit points restored.  This bonus increases to +4 at 11th level and +6 at 21st level.


Goblin Backgrounds



Race-Specific Backgrounds

TBD

Eberron-Secific Backgrounds

City Goblin: You were born and raised in one of the various cities that are scattered across Khorvaire.  Your ancestors may have been brought to the region as slaves, or maybe they were there before the kingdom of Galifar stretches its bloody claws out and took the land.  Either way, you hardly care.  You've been lost in the cities of other races your whole life, and because of this you've learned to get along with other people as best you can.  You know your home city like the back of your hand, and you know enough about cities in general to know where to ask questions and look for information.  You've never been to the goblin nation of Darguun, and you're not sure you'd care to.
    Associated Skills: Diplomacy, Streetwise.

Darguun: You hail from the lands now called Darguun - the great goblin nation reborn!  You know little of the history of your people.  Perhaps you worked as a mecenary during the war, selling your services to the highest bidders.  But when the great Lhesh Haruuc Shaarat'kor seized the territory that would become Darguun, you were among the goblins that answered his call.  You have lived and worked in Darguun since the war, side-by-side with goblins of all clans and races.  You are proud of your fledgling nation, and embody the strength and perserverance that will make the goblin people strong.
    Associated Skills: Athletics, Endurance.

Droaam: You hail from the nation of monsters - Droaam.  The lands that once belonged to Breland are a brutal place, and they shape you to be the same.  You've lived in the lands your whole life, and are at home among the monsters.  You are familiar with more creatures than most goblins will ever lay eyes on in their entire lives.  You may pay allegiance to one of the more powerful groups in Droaam, or you may simply live your life, free among the creatures to be yourself like you can in no other place in Khorvaire.
    Associated Skills: Dungeoneering, Nature.

Noteworthy Clans and Tribes

Ghaal'dar: You are a member of one of the tribess united in the alliance of the Ghaal'dar - the dominant power in the nation of Darguun.  You hail from a strong warrior culture dating back to the fall of the Dhakaani Empire all those many centuries ago.  Since the formation of Darguun, you have enjoyed some of the best benefits of being a true, recognized nation - while still being a member of a culture that favors manipulation and threats as diplomacy and negotiation.  You interact with other races on a regular basis, tolerating non-goblins as they tolerate you.  You are among the most "civilized" of Darguun goblins - though "civilized" is certainly a relative term.
    Associated Skills: Intimidate, Streetwise

Marguul [Bugbear]: You hail from one of the brutal Marguul tribes, where Bugbears rule through brutal violence and vicious shows of force.  Perhaps you were born to the tribe, or pehaps you were taken as a slave and earned your place.  Either way, you have enough respect to do as you will, even when you choose to strike out into the world beyond the Seawall Mountains.  Through Darguun, and indeed all of Khorvaire, your tribe's reputation preceeds you - you are a thing to be feared and avoided, for you are a bringer of death.
    Associated Skills: Endurance, Intimidate

Dhakaani Clans

Kech Shaarat (Bladebearers): In ancient days, when the great Empire fell, yours was one of the clans that foresaw the destruction, and fled to the far-flung places in what would become Darguun, to preserve Dhakaani culture.  Yours is one of the most powerful clans to emerge back into the world - the Bladebearers.  Named for both the mighty artifact that you protect and the sword-shaped marks branded on your forearms, your clan is one of the most aggressive of Dhakaani clans.  Your leaders push you onward, toward conquering the other clans, and rebuilding the glory of the Empire of Dhakaan.  Since childhood you have been trained to be a skill soldier and tactician.  Today you put those skills to good use, reaching out into the world to further your clan's goals, and to ultimately restore the glory of your ancestors.  Alternatively, you may be disillusioned with the aggression and violence of your clan, finding yourself reaching out to better understand the outside world.
    Assocaited Skills: History, Intimidate

Kech Volaar (Wordbearers): Yours was one of the few goblin clans to foresee the collapse of the Empire of Dhakaan.  Your ancestors went into hiding for centuries, always preserving the culture, the knowledge, and the lore of old Dhakaan.  Yours is the most enlightened of the Dhakaani clans - the Wordbearers.  Your clan mates have instilled a strong sense of pride and honor into you, and you feel and understand your connections to old Dhakaan, and the other Dhakaani tribes.  Your people would prefer to use inspiration and diplomacy to unite the scattered tribes - a sentiment you may yourself share.  You wear tattoos of glyphs and symbols that reflect your own acheivments - whatever they may be.
    Associated Skills: Dungeoneering, History

Khesh'dar (Silent Folk): When the Empire of Dhakaan was about to fall, the Silent Folk knew.  They did what they had always done - they hid, and they waited for their opportunity.  With the rise of Darguun, the Silent Folk have returned to the world, bringing you with them.  Your clan is one of secrecy and skill.  The shadows are your friends, and darkness is your ally.  You may have been trained as a scout of the taarka'khesh (silent wolves), or as an assassin of the shaarat'khesh (silent knives).  In the greater scheme of things, your people remain neutral, selling their services to the other Dhakaani clans, and rarely, to outside parties.  You may be a contracted agent of the Khesh'dar, or one of the numerous spies placed throughout Khorvaire.  Alternatively, you may have abandoned your clan, striking out on your own to reap the rewards of your particular talents.
    Associated Skills: Athletics, Stealth


Goblin Combat Styles


While goblin warriors use the same variety of combat styles that the other common races do, a few combat styles are more appropriate for the goblin races in Eberron than for other races, and deserve special mention.

