128.9 DPR level 12 [PEACH]

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edit: 115.9 DRP, forgot my curse but had riposte wrong ...


Ok, here is my build, it looks like it could work to me and I think my DPR calcs are valid (someone check those?). I stated the assumptions made, gear is standard lvl 12.


Build

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======


Infernal striker, level 12


Githyanki, Warlock, Lyrandar Wind-Rider


Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Blast Constitution


Eldritch Pact: Infernal Pact


Arcane Implement Proficiency: Arcane Implement Proficiency (Dagger)


Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Thunder


Arcane Admixture Power: Hellish Rebuke


Background: Heretic (+2 to History)


 


FINAL ABILITY SCORES


Str 11, Con 22, Dex 14, Int 20, Wis 9, Cha 11.


 


STARTING ABILITY SCORES


Str 10, Con 17, Dex 13, Int 15, Wis 8, Cha 10.


 


 


AC: 25 Fort: 24 Reflex: 24 Will: 20


HP: 89 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 22


 


TRAINED SKILLS


Religion +16, Arcana +16, Thievery +13, History +20


 


UNTRAINED SKILLS


Acrobatics +8, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +12, Heal +5, Insight +5, Intimidate +6, Nature +5, Perception +5, Stealth +8, Streetwise +6, Athletics +6


 


FEATS


Level 1: Mark of Storm


Level 2: Arcane Implement Proficiency


Level 4: Implement Expertise (Light Blade)


Level 6: White Lotus Riposte


Level 8: Improved Initiative (retrained to Arcane Admixture at Level 12)


Level 10: Dual Implement Spellcaster


Level 11: Called Shot


Level 12: White Lotus Master Riposte


 


POWERS


Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Blast


Warlock encounter 1: Vampiric Embrace


Warlock daily 1: The Lash's Bite


Warlock utility 2: Fast Hands


Warlock encounter 3: Fiery Bolt


Warlock daily 5: Tyrannical Threat


Warlock utility 6: Dark One's Own Luck


Warlock encounter 7: Howl of Doom


Warlock daily 9: Feast of Souls


Warlock utility 10: Ethereal Sidestep


 


ITEMS


Catstep Boots (heroic tier), Subtle Dagger +3, Incisive Dagger Dagger +3, Shadow Warlock Leather Armor +2, Cloak of Translocation +2



 


 


DPR Calculations

Assumptions: the character always has concealment from shadow walk (and can teleport 4 meaning it would need consistent dazes or stuns to stop this). It also benefits from prime shot and will get attacked once by the enemy (easily achieved by sitting next to an enemy).


Hellish Rebuke hit bonus:


6(Con)+6(half level)+3(enhancement bonus)+1(Prime Shot)+1(Storm Bonus Adept)+1(Implement Expertise)+2(Combat Advantage)=+20 vs Reflex


Hellish Rebuke damage (1 hit):


D6+6(Con)+3(Enhancement)+3(Offhand enhancement)+6(Storm Bonus Adept)+5(Called shot)+3(Subtle shot)=29.5 damage


Hellish Rebuke critical damage (1 hit):


3D6+6(max D6)+6(Con)+3(Enhancement)+3(Offhand enhancement)+6(Storm Bonus Adept)+5(Called shot)+3(Subtle shot)=42.5 damage


 


So, Hellish Rebuke vs Reflex 24:


5% crit


0.05*(Hellish Rebuke crit)*2(trigger secondary damage)=4.25


15% miss:



80% hit:


0.8*(Hellish Rebuke)*2(trigger secondary damage)=47.2


51.45 damage per Hellish Rebuke on average.


In each turn I get 1 Hellish Rebuke (Standard)+6 damage (Riposte)+Hellish Rebuke (Riposte Mastery)


So DPR=6+2*51.45+2D6(Curse)=115.9




Note that I am counting the trigger on all of these attacks because I can teleport 4 (including 10ft vertical) and take D10/2 damage (no prone due to catstep boots) to trigger Hellish Rebuke. If the enemy decides not to attack me, DPR drops to around 50 but the enemy is left sitting there doing nothing (the rest of the party has no reason to intervene). Note that any enemy attacking multiple times just gets burned.


 


Please comment and mostly check my DPR calc.

