3/02/2010 LI: "Green around the Gills"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's Limited Information, which goes live Tuesday morning on magicthegathering.com.
sadin said he is taking the woodcrasher baloth as a signaling purpose?!? are you serious? you better hope your drafting with color blind people cause i don't think that the pick he made is the right one because there's just way too many green cards in the pack. pitfall trap is the right pick in my opinion. it's a removal and it's the only powerful white spell in the pack and bladetask boar coming to a close second. hell i'll even pick harrow over the woodcrasher baloth.
sadin said he is taking the woodcrasher baloth as a signaling purpose?!? are you serious? you better hope your drafting with color blind people cause i don't think that the pick he made is the right one because there's just way too many green cards in the pack. pitfall trap is the right pick in my opinion. it's a removal and it's the only powerful white spell in the pack and bladetask boar coming to a close second. hell i'll even pick harrow over the woodcrasher baloth.



No, Steve says that signaling is a part of why he takes the Baloth. Did you skip over eveything else he said in the article? Green is very, very underdrafted. It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that Boar, Grasp, Barrage, Crab, and Pitfall get picked before another green card. Were I in this draft taking Baloth P1P1, I'd expect to see at least two of the remaining four green cards back, possibly even three. On top of that, unless my next three neighbors each opened green bombs, I wouldn't expect more than a single green player amongst them. Boar and Pitfall are simply more likely to get taken. So, there's really no problem with the signal, which was the entire point of the article. 
sadin said he is taking the woodcrasher baloth as a signaling purpose?!? are you serious? you better hope your drafting with color blind people cause i don't think that the pick he made is the right one because there's just way too many green cards in the pack. pitfall trap is the right pick in my opinion. it's a removal and it's the only powerful white spell in the pack and bladetask boar coming to a close second. hell i'll even pick harrow over the woodcrasher baloth.



No, Steve says that signaling is a part of why he takes the Baloth. Did you skip over eveything else he said in the article? Green is very, very underdrafted. It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that Boar, Grasp, Barrage, Crab, and Pitfall get picked before another green card. Were I in this draft taking Baloth P1P1, I'd expect to see at least two of the remaining four green cards back, possibly even three. On top of that, unless my next three neighbors each opened green bombs, I wouldn't expect more than a single green player amongst them. Boar and Pitfall are simply more likely to get taken. So, there's really no problem with the signal, which was the entire point of the article. 




and that is why you take the pitfall trap. it's the only white card in the pack and then you cut white hard. if you give out plenty of green cards you'll make two of your neighbors fight for green in the second pack. let's say one green card do make it back to you, past it to the person on your left and a light bulb will light up telling him green is open. that will ensure that you wont get cut off in the second pack. to me, the second pack is what makes and breaks your deck and the 3rd is the icing on the cake.
sadin said he is taking the woodcrasher baloth as a signaling purpose?!? are you serious? you better hope your drafting with color blind people cause i don't think that the pick he made is the right one because there's just way too many green cards in the pack. pitfall trap is the right pick in my opinion. it's a removal and it's the only powerful white spell in the pack and bladetask boar coming to a close second. hell i'll even pick harrow over the woodcrasher baloth.



No, Steve says that signaling is a part of why he takes the Baloth. Did you skip over eveything else he said in the article? Green is very, very underdrafted. It wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that Boar, Grasp, Barrage, Crab, and Pitfall get picked before another green card. Were I in this draft taking Baloth P1P1, I'd expect to see at least two of the remaining four green cards back, possibly even three. On top of that, unless my next three neighbors each opened green bombs, I wouldn't expect more than a single green player amongst them. Boar and Pitfall are simply more likely to get taken. So, there's really no problem with the signal, which was the entire point of the article. 




and that is why you take the pitfall trap. it's the only white card in the pack and then you cut white hard. if you give out plenty of green cards you'll make two of your neighbors fight for green in the second pack. let's say one green card do make it back to you, past it to the person on your left and a light bulb will light up telling him green is open. that will ensure that you wont get cut off in the second pack. to me, the second pack is what makes and breaks your deck and the 3rd is the icing on the cake.


But if you take a green card, why would your neighbors go into green? The next two strongest cards are Trap and Boar and people don't really like green. Since green is percieved as weak, its unlikely that any of your immediate neighbors will go into green (barring something like Gigantiform). Its seems more likely that you are going to have neighbors in white (or red if you take boar) then green.
also, it is good to note that this is the same pack LSV had (p1p1) at PT San Diego. He had a 17-0 record going into the top 8 and he first picked the wood crasher. 

actually it isn't the pack LSV opened.  it was in his draft but masaya kitayama opened it and picked the woodcrasher as well.

This was a great article because so many people assumed that you should always use your first pick for a card that's the only good card of its color.  By applying his reasoning, it makes perfect sense that the people to your left are 1st-picking cards from highly sought after colors in the chance they get passed more good stuff in them.  Green is mostly a backup color for people to switch into when they realize they're being cut. 

By proactively taking a good green card, you're setting yourself up for a high density of very playable green cards.  You just have to accept that you might not want to go into red or white as your second color. 
Glad to know that Sadin thinks the same way I did about the pack, and that the pro player made the same pick as well.

Would have liked a bit more from the article to set something else up, but that's just me being greedy since I enjoy Limited Information far more than any other article on the site. 
Excellent column btw.  There's a delicate balance between "pick the heavy color so it will wheel" and "avoid the heavy color so I won't be fighting."  And I've seen a lot of people just universally come down on one side of that.  Especially the latter.

LSV I've noticed tends to like the "will wheel" school, which I found educational.  He also takes Nissa's Chosen really really high, and I don't think he'd mind having like 6 in his deck.

(Then again Conley Woods also followed this same line of thinking at PT-SD, taking green from a heavy-green pack and looking for the wheel, and then finding to his horror that all 6 green cards were gone when it got back.)

If you're on MTGO check out the Free Events via PDCMagic and Gatherling.

Other games you should try:
DC Universe Online - action-based MMO.  Free to play.  Surprisingly well-designed combat and classes.

Planetside 2 - Free to play MMO-meets-FPS and the first shooter I've liked in ages.
Simunomics - Free-to-play economy simulation game.

For reference, in this pack the 7 remaining cards when the pack returned were:

Ior Ruin Expedition
Spreading Seas
Caravan Hurda
Mountain
Harrow
Timbermaw Larva
Oran-Rief, the Vastwood,

so passing all those green cards didn't exactly cause the rest of the table to jump into green. 

Would have liked a bit more from the article to set something else up, but that's just me being greedy since I enjoy Limited Information far more than any other article on the site. 



I agree here entirely [apart from the most enjoyable article thing, shares that spot with Mike Flores]. It felt like the diet-coke of Steve Sadin, not nearly enough.