Goblin-Based Combat Styles

Kulkor Battlearm (MP2, p118)
Any Axe, Hammer, or Mace that has the Versatile Property
On the battlefields of old Dhakaan, the bugbear's strength was his brutality, and the hobgoblin's strength was his skill.  Seeking to draw strength from both of these attributes, bugbear and hobgoblin soldiers worked together to develop a style of combat that would harness the brutality to tactics.  The Kulkor Battlearm style is the ultimate result of this effort.  Through it, countless bugbear brutes were taught to control their brutal force, directing it in strikes that protect allies and crush foes.  Kulkor Battlearm proved effective, and even after Dhakaan fell, bugbear warriors throughout Khorvaire could be found practicing the style.  Today other races have adapted Kulkor Battlearm to their own favored weapons, while maintaining the same combination of brutality and teamwork that makes the style so effective.
(Revised)

Midnight Blade (MP2, p120)
Any Light Blade
The Midnight Blade style is one of the ancient fighting styles developed and perfected by the Dhakaani goblinoids, and later adopted by other races throughout Khorvaire.  This style, with its emphasis on quick movements and agile strikes, was developed by the Khesh'dar - the clan of goblin scouts and assassins.  The taarka'khesh and shaarat'khesh still both train their goblin scouts and assassins in this particular style of fighting, though it has been adopted by other groups over the long centuries.  Today familiarity with the Midnight Blade style is often seen as the mark of a trained assassin.

Rending Chains (MP2, p128)
Any Flail
Ancient records of the fallen goblin empire of Dhakaan reveal the Rending Chains style's history.  It was developed on the battlefield by hobgoblin soldiers who favored spiked chains and long flails as a means to exploit the weapons' capabilities to bind and manipulate their foes.  The Rending Chains style was not practiced for many centuries - it was thought lost along with its creators among the Dhakaani tribes.  However, when the Dhakaani emerged and revealed themselves to the world again, they brought with them the practice and mastery of the Rending Chains style.



========================================

EDIT (3-7-10): Bugbear added.
EDIT (3-8-10): Goblin added.
EDIT (3-12-10): Backgrounds (Eberron) Added.
EDIT (5-29-10): Combat Styles (Eberron) "Sidebar" Added.
EDIT (6-1-10): Several feats added or modified (see top of post for list).
EDIT (8-29-10): Added an additional feature (Natural Leader) to Hogboblin.

(This document is getting a bit long.  I may reformat it, to at least put each section (1 for each race, 1 for feats, 1 for backgrounds) into Sblocks.

Thoughts?


Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
Added the Bugbear (to the first post).  Haven't really looked at other folks' attempts, so I'm not sure what has and has not been done with the race before (other than obviously dropping Oversized).  Hopefully it's about on-par with the Half-Orc.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
I really like these guys, and consider them stolen for my home game. I can't wait to see goblins.
I have never seen a super nova go off, but if it is anything like a Chevy Nova it sure will light up the sky! IMAGE(http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af70/stranger_93/WorldofTanks.jpg)
I really like these guys, and consider them stolen for my home game. I can't wait to see goblins.



Thank you!  I'm just glad to get some kind of feedback.

As for goblins: wish granted.

Goblin has been added to the first post.  While their basic stats remain unchanged from the Monster Manual version (including goblin tactics as an at-will power), I think the feats are a lot of fun, and really give Goblins are strong niche.
Feedback Disclaimer
Yes, I am expressing my opinions (even complaints - le gasp!) about the current iteration of the play-test that we actually have in front of us. No, I'm not going to wait for you to tell me when it's okay to start expressing my concerns (unless you are WotC). (And no, my comments on this forum are not of the same tone or quality as my actual survey feedback.)
A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
Those little guys look fun. I really like how all of their feats are designed to stay away frm people, rather than to be badasses like their larger cousins. Awesome work.
I have never seen a super nova go off, but if it is anything like a Chevy Nova it sure will light up the sky! IMAGE(http://i994.photobucket.com/albums/af70/stranger_93/WorldofTanks.jpg)

Goblin has been added to the first post.  While their basic stats remain unchanged from the Monster Manual version (including goblin tactics as an at-will power), I think the feats are a lot of fun, and really give Goblins are strong niche.


Yes, very nice. Their niche is well-defined with those. Bookmarking!
Locke: [after mugging a merchant for his clothes] It's a little tight, but the price was right.
Not bad, although you seem to be refering to backgrounds that you haven't included here in some of your feats (such as "City Goblin", not the Eberron regional backgrounds).