One thing. White Lotus Riposte wouldn't be doing 26 damage. It deals damage equal to your Con mod, which is only 6.
Before you commit to it, make sure your DM will allow you to do the teleport->falling damage->hellish rebuke chain, since it's pretty critical, and there's a lot of table variation there.

Most monsters will just ignore the characters with your ripostes, moving past to attack other party members. You'll get some OAs as a result, of course.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director
Before you commit to it, make sure your DM will allow you to do the teleport->falling damage->hellish rebuke chain, since it's pretty critical, and there's a lot of table variation there.

Most monsters will just ignore the characters with your ripostes, moving past to attack other party members. You'll get some OAs as a result, of course.



If the monsters are able to see into the future or have seen one of their friends incinerated they will avoid me, otherwise, knowing my DM, they will attack at least until they get burned once.

If the DMs monsters are all super intelligent and prescient then ... replace white lotus with weapon focus and empowering shadows I guess, DPR of that is around 70 which is still higher than I've seen for a lvl 12.
Typically in DPR calculations a monster will choose the path of least resistance while avoiding doing nothing.  In this case what's to prevent him from attacking someone else?  Your second riposte attack isn't insured.  It's a nice tactic to stay alive, and catch 22 damage kings oft have bulls-eyes painted on them, so giving reason is always smart but many may complain that this isn't a true DPR value.
DPR King Candidates 3.0
How much damage should I shoot for?
You're fired : 1 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .2 KPR Fair Striker : 2 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .4 KPR Highly Optimized : 3 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .6 KPR Nerfbat please : 4 Kills Per 5 Rounds = .8 KPR It's OVER 9000!!!!!: 5 Kills Per 5 Rounds = 1+ KPR
DPR? KPR? KP4R? Bless you
DPR = Damage Per round ~= Chance to hit * damage on a hit KPR = Kills Per Round. 1 Kill = 8*Level+24 damage = DPR/(8*level+24) KPNR = Kills Per N Rounds. How many standards can you kill in N rounds?
Typically in DPR calculations a monster will choose the path of least resistance while avoiding doing nothing.  In this case what's to prevent him from attacking someone else?  Your second riposte attack isn't insured.  It's a nice tactic to stay alive, and catch 22 damage kings oft have bulls-eyes painted on them, so giving reason is always smart but many may complain that this isn't a true DPR value.

Yeah, I designed a similar character for a friend at one point (though I'll admit yours is more optimized)... but in the three DMs I could play it with, I'd only get a DPR of about 35 with your build, because monsters would just choose not to trigger the riposte and the falling wouldn't trigger the hellish rebuke. So, that's why you should check with your DM ahead of time, to avoid disappointment.
Keith Richmond Living Forgotten Realms Epic Writing Director


If you want the unavoidable route, here is the non-riposte build.

Build

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Infernal striker, level 12
Githyanki, Warlock, Lyrandar Wind-Rider
Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Blast Constitution
Eldritch Pact: Infernal Pact
Arcane Implement Proficiency: Arcane Implement Proficiency (Dagger)
Arcane Admixture Damage Type: Arcane Admixture Thunder
Arcane Admixture Power: Hellish Rebuke
Background: Heretic (+2 to History)

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
Str 11, Con 22, Dex 15, Int 19, Wis 9, Cha 11.

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
Str 10, Con 17, Dex 14, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 10.


AC: 24 Fort: 24 Reflex: 23 Will: 20
HP: 89 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 22

TRAINED SKILLS
Religion +15, Arcana +15, Thievery +13, History +19

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +8, Bluff +6, Diplomacy +6, Dungeoneering +5, Endurance +12, Heal +5, Insight +5, Intimidate +6, Nature +5, Perception +5, Stealth +8, Streetwise +6, Athletics +6

FEATS
Level 1: Mark of Storm
Level 2: Arcane Implement Proficiency
Level 4: Implement Expertise (Light Blade)
Level 6: Weapon Focus (Light Blade)
Level 8: Improved Initiative (retrained to Arcane Admixture at Level 12)
Level 10: Dual Implement Spellcaster
Level 11: Called Shot
Level 12: Nimble Blade

