Toughness (Feat)

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Hello out there! I have a question, and it may have been covered, but I cannot seem to uncover it if it has. It is regarding the Toughness feat. Can somebody please explain to me how this works?

I am led to believe that you simply get an additional five (5) hit points at three different times during the game: 1st, 11th, and 21st level. If this is the case, can somebody explain to me why I would take up a feat slot in order to give me a seemingly measly 15 hp bump overall?

Or is it more like this: You get five (5) extra hp at each level of play; i.e. five extra at 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc., through 11th level, where you would then get ten (10) extra hp at level 11th, 12th, etc., through 21st, where you would get fifteen (15) extra hp at level 21st, 22nd, etc., through 30.

I am nearly positive that the second cannot be correct, because it sounds far too good! However, I would definitely take that feat from 1st level if it were. I cannot seem to reason in my head how a 15hp bump would make or break even the clothiest of clothies, or the platiest of plates.

Please help! And, as always, thank you! =)
You get 5hp during heroic tier, 10 hp during paragon tier, and 15 hp during epic tier, total.

The thing you aren't seeing is that this will net you bigger healing surges, so that 5hp at heroic tier is more like 5hp plus one or two HP every time you spend a surge.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
I see. So, at 1st level, I get my class hp value + 5. Then at 11th level, I get my class hp value + 10. Finally at 21st level, hp + 15. So, a 30hp bump over time. This is slightly better.

I did not take into account the surge values. I can see where this would be helpful, indeed. Though, I cannot say I will be taking the feat at this time, still.

Thanks for the uber-fast reply!
I see. So, at 1st level, I get my class hp value + 5. Then at 11th level, I get my class hp value + 10. Finally at 21st level, hp + 15. So, a 30hp bump over time. This is slightly better.

I did not take into account the surge values. I can see where this would be helpful, indeed. Though, I cannot say I will be taking the feat at this time, still.

Thanks for the uber-fast reply!

  Um, no. You get +5 at each tier. Not +10 at paragon and +15 at epic.
Editted my response for clarity; didn't see how it could be misread.
Another day, another three or four entries to my Ignore List.
Right.  It's a total of +15 (by level 21) -- you were right the first time.  Also, since your healing surge value is equal to your HP/4, toughness increases your healing surge value by one point per tier.

It's not a flashy feat, but it does what it advertises. 
Well, I appreciate the confirmation, everybody. I have been hearing this feat thrown around on some podcasts I have been listening to. I just do not understand why a first level character would pick this over dozens of other feats that would help them immediately.

Again, thanks a bunch!
For a first level character 5 hp can be a lot of hp. Look at a wizard with lets say a 12 con. 5 hp jumps the starting hp from 22 to 27. Even for a high hp/con defender like a 18 con warden the bump is 35 to 40 which turns their healing surge value from an 8 to a 10. I know it dosent seem very flashy but as far as usefulness you might be surprised. I cant count the times that a monster had only 1 hp left after an attack or a player hits 0 right on the dime.

As you get on in levels 5 hp dosent sound like a ton but some builds start to loose steam at 8-10th level and then 11th the hp bumps up and becomes useful again for a few levels.

Our last session our party got attacked by a nasty group of monsters that managed to drain the wizard to like -2 in one volly and then she would die on her next turn from ongoing damage. If she had a few more hp, like if she had toughness she would have been able to second wind on her turn and run away like the rest of our party did, as the barbarian fell next round becuse his hp as ac where both very low (very unoptimized character).
Good examples, Disciple. I really do SEE how it can (and I'm sure is) beneficial, I just do not think it is for me. If it were 10hp per tier, I, and I am sure everyone else, would be all over it. But then that whole issue of balance comes into play. lol...What a love/hate relationship balance can be. =)

Thanks!
You're certainly correct in terms of the lack of flashyness of the feat, especially for a lvl 1 character, as there are others that practically scream to be used instead (like the expertise feats).

It definately has the upsides mentioned, particularly for someone trying to be a secondary defender (like a battle cleric) who doesn't normally get defender HP.
Don't forget that having more hit points increases your healing surge value as well.  If you consider that starting hit points are higher, healing surges are higher, the total amount of damage you can sustain using only your hp and healing surges alone are increased quite a bit over the course of a day when you take the Toughness feat.
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It is my opinion that toughness is only valuable from levels 1 to 7. Perhaps very valuable for the first two levels. Also, I feel there are more feat slots than needed. If you are not sure, change the feat as you level.
It is my opinion that toughness is only valuable from levels 1 to 7. Perhaps very valuable for the first two levels. Also, I feel there are more feat slots than needed. If you are not sure, change the feat as you level.

Going to have to disagree with you there. I always wish I had more feat slots. I suppose there may be some builds that are not as feat intensive but I agonize over every one I can't find a way to include.

Considering the newer feats released, ie. racial abilities, I understand. Dragonborn characters, for example, have too much to choose from and, perhaps, too much to hope for.
You might want to consider that the average (across the 24 non-hybrid classes in the Compendium) number of HP gained per level is 5.17. So in heroic tier this feat is the hit-point equivalent of a level.
"The world does not work the way you have been taught it does. We are not real as such; we exist within The Story. Unfortunately for you, you have inherited a condition from your mother known as Primary Protagonist Syndrome, which means The Story is interested in you. It will find you, and if you are not ready for the narrative strands it will throw at you..." - from Footloose
Very few feats apply all the time.  This one applies always when you are in combat.
Very few feats apply all the time.  This one applies always when you are in combat.



Yup, its beauty is that it is a feat you are pretty close to always gaining an advantage from. Every time you use an HS you gain at least one hit point and every time you fall to within 5/10/15 of death you're certainly gaining the direct advantage of the feat. Really for a fighter or warden that gets an extra 2 HS value out of this at heroic you're easily gaining as many as 22 hit points out of a full day of adventuring and say 43 during paragon tier and 55 during epic. Its not earth shattering and most PCs won't get that full advantage every day, but it does help. Not the ideal feat choice for every character by any means, but still a good choice and a pretty nice advantage if you are a TBF style ranger and get it free (and boy do they need it).
That is not dead which may eternal lie