I'm not sure I care for the base races themselves, you seem to be including some things I've been persuaded away from in my versions.

The strength is really in the feats here. You have some feats here that may be better than have the same thematic support as ones that I came up with, but might function better than the ones I wrote as well as others that would coexist quite nicely with the ones I came up with.

Really, I don't see why those of us who want to come up with official goblinoids can't work together though. Seems like there are at least 3 of us working on the same thing here.

Anyway, I'm in the middle of creating of racial paragon paths. You going to move on to backgrounds and paragon paths yourself, try to come up with something for the Bhuka or stop here?

_


Somehow I missed your post, and that my thread had a new post.  I didn't think the Homebrew forum had enough traffic to bury a thread like that.

Not bad, although you seem to be refering to backgrounds that you haven't included here in some of your feats (such as "City Goblin", not the Eberron regional backgrounds).


Ah!  I need to go do that, you're right.  I had the ideas for them set out, based on my 3.5 and 4th edition materials (which is how I constructed the feats), but I never actually got around to writing them down.  I'm going to go do that.

I'm not sure I care for the base races themselves, you seem to be including some things I've been persuaded away from in my versions.


Hm.  Like what?  I'm curious what you've been "persuaded" away from in the original monster-race write-ups, or what you've edged away from that I added to them.

The strength is really in the feats here. You have some feats here that may be better than have the same thematic support as ones that I came up with, but might function better than the ones I wrote as well as others that would coexist quite nicely with the ones I came up with.


Thank you.  I love my feats.  They were really the entire goal of writing up the goblin races, which you could probably tell (as the actual race write-ups are largely the same as in the MM).

Really, I don't see why those of us who want to come up with official goblinoids can't work together though. Seems like there are at least 3 of us working on the same thing here.


We should, probably.  But I think many of us have different goals, and different concepts.  Maybe we need to start a "Grand Unified Goblinoids" thread, and see what we can combine, and what is just going to remain seperate (because we're picky, or stubborn ).

Anyway, I'm in the middle of creating of racial paragon paths. You going to move on to backgrounds and paragon paths yourself, try to come up with something for the Bhuka or stop here?


I'm not sure what a Bhuka is?  Is it like the Blue?  (I actually wrote the Blue up previously, when I did my first draft of psionic classes, but I'm not too fond of it in retrospect.)

I'm going to go put the backgrounds together tonight / tomorrow.  I wasn't planning Paragon Paths, but if I do them they will probably be Eberron-specific, and thematically tied to the backgrounds - so I don' think there will be very much overlap.

My "next step" (when I stop getting distracted by other random things) is to create more Race-Class feats, to fill in some niches, and give the races support more on the level of other "official" races.
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Well, I think you have the link to the Goblin compendium in the first post here and I've changed my first threat in that post up to link to the new versions. You can read the replies to see the arguements that made me shift over and over until I reached my current versions.

The Bhuka is a goblinoid released in the Sandstorm expansion. They are good goblins who live in the desert, you can do a google search on them or check out the Sandstorm book. They are sort of like "Blues" in that they were released in an expansion book, but unlike Blues they aren't simply Goblins born with a mutation but actually a seperate goblinoid race that fills a nice niche that the other three don't fill.

Well, I think you have the link to the Goblin compendium in the first post here and I've changed my first threat in that post up to link to the new versions. You can read the replies to see the arguements that made me shift over and over until I reached my current versions.


Will do.

The Bhuka is a goblinoid released in the Sandstorm expansion. They are good goblins who live in the desert, you can do a google search on them or check out the Sandstorm book. They are sort of like "Blues" in that they were released in an expansion book, but unlike Blues they aren't simply Goblins born with a mutation but actually a seperate goblinoid race that fills a nice niche that the other three don't fill.


Hm.  I need to go see if I still have our copy of that (I know someone did, and I ended up with a lot of my old group's books, so I might have it...).
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I have to say I'm very much into this thread. I was a big fan of the Dhakaani in Eberron. Infact I've based atleast 2 character's I've played on Hobgoblin's who are from the last remaining clans of the Dhakaani. Furthermore I do think you should do a little more reading up on the goblinoids of Eberron. Also I'd change the prereq for Goblin Weapon training to include Dhakaani background if you plan on use it.

Also here are some info on Dhakaani caste just incase you can't find any info. Dhakaani favored mobility, so combat feats should improve their mobility and defenses more often then raw damage. I see Dhakaani as being tactical strike kinda guys, better to take a few jabs in the eye and get that one knock out punch then just fire away at will.
Bugbears served as shock troops, and where considered berserkers/dervishes. I'd like to see feats that show that and push them in that direction for striker classes like two-weapon ranger, barbarian, avenger, etc.
Hobgoblins where the leading caste, however one thing does not tie well with the Dhakaani in 4E. That is that Dhakaani leaders where female dirge singers (bards). I'd like to see some feats or special Bard Build that makes the Hobgoblin an awesome Bard.
That's really all I can think of for now good luck and hope these help get the wheels turnin.