POWERS
Eldritch Blast: Eldritch Blast
Warlock encounter 1: Vampiric Embrace
Warlock daily 1: The Lash's Bite
Warlock utility 2: Fast Hands
Warlock encounter 3: Fiery Bolt
Warlock daily 5: Tyrannical Threat
Warlock utility 6: Dark One's Own Luck
Warlock encounter 7: Howl of Doom
Warlock daily 9: Feast of Souls
Warlock utility 10: Ethereal Sidestep

ITEMS
Catstep Boots (heroic tier), Subtle Dagger +3, Incisive Dagger Dagger +3, Shadow Warlock Leather Armor +2, Cloak of Translocation +2


 


 


DPR Calculations

Assumptions: the character always has concealment from shadow walk (and can teleport 4 meaning it would need consistent dazes or stuns to stop this). It also benefits from prime shot and will get attacked once by the enemy (easily achieved by sitting next to an enemy).


Hellish Rebuke hit bonus:


6(Con)+6(half level)+3(enhancement bonus)+1(Prime Shot)+1(Storm Bonus Adept)+1(Implement Expertise)+2(Combat Advantage)+1(Nimble Blade)=+21 vs Reflex


Hellish Rebuke damage (1 hit):


D6+6(Con)+3(Enhancement)+3(Offhand enhancement)+6(Storm Bonus Adept)+5(Called shot)+3(Subtle shot)+2(Weapon Focus)=31.5 damage


Hellish Rebuke critical damage (1 hit):


3D6+6(max D6)+6(Con)+3(Enhancement)+3(Offhand enhancement)+6(Storm Bonus Adept)+5(Called shot)+3(Subtle shot)+2(Weapon Focus)=44.5 damage


 


So, Hellish Rebuke vs Reflex 24:


5% crit


0.05*((Hellish Rebuke crit)*2(trigger secondary damage)+12(curse))=5.05


10% miss:



85% hit:


0.85*((Hellish Rebuke)*2(trigger secondary damage)+2D6)=59.50


58 damage per Hellish Rebuke on average.


In each turn I get 1 Hellish Rebuke (Standard)


So DPR=64.55



 


Please comment and mostly check my DPR calc.




My DM goes pretty RAW and if I go with a hulk smash fluff for the fall (I pop up, slam down to the floor and they take thunder damage ... ?) he will buy it I think. Also the character opt builds have many questionnable (by the DM) elements.

Also any DM who refuses the falling damage for fluff reasons (because RAW it works) I would call on super intelligent monsters that don't attack the warlock right in front of them ...
I think it's been officially clarified that the secondary damage from Hellish Rebuke gain no bonuses to damage from static mods...

Might want to check up on that. 
I think it's been officially clarified that the secondary damage from Hellish Rebuke gain no bonuses to damage from static mods...

Might want to check up on that. 



Checked both the revised rules and FAQ and can't find anything about Hellish Rebuke ... I'm going to guess it works the same way on both sets of damage (which makes sense, they are identical, worded the same way and both damage rolls from that spell).
Before you commit to it, make sure your DM will allow you to do the teleport->falling damage->hellish rebuke chain, since it's pretty critical, and there's a lot of table variation there.



This is personally not something I would allow, but I have to admit it's an interesting interpretation of the RAW. I've always the interpreted that the intent is when an enemy damages you for the extra effect.
It's just a CustServ ruling so you might get your DM to agree. That said, this board seems to respect CustServ as an official source of rules clarifications, barring any inconsistencies or contradictory RAW in more "official" rules text.

Here's the link: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
It's just a CustServ ruling so you might get your DM to agree. That said, this board seems to respect CustServ as an official source of rules clarifications, barring any inconsistencies or contradictory RAW in more "official" rules text



It's kinda funny you say this because I was just looking at this post from another thread.

Personally I view CS answers as just a guidline or an interpretation, one that can be frequently contradictory. It's more remarkable when you get multiple consistent rulings from them.
I added the following modifications to your non-riposte build:

Shadowrift dagger instead of incisive dagger to trigger hellish rebuke, that way the combo is notdebatable anymore. I also opt for lasting frost instead of called shot because I really dislike the prime shot mechanic, especially in a party with melee strikers. You can add the frost keyword to hellish rebuke by gloves of eldritch admixture =) 
As for the Hellish Rebuke deal, it has the same wording as Striker bonus damage. If they don't get mods, Hellish Rebuke doesn't get mods, barring houserule. It's really that simple.
As for the Hellish Rebuke deal, it has the same wording as Striker bonus damage. If they don't get mods, Hellish Rebuke doesn't get mods, barring houserule. It's really that simple.

community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

I love confusing CS?

