2/26/2010 TWTW: "Not Just Jund"

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This thread is for discussion of this week's The Week That Was, which goes live Friday morning on magicthegathering.com.
SmileThe put gortzens list on the Craig Wescoe's Tricked-out White Weenie Deck list.
well,the doll is creepy,but the owner is more creepy :s
"Tricked-out White Weenie" indeed.  Any deck could be better by being Jund!
I liked the Venn diagrams to show the differences/similarities between decks.  Very nice!
yeah Craig Wescoe's Tricked-out White Weenie Deck doesn't have much in the way of white cards.
OK, I'll start off by being nice:
Well done with the venn diagrams. They're interesting, and a lot more enjoyable to look at than your good old decklists. The only way to make it better would be to have some way to link cards (maybe using javascript, but keeping the same astetic appeal)

Now, not-nice:
First off, as already mentioned, White-Weenie fail.

/ranton
As for Jund, the fact of the matter is that the deck DOES take less thought/skill to play than other decks. No matter how you want to say it, it is a very simple, extremely basic deck. Heck, look at your own pretty diagrams. The only thing that Not Just Jund is is a pro player adjusting his deck to the hate he knew was around. Its something that happens EVERY YEAR. Sure, the players are skilled, but you can't say that Jund requires skill to play just because pro-tour players are playing it. Thats like saying its hard to play basketball just because of Shaq.
Another issue I have with Jund? Look at the decklists. Sure, they may be different (by seven whole cards! wow!) but its pretty much the exact same list as it was when Alara Reborn was released. The nice part about new sets is that they are supposed to change the standard enviroment.
And yes, I don't like Jund, I feel that a deck which can be a majority of the play enviroment (which it is) and is boring to play with and against (in my opinion of course. If brain-dead is your kinda thing, enjoy) is what they call "The Bad Thing." Last time I felt like this about a deck was when Ravager was in standard, and I quit Magic entirely until Guildpact came out.
/rantoff

And I will lament about the demise of blue all I want. As long as Jund is around, blue is dead, simply because every single card in jund is a card which has to be answered by their next turn or sooner just becuase of the high quality of cards in the color. Jace helps blue, but he really shouldn't be more than $30 right now, and is only as high as he is because of the sweet dreams of control fans, like the ones I have every night as I look at turbo-fog ("Jacerator" for you new kids) and tweak my red-blue control deck Cry
Hopefully the return to Mirrodin is real, and soon, because I want control back.

(at)MrEnglish22

I agree. I don't think anyone on the forums or twitter was saying that the two players in the finals were bad players(I know I wasn't, and I was right there with everyone else whining about the Jund v. Jund finals). It's like watching two people play a counter top match in legacy. Granted, the worlds team finals was exciting, but that was because both decks canceled each other out. That is what happens in the Jund mirror. The decks cancel each other out. It comes down to slinging the same cards back and forth.
 
 The addition of land to Gortzens deck was what saved him. It was smart to do it because with the addition of the man lands from WorldWake he gets mana without giving up threats.
 
 I will say that he was very lucky against LSV. Sitting down accross from a player who was 11-0 must of been very intimidating. LSV's deck just decided to quit. One of the problems with figuring out color raitos in decks is that none of that mattrs with randomization. you want to get your odds better that randomization won't hurt you, but in the end it will. He just got badly mana screwed, and Grotzen just turned his deck into an everyman's Jund after sideboarding, putting all the removal in.

  So all in all, I don't think that the players were bad players, they were just poiloting easy-to-play, boring decks.
I would have killed, literally ended someones life, to NOT have Arrogant Bloodlord riding a giant ant... Good times:
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but where DID the other fork come from?
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Lord_Zed: I was at my friends house when this happened. He's married and his wife was an excellent baker. She had baked a homemade apple pie the night before. I was hungry, and my friend convinced me to try those low carb monster drinks. Before this day, I had never triend energy drinks before. Boy was I in for a treat. When I tried that first monster, I really enjoyed the flavor, but the taste that it left in my mouth wasn't so good. What was my solution? Drink another! before I could finish drinking that 2nd monster, I felt it already kicking in(these drinks were not very far apart, we're talking minutes here) my friend decided that it was a good idea to whip out that fresh pie his wife made the night before. I didn't know what to do, since I felt incredibly invigorated, and at the same time, freaked out by the rush I was feeling, but I was also hungry, and my friend have me an entire plate with a fork and said "help yourself." He extended his saucer to me, and I cut him a piece of the pie and handed it to him, then I looked at the pie, noticed that the pie was in an aluminum holder, and dumped the entire pie onto my plate and started eating it with 2 forks. I don't know where I found that other fork, it probably came from my friend. Anyhow, his wife wasn't happy, and I was already in magical christmas land. 2 days later, I was in my friends bed and I slept for 14 hours. His wife outlawed my from having any of her baked goods for a while(which sucked because I could just show up at there house, steal some sweets, and leave) and said I couldn't have any energy drinks at her house, unless under close watch. My friend, on the other hand, had to take me out to a steak dinner, because apparently I won a bet where I climbed a tree and didn't die.
The great land debate:
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97563441 wrote:
Zendikar had fetchlands, and Worldwake had manlands. What are the new Scars duals called?
61325265 wrote:
Explosive Peanut Lightning lands. Well, that's just what I call them.
61325265 wrote:
58232598 wrote:
i'm just trying to figure out what the point of saying this is. it's just really random.
And so the pot met the kettle.
The Venn diagram of the White Weenie comparison is off too.  Both ran 4 Stoneforge Mystics.
 
 I will say that he was very lucky against LSV. Sitting down accross from a player who was 11-0 must of been very intimidating. LSV's deck just decided to quit. One of the problems with figuring out color raitos in decks is that none of that mattrs with randomization. you want to get your odds better that randomization won't hurt you, but in the end it will. He just got badly mana screwed, and Grotzen just turned his deck into an everyman's Jund after sideboarding, putting all the removal in.



From LSV's tournament report part 1 (at strategy.channelfireball.com/featured-ar... ) (emphesis added by me)

"Boss Naya seemed to be either 50-50ish or better in almost every matchup but some specific Jund and UW lists, and that was good enough. Sadly, I played against one of those Jund lists in the Top 4 of the Pro Tour but that comes way later."

Görtzen's deck wasn't quite "everyman's Jund" after sideboarding...as one example he was pretty much the only top Jund deck to be packing 4 Deathmarks after sideboarding.  I'm curious to read Part 2 and see why exactly LSV considered the matchup he lost unfavorable, but it seems he was stuck in a situation where he was extra vulnerable to mana screw (relying on easily flammable Hierarchs instead of lands), his equipment would frequently end up dead cards without creatures to attach to, and his usual trump card (a Knight of the Reliquary that's too huge to burn) died to a one mana card that Görtzen was by design twice as likely to draw as any other Jund player in the room.