PS: oddly enough I just wanted to say, how do you pronounce Dhakaani??? I've heard many say dah-khan-EYE, but I always want to say thah-kah-an-E
I have to say I'm very much into this thread. I was a big fan of the Dhakaani in Eberron. Infact I've based atleast 2 character's I've played on Hobgoblin's who are from the last remaining clans of the Dhakaani. Furthermore I do think you should do a little more reading up on the goblinoids of Eberron.


Awesome.  Darguun was one of the regions that became more and more of a favorite as we played Eberron in 3.5.  I had a player play a Khesh'dar goblin Ninja in a 3.5 campaign for a while.  Good times.

Also I'd change the prereq for Goblin Weapon training to include Dhakaani background if you plan on use it.


I'm running with it as-is (Requiring only the region of Darguun, not any specific clan background), because of the Darguun Mauler feat from 3.5 (Races of Eberron; it was open to any goblins in Darguun).

Hobgoblins where the leading caste, however one thing does not tie well with the Dhakaani in 4E. That is that Dhakaani leaders where female dirge singers (bards). I'd like to see some feats or special Bard Build that makes the Hobgoblin an awesome Bard.


The 4th editon Hobgoblin actually makes an excellent Bard, since they have both the Charisma and Constitution bonuses.  I plan on putting more feats toward it in the future (when I start putting together race/class feats in earnest).  As for the other cultural fighting styles, I feel that they're already well covered by the Martial Power 2 Combat Style feats - they just need to be reflavored into more "Eberron Specific" descriptions and names.

That's really all I can think of for now good luck and hope these help get the wheels turnin.



Thanks!  Hope you keep on enjoying it.

PS: oddly enough I just wanted to say, how do you pronounce Dhakaani??? I've heard many say dah-khan-EYE, but I always want to say thah-kah-an-E



I'm bad with typing out phoenetics, but we've always gone with "dah-KHAN-ee", with the empire being "dah-KHAN".

==============================================


Eberron-specific backgrounds have been added to the first post.  It's late, and I really should be sleeping, so I can't really attest to their quality at the moment.  They cover some niches, but more importantly, they fill in the backgrounds that serve as requirements for many of the Eberron-specific feats.

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A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)

I like it a lot frito!  I'm a big fan of Eberron and am glad to see what looks to be a seriously balanced bugbear as well as other support for some goblinoids.


EDIT: missed the Goblin weapon training feat.  this covered the rest of my post.

lol Great job!

I have some feedback for you if you'd like to hear it:

Balance notes on feats.

Predator's Superiority should read only "The target grants CA to you until the end of your next turn."  Otherwise seems too powerful.

Defensive Goblin tactics seems a little strong, especially since the trigger power is an at-will.  Unfortunately I cannot think of a suggested fix.

Hobgoblin Tactics, I assume, was meant to represent the Phalanx ability of most Hobgoblins.  Should not the feat require either the hobgoblin and/or the adjacent ally to be wearing a shield?

I Like Ready Assault, but the wording on it seems a little off.  I suggest "You gain a +5 bonus to damage rolls during the first round of combat" Seems simpler.

And Perpetual Resiliance...seems a little strong.  Something about such a character essentially having a 65% chance (if they also have the paragon feat giving them a +2 to saving throws made with HR) to throw off EVERY save ends ability before it ever affects them.  Add to that a Hobgoblin Warden with this feat would have that 65% chance and then another 55% chance before they ever felt the effects.
Don't know what's up with your post, but yes there are Kobolds in Eberron. The Iredar and the Irvhir.
That was weird. I wanted to point out that one of the feats is weak (the one that changes the bugbear's racial ability from 1d6 to 1d8). +1 damage once per fight seems too weak for a feat.
there are curently a ton of races that have a feat that upp there racial power by 1 die (D6 to D8) so  how is it weak compared to them?
An' ye harm none, do what ye will
Most of those die rolls are more valuable. The Dragonborn breath upgrade hits multiple targets with d8 instead of d6, the Deva d6 is a bonus to anything once per fight, and is far more versatile than the bugbear's ability (a damage bonus that is lost if you miss on your next attack). Even so I find the Deva and Dragonborn feat rather weak. I'm not certain if there are any other feats that turn a d6 into a d8 for a racial encounter power, but I would argue that they are either different from this feat or that they are also just plain weak.

As an afterthough, you might want to change the bugbear power, to something along the lines of 'the next time you hit before the end of your next turn' rather than 'bonus damage to your next attack'. Either that, or you could change it to a free action with hitting as a trigger. I find it unfortunate that this bonus damage will be wasted about 30% of the time due to a simple miss. 
I've been building an ancient Egypt-like setting in which hobgoblins fill the role of the Persian empire, so your more civilized Eberron hobgoblins are closer to what I'm looking for. I'd been worried that their racial features are a tad underwhelming, though, and I see you don't add any. Do you think the hobgoblin is desirable enough at baseline? The other goblin thread adds a racial feature, but it's not really in keeping with how hobgoblins behave in my setting.
Hey, this thread got dug up again?  Awesome.  Laughing

Thanks for the feedback - I'll post again with better (ie - any) responses to the last flurry of posts later, after I get a bit of work done around the house.
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I have some feedback for you if you'd like to hear it:


Very much so!