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

That opens up an ugly can of worms. Either they fix Hellish Rebuke and the powers along those lines by removing the "extra" to go with the intent, or you enter the possibility of Striker bonus damage adding mods.
That opens up an ugly can of worms. Either they fix Hellish Rebuke and the powers along those lines by removing the "extra" to go with the intent, or you enter the possibility of Striker bonus damage adding mods.

The one difference is that HB's extra damage takes place on a different action, and the Warlock's Curse extra damage feature does not.  (The "did I actually take damage?"/paradox part of the original question)

"Nice assumptions. Completely wrong assumptions, but by jove if being incorrect stopped people from making idiotic statements, we wouldn't have modern internet subculture." Kerrus
Practical gameplay runs by neither RAW or RAI, but rather "A Compromise Between The Gist Of The Rule As I Recall Getting The Impression Of It That One Time I Read It And What Jerry Says He Remembers, Whatever, We'll Look It Up Later If Any Of Us Still Give A Damn." Erachima

Not good enough IMHO, because then anyone using a power that adds extra damage dice under a certain condition, be they fixed dice, [W]'s, whatever, will look at Hellish Rebuke and feel justified to add mods, even when it's obviously not the intent to do so in that power and it is in Hellish Rebuke. Extra damage means rolled separately and added to the total (no mods). If you want Hellish Rebuke to deal mods as well, errata the Hit line. Until then, that CS answer doesn't fly with me.
Hellish Rebuke and the like need to be fixed to say, "If an enemy deals damage to you before the end of your next turn...". That or have the extra damage dealt to the person who dealt the damage to you. Hurting yourself to get the extra damage is extreme cheese.
I am Gazra. This is my DDI account. Gazra is my forum account. Sometimes I get lazy and post with this account.
Not good enough IMHO, because then anyone using a power that adds extra damage dice under a certain condition, be they fixed dice, [W]'s, whatever, will look at Hellish Rebuke and feel justified to add mods, even when it's obviously not the intent to do so in that power and it is in Hellish Rebuke. Extra damage means rolled separately and added to the total (no mods). If you want Hellish Rebuke to deal mods as well, errata the Hit line. Until then, that CS answer doesn't fly with me.



Actually, there is a feat to add extra damage to a Warlock's Curse (+int mod).

I beleive the logic is that since it is a secondary effect of an implement power, it gains all the benefits of the implement keyword, much as how previously, blood pulse got 1d6+mods per square left. Course, you are right in that the wording is funny.

-

As for your build: Nice and all, good for you level, but if you want in-sure multi-attacking with a Warlock, you need to be a human Assault Swordmage|Warlock with Rebuke, Riposte, and Strike, in order to "asure" you get off two attacks a round. If the enemy attacks you, rebuke them, twice. If they attack an ally, smack them with strike. Course, this takes -way- more feats and is probably only really good towards epic, but its the closest thing to a catch-22 a warlock can produce with Hellish-Rebuke.
I am a: Lawful Good Dragonborn Paladin
The damage rolls from Hellish rebuke occur at two completely seperate points in time, you roll damage and then you roll damage again, they are seperate damage rolls.  The meaning of extra obviously varies by context.  The powers that use that phrasing are all clear in the context of the power whether that the damage is rolled as one pool or as seperate pools.  I think claiming that the second Hellish Rebuke roll doesn't get damage mods is missing the forest for the trees and taking the word extra out of the greater context of the power as a whole. 
Stupid double-post...
Oh, I'm pretty sure it's SUPPOSED to add mods, but as worded, precedent is that it doesn't add mods. Ergo, I say errata should trim the "extra" off the power if it's intended to give you double mods, or stick with it and proclaim no mods on the secondary attack.

Feel free to play with whatever interpretation you're most comfortable with for now (it'll get mods in my game until we get a resolution), but the fact of the matter is that the WotC errata writers have to pick a side on the issue. I expect clarification in May.