Predator's Superiority should read only "The target grants CA to you until the end of your next turn."  Otherwise seems too powerful.


Ah, that was the intent originally.  However, compared to, say, the Warforged racial Fighter feat (Warforged Superiority, which knocks the target prone in addition to the attack), I think it's potent, but fine.  CA is a lesser included effect of Prone, after all, so it's at least a step down there.  The Bugbear might be able to take more advantage of the CA than a Warforged can (via his racial power), so... I dunno.  With that all said, do you still think it's too powerful?

Defensive Goblin tactics seems a little strong, especially since the trigger power is an at-will.  Unfortunately I cannot think of a suggested fix.


Well, it could be "+1 AC/Reflex against the creature who triggered Goblin Tactics" (perhaps you could suggest a better full wording?), but I think that's a bit... weak, maybe?

Hobgoblin Tactics, I assume, was meant to represent the Phalanx ability of most Hobgoblins.  Should not the feat require either the hobgoblin and/or the adjacent ally to be wearing a shield?


It could, but I don't think it needs to.  Thematically I wanted it to be useful when fighting with two-handed weapons, or two weapons, and mechanically I wanted it to be a small bonus that will likely be active a lot - again, something similar to a Warforged feat (Warforged Tactics, which gives the more valuable +1 attack when an ally is adjacent to your target).

I Like Ready Assault, but the wording on it seems a little off.  I suggest "You gain a +5 bonus to damage rolls during the first round of combat" Seems simpler.


That's a much better wording.  I'll change it to that, if you don't mind. 

And Perpetual Resiliance...seems a little strong.  Something about such a character essentially having a 65% chance (if they also have the paragon feat giving them a +2 to saving throws made with HR) to throw off EVERY save ends ability before it ever affects them.  Add to that a Hobgoblin Warden with this feat would have that 65% chance and then another 55% chance before they ever felt the effects.


It is a really potent ability, and may be out of line.  I suspected as much when I wrote it, honestly.  The only drawback seems to be that it eats your Immediate action, limiting it to one use per round (or no use, if you have any other Immediate option).  It might still work out alright - it is epic tier after all - though it seems more like an epic destiny feature...  For consideration, there is an existing Martial feat that basically gives an (improved) version of the Warden's Font of Life for certain effects (Martial Resolve: You make a save at the start and end of your turn for dazed, slowed, stunned, weakened, and immobilized.). 

If it's still too much as-is, maybe something like the Fey Charge feat.  Maybe instead of making Hobgoblin Resilience into an at-will, it could just gain "If you succeed at the save granted by Hobgob Resilience, you do not expend Hobgob Resilience", or alternatively "If you fail the save granted by Hobgob Resilience, you do not expend Hobgob Resilience."  Though both of those seem more like Paragon feat effects to me, than Epic feat effects.

That was weird. I wanted to point out that one of the feats is weak (the one that changes the bugbear's racial ability from 1d6 to 1d8). +1 damage once per fight seems too weak for a feat.


Y'know, I had written it without actually thinking about it too hard.  I based it off of the Rogue and Ranger class feats, actually - the ones that improve their Striker bonus damage dice from d6 to d8 - but I can see how that's a much better option for an "always on" ability, than a once-per-encounter Racial power.

The Dragonborn's Empowered Breath feat actually boosts their breath weapon damage from d6 to d10 - however, it's a Paragon feat.

Given that Predatory Eye is somewhat more restrained that the breath attack, would an appropriate change be for the feat to bump the PE damage dice from d6 to d10

My only concern there is whether that would make Predatory Eye just outright superior to the Half-Orc's (somewhat similar) racial power.  PE is, again, more restricted, requiring both its own action, and that you hit with a subsequent attack, but it gives scaling extra damage dice...  Eh, realistically, I don't think PE getting bumped up to d10s would be too much.  Thoughts?

I've been building an ancient Egypt-like setting in which hobgoblins fill the role of the Persian empire, so your more civilized Eberron hobgoblins are closer to what I'm looking for. I'd been worried that their racial features are a tad underwhelming, though, and I see you don't add any. Do you think the hobgoblin is desirable enough at baseline? The other goblin thread adds a racial feature, but it's not really in keeping with how hobgoblins behave in my setting.


I don't think they need another racial feature to be a "good choice", but there's certainly room for one.  I didn't add one because I didn't think of one that necessarily fit what I wanted.  Consider too the Drow race - its only racial features are Darkvision (which, admittedly, is great), Fey Origin (little mechanical impact), Trance (little mechanical impact), and Lolthouched (it's twin racial powers).

So, to answer your question: Yeah, I think it's desireable enough at baseline.  I actually had players use the MM write up, without any feats available - with the feats (especially the Eberron-specific ones) I think they're fairly on-par.  Maybe on the low end of racial power, but still useful.

I'm sure we could add something else (minor) to it without a problem... I just don't know what that would beTongue out


Did that hit everyone's posts?  I hope so...
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To clarify, one of the difficulties with hobgoblins as is is that their stats put them in direct competition with half-elves, whose racial power is insane...while they don't have to have that level of power, they should at least make people feel good for giving up dilettante.

Part of that problem is dealt with in my campaign because they can choose to fill the otherwise empty Int/Con slot via a Cha or Int choice. I'd like for the Cha choice to still seem desirable though.

Part of that would of course be dealt with by the feats, and your thread and the other one are quite helpful in that respect.
The greater viscousness feat is also a little weak. This one is +2 damage once every few fights. It reminds me of those rather weak feats that add +2 damage on the surprise round etc.
I like the bugbear sense feats that affect different kinds of perception. 
To clarify, one of the difficulties with hobgoblins as is is that their stats put them in direct competition with half-elves, whose racial power is insane...while they don't have to have that level of power, they should at least make people feel good for giving up dilettante.

Part of that problem is dealt with in my campaign because they can choose to fill the otherwise empty Int/Con slot via a Cha or Int choice. I'd like for the Cha choice to still seem desirable though.

Part of that would of course be dealt with by the feats, and your thread and the other one are quite helpful in that respect.


Gotcha.  Though I'm still not sure of what would fit, and work well.  I'm just going to toss out ideas at this point, and see if folks like them.

Strategic Coordination: You gain a +2 bonus on skill or ability checks to aid another.  When you successfully Aid Another, Aid Attack, or Aid Defense, you grant the target a +3 bonus instead of +2.

Hobgoblin Leadership: You grant allies within 10 squares of you a +1 racial bonus to Intimidate checks.

Strategic Leadership: Allies within 10 squares of you grant a +3 bonus instead of +2 when they succesfully use the Aid Another, Aid Attack, or Aid Defense action.

Menacing Countenance: When you roll an Intimidate check [outside of combat?], roll twice and use either result.

Some of these may work as potential feats...

The greater viscousness feat is also a little weak. This one is +2 damage once every few fights. It reminds me of those rather weak feats that add +2 damage on the surprise round etc.


Yeah, it is on the weaker side of things.  The feature it augments is rather weak itself, but I tend to think that it's okay.

Hm.  Could just scrap the feat entirely, and replace it with something like...

Pervasive Viciousness
Prerequisite: Bugbear
Benefit: You gain the bonus damage from the Vicious Killer feature each time you score a critical hit.

or

Benefit: You gain the bonus damage from the Vicious Killer feature the first time you score a critical hit each round.

I like the bugbear sense feats that affect different kinds of perception. 



Thanks!  I know they're simple, but I thought they worked well.  And I like differentiating between Active- and Passive-Perception.

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Pervasive viscousness isn't bad. I think it would see much more use in later tiers as critical hits become more common. I wouldn't take it at heroic tier, based on the number of critical hits I get each combat being not many. It's more interesting than the +2.

Did you make a feat that recharges predatory eye on a critical? You might only get one critical a fight, but you should get another opportunity to have combat advantage no problem. 
Pervasive viscousness isn't bad. I think it would see much more use in later tiers as critical hits become more common. I wouldn't take it at heroic tier, based on the number of critical hits I get each combat being not many. It's more interesting than the +2.


My concern at this point is that it's a vastly superior feat option than then PH1's Devastating Critical [Paragon].  +10 damage on every crit (in paragon), vs. +1d10 damage on every crit.  In Heroic tier it's adding about as much as Devestating Critical, and it only gets better from there.  With Epic-tier crit-fishing builds, I would be concerned that it could be a bit too powerful.

Did you make a feat that recharges predatory eye on a critical? You might only get one critical a fight, but you should get another opportunity to have combat advantage no problem. 


That would probably be another good, and simple, feat to add.
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Going back a bit...

Defensive Goblin tactics seems a little strong, especially since the trigger power is an at-will.  Unfortunately I cannot think of a suggested fix.


Well, it could be "+1 AC/Reflex against the creature who triggered Goblin Tactics" (perhaps you could suggest a better full wording?), but I think that's a bit... weak, maybe?




Back to DGT.

I'm thinking it may be more "in line" with things if changed to "Until the end of your next turn, you gain a +1 bonus to AC or Reflex defense.  Choose the defense when you use goblin tactics."

At that point, it better compares to the Solid Sound feat (+2 Fort, Reflex, or Will defense when you use any Thunder power).

In addition to those considerations, compare Warforged Tactics, and the Hobgoblin's Hobgoblin Tactics feats - both are Heroic feats, and both give circumstantial bonuses (+1 attack for WF, +1 AC/Reflex for Hobbos), but they are likely to be active just as much as the DGT bonuses.  I dunno - I feel like it may still be fine as-is.

Then again, an alternative would be to run with something more akin to Solid Sound.  Maybe "Until the end of your next turn, you gain a +1 bonus to AC, Fortitude, Reflex, or Will defense.  Choose the defense when you use goblin tactics."
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Do you think you might include racial paragon paths? I'm going to talk to my brother about being a Hobgoblin (maybe a bard, if they need a leader) in a campaign he wants  to start. Or maybe a warlock; they might not need a leader. But I'm going to bookmark this, for later.

Or (maybe in a separate thread) feats/paragon paths to represent different druidic sects? I'm thinking they should be open to all Primal classes, following the Gatekeeper Mystagogue.
Do you think you might include racial paragon paths? I'm going to talk to my brother about being a Hobgoblin (maybe a bard, if they need a leader) in a campaign he wants  to start. Or maybe a warlock; they might not need a leader. But I'm going to bookmark this, for later.


One: Thanks for bookmarking. 
Two: I may do racial paragon paths, when I get around to it.  However, if I do, they're going to be more "generic", rather than Eberron-specific paths.  I might consider additional Eberron paths, but nearly every idea I've had is readily covered by an existing option.

As a specific example (because you're interested in playing a Bard), Hobgoblin Dirgesinger (an appropriate Dhakaani paragon path for Bards) is already very well covered conceptually and mechanically by the War Chanter paragon path in PH2 (p.82).

I'm probably more likely to revisit the concepts when character themes come out with Dark Sun.  At that point, I'll probably write up some various Eberron-specific themes.

Or (maybe in a separate thread) feats/paragon paths to represent different druidic sects? I'm thinking they should be open to all Primal classes, following the Gatekeeper Mystagogue.


I have to admit, I'm not terribly interested in the druidic sects, so probably not.  Tongue out
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Awesome job here! I don't think it could have been done better if it was published in Dragon. I'm subscribing to this thread.
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Well hell then, I guess I should update it.  It's only been, like, 8 months.  Tongue out
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As promised: I'm taking a look at this again.  From the first post:

-----
A long-overdue update!  Just a small change for tonight - changing the writeups to just reflect the current ability bonus design (really just a format change - the alternate ability choices were already listed).  In addition, I've re-worded some of the Bugbear feats, mostly dealing with Vicious Killer (I think I made them a bit more synergistic, and a bit cleaner).  No changes to the Goblin at the moment (I came back to it, feeling like I should change Goblin Tactics to not be an at-will and not be an immediate action... but honestly, I think the power itself actually works great, and the feats build well with it.  My one concern was how it interacts with defenders, and the Coward's Defense feat really covers that concern.)  Hobgoblin's racial power is adjusted to be no action (instead of a reaction).  It still feels less potent than the Mul's power, but I think it's just fine.  It needed to get out of the "immediate action" slot though (I feel that Goblin can get away with it, because its racial power is at-will).

I still feel like the Bugbear and Goblin are a little... empty.  But when you actually stack them against existing races, I think they come out as plenty potent (and fluffy - well, as much as they can be fluffy without having any written fluff ).  Hobgoblin needs more feats - at least another Epic feat.  And I would still like to put something down to build off of their Natural Leader feature.
-----

For the Hobgoblin Natural Leader-based feat, what about something like...

[Name Escapes Me At the Moment]
Prerequisites:
Hobgoblin
Benefit: When you use the Aid Attack or Aid Defense action, the bonus against the chosen enemy lasts until the end of your next turn.  When an ally within 10 squares of you uses the Aid Attack or Aid Defense action, the bonus against the chosen enemy lasts until the end of the ally's next turn.

or...

Prerequisites: Hobgoblin
Benefit: When you or an ally within 10 squares of you uses the Aid Attack action, the chosen ally also gains combat advantage for its next attack against the chosen enemy.

or...

Benefit: When you use the Aid Attack or Aid Defense action, instead of an adjacent enemy you can choose any enemy within 10 squares of you.

or... something else.

Mostly just brainstorming at the moment.  And given that it's pretty terribly late at this point, this all might be nonsense.  Thoughts?
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A Psion for Next (Playable Draft) A Barbarian for Next (Brainstorming Still)
I was just talking to a buddy yesterday on how odd it felt that goblinoids didn't get more racial support in Eberron, and low, there it is! Awesome as always Greatfrito!

Suggestions: Divine support for Hobgoblins based on alignment of deity could be some fun fluff/crunch there.  Say Nobler Path: Must worship unaligned or good deity, gain a bonus to diplomacy, or something of that nature.  
I really like these guys, and consider them stolen for my home game. I can't wait to see goblins.



Thank you!  I'm just glad to get some kind of feedback.

As for goblins: wish granted.

Goblin has been added to the first post.  While their basic stats remain unchanged from the Monster Manual version (including goblin tactics as an at-will power), I think the feats are a lot of fun, and really give Goblins are strong niche.



I doing the same thing, Your rendition of Darguun is a major cotributor for the settings I'm using for the campaign I running also.
Thx, V.

P.S.
The Players' Vault Group and I has subscribed to this thread and this thread is the linked for references and information about Darguun's settings' and goblins' information. 

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I think the Oversized trait has some merit as long as it is limited to simple weapons.

Also, Large size PC's don't bugger the system since they don't take up any more gameboard space than Medium creatures.

So if you wanted to make a Troll or Ogre monster race it would work well with those in mind, even the Bugbear could work with that.

How many here want to play as a Kenku, Kobold, or *gasp* Kender btw? I'm tinkering with several races on my free time and ideas would really be welcome.
I think the Oversized trait has some merit as long as it is limited to simple weapons.

It does not. The problem with the Oversized trait isn't just that it's overpowered. It also has the problem that it very badly pigeon-holes characters in to weapon-using classes and roles or else miss out on a great benefit of their race. Limiting Oversized to simple weapons don't really help that.

Also, Large size PC's don't bugger the system since they don't take up any more gameboard space than Medium creatures.

Yes they do. What makes you think that they don't?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
Ok, for the first one point taken, but there isn't any reason that an alternative racial feature comparable to it couldn't be offered. It's not a bad deal for those classes that aren't melee oriented anyway, just not focused on them.
Anyway, can anyone here imagine a Bugbear in a floppy hat and robes and NOT burst in tears from laughter!? It's hard for me for sure!....Bwahahahahaha! Hmmm...maybe I'd make one far a lark. Rofl.

For the second one, Large is one size category up right? So technically a Large creature occupies the same 5'x5' square as a Medium or Small creature does. A Huge creature takes up a 10'x10' square (basically 4 squares) and would definitely NOT be suitable for a PC race.
Ok, for the first one point taken, but there isn't any reason that an alternative racial feature comparable to it couldn't be offered. It's not a bad deal for those classes that aren't melee oriented anyway, just not focused on them.
Anyway, can anyone here imagine a Bugbear in a floppy hat and robes and NOT burst in tears from laughter!? It's hard for me for sure!....Bwahahahahaha! Hmmm...maybe I'd make one far a lark. Rofl.

For the second one, Large is one size category up right? So technically a Large creature occupies the same 5'x5' square as a Medium or Small creature does. A Huge creature takes up a 10'x10' square (basically 4 squares) and would definitely NOT be suitable for a PC race.


I would highly recommend that anyone who wishes to do ANY homebrewing read the rules for the game thoroughly.
In this case, I'd highly recommend reading the rules on creature size and space:


"Each creature falls into one of six size categories. A creature’s size determines its space and affects its reach.






































SizeSpaceReach
Tiny1/2 × 1/2
Small1 × 11
Medium1 × 11
Large2 × 21 or 2
Huge3 × 32 or 3
Gargantuan4 × 4 or larger3 or 4

"
Ok, for the first one point taken, but there isn't any reason that an alternative racial feature comparable to it couldn't be offered.

It depends on what exactly you mean by that. If you mean another feature that's exclusively useful to weapon-using characters and absolutely useless for implement-using classes, then yes, there are many very good reasons that such a feature should not be offered. Racial pigeon-holing is bad. Many steps have been made this edition to avoid it, and while the developers still screw up every once in a while, we should learn from their mistakes instead of repeating them.

Anyway, can anyone here imagine a Bugbear in a floppy hat and robes and NOT burst in tears from laughter!? It's hard for me for sure!....Bwahahahahaha! Hmmm...maybe I'd make one far a lark. Rofl.

It doesn't matter how silly you think that it is. I should be able to play one if I want to and not be cheated a major racial feature.

For the second one, Large is one size category up right? So technically a Large creature occupies the same 5'x5' square as a Medium or Small creature does.

I don't know where in the world you're getting this from. Large creatures take up a 2 square x 2 square space. A huge creature takes up a 3 square x 3 square space.

Why, yes, as a matter of fact I am the Unfailing Arbiter of All That Is Good Design (Even More So Than The Actual Developers) TM Speaking of things that were badly designed, please check out this thread for my Minotaur fix. What have the critics said, you ask? "If any of my players ask to play a Minotaur, I'm definitely offering this as an alternative to the official version." - EmpactWB "If I ever feel like playing a Minotaur I'll know where to look!" - Undrave "WoTC if you are reading this - please take this guy's advice." - Ferol_Debtor_of_Torm "Really full of win. A minotaur that is actually attractive for more than just melee classes." - Cpt_Micha Also, check out my recent GENASI variant! If you've ever wished that your Fire Genasi could actually set stuff on fire, your Water Genasi could actually swim, or your Wind Genasi could at least glide, then look no further. Finally, check out my OPTIONS FOR EVERYONE article, an effort to give unique support to the races that WotC keeps forgetting about. Includes new racial feature options for the Changeling, Deva, Githzerai, Gnoll, Gnome, Goliath, Half-Orc, Kalashtar, Minotaur, Shadar-Kai, Thri-Kreen, Warforged and more!
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